Freed : From Calvinism and HyperCalvinism )Tulip<>5 Pont.

[IronMaiden]

That is not how Gods word says that we are Born Of The Spirit.

Therefore I rebuke your words, as they have no standing in Gods word.

Do not add your own words to the written word!

I didn’t.

 

[Ritajanice]

I didn’t.

Yes you did, what you say below is not biblical.

@LatterRain said.

Yes, I am. All Christians are born of the Holy Spirit.

 

[IronMaiden]

Yes you did, what you say below is not biblical.

@LatterRain said.

Yes, I am. All Christians are born of the Holy Spirit.

Sure it is.

 

[Ritajanice]

Sure it is.

Sure it is what?

That all Christians are Born Of The Holy Spirit.scripture please?

Saying,All Christians are Born Of The Holy Spirit?

 

[Behold]

Reader,

Let me show you just how Satanic Calvinism (TULIP)... actually is... when you simplify it.

Now, here is How Calvinism is describing JESUS.

Notice.

"Lord, will you save me, please forgive my sins".. is How Paul describes....>>>"ALL who call on the name of Jesus, shall be saved"..


Calvinism then says that Jesus responds.. to the the "ALL who call".... (some of them)...

= "NO !!!!!..NEVER !!!!... you are not Chosen to believe in me. !!!!!! "GET AWAY" !!!!!!!!!!

See that?
That is "TULIP".........a "doctrine of Devil's" and people who believe it are deceived and when they teach it they are doing the devil's work.

 

[JohnDB]

Reader,

Lets look deeper now., into this "Doctrine of Devils" that started with Calvin, and was evolved into Hyper-Calvinism (TULIP) "the 5 points".

A "TULIP"> a hyper calvinist, a "5-point">.. is one who believes in Calvinism = extremism .

So, both the Calvinist and the Hyper, have been led to believe that Paul the Apostle is a Calvinist. a 5 Point Hyper Calvinist.
And that is what they TEACH and BELIEVE.

So, lets look at that, and then i'll show you one more, in the next post..

First, lets understand why a person goes to hell and not to heaven..
Its simply because they "died in their sin, never forgiven", and were never born again. So, they died separated from God, by their Sin..
So, that situation, does not allow you to go to Heaven, because you were not forgiven all your sin.... born 'In Christ" as "one with God", before you died.
This is why Jesus told us.....>"YOU, MUST, be born again", and if you are not you are not a Son/Daughter of God when you died, and so your eternity is spent, where those who are not born again Sons/Daughters of God, end up... and that is not in Heaven......
There is only one other option. : HELL.

Now, Calvin and the Hyper-Calvinist, teach that Paul is a 5-point Hyper Calvinist, as they teach that a few verses that Paul wrote, that they SEE as meaning what Calvin teaches and others who evolved Calvins theology in Hyper-Calvinism.., proves that Paul is a Calvinist, and a Hyper Calvinist.
They believe that a few of Paul's verses teach the 5-points of Hyper- Calvinism as well as Calvinism.

So, listen now.... as you have to see this... in your understanding.

If Paul is a Calvinist, then Jesus is a Calvinist....... as Paul RECEIVED all His Theology "not from any man, but from the LORD", Himself.
So, If Paul is a Calvinist, then Jesus is a Calvinist., according to Calvinism and Hyper Calvinism that is "the 5 Points"..(TULIP).

Therefore, if Paul and The Lord Jesus The Christ are both Calvinists, then they will understand "pre-destined" to believe."
They will understand "pre-chosen" to believe"
They will understand "God causes you to believe or you can't".
And they will teach that always.

Now, lets look at some Verses..

1.) "their remainth no more sacrifice for your sin" because you have "willfully sinned", the sin of UNBELIEF... "just as your Father's did".

So, those verses are Hebrews 6 & 10.. .and this one..

“'"You stiff-necked people! Your hearts and ears are still uncircumcised. You are just like your ancestors: You ALWAYS RESIST the HOLY Spirit.!""""

So, Hyper Calvinism, teaches that this isn't possible, as you have no free will..
Yet if the Forum member can read, you Just read PAUL tell Christ rejectors, that "THEY...ALWAYS resist the Holy Spirit."
This means that Paul is one confused Calvinist, Hyper Calvinist, or that Calvinism and the "5-points" (TULIP) is a "doctrine of Devils"., as Paul just blamed them for their "resisting the Holy Spirit" that the '5-points" of Hyper Calvinism, says isn't possible.

