Are you attempting to make a case for the assertion that God is probably more than three?
God is probably more than three?
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Are you attempting to make a case for the assertion that God is probably more than three?
Oh - my- don't you read?
Rom 12:5 so we, who are many, are one body in Christ, and individually members one of another.
Are you saying that God is three - Father, Son, and Spirit, and still failing to realize that believes are the body of Christ?
If indeed we are the body of Christ and Christ is the Son and one of the three, then God is far more than just three because we are the body of Christ and Christ is mighty God - or if you prefer 'Hero-God'.
The Scriptures are right, but if you don't actually listen to the Lord then you won't understand what you read, but you should. It is written so you can read it!
I’ll put you down as a proponent and advocate for “God is probably more than three” then.
The one true God doesn’t change. He (not they) has always been, and will always be, only one.
God may use the foolish things of this world, but real foolishness is not listening to Him Today!
Even a fool can realize that God is smarter than him, but those claiming to be smart become fools
Jer 50:36 “A sword against the oracle priests, and they will become fools!
A sword against her mighty men, and they will be shattered!
Listen to Jesus. His God (and mine) is only one. That will never change.
“It is impossible for human beings to become God.”
www.blueletterbible.org
Amen to that.
Can Humans Become God?
From time to time throughout our history there have been those who claim that humans are God or that humans can become God. The Mormon Church, for example,
www.blueletterbible.org
Amen to that.
Silly - Jesus Christ is the Word of God and so if you listen to God you listen to Him!!! Of have you not even read:
Mat 11:27 “All things have been handed over to Me by My Father; and no one knows the Son except the Father; nor does anyone know the Father except the Son, and anyone to whom the Son wills to reveal Him.
So because you don't listen to Him, what you miss is that He and His Father are one!! You should have read that also, but unless you listen to Him you can not understand, because understanding comes from His mouth and not your understanding!
John 16: 13-15 “But when He, the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all the truth; for He will not speak on His own initiative, but whatever He hears, He will speak; and He will disclose to you what is to come.
“He will glorify Me, for He will take of Mine and will disclose it to you.
“All things that the Father has are Mine; therefore I said that He takes of Mine and will disclose it to you.
Jn 17: 22 “The glory which You have given Me I have given to them, that they may be one, just as We are one;
Jn 17:25 “O righteous Father, although the world has not known You, yet I have known You; and these have known that You sent Me;
Prov 2:6 For the LORD gives wisdom;
From His mouth come knowledge and understanding.
Prov 3:5 Trust in the LORD with all your heart
And do not lean on your own understanding.
Do you not yet notice how I support by statements with Scriptures, and you do not?
The first words He I heard from Him were "Read Your Bible", and He still talks to me about it. If you were to talk to Him, like I have told you to do over and over and over, just like it is written over, and over, and over, that we need to listen to Him, then you would understand that the prayer in the heart of Jesus Christ, is that we might be one with Him like He is one with the Father, and that means that He listens to His Father and we are to listen to Him as our Father! Or did you not also read that all things were created through Him!
I‘ve noted your understanding of scripture and recorded you as one who believes that “God is probably more than one.” I use the same scripture that you do and those who read my posts will find ample examples of me supporting my statements with scripture.
My consistent admonition to one and to all: Listen to Jesus. As he himself says, the words that he speaks are spirit, and life, and not his own.
You don't understand what I'm saying by "God". You don't know what the "Logos" is.
There are two Biblical meanings for God, there is the proper nouns and titles like the Most High, the Father, and what the Hebrews calls a "god" or an "el", is any being for whom El was their Father, this word also became a noun denoting the entire species of elim, applicable to others of his kind, even his adopted sons who by the law of adoption, are legally called his begotten sons (Ps 82:1), and includes Jesus as the preeminant Son and thus a god, and thee Lord God among gods. Hence the "God the Word [Theos Logos]" was in the beginning with El (the one and only), while He Himself was also an el (the noun for one of seventy sons) (Jn 1:1). Its similar to how the family of "Adam" became the common term for a "man" or "mankind", it denote the human species, so Adam begat Seth by Eve, yet Seth and Eve were also called "Adams" (Genesis 5:1-3). In Genesis, the beginning, was Seth who was both with Adam and also was adam.
