For free will believers out there

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
Of course He did not. He would not go against the truth written in Hebrews 9:27.

The passage you quoted does not say that. Read the passage and context carefully.

Well you are adding some implied things to the simple verse in Peter! Those dead were already judged as either saved or lost and there was no going down to change teh judgment ordered upon their death. You are reading into Scripture things that simply are not there.

Not something implied or am reading in.How is that an implication and a reading in? It’s interpretation. I interpret like so and you interpret differently as you do there.

I’ll quote that passage and context, and read carefully.

1 Peter 3:18 For Christ also suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive by the Spirit, 19 by whom also He went and preached to the spirits in prison,

In v.19 He was not really talking about Himself but about the Spirit.

To whom and when did He said He preached by the Spirit?

1 Peter 3:20 who formerly were disobedient, when once the Divine longsuffering waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water.

It’s not to all the dead, but to them who were disobedient in the days of Noah whom He had poured His wrath upon by killing them in the flood.

It’s not after He died nor before He resurrected, but during those days while Noah was building the ark.

Tong
R2328

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

But I believe on the basis of scriptures which speaks of the tree of life that Adam could eat of that he may live forever which means that Adam was created without having that.

But yes, you can keep believing otherwise.

Tong
R2327

The trees are not magical, not even the tree of life.The scripture does not indicate that it had inherent life-giving qualities in its fruit; instead, it represented God’s guarantee of everlasting life to those he would allow to eat of its fruit.—Ge 2:9; 3:22.
Being allowed to live for eternity was conditional that Adam was obedient to the True God because of his love was so great, Adam would exercise faith that he could trust the True God loved him and would never want to cause him to go down a path that wasn't in his best interests.

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
But I believe on the basis of scriptures which speaks of the tree of life that Adam could eat of that he may live forever which means that Adam was created without having that.

But yes, you can keep believing otherwise.

The trees are not magical, not even the tree of life.The scripture does not indicate that it had inherent life-giving qualities in its fruit; instead, it represented God’s guarantee of everlasting life to those he would allow to eat of its fruit.—Ge 2:9; 3:22.
Being allowed to live for eternity was conditional that Adam was obedient to the True God because of his love was so great, Adam would exercise faith that he could trust the True God loved him and would never want to cause him to go down a path that wasn't in his best interests.

Adam was not forbidden and so was allowed to eat of the tree of life and live forever, until he ate of the forbidden tree of the knowledge of good and evil, and was corrupted, and was not allowed access to the tree of life.

Tong
R2329

 

[Truther]

We covered this already. An exclamation is not a statement of fact. If someone shows me their cracked and non-functional cell phone and I say, “oh crap” that does not mean I am declaring the cell phone to be crap.

So, Thomas was really saying "oh my God you're alive"?

 

[Truther]

<<<God has the nature of man?>>>

The Word, who was God, obviously had took upon the nature of man when He incarnated in the person of Jesus Christ, yet ceased not to be God. If you are looking for a logical and rational explanation how that could be, I could not give you any in the same way I could not give you any on how water had become wine in a wedding feast in the earthly days of Jesus. Do I believe that God incarnated without having a logical and rational explanation of how that could be? Yes I do, in the same way I believe that the water became wine.

<<<Peter says we are partaker of God's divine nature.>>>

And yes we are.

<<<You teach God swapped natures with man.(I will take your nature and you take Mine).>>>

No, I don’t teach that.

Tong
R2315

By teaching God has a human nature and man has a divine nature(Holy Ghost infilling), you teach swapping natures with God(inadvertently).

 

[Truther]

Read and understand what I posted.

Tong
R2316

I know what you believe(same as the rest).

You believe per Phil 2, God became a man and humbled Himself.

This must flabbergast almighty God to think Jesus' existence made God become humble in man's eyes.

 

[Truther]

Let's stay on the topic we're texting about, Adam had freewill, the ability to make choices. Adam chose to disobey God and he lost eternal life for himself and his offspring.

So God sent Michael the Archangel(last Adam) through Mary's ovaries to fix it?

 

[Wrangler]

So, Thomas was really saying "oh my God you're alive"?

Yes. He called Jesus his Lord but wasn't Jesus his Lord before the crucifixion?

The resurrection is an unprecedented story. It's no wonder the witnesses were shocked and in disbelief. As I recall, when Mary told them, even Peter doubted, dismissed her claim. The point of the story is not what Thomas exclaimed upon seeing Jesus but he stated he would NOT believe until he touched the wounds.

Jesus replied, blessed are those who believe without seeing.