Now when you read that "you always RESIST THE HOLY SPIRIT", then that is "you are resisting the Truth, that is the Gospel being revealed to you".., and that is also Hebrews 10".. ."If you willfully sin"...(will not believe in Jesus, willfully) there remainth no more JESUS FOR YOU... "there remaineth no more SACRIFICE for your SIN." because of your Willful decision to reject the Sacrifice who is JESUS ON THE CROSS.

So, then If Paul is the "5-point" Hyper Calvinist, who teaches that "you can't choose Christ unless you are caused to believe by the HS"............. then Paul just lied when He taught us that = THEY Resisted the Holy Spirit = Willfully........as does every Christ Rejector.

Notice that Paul didnt say..>>"well, dont worry about it, because you were just not chosen to believe".

Look now at Acts 28:28... as this is actually Hebrews 10... in the Book of the "ACTS of the Apostles."
Paul said to UNBELIEVING JEWS........>>"I will take the Gospel to the Gentiles, and they will Believe it".
So, if these JEWS were "pre-chosen" to not be the "5-Point, Hyper-Calvin" "chosen to believe" .. then you notice that Paul didnt say... "no worries, you can't believe because you are not of the chosen to believe"..

Reader, why did Paul forget all his Hyper-Calvinism, and "TULIP"< "5-points" in these Verses?

A.) Its because Paul is not a Calvinst.. Paul is not a "5-Point " TULIP... = Deceiver.

This is not an original theology system.
It is detailed in John's Gospel over the story of "The Man Born Blind" and explained thoroughly. The question "Who Sinned to cause this man to be born blind" is no different from the same questions and subsequent declarations made by Calvinists.

 

[Ritajanice]

Only God can bring us to repentance and forgive us our sins, like his word says a sinner wouldn’t know how,

No one can come to the Son unless the Father draws them and none can say that Jesus is Lord accept by the Holy Spirit.

 

[Behold]

"Who Sinned to cause this man to be born blind"

But Jesus is simply explaining that He is doing the work that He sees the Father doing, because 'I and my Father, are ONE".

Listen, Jesus healed because He can.... but nearly always in the NT, He healed based on someone's Faith.

Did you ever read....>>"Yes you were predestined to have faith in me, so that i could heal your little girl".

"I was predestined to cast out your demon".

"I was predestined to raise Lazarus from the dead"......or i could not have done it"""

Jesus said... "so be it done to you, according to YOUR faith".....>>He never said.. "and if you are pre-destined to have faith, then that is why you believed".... = as LYING Calvinism (TULIP) teaches.

 

[JohnDB]

But Jesus is simply explaining that He is doing the work that He sees the Father doing, because 'I and my Father, are ONE".

Listen, Jesus healed because He can.... but nearly always in the NT, He healed based on someone's Faith.

Did you ever read....>>"Yes you were predestined to have faith in me, so that i could heal your little girl".

"I was predestined to cast out your demon".

"I was predestined to raise Lazarus from the dead"......or i could not have done it"""

Jesus said... "so be it done to you, according to YOUR faith".....>>He never said.. "and if you are pre-destined to have faith, then that is why you believed".... = as LYING Calvinism (TULIP) teaches.

You need to reread the story I just explained that erases Calvinism.

 

[Behold]

You need to reread the story I just explained that erases Calvinism.

John 3:16 erases Calvinism (TULIP)

This erases it, also.

New International Version
yet you refuse to come to me to have life.

New Living Translation
Yet you refuse to come to me to receive this life.

English Standard Version
yet you refuse to come to me that you may have life.

Berean Standard Bible
yet you refuse to come to Me to have life.

Berean Literal Bible
and you are not willing to come to Me, that you may have life.

King James Bible
And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

New King James Version
But you are not willing to come to Me that you may have life.

New American Standard Bible
and yet you are unwilling to come to Me so that you may have life.

NASB 1995
and you are unwilling to come to Me so that you may have life.

 

[JohnDB]

John 3:16 erases Calvinism (TULIP)

This erases it, also.

New International Version
yet you refuse to come to me to have life.

New Living Translation
Yet you refuse to come to me to receive this life.

English Standard Version
yet you refuse to come to me that you may have life.

Berean Standard Bible
yet you refuse to come to Me to have life.

