Friendly Bible Study - participants must agree to Nicene Creed.

[GodsGrace]

Yes, there are CHRISTIANS that don't.

According to Wickipedia anyway; "
The Filioque controversy is a religious debate between Western and Eastern Christianity over the addition of "and the Son" to a clause of the Nicene Creed, thus making the Son coequal with the Father. The Filioque was one of the causes of the split between Western and Eastern Christianity."

"Some Eastern Orthodox claim that the Catholic Church is under anathema because it added the word filioque ("and the Son") to the Nicene Creed after the declaration that the Spirit proceeds from the Father. This was illicit, they say, because the Council of Ephesus condemned anyone who composes a new creed."

But that is FYI and off topic.

Hi Hillsage,
Actually I meant that some persons that call themselves Christian don't believe in ANY creed...
just the bible. Anything outside of the bible is prohibited for them.
They're missing a lot, but that's not what this thread is about so we'll let it go at that.

 

[amadeus]

...some persons that call themselves Christian don't believe in ANY creed...
just the bible. Anything outside of the bible is prohibited for them.
They're missing a lot, but that's not what this thread is about so we'll let it go at that.

This thread should rather then be about the truth. Those with a lack of the love of the truth, as Paul says may be sent strong delusion by God that might believe a lie [II Thess 2:10-11].

In Acts 6 we see the man Stephen, perhaps the first Christian martyr. He loved the truth and spoke with "wisdom and the Spirit". As with Jesus, his opposition found men willing to lie about him in order to condemn him and stop him from speaking the truth:

Ac 6:11

Then they suborned men, which said, We have heard him speak blasphemous words against Moses, and against God.

Mt 26:59

Now the chief priests, and elders, and all the council, sought false witness against Jesus, to put him to death;

The truth is important but Pilate asked what it was. He did not know. Jesus knew and Stephen knew. What is it that we know that we are willing die for... to be unjustly persecuted for...? What is it that we love? Do we love our set of doctrines or do we love the Truth? What did Stephen love?

 

[GodsGrace]

This thread should rather then be about the truth. Those with a lack of the love of the truth, as Paul says may be sent strong delusion by God that might believe a lie [II Thess 2:10-11].

In Acts 6 we see the man Stephen, perhaps the first Christian martyr. He loved the truth and spoke with "wisdom and the Spirit". As with Jesus, his opposition found men willing to lie about him in order to condemn him and stop him from speaking the truth:

Ac 6:11

Then they suborned men, which said, We have heard him speak blasphemous words against Moses, and against God.

Mt 26:59

Now the chief priests, and elders, and all the council, sought false witness against Jesus, to put him to death;

The truth is important but Pilate asked what it was. He did not know. Jesus knew and Stephen knew. What is it that we know that we are willing die for... to be unjustly persecuted for...? What is it that we love? Do we love our set of doctrines or do we love the Truth? What did Stephen love?

You know Amadeus,
The Apostles and those just following the resurrection of Jesus were very special people in my opinion.
As were all those martyrs that went to their death because they refused to renounce their Savior and pledge allegiance to Caesar.

I don't claim to think I'd be willing to die for my faith. It's easy to say YES right now as I sit here comfortably at my desk - but if it were true? Who knows what we would do....we can't know until faced with the problem/choice/option.

However, I'll tell you this; I fight not for any doctrine or denomination. I see Protestants putting down Catholicism and V V - as you must know by now, I dislike both. We're brothers in Christ and should act accordingly.

So my faith is in a Person - the person of Jesus. He either was who He claimed to be; or we're being tricked by the biggest hoax in all of history.

The young church feared what was happening and sought to kill those that promoted it.
Stephen paid the price - just as many others did.

And we need to be thankful for all these persons and to remember that Jesus was a PERSON not a DOCTRINE.
We should all be united in HIM.

