quietthinker
Well-Known Member
Your reply here my friend indicates you are familiar with the points of my comment on your poor judgement in post #237
....so then, knowing this and maintaining a dismissive attitude leaves you without excuse.
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....so then, knowing this and maintaining a dismissive attitude leaves you without excuse.
then perhaps you could point out a cogent argument from this oh so excellent work
his chapter on Mary and Jesus following the commandments and honoring His mother by granting her requests was beautiful but his ideas about the scripture the devil used to tempt him was ridiculous
quietthinker
Well-Known Member
Read the book theefaith; Charles Chiniquy's story...from start to finish. If you can do it objectively you'll find it insightful.
He is a faithful Son of the Church....that comes through clearly. He's not an antagonist any more than Paul is to the Jews.....so go ahead and get informed.
what church? He rejected Christ and his church
he who is not with me is against me
There is only one true church founded by Christ on Peter and the apostles and their successors is the new covenant body of Christ! Matt 16:18 One fold
Jn 10:16 the household of faith! Gal 6:10
1 Timothy 3:15
But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.
Christ and His church are one: acts 22:9 why persecute me?
BARNEY BRIGHT
Well-Known Member
Then you're not listening when it says all eyes will see him including those that pierced him. Those that pierced him were the Roman soldiers. Are you trying to tell me that these Roman soldiers that pierced Jesus have been alive for all these thousands of years and will still be alive when Armageddon begins and they will literally see Jesus, cause I don't think so.
I am saying that they will see Him again when they are resurrected, whether they are wicked or righteous (Daniel 12:2).
BARNEY BRIGHT
Well-Known Member
Well not to get to talking of the resurrection because revelation 1:7 has nothing to do with the resurrection. Someone had brought up Revelation 1:7 to prove that every person would literally see Jesus but Revelation 1:7 is showing us the beginning of the war of Armageddon. People will literally see that destruction of that war of Armmageddon, but they will not literally see Jesus.
As for what you're talking about concerning Daniel 12:2 this is a general resurrection that Jesus spoke about in John 5:28,29. However these who are to be resurrected that Daniel 12:2 touches on and that Jesus speaks of at John 5:28,29 is the resurrection of those who will be the subjects of that kingdom and will be resurrected on Earth. These who will be resurrected on Earth will not see Jesus. Jesus said at John 14:19 that the world would not see him no more. His apostles and disciples saw Jesus after his resurrection but no one other than them saw him, the world did not see him just as he said.
No, it isn't.
You are taking that verse out of context. Clearly, everyone in the world will stand before Jesus Christ Himself at the Great White Throne Judgment.
Well I will give you but one post to apologize for bearing false witness against my many teachers before I pout the likes of you on ignore.
You lie and you bear false witness. One shot take it or not! YOU presume and make false assumptions. YOu are not in a good place.
I agree with you rfirst three lines.
As to your last line, I have to disagree AFAIK calvinistic doctrine.
No one who comes to Christ will be cast out that is SCripture. but only the elect come to Christ!
YOu forget that mankind is born and dies in a fallen spiritually dead state! 1 Cor. 2 is important to remember that the unsaved man thinks the things of God are foolishness!
We do not want by nature to be subject ot god nor can we be. It takes god changing a person so that they want to come and want to submit and want to love God!.
No one who wants to come to Christ will ever be lost!
If anyone comes to Christ they are of the elect is what you are saying.
This is not what I hear from certain Calvinistic sources.
They teach that God has chosen in advance who can come to Him and that if He has not chosen them, they cannot come to Him.
If this understanding is only based on confusion about what Calvinism teaches, then I am here to clear up that confusion;
By saying that if anyone comes to Jesus He will in no wise cast them out.
Iow, He is not going to reject them because they are of the non-elect.
I know that you are saying that the non-elect simply do not come to Him in their lifetimes; but I say what I say in order that the inquirer may know that he is not of the non-elect unless and until he permanently rejects Jesus as his Lord and Saviour.
Why not just say that God predestinates according to foreknowledge of whether a man will receive Christ within his lifetime? It clears up the confusion.
Because when you say that God chooses people out for heaven and hell and they have no choice in the matter, it deters people from coming to Christ. If they think that the door is sealed shut they will not attempt to enter in by it.
But if they understand that they are of the elect the moment they come to Christ, then they can determine whether or not they will be of the elect by coming to Christ.
