Friendly Bible Study - participants must agree to Nicene Creed.
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Can I suggest that real martyrdom is appointed and what He appoints He gives grace for.
Consider these scriptures...
Matthew 2:13
Now when they had gone, behold, an angel of the Lord *appeared to Joseph in a dream and said, “Get up! Take the Child and His mother and fleeto Egypt, and remain there until I tell you; for Herod is going to search for the Child to destroy Him.”
Matthew 10:23
“But whenever they persecute you in one city, flee to the next; for truly I say to you, you will not finish going through the cities of Israel until the Son of Man comes.
Matthew 24:16
then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains.
Mark 13:14
“But when you see the abomination of desolation standing where it should not be (let the reader understand), then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains.
Luke 21:21
Then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains, and those who are in the midst of the city must leave, and those who are in the country must not enter the city;
So clearly there is a time to flee persecution, and a time stand strong in the face of it, because His Grace is on you to do so, and this honour is appointed.
Paul details his various persecutions and clearly had extraordinary empowering to sustain.
Consider these scriptures...
Matthew 2:13
Now when they had gone, behold, an angel of the Lord *appeared to Joseph in a dream and said, “Get up! Take the Child and His mother and fleeto Egypt, and remain there until I tell you; for Herod is going to search for the Child to destroy Him.”
Matthew 10:23
“But whenever they persecute you in one city, flee to the next; for truly I say to you, you will not finish going through the cities of Israel until the Son of Man comes.
Matthew 24:16
then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains.
Mark 13:14
“But when you see the abomination of desolation standing where it should not be (let the reader understand), then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains.
Luke 21:21
Then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains, and those who are in the midst of the city must leave, and those who are in the country must not enter the city;
So clearly there is a time to flee persecution, and a time stand strong in the face of it, because His Grace is on you to do so, and this honour is appointed.
Paul details his various persecutions and clearly had extraordinary empowering to sustain.
PART II
Acts 6
Just different thoughts that are coming to mind regarding Acts 6.
Seems the Greek Christians were becoming upset with the Jewish Christians.
The Greeks felt that their widows were being discriminated against in the food lines.
Widows had a difficult time back in Jesus' time and even before and after that.
Women depended on men for their financial needs and security.
Many marriages were arranged or for convenience....
this was true even to this day till recently in many countries where it was difficult for women to find work.
So, as usual, someone always has to be in charge even within a Christian community.
This should be made clear to those that believe in sinless perfection...
man will always sin.
So that problem required the 12 to call together the disciples of that community (Jerusalem) so that someone could be responsible for this task so that the 12 could continue to grow the church.
7 persons were chosen:
Stephen
Philip
Procurus
Nicanor
Timon
Parmenas
Nicolas
Important to note that the Apostles prayed over them and laid hands on them.
I'd like to note that this is still done to this day in the Catholic Church.
Both priests and Deacons are prayed over and hands laid on their head....
by the Bishop and also by Priests.
Acts 6
Just different thoughts that are coming to mind regarding Acts 6.
Seems the Greek Christians were becoming upset with the Jewish Christians.
The Greeks felt that their widows were being discriminated against in the food lines.
Widows had a difficult time back in Jesus' time and even before and after that.
Women depended on men for their financial needs and security.
Many marriages were arranged or for convenience....
this was true even to this day till recently in many countries where it was difficult for women to find work.
So, as usual, someone always has to be in charge even within a Christian community.
This should be made clear to those that believe in sinless perfection...
man will always sin.
So that problem required the 12 to call together the disciples of that community (Jerusalem) so that someone could be responsible for this task so that the 12 could continue to grow the church.
7 persons were chosen:
Stephen
Philip
Procurus
Nicanor
Timon
Parmenas
Nicolas
Important to note that the Apostles prayed over them and laid hands on them.
I'd like to note that this is still done to this day in the Catholic Church.
Both priests and Deacons are prayed over and hands laid on their head....
by the Bishop and also by Priests.
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I do agree with @marks that God gives us the strength....
always for what HE wants from us.
IF God gives us the power, we will be able to sustain even persecution..
OR, we might flee.
In such a dire situation, it will certainly depend on many factors - not least of which the strength we
have at the time.
"God does not call the equipped,
God equips the called"
(can't remember who said this).
All members of this thread must agree with the Nicene Creed to avoid the bun fights so prevalent on the forum and create a safe space to explore various issues without aggression or judgement.
Unless a member here openly states a theological position in contradiction to the creed participation is welcome.
H believes in the total eradication of the sin nature @GodsGrace "surgically removed" thus no real need for sanctification and I'm willing to bet many believe this.
