God says that God gets what God wants, so why do you claim God is wrong?

[ThePuffyBlob]

If you are a writer of a fictional novel, how can you not know or remember the names, the heights, the faces, and the personalities of the characters in the novel you wrote? Of course, you know everything about them because you are the author.

 

[Lambano]

"Does God get what he wants , you know I am not so sure."

Do we REALLY know what God wants?

 

[quietthinker]

Let me back up TS on this topic: God is the creator of all. He is the designer of everything. He knows how you think and what you will think before you think it. So how can a perfect God not know the future? How can God not know that Eve will eat the forbidden fruit? How can God not know that the serpent will enter the Garden of Eden and deceive Eve? When God knows everything, including how to cure incurable cancer—since He created those sicknesses—how can He not know how to cure them? That is impossible. I believe that death was already in the world when it was created. It was the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil that was restricted so that man could die. Genesis 3:22-24
And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever: Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken. So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life. I am also not blaming God, nor do I blame Him in my heart. I know this, but that does not mean I know everything. I had some sort of enlightenment, probably last last month, when I read the book of Job.

A Universe that is free allows its citizens the right to make poor choices if they choose. Choices have consequences; they are not made in a vacuum.
Death is alien to Life and therefore by extension alien to God.

 

[Lambano]

Do we REALLY know what God wants?

Take the 1 Peter 3:9 quote from the OP:

2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Repentance is a change of mind on the part of the one repenting. Thus, for God to get what He wants, He has of his own free will made what He wants contingent on the voluntary choice of something outside of Himself. God obviously has the power to make any and all repent - but then He wouldn't be getting what He wants.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

Isaiah 46:10
declaring the end from the beginning and from ancient times things not yet done, saying, ‘My counsel shall stand, and I will accomplish all my purpose,'

Isaiah 55:11
so shall my word be that goes out from my mouth; it shall not return to me empty, but it shall accomplish that which I purpose, and shall succeed in the thing for which I sent it.

2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance.

John 6:39
And this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day.

God desires that none will perish... but many will.
I never heard that term , "infernalist". There is fire/lava/ brimstone in volcanos and massive amounts within and under the crust of the earth. Would you deny this infernal? Volcanos produce lakes of fire too - what a coincidence. Being thrown into that lake would be a quick end for anyone.
I liken that final judgment to Gollum's final momets in the Lord of the Rings, when he falls into the lava. How long does it take to be incerinated? Seconds?
Minutes? So imagine the earth being consumed at the end of time along with all evil. That's the event, ( 2 Peter 3:10).
Now I don't think you'll accept this but here goes.
Unbelieving souls go to Hades (the underworld, but separate from Tarturus, where the demons are) and await their final judgment. The second resurrection will involve the inhabitabts of Hades and they will be thrown into the Lake of Fire, which is Hell.
Hades isn't really Hell, the final judgment, the second death. It is worse than a prisoner in jail _ on death row _ who awaits his final judgment, capital punishment. It's dark and any good or hope.
How do I know Hades isn't Hell? Because at this final Great White Throne Judgment, Death and Hades are thrown into the Lake of Fire and destroyed.( Rev. 20:14) This is the final judgment event. Death is the judgment (part 1) in Sheol and (part 2) in the Lake of Fire - where they are consumed.
Why am I referring to the Lake of Fire as Hell? Because it is the final judgmet that coincides with the destruction of the first heaven and first earth, a massive annihilating fire described in 2 Peter 3:10 The elements of the first earth and universe are burned up in a fervent heat.
So if Sheol (Hades) and the Abyss (Tarturus) are in the underworld, the lower parts of the earth and God destroys the earth ( with Hades and everyone in it, the Abyss and all demons and Satan in it); then they won't exist anymore. "Behold, I make all things new, all former things have passed away". (Rev. 21:1)
So it is not an eternal Hell (of punishment and destruction) because the word "aionios" has also a temporal meaning: ages, lifetimes, generations. And destruction means just that, :to put an end to". Therefore the translation of aionios into eternal or everlasting _ when referring to temporal things _ was misinterpreted and really means age-lasting or age-during. It's eternal meaning only applies to God and His domain, Heaven and our salvation.

So Hades is the holding place, a prison. But it is much deeper than 6 feet! The second death is ultimate destruction. There cannot be an eternal state of indestructible destructuon or imperishanle perishing. Destruction means to put an end to. As we see bodies cremated in minutes - that is what fire does. Fear God, Who can and will destroy both body and soul.