Lets now discuss the origins of the term, "the Word". The Old Testament tells us Creation was achieved by Elohim speaking it and it was so (Gen 1:3, 6, 9, 14, 20, 24, LXX). To first century Jews, this "speech" or "word" was itself a pre-existing entity that acts as God's agent to create the world (Psalms 33:9; 148:5; Isaiah 48:13; Judith 16:14; Joseph and Aseneth 12:3; Pseudo-Philo 60:2; Aristobulus, Fragment 4:4). The Biblical "I am" (Exodus 6:3) is translated by Jews into Aramaic as the "Word" (Targum, Neofiti 1).
To the Greek-speaking Jews of the first century, like John, this entity is translated English as the "Word" from the Greek "[Logos]" (which denotes both "speech" and "reason") and is described as a Creative being (Wisdom of Solomon 8-10; 9:1; Hellenistic Synagogal Prayers 3:1; 9:7; 14:1; 15:1; John 1:3, 10; Hebrews 11:3; 2 Peter 23; Hermas 1:3:4; 3:3:5). To Greek-speaking Jews the Logos wasn't God the Father, but it was a God distinct from God the Father (Philo of Alexandria, Questions on Genesis 2:62; Flavius Josephus, Discourse to the Greeks Concerning Hades, 6)
The Logos was God's begotten son, "neither uncreated as God, nor yet created as you." (Philo of Alexandria, Who is Heir? 206). The reason he is not considered a "created" being is because the creative process that produced him preceded the creation of the world, because he is "antecedent to all that has come into existence" (Philo of Alexandria, Allegorical Interpretations 3:175). The Logos was an intermediary entity that stood between the Patriarchs and God, "we read 'I am the God that appeared to thee' not ' in my place' but 'in the place of God [Genesis 31:13, Bethel = Place of God]' as though it were another's. What are we to say? He that is truly God is One, but those that are improperly so called are more than one" (Philo of Alexandria, On Dreams 1:228). "When he says 'I am the God who was seen of thee in the place of God [LXX, Exodus 24:10]' understand that He occupied the place of an angel only so far as he appeared without changing, with a view to profit of him who was not yet capable of seeing the true God."(Philo of Alexandria, On Dreams 1:238). Why? "For just as those who are unable to see the sun itself see the gleam of the parhelion and take it for the sun,... so some regard the image of God, his angel the Logos, as His very self" (Philo of Alexandria, On Dreams 1:239).
The Logos is a High Priest (Philo of Alexandria, On the Migration of Abraham 102) of a heavenly temple (Philo of Alexandria, On Dreams 1:218), a "priest and king" (Philo of Alexandria, On Flight, 118), a mediator, "To his Logos, his Archangel, the Father of all has given the special prerogative to stand on the boarder and separate the creature from the creator. This same Logos both pleads with the immortal as a suppliant for afflicted mortality, and acts as ambassador of the ruler to the subject" (Philo of Alexandria, Who is Heir? 205), and the "branch" (Philo of Alexandria, On the Confusion of Tongues 62).
Sound familiar? Jesus Christ is a High Priest, the mediator between God and man, the branch, the son of God, a separate God from God, made yet unmade. Hence, when John described Jesus as the Logos, its a preestablished and preloaded concept, as in the beginning, the "Word [Logos] was with God", and "the Word [Logos] was God", he means that Jesus is the Logos, the Logos was Yahweh-El, the God [Theos] of Israel, who was in the beginning with El Elyon, and El Elyon is the Father and God of Jesus, but it is hasn't established the God of Israel is God the Father. Because just like all Greek-speaking Jews like Philo and John, they are never saying God the Father was the Logos, instead it is Christ who is being called the "Word", another God with a secret name (Revelations 19:12-13), the ineffable name of YHWH. The assistance otherwise is merely the Association fallacy. Yahweh is the Lord, Jesus is the Lord, Jesus is never called the Son of the Lord, only either the Son of God or the Most High God.
You understand what I'm saying?
Yes - real believers are the body of Christ, so we are on with Jesus Christ and since He is also one with the Father - the only logical conclusion is that we are gods, like it is written and so One God means a whole lot more than 3. It means unity with God through Jesus Christ. So a theology that One God means Father, Son, and Spirit, means a lot more than three because the Son has a body made up of a great multitude!