I also believe we have people who are so spiritual they are no earthly good.
Then you have the "hearing voices" camp-spiritual elites.
The call for discernment to dokimazete the pneumatoi Imperative.
J.
We had 2 members on another forum that insisted they never sin.
I do believe THIS is a sin !
Maybe pride?
Anyway, I'm going to have to look up what
DOKIMAZETE THE PNEUMOATOI IMPERATIVE
means!!
Lol!!.We had 2 members on another forum that insisted they never sin.
I do believe THIS is a sin !
Maybe pride?
Anyway, I'm going to have to look up what
DOKIMAZETE THE PNEUMOATOI IMPERATIVE
means!!
Buona caccia, sorella.
J.
Google Search
www.google.com
Mary and Joseph,
Followers of Jesus were given this instruction and it was remembered and written for the Church..
Well, you gonna help me??
PNEUMO.....having to do with the lungs/air
IMPERATIVE....give an important order/command
That's the best I can do.
Well done!Well, you gonna help me??
PNEUMO.....having to do with the lungs/air
IMPERATIVE....give an important order/command
That's the best I can do.
1Jn 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
1Jn 4:1 Chaverim, do not believe every ruach. [YIRMEYAH 29:8] But test the ruchot (spirits), if they be of Hashem, because many nevi'ei sheker have gone out into the Olam Hazeh.
Man, you made me smile, I am actually laughing! Not at you.
J.
OK-but please read Miles Coverdale-right.
The instructions to "flee" given in these passages are directed to different audiences in distinct contexts, though all relate to moments of urgent danger or divine warning. Let’s break down each one-shall we @Carl Emerson?
Matthew 2:13
To whom: This was spoken directly to Joseph in a dream by an angel of the Lord.
Context: Joseph is instructed to take Mary and the infant Jesus to Egypt to escape King Herod's plan to kill the child. This directive is given for the protection of the holy family, ensuring that Jesus would not fall victim to Herod’s massacre of male infants in Bethlehem.
Matthew 10:23
To whom: This is spoken by Jesus to His disciples.
Context: In sending His disciples out on a mission, Jesus warns them of impending persecution. He tells them that when they are persecuted in one city, they should flee to the next. The instruction is part of the larger mission discourse, where Jesus advises His disciples on how to handle opposition and suffering during their ministry in Israel.
Matthew 24:16
To whom: This is directed toward those living in Judea at the time of a future apocalyptic event.
Context: In the Olivet Discourse, Jesus warns of a time of great tribulation, particularly after the appearance of the "abomination of desolation." Those in Judea are advised to flee to the mountains to avoid destruction. This prophetic warning relates to the impending destruction of Jerusalem and can be seen as a broader reference to eschatological events.
Mark 13:14
To whom: This is similar to the passage in Matthew 24, directed toward the people of Judea during a future crisis.
Context: Jesus speaks of the "abomination of desolation" and warns those in Judea to flee to the mountains. Like in Matthew, this is part of His teaching on the end times, emphasizing the urgency and suddenness of the events to come, and the need for swift action to escape the impending danger.
Luke 21:21
To whom: Again, this is directed to those in Judea during a time of great distress.
Context: This is part of Luke’s account of the same prophetic warning as in Matthew and Mark. Jesus advises those in Judea to flee to the mountains when they see Jerusalem surrounded by armies. It relates both to the destruction of Jerusalem (which happened in A.D. 70) and to eschatological events, with an emphasis on avoiding the coming judgment by escaping to safety.
Each passage contains a warning to flee in response to a specific threat:
Matthew 2:13: Joseph fleeing with Jesus and Mary from Herod's massacre.
Matthew 10:23: Jesus advising His disciples to avoid persecution by moving from city to city.
Matthew 24:16, Mark 13:14, Luke 21:21: Jesus instructing those in Judea to flee to the mountains in anticipation of destruction, particularly in reference to the "abomination of desolation" and the coming tribulation.
In short, the immediate audience for these commands is the disciples and the Jewish people in Judea, particularly in response to persecution and imminent danger. These warnings are not general instructions for all Christians in all times but are specific to the historical context of the early apostolic ministry and the impending judgment on Jerusalem.
Good heremeneutical approach to Scriptures.
No "pride" or an air of superiority.
Cheers!
J.
I worded my response carefully.
Jesus is well able to instruct His followers, by the Holy Spirit, in this age, to flee from impending danger, if the circumstances require it.
The scriptural record of Words first delivered to the followers of Jesus, is recorded for the benefit believers of all ages.
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