As to foreknowledge:
Biblical foreknowledge is not God looking down the path of the future and seeing what a person will or will not do! That is not foreknowlege. Biblically it is known in advance through pre-planning. It is akin to predestinating. The Greek word is prognosis Which just like a doctor- they know what will happen because the know the course they will take and the result of that course.
Your version of foreknowledge may clear up confusion, but it is inaccurate biblically. I do not comfort anyone based on a lie!
As for Inquirers? We preach the gospel to all. Neither you or I know who is elect or not! For anyone to say they do on an indiviual pbasis is arrogance to the extreme!
They teach that, because that is exactly what SCripture clearly and unambiguously teaches! No one can come to Jesus unless the Father compels them!
This is grave error! god does not choose people for hell. Everyone by nature are lost! Let me repeat that: Everyone is lost! god does not have to choose to send them to hell, we are born condemened by our own natures inherited from our original parents!
God chooses some to be saved ONLY! Based on who He is , not who we are!
BARNEY BRIGHT
Well-Known Member
BARNEY said:
Revelation 1:7 is showing us the beginning of the war of Armageddon.[/Quote\]
Justbyfaith said:
No, it isn't.[/Quote\]
It is in a sense of spiritual seeing that Revelation 1:7 is to be understood. “Every eye” is made to “see” him because, even though they may refuse to show faith now, when Christ executes the wicked, they will know what is happening because they have been told in advance. Revelation 1:7 is about Jesus executing the wicked. However, that Jesus would not visibly return he himself made clear, saying: “A little longer and the world will behold me no more, but you will behold me, because I live and you will live.” (John 14:19) Mankind in general would behold him no more because he was going to return to heaven. But the “little flock” would behold him because he was going to take them to be with him there.
So Christ’s return does not mean that he returns as a man to live on earth. Rather, it means that he takes up his kingly rule toward the earth and that he resurrects his “little flock” from the dead to their reward in the heavens. There they share in carrying out the loving purpose of God by means of his kingdom. Revelation 11:15-18.
Revelation 1:7 is showing us the beginning of the war of Armageddon.[/Quote\]
Justbyfaith said:
No, it isn't.[/Quote\]
It is in a sense of spiritual seeing that Revelation 1:7 is to be understood. “Every eye” is made to “see” him because, even though they may refuse to show faith now, when Christ executes the wicked, they will know what is happening because they have been told in advance. Revelation 1:7 is about Jesus executing the wicked. However, that Jesus would not visibly return he himself made clear, saying: “A little longer and the world will behold me no more, but you will behold me, because I live and you will live.” (John 14:19) Mankind in general would behold him no more because he was going to return to heaven. But the “little flock” would behold him because he was going to take them to be with him there.
So Christ’s return does not mean that he returns as a man to live on earth. Rather, it means that he takes up his kingly rule toward the earth and that he resurrects his “little flock” from the dead to their reward in the heavens. There they share in carrying out the loving purpose of God by means of his kingdom. Revelation 11:15-18.
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So then, since no one knows who is elect and who is non-elect, we ought to tell people that if they will receive Christ, it will cause them to be of the elect.
But if you say to them that they may be of the non-elect and that if they are, they cannot come to Christ, many will say, "the door is locked from the inside and I cannot presume to force it open; so I will rest content in the fact that god has condemned me to hell by his arbitrary decision and that I have no choice in the matter; and therefore I will laugh in hell at the conscience of God which will afflict him for all of eternity because he chose not to save me when I desired to be saved and sought out his salvation."
Really, if you are going to believe in Calvinism at least take it the whole way and realize that there are even passages in the Bible that teach double predestination (such as Jude 1:3-4). I would say that it is according to foreknowledge of the fact that God knew in advance who these false teachers were going to be, because He is outside of time; and prepared their condemnation from of old; knowing exactly who it would be that would be a recipient of His righteous judgment in the condemning of their souls.
BARNEY BRIGHT
Well-Known Member
It was the Roman soldiers who pierced Jesus with a spear. The scriptures show us that, you want to disagree with the scriptures then do so, I'm not going to agree with you.
Wrong. Jesus returns as the glorified God-man that He is! He is the first fruits of the resurrection from the dead. To be resurrected, you have to rise with what you died in!
both
Acts 4:27
For of a truth against thy holy child Jesus, whom thou hast anointed, both Herod, and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles, and the people of Israel, were gathered together,
acts 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
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