For Those Who Deny Jesus Christ IS Almighty God

[heartwashed]

you just confirmed he was begotten before time...

Yes; however my point is that He was begotten also in the incarnation; which was an event in time.

 

[True Faith]

In what manner do you see God lying anywhere in what He says in holy scripture?

Wow... I can see you are not reading comments either...

are you following the conversation or just jumping into the middle of one without knowing what was said???

 

[True Faith]

Yes; however my point is that He was begotten also in the incarnation; which was an event in time.

Which would you like to discuss the Trinitarian doctrine that calls God Himself a liar or the pre-existence of Jesus ???

 

[heartwashed]

Wow... I can see you are not reading comments either...

are you following the conversation or just jumping into the middle of one without knowing what was said???

Sorry, call me lazy if you wish, I did not read this conversation from the OP forward.

I simply responded to whatever post I first responded to.

In what way do you see God lying?

Which would you like to discuss the Trinitarian doctrine that calls God Himself a liar or the pre-existence of Jesus ???

Of course Jesus is pre-existent.

When He ascended, He ascended to be outside of time. So, He exists, as the 2nd Person of the Trinity, before He was born.

His origin, however, as the 2nd Person of the Trinity, is in the incarnation.

Before He was incarnated, Jesus was the Father (Isaiah 9:6; John 4:23-24, John 14:7-11).

The Father is a Spirit (John 4:23-24) who inhabits eternity (Isaiah 57:15).

Jesus, being God, is the same Spirit (John 4:24, Ephesians 4:4) come in human flesh (1 John 4:1-3, 2 John 1:7).

 

[True Faith]

Now that we have that straight... As the second person of the Trinity, God the Son or God Himself, whose will did God Himself come down from heaven to do, if not his own???

Either way you look at it if you claim John 1:1,14 then you claim that Jesus is God Himself..

 

[heartwashed]

Now that we have that straight... As the second person of the Trinity, God the Son or God Himself, whose will did God Himself come down from heaven to do, if not his own???

Either way you look at it if you claim John 1:1,14 then you claim that Jesus is God Himself..

I still don't understand how anything in your question implies that God was lying in any way.

 

[True Faith]

I still don't understand how anything in your question implies that God was lying in any way.

"For I have come down from heaven not to do mine own will but the will of him that sent me."

That help???

 

[dhh712]

He said all this so that you would be required to dig deeper, and not swallow all the rubbish that is recently inundating Christian forums.

Let's take Luke 18:19. What was Christ really saying? He was telling this man that if indeed He is good (perfect), then in fact He is God. And that is why He could forgive sins on earth. The unbelieving Jews knew that only God can forgive sins, yet here was this Man who not only forgave sins but healed miraculously. So what should have been the correct attitude of these people (including the Rich Young Ruler)? They all should have done what some did when they fell at the feet of Christ and worshipped Him. Indeed what the wise men did when they traveled hundreds of miles with gifts for the King of the Jews, and then worshiped Him. Also what Thomas did when he saw the Risen Lord. He exclaimed (and proclaimed) "My Lord and my God!"

When Christ came to earth in humility and deep humiliation, He voluntarily submitted His will to God the Father (who is the "Head" or authority over Christ). Thus "My Father is greater than I". At the same time He told Philip "If you have seen me you have seen the Father". He went on to say that He was in the Father, and the Father was in Him, and that they were in fact "One". And God the Father called Jesus "God" long before He came to earth. Thus we have this in Psalm 45:6,7 (cf Heb 1:8,9) where the Father addresses the Son: Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: the sceptre of thy kingdom is a right sceptre. Thou lovest righteousness, and hatest wickedness: therefore God, thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.

Then we have Psalm 102:25-27, where God the Father calls God the Son, the Creator, and this also quoted in Hebrews 1:10-12 which adds "And thou Lord" to this: Of old hast thou laid the foundation of the earth: and the heavens are the work of thy hands. They shall perish, but thou shalt endure: yea, all of them shall wax old like a garment; as a vesture shalt thou change them, and they shall be changed: But thou art the same, and thy years shall have no end.