And since Jesus Christ is our Teacher, then if we listened to Him, and that does mean via His Holy Spirit, then did we not come to understand that we are the body of Christ and that means being one with Him like He is one with the Father?
Well, maybe not all have had that conversation, and thus teaching from Him yet. Therefore the statement - The Lord your God is One God - is not yet fully understood yet. And that would explain why this thread asking "God is probably more than three?"
The question and topic for the thread is actually an excellent question and topic. But it is only understood if we keep the command to Hear from the Lord!
Mark 12:28,29 One of the scribes came and heard them arguing, and recognizing that He had answered them well, asked Him, “What commandment is the foremost of all?”
Jesus answered, “The foremost is, ‘HEAR, O ISRAEL! THE LORD OUR GOD IS ONE LORD;
So the foremost commandment is ‘HEAR, O ISRAEL! - and by keeping that commandant is how we understand the statement "THE LORD OUR GOD IS ONE LORD"
And since He teaches us with sayings and parables:
Ps 78: 1,2 Listen, O my people, to my instruction;
Incline your ears to the words of my mouth.
I will open my mouth in a parable;
I will utter dark sayings of old,
and he explains them to his disciples:
Mat 13:10,11 And the disciples came and said to Him, “Why do You speak to them in parables?”
Jesus answered them, “To you it has been granted to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been granted.
You will discover the plans of God were always to make believers to be one with our Lord Jesus Christ, and since He is one with His Father in the same way - we become one with God - so the command Hear O Israel, if followed, will make us aware that God want us all to be one!!
Eph 5:31,32 FOR THIS REASON A MAN SHALL LEAVE HIS FATHER AND MOTHER AND SHALL BE JOINED TO HIS WIFE, AND THE TWO SHALL BECOME ONE FLESH.
This mystery is great; but I am speaking with reference to Christ and the church.
So how God is one is a great mystery, even to this day! But that is only because we don't reason back and forth with Him like we should.
Is 1:2 Listen, O heavens, and hear, O earth;
For the LORD speaks,....
Is 1:3“An ox knows its owner,
And a donkey its master’s manger,
But Israel does not know,
Is 1:10 Hear the word of the LORD,
You rulers of Sodom;
Give ear to the instruction of our God,
You people of Gomorrah.
Is 1:18 “Come now, and let us reason together,”
Says the LORD,
“Though your sins are as scarlet,
They will be as white as snow;
Though they are red like crimson,
They will be like wool.
My people do not understand.”
We don't listen to Him, so we don't understand that He loves us sooooo much that He desires that we would be one with Him like He is one with His Father! He wants to makes us part of God!
God alone is God.
You remind me a little of Herbert Armstrong with his bellowing that man will become God.
This is well outside of the topic of this thread. Would you start your own thread to discuss it?
Yes, sir, y
Apologies, I'm trying to figure out how to start a new thread, I just haven't figured it out yet.
That is because you don't spend enough time actually reasoning and listening to Him, but you lean on your own understanding.
I am not at all like Herbert Armstong, who also did not spend time listening to Him. And so it was that there were both Pharisees and Sedducees - different religious groups but neither knew Him.
Christian are His sheep who hear His voice. The 'who' we are talking about is Jesus Christ. We listen to Jesus Christ, and in so doing we find out that we are listening to Him who has always been named "The Word of God". As I have numerous times pointed out to you, and I told you that my pointing it out to you would still not get you listening to Him. And that it still right.
If you were to really spend time listening to Him, Jesus Christ, you would come to know that He is called The Word of God because He is the One who has the words of God. Those words are His!! You would have also come to know that the words of God are His because His Father gave them to Him!! Indeed, His Father gave Him all things, including the words of God, but also including all things!! But you don't understand this, because you don't know Him! And you don't know Him because you don't listen to Him. And you don't listen to Him because you don't want to listen to Him, but rather you are like the people (even His people) who Moses took to the mountain of God and said, "Let not God speak to us"!! That is what you do and it seem you will continue to do that.
Now if you did speak to Him, you would come to understand that He loves us so much, and He wants to give us the words of God, just like His Father gave Him the words of God. And the power and authority of God comes through the words of God. We get the words of God, which again belong to Jesus Christ, via the Holy Spirit of God. Of course some just give that "Lip Service", but still do not spend time walking and talking with Him!
