For free will believers out there

[justbyfaith]

A person can be baptized and just be getting wet; if their baptism isn't a genuine confession of Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour and an identification with Him in His death, burial, and resurrection.

@justbyfaith.

 

[Enoch111]

you know of another? Matt 16:18 Jn 10:16 one church founded by Christ on Peter and the apostles

I would suggest that you read Fifty Years in the Church of Rome to get a real insight into this church. This is written by an actual Catholic priest.

 

[quietthinker]

I would suggest that you read Fifty Years in the Church of Rome to get a real insight into this church. This is written by an actual Catholic priest.

yeahhhh....I can verify this.

 

[quietthinker]

@theefaith You can get the book 'Fifty years in the Church of Rome by Charles Chiniquy' as a download free of charge as an ebook from
gutenberg.org

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

Justbyfaith said
They will see Him when He returns (or later) because they will be resurrected
Daniel 12:2); whether they are righteous or wicked.[/Quote\]

Well the scripture quoted to me, Revelation 1:7 doesn't prove they will literally see him. I know you most likely won't agree with that. You will either ignore what's it's actually saying or interpret it the way you want to see it instead of what it actually says.

 

[theefaith]

Sadly predictable.
I took a shower today. Am I saved again?

a shower is not the sacrament of baptism
Not the whole ritual
Water and the spirit and grace and the words
And you cannot baptize yourself

 

[theefaith]

I would suggest that you read Fifty Years in the Church of Rome to get a real insight into this church. This is written by an actual Catholic priest.

I would suggest that you read Fifty Years in the Church of Rome to get a real insight into this church. This is written by an actual Catholic priest.

Another apostate
Typical misunderstanding and accusations

 

[theefaith]

@theefaith You can get the book 'Fifty years in the Church of Rome by Charles Chiniquy' as a download free of charge as an ebook from
gutenberg.org

I thought it must be the Bible alone?
Why would I want a book of another apostate priest
Christ said He who not with me is against me

 

[Truther]

Well as I quoted Paul in Romans 10 and the fact Paul did almost no baptizing I stand on sure ground.

JOhns baptism was not salvific in nature.

Baptism is a command, but it is commanded after on ehas believed and has been saved.

The baptism that does save is the Baptism of the Spirit. that occurs th emoment we believe.

Romans 10:9-13
King James Version

9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.

13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

There is a real reason that Paul did not include baptism in the formula to be saved. Because it is not needed to be saved.

YOu forget Acts is a transition for Jews from the law to grace. Baptism is a public identification of what one already believes.

You just skipped Acts and presented the Epistle to the saints of Rome to sinners.

Very naughty.

 

[theefaith]

I would suggest that you read Fifty Years in the Church of Rome to get a real insight into this church. This is written by an actual Catholic priest.

I would suggest you read the glories of Mary and the victory of the martyrs st. Alphonse Lugori and the secret of the rosary St. Louis de Montfort all on line free or youtube

 

[Cooper]

Justbyfaith said
They will see Him when He returns (or later) because they will be resurrected
Daniel 12:2); whether they are righteous or wicked.[/Quote\]

Well the scripture quoted to me, Revelation 1:7 doesn't prove they will literally see him. I know you most likely won't agree with that. You will either ignore what's it's actually saying or interpret it the way you want to see it instead of what it actually says.

Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen. (Revelation 1:7)

And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn. (Zechariah 12:10)

And again another scripture saith, They shall look on him whom they pierced. (John 19:37)
.

 

[Wrangler]

Context of Jn 3:5 “born again”

John1:26 John answered them, saying, I baptize with water: but there standeth one among you, whom ye know not; (John prepared the way by baptism)

Again, you are reading what is not in the text. John 3:5 is NOT talking about different kinds of baptism but different kinds birth's. Water birth refers to natural, normal, regular birth where we are in water until we are born (the water breaks). "Born again" refers to being born in the spirit - after our normal, water birth.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

ohn 6:37 is a verse that I often use to deal with a common understanding that people have when they hear the doctrines of Calvinism. They think, "if I am not of the elect, then I cannot come to Jesus Christ even if I wanted to."

I would say to them that they can come to Jesus Christ and that if they come to Him He will in no wise cast them out. In coming to Him they will prove that they were of the elect all along.

But hyper-Calvinism would say that even if the non-elect were to come to Jesus it would be of no avail for them because they are of the non-elect.

Well teaching church doctrine to the unsaved is throwing our pearles before swine as Jesus said! It takes the Holy spirit to understand biblical truths.

But to answer you crazy hypotheticals.

The unelect could care less to come to christ! They are in the flesh and are no subject to teh laew of God nor can be. They cannot please God and they think the things of God are foolishness.

The people who care about coming to Christ are the ones being drawn! Your hypothetical worry wart, can't come to Christ unless god draws HIm so it is an incorrect hypotheses anyway!

