For free will believers out there

[Wrangler]

6 The Eternal, Commander of heavenly armies,
King of Israel, who paid their ransom, has this to say:

Eternal One: I am at the beginning and will be at the end.
There is no God except for Me
Isaiah 44:6 (Voice)

Nathanael: 49 Teacher, You are the One—God’s own Son and Israel’s King.
John 1:49 (Voice)

One of the things I like about the VOICE is that it makes explicit who is talking. Isaiah 44:6 is really all you need to grasp that there is no trinitarian God. John 1:49 clearly differentiates between this one God and his son. Regarding Revelation and the intro to John so many attempt to rely on; as I've said there are 2 beginnings. This vid should make it crystal clear.

 

[Cooper]

Why Isaiah 7:14 Is Not A Prophecy of Jesus’ Virgin Birth

Good luck to the Jews with their mortal god. I prefer to believe as do others, that Isaiah’s prophesy had both a near fulfillment and a far fulfillment.

As Wolf commented, “The name ‘Immanuel’ was a rebuke to Ahaz, for if ‘God is with us,’ then why should he have feared the enemy?” As we know, Immanuel means “God with us” and the fact this person is not God, is in truth an insult to the Almighty, showing just how far away the people were from the true God when they call a mortal man Immanuel.

Two chapters later Isaiah writes about the true God in the far fulfilment when he writes, "For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace." (Isaiah 9:6)

Blatantly obvious is the difference between the two Immanuels. One is the God of peace and is eternal, while the god worshipped by the Jews is the god of war, death and destruction otherwise known as Satan.
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[Cooper]

6 The Eternal, Commander of heavenly armies,
King of Israel, who paid their ransom, has this to say:

Eternal One: I am at the beginning and will be at the end.
There is no God except for Me
Isaiah 44:6 (Voice)

Nathanael: 49 Teacher, You are the One—God’s own Son and Israel’s King.
John 1:49 (Voice)

One of the things I like about the VOICE is that it makes explicit who is talking. Isaiah 44:6 is really all you need to grasp that there is no trinitarian God. John 1:49 clearly differentiates between this one God and his son. Regarding Revelation and the intro to John so many attempt to rely on; as I've said there are 2 beginnings. This vid should make it crystal clear.

Yahweh is the god of the Jews. The god of one nation. Jesus is the Saviour of the whole world.
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[Tong2020]

6 The Eternal, Commander of heavenly armies,
King of Israel, who paid their ransom, has this to say:

Eternal One: I am at the beginning and will be at the end.
There is no God except for Me
Isaiah 44:6 (Voice)

Nathanael: 49 Teacher, You are the One—God’s own Son and Israel’s King.
John 1:49 (Voice)

One of the things I like about the VOICE is that it makes explicit who is talking. Isaiah 44:6 is really all you need to grasp that there is no trinitarian God. John 1:49 clearly differentiates between this one God and his son. Regarding Revelation and the intro to John so many attempt to rely on; as I've said there are 2 beginnings. This vid should make it crystal clear.

And in Isaiah 44, who is the one saying is King of Israel. In John 1, while it is Nathaniel who said that Jesus is the Son of God, the King of Israel, Jesus did not, in the least bit, in any way, shape, of form, denied that nor refute Nathaniel. To the contrary His response to what Nathaniel said, affirms it.

It’s any one’s right to choose what translation he prefers to read. I too prefer to read the easily understood versions. But I do due diligence to check out on the Greek texts that was translated to have a better view of what is being said.

Having said that, be it in the rendering of the VOICE version, it says the same truth, that Jesus is the King of Israel, and that the King of Israel is YHVH (Yahweh/Jehovah).

<<<Regarding Revelation and the intro to John so many attempt to rely on; as I've said there are 2 beginnings. This vid should make it crystal clear.>>>

What is clear in scriptures is that Jesus declared that He is the first and the last as did YHVH (Yahweh/Jehovah) declared Himself to be. That YHVH is the King of Israel and that Jesus is the King of Israel.

Regarding what’s said in the vid you provided, let me here address the logical fallacy charge portion.

He shows the alleged fallacy, by saying:

Yahweh is called the King of Israel.
David is called the King of Israel.
Therefore, David is Yahweh.