Is 29:13 Then the Lord said,
“Because this people draw near with their words
And honor Me with their lip service,
But they remove their hearts far from Me,
And their reverence for Me consists of tradition learned by rote,
So we find to this day, Today, that some tell you that you need to listen to the Holy Spirit, but they don't enter in themselves! They operate by "tradition learned by rote."
So they don't have understanding!
Now the Holy Spirit take the words of God which belong to Jesus Christ, because His Father gave them to Him, and the Holy Spirit gives them to our spirit. That is why the Word of God we preach is found in our mouths and in our hearts!!
That is also why even believers know that God is Father, Son, Spirit, because when we found God and I mean Him speaking to us, we found that the words of God came from the Father, to the Son, then to us via the Holy Spirit!
Yet there is something else that occurs to you as you keep listening. And that is that since the words of God came from the Father to the Son, and to us via the Holy Spirit, we have also come to have God in us! So we are a new creation, and one that is the body of Christ, having His words, authority, and power, in us if we indeed listen to Him and do as He asks of us.
Therefore we have become one with God in the same way Jesus is one with His Father!! And therefore if we are the body of Christ, and Christ is God and one with His Father, then we are one with God. And that is the answer to the parable that simple goes "THE LORD OUR GOD IS ONE LORD;"
Preaching "the Lord our God is One Lord", means we need to listen to Him!!
Yet there are those, without understanding, that say in there heart the God is One, and consider Him to be either dead or in a far off place called heaven, so that He has to return someday. So they again conclude that don't have to listen to Him who is always near them, and go back to leaning on their own understanding!!
And that is why Jesus explained to His disciples that He spoke to them in parables, and why He told people like Isaiah:
Is 6:9,10 He said, “Go, and tell this people:
‘Keep on listening, but do not perceive;
Keep on looking, but do not understand.’
“Render the hearts of this people insensitive,
Their ears dull,
And their eyes dim,
Otherwise they might see with their eyes,
Hear with their ears,
Understand with their hearts,
And return and be healed.”
and yet even that is in a parable or saying, like telling a little child not to do something knowing that in telling them that they might then go and do is, because they have a rebellious streak in them. And so it is this has come to you.
Even though you didn’t listen to Herbert (taking you at your word), you sound like Herbert -> Gods in the God family.
You’re suffering a delusion of grandeur which exceeds even Nicene theology. You aren’t ever going to be God.
I’m a Jewish monotheist / primitive Christian.
The above again shows how much you still can't seek the Lord and listen to Him!
You write "(taking you at your word)" but I have been telling you all long to seek our Lord Jesus Christ and listen to Him!!
Do you not yet understand what Paul meant by taking our thought captive to Jesus Christ?
2 Cor 10:5 We are destroying speculations and every lofty thing raised up against the knowledge of God, and we are taking every thought captive to the obedience of Christ,
If you don't actually seek Jesus Christ concerning every thought, you are "speculating" - and that is indeed what you have been doing!! That is to say, because you don't seek Jesus Christ you guess at what is happening based on your own understanding!
And because of that the very things you judge are according to how you will be judged. So you judge that I am "suffering a delusion of grandeur", but I take thoughts captive to Jesus Christ because I don't think I am smarter than He is. But you don't take thoughts captive because you think you are smarter than God, and so you don't seek the Word of God which is found in you. And so we still see that the Word of God to you is found in the judgements that come out of you - just like it is explained in the Scriptures - again proving Him to be right!
And as for even you judge about yourself as being "I’m a Jewish monotheist / primitive Christian." Did you not read where Jesus told the Jews:
Jn 5:18 For this reason therefore the Jews were seeking all the more to kill Him, because He not only was breaking the Sabbath, but also was calling God His own Father, making Himself equal with God.
You are indeed like them! And Paul even told the early Christians:
Gal 3:1-3 You foolish Galatians, who has bewitched you, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed as crucified?
This is the only thing I want to find out from you: did you receive the Spirit by the works of [the Law, or by hearing with faith?
Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh?
So you do not yet realize that the Word of God we are preaching is found in your mouth and in your heart!