Some of the ideas about Hell came from Gehenna, The Valley of Hinnom, a deep ravine south of Jerusalem. This is where the Cannanites used to sacrifice and burn humans to Molech, a false god. Later, it became a perpetual burning dump for dead and diseased animals. Symbolically and physically, Gehenna gave the Jews a perspective of Hell. Jesus even cursed the Pharisees to the Gehenna (Matthew 23:33 YLT). So it was a shadow representation of the final Gehenna ON EARTH.
SHEOL comes from the word "shaol", which means to ask, demand or require. So Hades (and Satan) therefore is hungry and unsatisfied, asking, demanding and requiring souls. Satan's drawing power tempts souls to, "Come to Daddy!" The lost store up wrath and sin pulling them closer to their destiny. Fortunately, God has a strong drawing power of Grace to thwart Satan's and our own detrimenatl actions.

Here are some verses that refute soul sleep:
Job 10:21-22 > The land of darkness and deep shadow is not a description of a grave.
Job 11:7-8 > The depths of God are compared to the depths of Sheol - obviously deeper than 6 feet.
Job 26:5-6 > Hades also means hidden and unseen from us. The description of departed spirits " trembling under the waters" suggests under the crust of the earth's aquifers. "Abaddon has no covering". Abaddon is the angel of the Abyss, the Destroyer released during the Apocolypse (Rev. 9:11).
So we can see that Abaddon is not in a burial grave or tomb with the bones of a dead person!!!
Job 38:17 > This reveals that death is a doorway, it has gates. Jesus made a reference to the gates of Hades in (Matthew 16:18)
Deuteronomy 32:22 > *** Here a "fire is kindled" in God's anger "and burns to the lowest part of Sheol and consumes the earth with its yield and sets on fire the foundations of the mountains". ***This is a key verse that actually describes a super volcanic eruption that will take place in the end.
" Do not hold back discipline from the child, although you strike him with a rod, he will not die. You shall stike him with a rod and RESCUE his soul from SHEOL." Proverbs 24:13-14 Now obviously discpline does not save us from physical death and the grave. No, this is talking about saving the child's soul from Sheol.
Jonah 2: 1-7 > describes Jonah crying out from the "depth of Sheol". The belly of the whale was not a grave. No, Jonah died and cried out to God. "Water encompassed me to the point of death ... I descended to the roots of the mountains, the earth with its bars (gates) was around me forever, but You have brought up my life FROM THE PIT, O LORD my God."
Luke 16:23-31 > This is not a parable! Parables don't mension names of real people, like Abraham. What moral truth could be gained from describing a place that does not exist? Parables don't describe fictional, abstract territories.
2 Peter 2:4-6
Matthew11:23
Ezekiel 26:20-21 > Here again, the lower parts of the earth, " the pit" are mentioned. God says, " I will make you dwell in the lower parts of the earth ... I will bring terrors on you ..." Does that sound like sleeping in the grave?
Ezekiel 32:24 > During the Great Tribulation, inhabitants_ on the earth _ when it splits opens _ will fall into these fissures, the pit, and some will try to climb out in terror and be snared.
Psalm 140:10 " burning coals fall on them ... cast into fire into deep pits from which they cannot arise."

 

[NotTheRock]

God desires that none will perish... but many will.

Does God's plan through Jesus succeed resulting in God getting what he wants?

 

[NotTheRock]

God obviously has the power to make any and all repent - but then He wouldn't be getting what He wants.

Do you believe that Jesus is capable of persuading ALL beings to follow him? Do you believe that Jesus is capable of freeing even Satan and demons from their sinful nature?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

But God does not get all he wants.

He wants no one to perish. But God will not force you to do anything.. so many will perish

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Amen!..Sis/ Brother, we serve a wonderful God.
Look how patient he is with us.

God is also never wrong..,always have a thankful heart, always come to him with a thankful heart.

Also.

"The LORD is my strength and my shield; in him my heart trusts, and I am helped; my heart exults, and with my song I give thanks to him" (ESV). “Enter into His gates with thanksgiving and a thank offering and into His courts with praise! Be thankful and say so to Him, bless and affectionately praise His name!” (AMPC).

Psalms 145:8-9New King James Version (NKJV) The LORD is gracious and full of compassion, Slow to anger and great in mercy. The LORD is good to all, And His tender mercies are over all His works.

but not everyone will repent.

So the verse that he used to support his universalism is in error

 

[Eternally Grateful]

A Born Again will always do the will of the Father...

then they would be sinless. sorry sis, but this is in error

they may hinder his will at times..but, no matter what, Gods will, will always be done through them...