I don't care what hyper-Calvinism teaches. I just care what the bible says, and nothing in Scripture matches your hypothetical.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Well people can talk about the watchtower all they want, but it's just as easy to say the same thing about other peoples beliefs and how they're reasoningng on the scriptures. I can believe them to be false prophets just because they disagree with the watchtower.
I think people are imperfect human beings who have the right to their beliefs and express their beliefs, but that doesn't mean I'm going to necessarily agree with them, which I have the right to do. I'm going to choose who I honestly believe are in agreement with the scriptures. I don't agree with something that obviously isn't true just because if I don't agree they call me brainwashed, because frankly I can say the same thing about those who disagree with me, it's that easy.
When someone uses a scripture such as Revelation 1:7 to try to prove to me that Jesus will literally be seen when he returns the second time but that scripture doesn't prove that, then I'm not going to say it does. Like when that scripture says all eyes will see him which includes those who pierced him, which we know we're the Roman soldiers, I'm not going to believe that these Roman soldiers who pierced Jesus have lived for two thousand years and will literally see Jesus when Jesus is destroying the wicked at Armageddon. Anyone who want to be angry or call me brainwashed or whatever because I won't believe that, then do so.
The scripture at Revelation 1:7 shouldn't be interpreted as the eyes in this scripture are literal eyes because it makes the eyes that pierced Jesus literal, who like I said we're Roman soldiers. This scripture isn't saying those Roman soldiers who pierced Jesus would literally be seeing him at Armageddon. The eyes in this scripture are symbolic. This scripture is taking us right to when the war of Armageddon begins. People will not be seeing anything except the destruction being caused by Armageddon and people will know they're being destroyed by The True God using his Only Begotten Son to do it. This is all in agreement with the fact that it will be just like the days of Noah.

Wow Such a bowl of word spagetti all to say that you are going to believe what you want.

Jesus will be seen by every eye, because that is exactly what Scriptures says!

The word see is optomai- which only means to behold with ones eyes! If God inspired the Word eidos, then it could possibly be metaphorical. so for you to reject every eye seeing HIm ios to reject Scripture, Just like you do with the [physical resurrections of Jesus.

If you want to bash denominations, we can do that for months! Every denomination has skeletons. But no denomination or sect has preference before the throne- only individuals whpo accpet the death and physical resurrection of Jesus from the grave!

 

[Ronald Nolette]

You just skipped Acts and presented the Epistle to the saints of Rome to sinners.

Very naughty.

So they are different. So eithwer one is a lie or you are misunderstanding what is taking place in acts. I know it is the latter.

And if you had done sudy under a reputable techer, you would have learned that you do not build doctrine from the book of acts and that is the only place in the NT we see Baptism done like it was to the Jewish audience!

Paul downplayed baptism!

 

[Renniks]

The people who care about coming to Christ are the ones being drawn! Your hypothetical worry wart, can't come to Christ unless god draws HIm so it is an incorrect hypotheses anyway!

How's that theory work in real life?
God gives all a conscience. Lots of people feel guilt for sin but never come to Jesus and God doesn't blame himself, he blames them. Why, if they can't do otherwise?

 

[Ronald Nolette]

How's that theory work in real life?
God gives all a conscience. Lots of people feel guilt for sin but never come to Jesus and God doesn't blame himself, he blames them. Why, if they can't do otherwise?

And our consciences are fallen just like the rest of our soul!

As the Bible doesn't answer your question neither can I! any supposition on my part has an error ratio of anywhere from 0-100%

 

[Truther]

So they are different. So eithwer one is a lie or you are misunderstanding what is taking place in acts. I know it is the latter.

And if you had done sudy under a reputable techer, you would have learned that you do not build doctrine from the book of acts and that is the only place in the NT we see Baptism done like it was to the Jewish audience!

Paul downplayed baptism!

Here is what your phony teacher taught you.

He taught you to read the gospels, skip Acts and seek salvation in the saint's mail.

He is a mail thief.

He probably breaks into mailboxes around his town in his spare time...LOL.

What he forgot to teach you is that the N.T. was placed in a specific order for you to read, but Acts skipper teachers are very forgetful.

Here is what he forgot...

Matt-John....written to sinners.(John 20:31)

Acts....written to show sinners how to be saved(Acts 2:37-38) and the historical works of the church.

Romans - Rev....Epistles to already saved saints, written to edify, comfort and exhort them.

Your teacher omitted Acts and took sinners straight to Romans from John...very sneaky.

 

[theefaith]

Again, you are reading what is not in the text. John 3:5 is NOT talking about different kinds of baptism but different kinds birth's. Water birth refers to natural, normal, regular birth where we are in water until we are born (the water breaks). "Born again" refers to being born in the spirit - after our normal, water birth.

no it does not say born in water and born again in the spirit but born again BY water AND the spirit

 

[Wrangler]

no it does not say born in water and born again in the spirit but born again BY water AND the spirit

Right. A distinction without a difference. Most people know when a baby is born it is born BY water.

It is amazing that you do not concede one point, no matter how ridiculous you project meaning onto scripture that is not in the text. "Born again" refers to being born a second time. The first time one is born is BY water.