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
<<<God has the nature of man?>>>

The Word, who was God, obviously had took upon the nature of man when He incarnated in the person of Jesus Christ, yet ceased not to be God. If you are looking for a logical and rational explanation how that could be, I could not give you any in the same way I could not give you any on how water had become wine in a wedding feast in the earthly days of Jesus. Do I believe that God incarnated without having a logical and rational explanation of how that could be? Yes I do, in the same way I believe that the water became wine.

<<<Peter says we are partaker of God's divine nature.>>>

And yes we are.

<<<You teach God swapped natures with man.(I will take your nature and you take Mine).>>>

No, I don’t teach that.

By teaching God has a human nature and man has a divine nature(Holy Ghost infilling), you teach swapping natures with God(inadvertently).

No, not swapping natures with God.

Tong
R2331

 

[Behold]

So, Thomas was really saying "oh my God you're alive"?

No, he was saying "you are my Lord and my God".

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
Read and understand what I posted.

I know what you believe(same as the rest).

You believe per Phil 2, God became a man and humbled Himself.

This must flabbergast almighty God to think Jesus' existence made God become humble in man's eyes.

If you know what I believe, then why does it seem that you speak of things which I do not believe? Like in your post there.

I believe that God incarnated in the person of the man Jesus as per John 1, and not really as per Phil.2. The man that he became, the man Jesus, humbled himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross, as per Phil.2.

<<<This must flabbergast almighty God to think Jesus' existence made God become humble in man's eyes.>>>

Well, with that kind of human reasoning, you can also say that it must flabbergast almighty God to think Jesus’ existence made God become poor in man’s eyes, or made God become a servant in man’s eyes. Well,....

Tong
R2332

 

[Truther]

Yes. He called Jesus his Lord but wasn't Jesus his Lord before the crucifixion?

The resurrection is an unprecedented story. It's no wonder the witnesses were shocked and in disbelief. As I recall, when Mary told them, even Peter doubted, dismissed her claim. The point of the story is not what Thomas exclaimed upon seeing Jesus but he stated he would NOT believe until he touched the wounds.

Jesus replied, blessed are those who believe without seeing.

28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and ......OH my God!

LOL

 

[Truther]

No, not swapping natures with God.

Tong
R2331

Okay, this means God did not take on man's nature, correct?

 

[Truther]

No, he was saying "you are my Lord and my God".

Good, tell that to Wrangler.

 

[Truther]

If you know what I believe, then why does it seem that you speak of things which I do not believe? Like in your post there.

I believe that God incarnated in the person of the man Jesus as per John 1, and not really as per Phil.2. The man that he became, the man Jesus, humbled himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross, as per Phil.2.

<<<This must flabbergast almighty God to think Jesus' existence made God become humble in man's eyes.>>>

Well, with that kind of human reasoning, you can also say that it must flabbergast almighty God to think Jesus’ existence made God become poor in man’s eyes, or made God become a servant in man’s eyes. Well,....

Tong
R2332

God never demoted Himself in any way to His creation. That is impossible when one is ALL MIGHTY.

But, God can beget a son with a woman that is sinless, to humble his self to his fellow sinful humans etc.

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
No, not swapping natures with God.

Okay, this means God did not take on man's nature, correct?

What is your reading of John 1:14? Does it not say, “And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us”?

Tong
R2333

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
If you know what I believe, then why does it seem that you speak of things which I do not believe? Like in your post there.

I believe that God incarnated in the person of the man Jesus as per John 1, and not really as per Phil.2. The man that he became, the man Jesus, humbled himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross, as per Phil.2.

<<<This must flabbergast almighty God to think Jesus' existence made God become humble in man's eyes.>>>

Well, with that kind of human reasoning, you can also say that it must flabbergast almighty God to think Jesus’ existence made God become poor in man’s eyes, or made God become a servant in man’s eyes. Well,....

God never demoted Himself in any way to His creation. That is impossible when one is ALL MIGHTY.

But, God can beget a son with a woman that is sinless, to humble his self to his fellow sinful humans etc.

God, by the miracle of the incarnation, never demoted Himself in any way. For in the nature of God, He cannot stop being God.

Tong
R2334

 

[Truther]

What is your reading of John 1:14? Does it not say, “And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us”?

Tong
R2333

It says the word(spoken word of God) was MADE flesh.

 

[Truther]

God, by the miracle of the incarnation, never demoted Himself in any way. For in the nature of God, He cannot stop being God.

Tong
R2334

God incarnated Himself into a microscopic cell or a full grown man?

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
What is your reading of John 1:14? Does it not say, “And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us”?

It says the word(spoken word of God) was MADE flesh.

Not MADE in the original Greek text. Check out the Greek text of that verse.

Tong
R2334