By that, he was trying to show that it is equally a fallacy when one say:

Yahweh is called the King of Israel.
Jesus is called the King of Israel.
Therefore, Jesus is Yahweh.

However, if one considers the scriptures I provided, what they say is more than being called the King of Israel, of Israel whose king was David at one time. What they say is:

Yahweh is the King of Israel.
Jesus is the King of Israel.

Now, being called the King of Israel is not the same as being the King of Israel.

When Nathaniel said of Jesus, that He is the Son of God, the King of Israel, surely he was referring to the promised Messiah who is to come. Nathaniel knew who the Messiah is, that he is the King of Israel, according to scriptures. The King of Israel, not for a time and then no more, but forever.

Now, who is the Israel that Yahweh is the King of? Is it a kingdom of this world or a kingdom that is not of this world? Of course, it refers to a Kingdom that is not of this world. For in this world, those who were kings of Israel were but men. Men who dies and after, are replaced by other men to be kings. But the scriptures (Isaiah 44:6) I referred to speaks of Yahweh as the King. It speaks of the Kingdom of God not the kingdom of men. It is an everlasting kingdom, whose King is everlasting.

Tong
R2471

 

[Brakelite]

@Wrangler @Truther
...Please tell us who... How many spirits...
We have abiding within.
KJV Romans 8:9-11
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

According to the above the Father is in us (He Who raised Christ),
Christ is in us,
The Spirit of God is in us,
The Spirit of Christ is in us.
Seems fairly crowded. Any ideas?

 

[Truther]

Oh Lord! You are over extrapolating linearly. Today we know more about Egyptian hieroglyphics than the KJV translators. It was Napoleon in the 1800's who discovered the Rosetta Stone.

LOL

The "scholars" understood nothing about the Egyptian Hieroglyphics until a couple hundred years ago. Then they invented the meanings the best they could.

Just think, in 100 years they will know more than the creators of the stones that wrote it.

How an imagination works.

 

[Truther]

You now think God made a man and dwelled in that man, and have other men and the angels worship that man?

Have you considered scriptures saying Jesus is King of Israel and is the first and the last? Do you believe that?

Tong
R2460

Yes....the God of Jesus, the first and the last is INSIDE Jesus now.

You have been trained in your mind to dissect God and Jesus as side by side.

On earth, God spoke THROUGH Jesus.

In heaven, God speaks THROUGH Jesus.

On earth, God worked THROUGH Jesus.

In heaven, God works THROUGH Jesus.

 

[Truther]

I already answered that.

Now, are you suggesting that Jeremiah pre-existed during that transcendent experience of God with him?

Tong
R2462

He preexisted from the foundation of the world in God's mind, which is reality.

Here also, millions were seen by God taking the mark of the beast and their names blotted out of the book of life before God created the world....

8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet i

 

[Truther]

So you take KJV as the correct translation of the Bible over the others because of that. I see your reason now.

May I ask, from where have they translated from?

Tong
R2463

Ancient Greek.

 

[Truther]

Most translations are made by a team. The NSRV that my wife got for Christmas had one editor for each of the 66 books + an overall OT and another overall for NT.

I have a lot of respect for people who
Undertake the translation process. In the case of the CEV, the target audience is 8th grade reading level and is a thought translation. In the case of NSRV, the lean more toward academic, word for word.

I deeply admire and appreciate the nuanced differences among the many excellent English translations.

Do you admire the copyright laws they are under to force them to differ from each other by about 50,000 words too?

 

[Truther]

Remember all things were made by the the Word (John chapter 1) and all things were made by him. We are then told the Word, who is Spirit, became flesh and dwelt among us, "For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily." (Colossians 2:9) and they called his name Jesus. One God in heaven and on earth.

This was God's plan of salvation, and for that I will turn the Gleason Archer who explains it better than I can:-

"God had to become one of us in order to redeem us from the guilt and penalty of our sin. And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth’ ‘(John 1:14).