"Jewish monotheist / primitive Christian" also did not seek Jesus Christ and the words He sends via His Holy Spirit like they should have! Of did you not read:
Heb 3: 7-11 Therefore, just as the Holy Spirit says,
“TODAY IF YOU HEAR HIS VOICE,
DO NOT HARDEN YOUR HEARTS AS WHEN THEY PROVOKED ME,
AS IN THE DAY OF TRIAL IN THE WILDERNESS,
WHERE YOUR FATHERS TRIED Me BY TESTING Me,
AND SAW MY WORKS FOR FORTY YEARS.
“THEREFORE I WAS ANGRY WITH THIS GENERATION,
AND SAID, ‘THEY ALWAYS GO ASTRAY IN THEIR HEART,
AND THEY DID NOT KNOW MY WAYS’;
AS I SWORE IN MY WRATH,
‘THEY SHALL NOT ENTER MY REST.’”
The above was written to "Jewish monotheist / primitive Christian" - so you should pay attention to it and seek our Lord Jesus Christ and what He has to say via His Holy Spirit - and do that Today!! Have we not been writing back and forth several days that were called "Today", and you still are not seeking to hear from Him, via His Holy Spirit?
Find yourself a good pastor in your area who can get through to you. As a retired Christian pastor and theology professor, I’ve done all I can to help you. You have serious issues that require more time and attention than anyone on this forum is able to provide.
Do you not even know that Jesus Christ is supposed to be our true pastor???
Jn 10:4.5“To him the doorkeeper opens, and the sheep hear his voice, and he calls his own sheep by name and leads them out.
“When he puts forth all his own, he goes ahead of them, and the sheep follow him because they know his voice.
And if a person does not practice hearing from Him, they are not even qualified to teach!!
Heb 5: 11-14 Concerning him we have much to say, and it is hard to explain, since you have become dull of hearing.
For though by this time you ought to be teachers, you have need again for someone to teach you the elementary principles of the oracles of God, and you have come to need milk and not solid food.
For everyone who partakes only of milk is not accustomed to the word of righteousness, for he is an infant.
But solid food is for the mature, who because of practice have their senses trained to discern good and evil.
And note the above was written to the Hebrews (Jews)! They should have been the teaches, but since they didn't practice using there spiritual senses, they could not hear properly with their spiritual ears. So they were dull of hearing and not qualified to teach. So they needed someone to teach them the elementary principles of the oracles of God - which is what you are getting!! First you need to start listening to the Holy Spirit of God with your spiritual ears!! And if you do that you can yourself, "Find yourself a good pastor" - but you don't listen, though I have shown this to you numerous times, using Scripture after Scripture after Scripture. Still you won't seek Him. Are you not like those Paul wrote to in Romans:
Romans 10:2-8 For I testify about them that they have a zeal for God, but not in accordance with knowledge.
For not knowing about God’s righteousness and seeking to establish their own, they did not subject themselves to the righteousness of God.
For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.
For Moses writes that the man who practices the righteousness which is based on law shall live by that righteousness.
But the righteousness based on faith speaks as follows: “DO NOT SAY IN YOUR HEART, ‘WHO WILL ASCEND INTO HEAVEN?’ (that is, to bring Christ down),
or ‘WHO WILL DESCEND INTO THE ABYSS?’ (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead).”
But what does it say? “THE WORD IS NEAR YOU, IN YOUR MOUTH AND IN YOUR HEART”—that is, the word of faith which we are preaching,
That is the problem and the issue in this discussion!
In addition to recommending that you find a good pastor in your local area, I previously recommended that you listen to Jesus. That’s all I can do for you. Whether you take those recommendations or not is up to you.
Thanks for laying out your position in support of God being more than three for our readers.
I remain fully persuaded to believe in the Messiah’s echad elohim. Everyone must decide for themselves.
Well, at least you are considering putting listening to Jesus second after seeking out men. But did you not read:
Jn 5:34 “But the testimony which I receive is not from man, but I say these things so that you may be saved.
or
Jn 5:41“I do not receive glory from men;
and Jesus, the Word of God wanted me to add the next verse, because they go together:
Jn 5:42 but I know you, that you do not have the love of God in yourselves.
Think about it - If you love God how can you put Him second?
Of did you not also read:
Mat 6:33 “But seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, and all these things shall be added to you.
You have your priorities backward!
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