Not true

That’s what their purpose on earth is to do,,the will of the Father..through the power of the Spirit who indwells their heart..there can be no stopping Gods will.

Just my thoughts.

yes. But we do not always do what God asks. again, if we did, we would be perfect.

 

[Lambano]

Do you believe that Jesus is capable of persuading ALL beings to follow him? Do you believe that Jesus is capable of freeing even Satan and demons from their sinful nature?

Didn't work so well when He was on earth.

I don't know. What does Jesus really want?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Back on topic
Does God get what he wants , you know I am not so sure. He wanted his people to follow him, trust him, ect - did they do that , I don’t think they did.
God wanted to lead his people, but what did they want ‘ an earthly king ‘ - so he gave the people what they wanted. ……..
Sorry, I have been going through the Old Testament - all the grumbling ect, kind of sticks in my mind.
It could be said that ‘ in the end ‘ God gets what he wants , but what a battle !!!!!

Amen, Israel wandering in the wilderness is a great example.

They did nto repent. and God did not allow them to enter.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Did I actually say that God doesn’t get what he wants in the end - don’t think I did.

amen

It says God will establish his purpose.

and his purpose is whoever believes is not condemned, Whoever does not believe is condemned already..

But his will is no one will perish..

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Do you believe that Jesus is capable of persuading ALL beings to follow him?

of course. He could over rule your free will. and make you do anything,

Do you believe that Jesus is capable of freeing even Satan and demons from their sinful nature?

Same answer.

But then no one would have a relationship. we would all be robots..

 

[NotTheRock]

Do we REALLY know what God wants?

Of course. God wants all to repent and to follow his Son and to obey his commandments. And that's exactly what will happen. After all, God always what he wants.

ALL beings will declare that Jesus is Lord to God's glory, meaning, they do so voluntarily and cheerfully. God isn't like Saddam Hussein or Kim Jung-un and, at gunpoint, force people to smile, clap, cheer, and exclaim that his Son is Lord.

Philippians 2:10-11
so that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, 11 and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

You know you’re getting older when you can’t actually remember what you have written five mins before ! lol

so been there done that.

 

[NotTheRock]

Didn't work so well when He was on earth.

All part of God's plan my brother.

Thereafter the proverbial "Lake of Fire" fulfills the purification of those who failed to follow Jesus in life. One way or another, either the easy way or the hard way, everybody gets purified!

1 John 3:3
And everyone who thus hopes in him purifies himself as he is pure.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

Does God's plan through Jesus succeed resulting in God getting what he wants?

I answered that. He desires that none should perish, but many do. He grieved over the totality of the Flood's victims. Why would God grieve about anything, if all His desires were met?
No, He will grieve over the deaths of the lost, but justice must be served. Our justice system is built on moral laws, and so evil crimes must be justly punished. If a man rapes and kills women, gets caught, he must pay the price, in this life. Unless he reaches out to Jesus with godly sorrow and asks for forgiveness, punishment after death awaits him.
- the second death, which is a destruction of both body and soul.
We all are given an opportunity to choose Life or go our own way. We must believe in Christ while we still are alive to receive salvation. That is the purpose of the Good News, a Savior stands and knocks on your door. If you open it, He will come in and sup with you. If you reject Him, you are essentially keeping the door ( to your heart) closed and do not invite Him in. Therefore, you forfeit your soul! He cannot force you to love Him. He desires a relationship , but if you say no, you won't have one. It is like trying to force a woman to love you or anyone forbthat matter. You cannot do that, love must come willingly.

Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son. John 3:18
He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.” John 3:36

That is pretty straight forward.

 

[ThePuffyBlob]

A Universe that is free allows its citizens the right to make poor choices if they choose. Choices have consequences; they are not made in a vacuum.
Death is alien to Life and therefore by extension alien to God.

it is beyond my understanding what God truly wants but one thing is for sure @NotTheRock he sure gets what he wants
God is the creator of all things. He made the angels, and He knows what they think. He created the spirits, and He understands how they think. He can predict 100% because He made them. That is why we are at His mercy; we cannot be proud simply because we know something when there is so much we do not understand. If I create a machine, I know its capabilities, and I can take pride in that. I understand its weaknesses and how long it will last, so I know when it will break. I know this because I made it. How much more so with God, who created all things—the God who knows the future and sees human hearts like no one else can. By saying this, you seem to be implying that God is not perfect and that He is not almighty. God's will shall be fully accomplished in the future, and no one can prevent it. This is not merely an opinion; it is a fact.

