You really mean Jehovah implanted a microscopic Michael the Archangel in Mary's ovaries.
Tell the truth and shame the devil, Barney.
For free will believers out there
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Tell the truth and shame the devil, Barney.
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
We covered this already. An exclamation is not a statement of fact. If someone shows me their cracked and non-functional cell phone and I say, “oh crap” that does not mean I am declaring the cell phone to be crap.
BARNEY BRIGHT
Well-Known Member
You can quibble all you want about words that's all you're doing. Adam lost eternal life for himself and his offspring when he sinned.
BARNEY BRIGHT
Well-Known Member
I believe you honestly think you know what it implies, when the scriptures say Jesus had a prehuman existence, but I think you're wrong about what you believe that means. The Only-Begotten Son of God was said to be the Only-Begotten Son of God before he became human and was named Jesus.
<<<God has the nature of man?>>>
The Word, who was God, obviously had took upon the nature of man when He incarnated in the person of Jesus Christ, yet ceased not to be God. If you are looking for a logical and rational explanation how that could be, I could not give you any in the same way I could not give you any on how water had become wine in a wedding feast in the earthly days of Jesus. Do I believe that God incarnated without having a logical and rational explanation of how that could be? Yes I do, in the same way I believe that the water became wine.
<<<Peter says we are partaker of God's divine nature.>>>
And yes we are.
<<<You teach God swapped natures with man.(I will take your nature and you take Mine).>>>
No, I don’t teach that.
Tong
R2315
BARNEY BRIGHT
Well-Known Member
Let's stay on the topic we're texting about, Adam had freewill, the ability to make choices. Adam chose to disobey God and he lost eternal life for himself and his offspring.
Too bad. No matter what babies don't have faith!
Those who never heard the gospel don't have faith in Jesus.
So you do have multiple ways in contradiction to the Scriptures
Acts 4:12
Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.
You should care about the name--God the Father does!
Philippians 2:9-10
King James Version
9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
Now you can quibble over which language you should use, but that is just straining at gnats.
If people in lands that have never heard the gospel can be saved apart from the gospel- then the church is foolish to spend the billions we do on sending missionaries!
and babies you say are ssaved! that means they are children of God and have eternal life and have their names written in the lambs book of life! But as soon as they commit a sin- all that is taken away and they have to repeat it all over again! That is not the bible.
BARNEY BRIGHT
Well-Known Member
Well you are preaching another gospel then.
for this is what the bible says:
Acts 4:12
Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.
Romans 10:9-13
King James Version
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
I wish there were multiple cards to be saved, it would make it easy for all believers! but there isn't . apart from trusting in Jesus, there is no salvation.
Well you are adding some implied things to the simple verse in Peter! Those dead were already judged as either saved or lost and there was no going down to change teh judgment ordered upon their death. You are reading into Scripture things that simply are not there.
So you are saying Jesus was a man in heaven? You say Jehovah transferred Jesus life into the womb of Mary.
Yes Jesus is the only begotten son of God, but you do not know what monogenes means.
Sorry but He was not a man in heaven prior, nor was He michael the Archangel in heaven. He was and still is the eternal God the Son. Not God the Father, but God the Son.
Well it was not just a spattering of insults. And I am sorry, but one who posts as if they are a semi literate scholar of Scripture (by this i mean a serious student) and does not know that the old and new are vastly different while also similar, is benighted scripturally.
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
I am really liking the Christ is just a man vs God is a monster conversation going on here. How about throwing in some Voodoo stuff too? A little bit of chicken blood. You guys like to quote the Old Testament, how about throwing in some animal sacrifice with the fat of the liver and rub blood on each other? The Bible talks about Jacob's ladder, and Elijah's fiery chariot, and Ezekiel's flying machine, and Christ ascending to the Father...how about throwing in some UFO stuff too. What the Bible says...so go for it! It fits! You could say Christ flew a Boeing 747 back to the Old and New Testaments to deliver bags of "J's" so they could use them in their texts. At least use some imagination!
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
<<<Too bad. No matter what babies don't have faith!>>>
We could only believe what scriptures says about those who died in their infancy and childhood. That they have at least sinned in Adam. The only way that they are saved is by God’s grace, as is for all, which I am inclined to believe, they received the grace of salvation by the work of Jesus Christ who said, “for of such is the kingdom of God”.