Berean Literal Bible
and you are not willing to come to Me, that you may have life.

King James Bible
And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

New King James Version
But you are not willing to come to Me that you may have life.

New American Standard Bible
and yet you are unwilling to come to Me so that you may have life.

NASB 1995
and you are unwilling to come to Me so that you may have life.

Quit pontificating and just read it.

 

[Behold]

Quit pontificating and just read it.

Ive read it.

So, You are connecting dots that YOU see.,............. as those Jews were teaching that the person was "predestined to get sick because of their Parents sin.. or because of their own sin".. because they were simply not understanding that sometimes, its the devil who makes you sick, or its just a result of the curse of the Fall.

So, those JEWs, were looking at it like this.... "it all happens because its a generational curse".. and Jesus is saying.....>"No, not in this case, and that is Jesus explaining that His work is freely given., based on mercy or it can be that He did it for a sign to the Jew.

Now, if we look it from God's perspective, then yes, God knew that Jesus was going to do that... as God's Foreknowledge knows everything that happens before it happens.... next.

And CALVIN< took that and falsely changed it into.."its all predestined", its all "caused by God"... so, that is the heresy.

And the deeper a person falls victim to "hyper calvinism" the more they will see everything in the bible as "pre-destined"., as that is what Calvinism continues to do as a MIND ROT... regarding Theology.

 

[GodsGrace]

Quit pontificating and just read it.

Sorry John,,,
I also don't really understand what you're saying about the man born blind.
The other member is not pontificating.....
he's pointing out how Calvinism is wrong...
as wrong can be.

I've tried posting straight verses that CLEARLY state something.....
Calvinists WILL NOT understand the verse the way every other Christian does.

So I don't see any pontificating going on here....
I see attempts at making clear verses that DO NOT affirm calvinist ideas be made into simple ideas so that ANYONE could understand that verses do not mean what some THINK they mean.

So....could you clarify for me what you mean about the The Man Born Blind??

 

[JohnDB]

Sorry John,,,
I also don't really understand what you're saying about the man born blind.
The other member is not pontificating.....
he's pointing out how Calvinism is wrong...
as wrong can be.

I've tried posting straight verses that CLEARLY state something.....
Calvinists WILL NOT understand the verse the way every other Christian does.

So I don't see any pontificating going on here....
I see attempts at making clear verses that DO NOT affirm calvinist ideas be made into simple ideas so that ANYONE could understand that verses do not mean what some THINK they mean.

So....could you clarify for me what you mean about the The Man Born Blind??

One of the few things Calvinists get correct is their view of God's Sovereignty. Perfectly in control at all times over everything. Man was born blind so God's Glory could be revealed....not just Jesus's authority, power, access to His Father or the Holy Spirit or that He could do whatever He wished.
But His Glory....which is not what has been discussed.

So....
In order to understand the answer Jesus gave an in depth discussion needs to be had about "The Glory of God" and what Jesus meant when He said that. (Originalist viewpoint necessary)

Edited to add:
The correct answer using an incorrect methodology is not going to work. It only creates other more egregious errors later in other theologies.

 

[Behold]

One of the few things Calvinists get correct is their view of God's Sovereignty. Perfectly in control at all times over everything.

What you posted is the LIE of Calvinism..

God does execute complete Sovereign Control, over all things at all times., as If He did, then ADAM would not have eaten the Apple., and You would have have become a sinner.

So, regarding MAN.. Humans......God does not control your FREE WILL....>>He allows it... and this is where Calvinism denies God, and Truth.

Hyper-Calvinism, teaches that you are a Robot-Puppet... manifesting God's "Sovereign" will as :

HITLER Killing 6 Million

ADAM causing the fall of us ALL

ISLAM wanting everyone to become a Muslim.


So, none of that is Pre-destined by GOD.... but it is God allowing MAN to choose what they will do next and what they will BELIEVE.

 

[Ritajanice]

What you posted is the LIE of Calvinism..

God does execute complete Sovereign Control, over all things at all times., as If He did, then ADAM would not have eaten the Apple., and You would have have become a sinner.

So, regarding MAN.. Humans......God does not control your FREE WILL....>>He allows it... and this is where Calvinism denies God, and Truth.

I wonder if you know the meaning of blind?

In what way are we blind ....how can we see!

Are non believers blind?.....

Blind from what?