 

[amadeus]

en

You know Amadeus,
The Apostles and those just following the resurrection of Jesus were very special people in my opinion.
As were all those martyrs that went to their death because they refused to renounce their Savior and pledge allegiance to Caesar.

I don't claim to think I'd be willing to die for my faith. It's easy to say YES right now as I sit here comfortably at my desk - but if it were true? Who knows what we would do....we can't know until faced with the problem/choice/option.

However, I'll tell you this; I fight not for any doctrine or denomination. I see Protestants putting down Catholicism and V V - as you must know by now, I dislike both. We're brothers in Christ and should act accordingly.

So my faith is in a Person - the person of Jesus. He either was who He claimed to be; or we're being tricked by the biggest hoax in all of history.

The young church feared what was happening and sought to kill those that promoted it.
Stephen paid the price - just as many others did.

And we need to be thankful for all these persons and to remember that Jesus was a PERSON not a DOCTRINE.
We should all be united in HIM.

I am with you on all points sister, including not knowing for sure what course I would take if my physical life were at stake. Hopefully I would turn myself over to God and let His guide according to His will.

 

[face2face]

This thread should rather then be about the truth. Those with a lack of the love of the truth, as Paul says may be sent strong delusion by God that might believe a lie [II Thess 2:10-11].

In Acts 6 we see the man Stephen, perhaps the first Christian martyr. He loved the truth and spoke with "wisdom and the Spirit". As with Jesus, his opposition found men willing to lie about him in order to condemn him and stop him from speaking the truth:

Ac 6:11

Then they suborned men, which said, We have heard him speak blasphemous words against Moses, and against God.

Mt 26:59

Now the chief priests, and elders, and all the council, sought false witness against Jesus, to put him to death;

The truth is important but Pilate asked what it was. He did not know. Jesus knew and Stephen knew. What is it that we know that we are willing die for... to be unjustly persecuted for...? What is it that we love? Do we love our set of doctrines or do we love the Truth? What did Stephen love?

Question, are we waiting for @Carl Emerson to lead this study? I assume the word structured carries the idea of structure?
F2F

 

[amadeus]

Question, are we waiting for @Carl Emerson to lead this study? I assume the word structured carries the idea of structure?
F2F

He will be here. Let him answer your question.

 

[GodsGrace]

Question, are we waiting for @Carl Emerson to lead this study? I assume the word structured carries the idea of structure?
F2F

We ARE discussing Acts 6.
I think that if a thought comes up we could post it.
But I'm new here but I'm sure Carl Emerson sees that we're posting.

 

[Carl Emerson]

Question, are we waiting for @Carl Emerson to lead this study? I assume the word structured carries the idea of structure?
F2F

In post #535 I mentioned how we would read and reflect on Acts 6 for a week (to prepare questions, reflections, responses).

Then we can open the discussion/reflection up in about another three days.

This is a group effort - we all have a contribution to make. Different members are strong in different ways, we all learn from each other.

 

[Carl Emerson]

@Brakelite @amadeus @Azim @Pearl @Rita @Ritajanice @APAK @MA2444 @faithfulness @GTW27 @Berean @rockytopva @quietthinker @ScottA @marks @grace @Oneoff @Hillsage @VictoryinJesus @Angelina @Johann @seatts79 @GodsGrace @face2face

OK Acts 6...

The young church grows.

Division of responsibility is established - overseers are commissioned, numbers grow rapidly.

Notice the daily serving of food - this was a thriving community not a 'one day a week' meeting.

Jewish priests were being converted in number - the Judaistic religious system was under threat - something had to be done.

Remember what Gamallel said in 5:38 - "Stay away from these men" in other words, let God be the Judge of their actions.

But the Jews were unable to resist stepping into God's space as judge and a delegation was sent to oppose Stephen, a very gifted brother in His Living Word with signs following in confirmation.

So they plotted to take him down, with false accusations of blasphemy.