 

[Ritajanice]

In Matthew 7:21–23, Jesus is recorded as saying: “Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.

As a Born Again, who has been chosen and predestined....to do the will of the Father..most definitely will do it, imo,

Here imo is why.

Born of Gods seed.

What that means imo is, our spirit has been birthed into Christ, now, from day one of the supernatural rebirth, the Spirit immediately starts working in our heart/ spirit, changing us / moulding us into the image of Jesus, from within our spirit, let me give you an example,imo.

The character of Christ, will start to show outwardly. In those who are Born Again, ...you will see Jesus fruit, ripening in their hearts, that fruit, is Jesus fruit, ..you will see it come to fruition, why, because that same power that raised Jesus from the dead, is deep within our heart/spirit, working away within us, our minds start to renew, our mind start to think like Jesus, we act like Jesus, we live like Jesus, ....we hate sin and no longer live in it, even though we live in our old bodies of sin.

Make no mistake, the work that the Spirit started in us, when we became Born Again, will come to completion.

As God opens and softens our heart to become more and more like Jesus, we want that also, he gets our will inline with his, I know,” NOW” I am putty in his hands, I feel giddy, deeply in love with God...I just want to please him, do his will, surrender fully to the Spirit......Me, old self, who used to be a total crackpot!!..and I mean a crackpot...is being transformed into Christ image...why , because if we come before him with a sincere heart, he will answer , he told me by divine heart revelation..

Let go of your pride/ ego, arguing of the flesh..then I will draw close to you..and he has..so my friends..God 100% get his way..for those who belong to him...who have been chosen and predestined to be conformed into his image...


He has also spoke to my heart regarding arguing...which I have spoken about many times, at last the message penetrated my heart, by divine heart revelation.

A servant should not argue in a disrespectful manner,( which I’ve done many times, past)..this is where we show Jesus fruit when we discuss...,in a Loving , kind, respectful manner....this he will teach us, if we leave self....and let his Spirit walk in place of our flesh.

Nothing wrong in debating..,let’s just keep it clean, showing the dignity and respect for others, just like Christ did, while he walked this earth....note to all of us, who are forever learning in Christ.

Let us Honour His Holy Name!...give Him all the Gory and Praise..that he is so worthy of.

Also, let us come before him with a thankful heart...

The authority to witness is from Jesus (Matthew 28:19 , 20 ). The power and boldness to witness is given as a result of the work of the Holy Spirit (Mark 16:17-20 ; Acts 1:8 ). The willingness to witness is a decision each one must make. The message to share is the simple truth that “God loves you”.



Just my thoughts/ opinion/ belief..which were on my heart to share.

◄ Ephesians 1 ►

Berean Standard Bible Par ▾ Paul’s Greeting to the Ephesians (Acts 19:8–12; Revelation 2:1–7) 1Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God, To the saints in Ephesus,a the faithful in Christ Jesus: 2Grace and peace to you from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. Spiritual Blessings (Romans 8:28–34) 3Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly realms. 4For He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world to be holy and blameless in His presence. In love 5He predestined us for adoption as His sons through Jesus Christ, according to the good pleasure of His will, 6to the praise of His glorious grace, which He has freely given us in the Beloved One. 7In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace 8that He lavished on us with all wisdom and understanding. 9And He has made known to us the mystery of His will according to His good pleasure, which He purposed in Christ 10as a plan for the fullness of time, to bring all things in heaven and on earth together in Christ. 11In Him we were also chosen as God’s own, having been predestined according to the plan of Him who works out everything by the counsel of His will, 12in order that we, who were the first to hope in Christ, would be for the praise of His glory. 13And in Him, having heard and believed the word of truth—the gospel of your salvation—you were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, 14who is the pledge of our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession, to the praise of His glory. Spiritual Wisdom (1 Corinthians 2:6–16) 15For this reason, ever since I heard about your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love for all the saints, 16I have not stopped giving thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers, 17that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you a spirit of wisdom and revelation in your knowledge of Him. 18I ask that the eyes of your heartb may be enlightened, so that you may know the hope of His calling, the riches of His glorious inheritance in the saints, 19and the surpassing greatness of His power to us who believe. These are in accordance with the working of His mighty strength, 20which He exerted in Christ when He raised Him from the dead and seated Him at His right hand in the heavenly realms, 21far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in the present age but also in the one to come. 22And God put everything under His feet and made Him head over everything for the church, 23which is His body, the fullness of Him who fills all in all.