 

[Ritajanice]

God does not control your FREE WILL

What freewill have you got, if you are Born Again?

Your in Gods will so how can your will be free?...makes no sense.imo.

 

[Behold]

I wonder if you know the meaning of blind?

Which type of blindnes?

Physical?
Spiritual?
Willful. ??

There is physical blindness...

There is Spiritual Blindness, that causes a person to not be able to see Jesus as REAL, and then there is a "bewitching" that happens to everyone who is in a Cult Theology.
Like.....
Calvinism, or Mormonism.. or JW....

See those?
Everyone who is in them, will scream till they are unconscious that ITs ALL TRUE., as that is what Satan's "mind blindness" causes...
And Paul teaches that this is to become "BEWITCHED" by a "man's Teaching..

Then there is WILLFUL... and Regarding Christ... a person can "willfully refuse to believe", even when they KNOW its true.

That is ... Hebrews 10.. and that is.. Jesus saying that "you REFUSE to come to me, so that you can have eternal life".

 

[Ritajanice]

Which type of blindnes?

Physical?
Spiritual?
Willful. ??

There is physical blindness...

Physical blindness?..what’s that?..it’s ok I understand physical , The penny has just dropped.

There is Spiritual Blindness, that causes a person to not be able to see Jesus as REAL, and then there is a

And tell me how you see Jesus?...what and who removes something?...removes it from our?

"bewitching" that happens to everyone who is in a Cult Theology.
Like.....
Calvinism, or Mormonism.. or JW....

See those?
Everyone who is in them, will scream till they are unconscious that ITs ALL TRUE., as that is what Satan's "mind blindness" causes...
And Paul teaches that this is to become "BEWITCHED" by a "man's Teaching..

Bewitched can’t happen to a Born Again, who was chosen by God to become Born Again, his power keeps us, were under the protection of the Spirit...we are Gods spirit children.

Then there is WILLFUL... and Regarding Christ... a person can "willfully refuse to believe", even when they KNOW its true.

Disagree, you cannot willfully refuse to believe once you have been Born Of The Spirit....spiritually impossible.

That is ... Hebrews 10.. and that is.. Jesus saying that "you REFUSE to come to me, so that you can have eternal life".

You can’t refuse to be Born Of The Spirit...

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Well, actually RN...Romans chapter 9 IS ABOUT GENTILES and about how they're going to be grafted in.

That actually is romans 11. Romans 9 majors on God being the potter and having power over the clay to make on honorable and one dishonorable

BUT

I gave my review of practically everything in Romans 9

Now YOU give yours....


And, please, this is not about grammar.

Study up on Romans 9:13 about Esau and Jacob.....

I DARE YOU TO.....

You could start here.....not a site I like, but, EVEN THEY understand that Romans 9 is about corporate salvation....
and is not about INDIVIDUAL SALVATION.....

Well that is all you gave, you review about what you think it says which is in contrast to what is actually written.

If youi wish to have a war of quotes from "authorities", I can quote a list as well. Proves nothing other than yoiu believe those you cite.

But let us look at Romans 9 and the grammar as well. You cannot toss grammar just because it doesn't defend your position.

8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

9 For this is the word of promise, At this time will I come, and Sarah shall have a son.

10 And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac;

11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;)

12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.

13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

A) You have to ignore context to make thiis evenly remote resemble Israel and "corporate salvation" (whatever that means)
It is all about Abvraham, Isaac and Jacob and Rebekkah bearing Jacob and Esau.

B) Your authorities should learn Jewish euphemisms. When Jews talking about loving one and hating the other, they are speaking of preffering one over another for whatever reason . Even today Jews tend to do this kind of euphemism. they will go to a store, look at 2 articles of clotrhing and say they love one and hate the other. It simply means they prefer one over the other and not actually hate the not chosen.

14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.

15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.

16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.

17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.

18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.

19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?

20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?

21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:

23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,

24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

Verse 14 is the hypthetical rhetorical question. If God prefers one over another is He inrighteous?-- Of course not!

Paul in verses 15-23 then goes on to show that God does what He does.

verse 21- god has the right to make honorable and dishonorable lumps.

verse 22: look up the verb fitted here and see that it is god who fits people for destruction.

verse 23 God ahead of time prepared people for glory (see also Ephesians 1:4 4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

He chose people not a character. He chose people to become holy.

then verse 24. Paul declares that all this is for jews as well as Gentiles.