Hey isn't this a classic ploy of the enemy even today - it is very hard to defend yourself against lies about what you did or said.
Yet we must put matters in His hands - not be the judge.
The temptation to take the place of God as judge equally applies to the accused and the accuser, unless in the case of Stephen God Himself speaks judgement through you.

Thank God for Stephen - the first Martyr - who was not an Apostle just a normal person like you and I with God's presence and power within.

Please input with your reflections and comments.

 

[face2face]

@Carl Emerson

So what might be the charges brought against Stephen and many others in the first community of believers? –

Saul in Acts 9 is going to arrest disciples of the Lord but on what charges? There are three which are recorded for us: -

• “Proclaiming in Jesus the resurrection of the dead” (Acts 4:2, and Acts 4:17–18),
• acting and speaking in power adequate to make the Jews jealous (Acts 5:17),
• and changing of “the customs Moses handed down to us” (Acts 6:14)

Ironically and not surprising - All three were approved by God!!!....Saul was being a Benjamite fighting in ignorance against God!

Thanks Carl, enjoyed your opening thoughts
F2F

 

[face2face]

Now Stephen, full of grace and power, was performing great wonders and miraculous signs among the people Acts 6:8.

"Stephen" Meaning Crowned, from Stephanos, "a crown."

Henceforth there is laid up for me the crown (Stephanos) of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, will award to me on that day, and not only to me but also to all who have loved his appearing. 2 Timothy 4:8

Paul never forgot Stephen, and you can only imagine their first meeting, how Paul will embrace him as a brother and no doubt weep, not in regret, but for love and unity!

F2F

 

[Carl Emerson]

Now Stephen, full of grace and power, was performing great wonders and miraculous signs among the people Acts 6:8.

"Stephen" Meaning Crowned, from Stephanos, "a crown."

Henceforth there is laid up for me the crown (Stephanos) of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, will award to me on that day, and not only to me but also to all who have loved his appearing. 2 Timothy 4:8

Paul never forgot Stephen, and you can only imagine their first meeting, how Paul will embrace him as a brother and no doubt weep, not in regret, but for love and unity!

F2F

Nice contributions F2F - much appreciated.

 

[marks]

I don't claim to think I'd be willing to die for my faith. It's easy to say YES right now as I sit here comfortably at my desk - but if it were true? Who knows what we would do....we can't know until faced with the problem/choice/option.

It's true we don't know, however, God's Grace will see us through.

Are you familiar with Thomas Hawkes?

The Martyrdom of Thomas Haukes by John Fox – Grace Online Library

graceonlinelibrary.org

Much love!

 

[face2face]

OK Acts 6...

The young church grows.

Division of responsibility is established - overseers are commissioned, numbers grow rapidly.

Carl, it's interesting to consider the issues of a growing body and all the administrative demands that places on people.

More and more believers in the Lord were added to their number, crowds of both men and women Acts 5:14.

In many respects the growing in numbers was the catalyst for Chapter 6

The increased number of disciples resulted in greater difficulty in administering the work of the church, and brought about some degree of dispute between members.

Whilst it is encouraging to have large companies of brethren and sisters in association, stresses often occur in endeavoring to maintain harmony amongst them.

Now in those days, when the disciples were growing in number, a complaint arose on the part of the Greek-speaking Jews against the native Hebraic Jews, because their widows were being overlooked in the daily distribution of food Ac 6:1.

"complaint," and signifies a muttering, hidden debate. The word is also used of those who challenged the Lord Jesus, endeavouring to stir up opposition against him (Jn 7:12), and this attitude was continued into the experience of the church (Phil 2:14; 1 Pet. 4:9). The Septuagint
uses the same word to describe the murmuring of Israel in the wilderness (1 Cor 10:10).

They are called growing pains and every body of believers regardless the denomination experiences them.

Some denominations (I believe the JW's and others) create a new location to worship if their numbers exceed 100 members.

These super churches lose the "family character" of the Gospel when the community becomes so large and often results in factions
which result in disharmony within the Body.