That Jesus is the Creator is not only mentioned here, but in John 1:1-3, and several other passages.

It's quite clear throughout Scripture that Jesus is God the Son, a different person from God the Father but still God incarnate in human flesh. A most recent response I received was "how can God die". Such is leaning upon one's own understanding and not trusting God's infallible word.

I admire your and the OP's persistence in providing evidence against such heretical beliefs. It just about wears me out however and I prefer engaging in fellowship which is edifying to my brothers and sisters in Jesus, my Lord and my God.

 

[True Faith]

It's quite clear throughout Scripture that Jesus is God the Son, a different person from God the Father but still God incarnate in human flesh. A most recent response I received was "how can God die". Such is leaning upon one's own understanding and not trusting God's infallible word.

I admire your and the OP's persistence in providing evidence against such heretical beliefs. It just about wears me out however and I prefer engaging in fellowship which is edifying to my brothers and sisters in Jesus, my Lord and my God.

Whose will did God Himself come down from heaven to do, if not his own???

So now tell me how Jesus, God Himself, would ever lie...

Sorry but there is no Trinity in scripture...

 

[dhh712]

There are those also, who teach that Jesus Christ is 1/3 of Almighty God, or otherwise a 2nd God.

These also deny that Jesus Christ is Almighty God.

They deny the following:

Col 2:8, Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
Col 2:9, For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

Plain as day. But they will continue to ignore these and other verses, clinging to those that are less clear or point to Jesus' human nature (Only the Father knows the day of judgment). God's word is it's own interpreter; you use the more clear verses to interpret those that are more difficult to understand. Yet these heretics want to use their own understanding to interpret God's word.

 

[heartwashed]

"For I have come down from heaven not to do mine own will but the will of him that sent me."

That help???

Jesus is distinct from the Father in that He is come in human flesh.

 

[True Faith]

But he is not distinct from God is he???

Jesus is distinct from the Father in that He is come in human flesh.

 

[heartwashed]

But he is not distinct from God is he???

I think that you are entertaining a foolish question.

2Ti 2:23, But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes.

Tit 3:9, But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain.

 

[True Faith]

I think that you are entertaining a foolish question.

2Ti 2:23, But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes.

Tit 3:9, But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain.

Nope... Either Jesus is God himself or he wasn't...

 

[heartwashed]

Nope... Either Jesus is God himself or he wasn't...

He is the same Spirit as the Father...

distinct from the Father in that He is come in human flesh.

Being in the flesh, His will is affected by the flesh;

So, it is a different will than what His will is in that He dwells in eternity as a Spirit without flesh.

 

[Grailhunter]

If Jesus is God why did he say-
"I am going to the Father, for my Father is greater than I" (John 14:28 )
“Why do you call me good?..No one is good except God alone" (Luke 18:19)
"Only God knows when Judgment Day will be, I don't know myself" (Mark 13:32)

And you can throw these in there too.

And about the ninth hour Jesus cried out with a loud voice, saying, “ELI, ELI, LEMA SABAKTANEI?” that is, “MY GOD, MY GOD, WHY HAVE YOU FORSAKEN ME?” Matthew 27:46

Jesus said to her, “Stop clinging to Me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father; but go to My brethren and say to them, ‘I ascend to My Father and your Father, and My God and your God.’” John 20:17

 

[Enoch111]

Whose will did God Himself come down from heaven to do, if not his own???

The one with "true faith" would say that the only begotten Son -- the Lord Jesus Christ -- came to this earth to do the Father's will. So where is your "true faith"?

 

[Enoch111]

And you can throw these in there too.

But if your are blind to what these verses mean it won't do you a bit of good.

 

[True Faith]

The one with "true faith" would say that the only begotten Son -- the Lord Jesus Christ -- came to this earth to do the Father's will. So where is your "true faith"?

I never said he didn't.... Now did I???

I just know that Jesus is not God Himself...

You should read my posts more carefully...

 

[Grailhunter]

But if your are blind to what these verses mean it won't do you a bit of good.

From Christ's own mouth and they say what they say and mean what they mean.

Along with...My Father is greater than I.