God as God could not forgive us for our sins unless our sins were fully paid for; otherwise He would have been a condoner and protector of the violation of His own holy law. It was only as a man, that God in Christ could furnish satisfaction sufficient to atone for the sins of mankind; for only a man, a true human being, could properly represent the human race. But at the same time our Redeemer had to be God, for only God could furnish a sacrifice of infinite value, to compensate for the penalty of eternal hell that our sin demands, according to the righteous claims of divine justice. Only God could have devised a way of salvation that made it possible for Him to remain Just and at the same time become the Justifier of the ungodly and instead of sending them to the everlasting perdition they deserved it was the perfect Man who was also infinite God that furnished an effectual sacrifice for all believers of every age." (Gleason Archer)

Footnote:
The perfect Man who is also the infinite Spirit we call God the Father are :- Father, Son and Holy Spirit. They are One. (This is the One Triune God.)
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Col 2:9 happened to Jesus after his God raised him from the dead, first making him bodily omnipresent.

He was too small for all of what God consists of to fit inside him bodily on earth.

 

[Truther]

@Wrangler @Truther
...Please tell us who... How many spirits...
We have abiding within.
KJV Romans 8:9-11
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

According to the above the Father is in us (He Who raised Christ),
Christ is in us,
The Spirit of God is in us,
The Spirit of Christ is in us.
Seems fairly crowded. Any ideas?

We have 2 S(s)pirits in our bodies.

The divine Spirit of God and the glorified human spirit of Christ, which his God is inside...God inside Christ...inside us.

 

[Cooper]

Col 2:9 happened to Jesus after his God raised him from the dead, first making him bodily omnipresent.

He was too small for all of what God consists of to fit inside him bodily on earth.

You have said that before, and I nearly pulled you up on it. The part you highlighted tells us ALL the fullness of the Godhead was present in the body of Jesus when he was here on earth. The most powerful thing on earth is the smallest thing on earth. That is the atom. Its power is released when it is made even smaller, when it is split.
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[Cooper]

We have 2 S(s)pirits in our bodies.

The divine Spirit of God and the glorified human spirit of Christ, which his God is inside...God inside Christ...inside us.

There is only one Spirit, and the reason for that is because the Father is the Spirit that dwells in Jesus Christ while he was here on earth. Remember Jesus is the Word (God) who created all things in the beginning, Father and Son are literally One. The Fathers Spirit resides in the Body of Jesus. They killed the Flesh but not the Word in him that reigns eternally, from the foundation of the world.
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[Wrangler]

LOL

The "scholars" understood nothing about the Egyptian Hieroglyphics until a couple hundred years ago. Then they invented the meanings the best they could.

Just think, in 100 years they will know more than the creators of the stones that wrote it.

How an imagination works.

False Alternative. Knowledge generally increases with time.

The whole subject of history is different from journalism. We know more about historical figures today than the masses who flocked to hear them speak.

 

[Cooper]

We have 2 S(s)pirits in our bodies.

The divine Spirit of God and the glorified human spirit of Christ, which his God is inside...God inside Christ...inside us.

You just said Christ's body was too small, and now you are saying two divine spirits are present in us. Think it through please.
.

 

[Wrangler]

Please tell us who... How many spirits...
We have abiding within.

According to the above the Father is in us (He Who raised Christ),
Christ is in us,
The Spirit of God is in us,
The Spirit of Christ is in us.
Seems fairly crowded. Any ideas

There is a story of man having a legion of spirits, meaning 1,000. Clearly, we are influenced by many in our life, family, friend, teachers, etc. Why does it matter the number?

 

[Wrangler]

And in Isaiah 44, who is the one saying is King of Israel. In John 1, while it is Nathaniel who said that Jesus is the Son of God

This is a desperate attempt to equate things that are not equal. Last week I said it was snowing. If one looks out the window now, it is an improper use of language to determine that I was wrong or lying. Saul was King of Israel. David was king of Israel. Solomon was king of Israel. How do you reconcile all these kings of Israel?

 

[Cooper]

This is a desperate attempt to equate things that are not equal. Last week I said it was snowing. If one looks out the window now, it is an improper use of language to determine that I was wrong or lying. Saul was King of Israel. David was king of Israel. Solomon was king of Israel. How do you reconcile all these kings of Israel?

Carry on like that, and you will have multiple gods, never mind kings, one after the other.
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[Wrangler]

Can't answer my question. Gotcha!