Trouble and discontent were developing in the community here in Acts 6, arising from unbelief, pride, ambition and jealousy.

Major lessons here for this forum also.

F2F

 

[Carl Emerson]

Carl, it's interesting to consider the issues of a growing body and all the administrative demands that places on people.

More and more believers in the Lord were added to their number, crowds of both men and women Acts 5:14.

In many respects the growing in numbers was the catalyst for Chapter 6

The increased number of disciples resulted in greater difficulty in administering the work of the church, and brought about some degree of dispute between members.

Whilst it is encouraging to have large companies of brethren and sisters in association, stresses often occur in endeavoring to maintain harmony amongst them.

Now in those days, when the disciples were growing in number, a complaint arose on the part of the Greek-speaking Jews against the native Hebraic Jews, because their widows were being overlooked in the daily distribution of food Ac 6:1.

"complaint," and signifies a muttering, hidden debate. The word is also used of those who challenged the Lord Jesus, endeavouring to stir up opposition against him (Jn 7:12), and this attitude was continued into the experience of the church (Phil 2:14; 1 Pet. 4:9). The Septuagint
uses the same word to describe the murmuring of Israel in the wilderness (1 Cor 10:10).

They are called growing pains and every body of believers regardless the denomination experiences them.

Some denominations (I believe the JW's and others) create a new location to worship if their numbers exceed 100 members.

These super churches lose the "family character" of the Gospel when the community becomes so large and often results in factions
which result in disharmony within the Body.

Trouble and discontent were developing in the community here in Acts 6, arising from unbelief, pride, ambition and jealousy.

Major lessons here for this forum also.

F2F

Yes - given the Godhead in fellowship with itself, and the mandate for family from way back in Genesis, then the unity Jesus prayed about in John 17 for the family of God - it is clear that 'institution' cannot substitute for this critical inter-relational family experience that is essential to Godly relationships.

You shall have many teachers but very few Fathers. Wow... how true that is.

Our models of church need review - many are not fit for purpose.

However we notice that Revelation addresses the seven churches being seven administrations associated with seven major Cities. So it seems an apostolic umbrella kept watch over several smaller congregations that were churches in their own right. The error then seems to be trying to maintain large congregations because they essentially become administratively heavy.

The other issue is the huge budgets do not result in a proportional increase of fresh converts.

But the worst aspect of this is the advent of the 'professional Christian' complete with employment contract.

However I don't want to lose our precious bible study participants by banging on about it.

 

[quietthinker]

Our focus determines our words. Focus on anything apart from that which is critical (Jesus) and the merry path of distraction grows under the guise of piety and importance.

Words that matter are those which generate hope not rightness.

 

[marks]

Christianity, the faith that comes from the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

Christendom, the culture that comes from Christianity being promoted as a good or necessary thing, or among those who live around Christians, but do not share in the Faith.

My 2 cents . . .

Much love!

 

[Carl Emerson]

Back to Acts 6...

Further contributions appreciated.

 

[Carl Emerson]

Our focus determines our words. Focus on anything apart from that which is critical (Jesus) and the merry path of distraction grows under the guise of piety and importance.

Words that matter are those which generate hope not rightness.

Sounds like the difference between Love and Law ???

 

[face2face]

It's possible the Hellenist Jews thought themselves more superior due to the higher education than the Hebrew speaking Jews.

The conflict is seen in those Jews who clung tenaciously to the use of Hebrew, and who opposed the impress of modern culture. The apostle Paul later identified with the Hebrew brethren - 2 Cor 11:22; Phil. 3:5; Acts 21:40.

Josephus indicates that the opposition of Hebrews to the Grecian Jews was bitter, and expressed itself in the language of the Talmud which
records: "Cursed be he who teaches his son the learning of the Greeks."

Be interested to find a modern example of this conflict?

Possibly some of the science debates which have raged in recent decades have been very divisive?

Orthodox v. Evangelical

F2F