Yes, it is reasonable for us humans to think that babies don’t have faith, but we never really know.
<<<Those who never heard the gospel don't have faith in Jesus.>>>
I agree. For even to whom the gospel is preached, not all hear it and so don’t have faith in Jesus Christ.
<<<So you do have multiple ways in contradiction to the Scriptures>>>
Not if you read carefully what I said in my posts.
<<<You should care about the name--God the Father does!>>>
Thanks. But I do ever since I had come to Christ.
<<<If people in lands that have never heard the gospel can be saved apart from the gospel- then the church is foolish to spend the billions we do on sending missionaries!>>>
I am afraid that you have a somewhat different perspective of what the gospel is, as I had in the past. But keep reading God’s words and perhaps the time will come when you too will see it as I see it now. And since no flesh and blood made me see that, I believe that too will be with you when you see it.
<<<and babies you say are ssaved! that means they are children of God and have eternal life and have their names written in the lambs book of life! But as soon as they commit a sin- all that is taken away and they have to repeat it all over again! That is not the bible.>>>
Not accurate, for what I said is that I believe they are saved. That is not being dogmatic, but more of being inclined, as I have above clarified.
What you present there is hypothetical. One who died an infant has no life history that we can look into, except the infant life that he lived. While we can say they surely will sin IF they had not died and continued to live on to maturity, is nothing but that which is only in our mind.
Tong
R2326
But I believe on the basis of scriptures which speaks of the tree of life that Adam could eat of that he may live forever which means that Adam was created without having that.
But yes, you can keep believing otherwise.
Tong
R2327
BARNEY BRIGHT
Well-Known Member
I'm not saying the only Begotten Son of God was or is a man in heaven, although I think it's interesting that someone who believes that Jesus was a God-Man is asking me if I believe Jesus to be a man in heaven.
monogenes is defined by lexicographers as “single of its kind, only,” or “the only member of a kin or kind.”
The Greek Septuagint uses monogenes when speaking of Jephthah’s daughter, concerning whom it is written: “Now she was absolutely the only child. Besides her he had neither son nor daughter.”Judges 11:14
And as I said, the apostle John repeatedly describes the Lord Jesus Christ as the only-begotten Son of God. (John 1:14; 3:16,18; 1John4:9) and this is not in reference to his human birth or to him as just the man Jesus. As the Logos, or Word, “this one was in the beginning with God,” even “before the world was.” (John 1:1,2; 17:5,24) At that time while in his prehuman state of existence, he is described as the “only-begotten Son” whom his Father sent “into the world.”1John 4:9
What anyone thinks of Michael the Archangel, I don't worry about. I care more what the scriptures say about Michael the Archangel than what you and others believe.
At 1 Thessalonians 4:16, in speaking of the superiority of the archangel and the authority of his office, it does so in reference to the resurrected Lord Jesus Christ: “The Lord himself will descend from heaven with a commanding call, with an archangel’s voice and with God’s trumpet, and those who are dead in union with Christ will rise first.” It is, therefore, not without significance that the only name directly associated with the word “archangel” is Michael. Jude 9
Miʹcha·el which means Who Is Like God. It's the only holy angel other than Gabriel named in the Bible, and the only one called “archangel.” (Jude 9) The first occurrence of the name is in 10th chapter of Daniel where Michael is described as “one of the foremost princes”; he came to the aid of a lesser angel who was opposed by “the prince of the royal realm of Persia.” Michael was called “the prince of Daniel’s people,” “the great prince who is standing in behalf of the sons of Daniel’s people.” (Daniel 10:13,20,21; 12:1) This points to Michael as the angel who led the Israelites through the wilderness. (Ex.23:20,21,23; 32:34; 33:2) Lending support to this conclusion is the fact that “Michael the archangel had a difference with the Devil and was disputing about Moses’ body.”—Jude 9.
Now let's talk about the phrase, "God the Son." There is nothing in the scriptures that justifies anyone inverting the greek phrase, "monogenes theos,” at John 1:18 which means, "Only Begotten God," to, "God Only Begotten." According to the most reliable manuscripts, "monogenes theos," is translated to, "Only Begotten God." Those who invert monogenes theos change it to try and prove there doctrine.
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