Flow of Daniel's 70 Weeks Prophecy

[Raeneske]

That's an ignorant statement. And it sort of reveals you've got a liking of her doctrines too.

We also notice you didn't attempt to address the content of the Dan.9:27 verse to back Ellen White's theories up either.



But the theories of 'others' is EXACTLY what you have admitted to believing in regarding Daniel's 70 weeks.




You have not even begun to TRY and address the events within the Daniel 9:27 verse. And THAT you MUST do... if you intend to prove Ellen White's interpretation of the Daniel 70 weeks prophecy.




You cannot just arbitrarily assign that "he" as being our Lord Jesus Christ. If you showed that single Dan.9:27 verse to someone who had never... read the Book of Daniel before, and asked them to interpret that single verse by itself, one of the first things they would ask is, "who is this 'he' mentioned here?" They would naturally... want to go back up in Dan.9 to the next previous verse to find that out...

Dan 9:26
26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
(KJV)

It's that specific "prince that shall come" which defines that "he" of the Daniel 9:27 verse. What does that "prince that shall come" do? He "shall destroy the city and the sanctuary;".

THAT particular "prince that shall come" there is NOT our Lord Jesus Christ. The word for "prince" by itself can simply mean 'commander, chief ruler, governer, leader, noble, captain' (Strong's no. 5057). That word for "prince" used for our Lord Jesus back in the Dan.9:25 verse was the phrase "the Messiah the Prince". Even the KJV translators understood that difference, since they put that word in capital as "the Messiah the Prince", meaning the Anointed Chief Ruler (i.e., King).

History has ALREADY revealed who that "prince that shall come" that would destroy the city and the sanctuary as the Roman general Titus who led the Roman army into Jerusalem and sacked it to the ground, with the 2nd temple burning to the ground. And we even know WHEN that happened, i.e., in 70 A.D.

But the doctrine you hold to has you placing that event when? Back 3.5 years during Christ's Ministry, and then 3.5 years after His crucifixion. You HAVE to include the actions by the false "prince" of Dan.9:25 concerning the destruction of 70 A.D. Jerusalem, because that's the "he" of Dan.9:27.

Let's see what trouble you run into with the next part...




Dan 9:27
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
(KJV)

The following verses further describes just what it is that "he" is to do in Jerusalem...

Dan 8:11-13
11 Yea, he magnified himself even to the prince of the host, and by him the daily sacrifice was taken away, and the place of his sanctuary was cast down.
12 And an host was given him against the daily sacrifice by reason of transgression, and it cast down the truth to the ground; and it practised, and prospered.
13 Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake, How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot?
(KJV)

Dan 11:31
31 And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.
(KJV)

Those above Dan.8:12-13 and Dan.11:31 verses further DEFINE just what that event of ending the sacrifice and doing the abomination is about. It is about ending that covenant and the sacrifices, and instead placing an abomination idol in the sanctuary that makes the sanctuary desolate (spiritually through false idol worship).

Did Jesus do ANY of that? NO! Absolutely NOT! To even infer that He did is borderling on blasphemy against The Holy Spirit!

An idol abomination IS the specific meaning per those Daniel Scriptures. And we've already been given a previous historical pattern for it with Antiochus IV in 165-170 B.C. who took Jerusalem, sacrificed swine upon the altar in the 2nd temple, and then setup an IDOL abomination inside it commanding all to bow to it in false worship. None of that working is of The Christ. Instead, it is a working of Satan and his servants. That particular "prince" of Dan.9:26 was the Roman general Titus serving as an anti-type for the coming final Antichrist.

During the time of our Lord Jesus' Ministry, He NEVER made any covenant for a limited time period of 7 years, and nor in the middle of the 7 years did He end sacrifices in Jerusalem and setup an abomination idol in the temple.

In the Dan.11:31 verse, the idea of "shall pollute the sanctuary of strength" means to SPIRITUALLY desolate a STANDING sanctuary in Jerusalem. How is that done? By placing an IDOL abomination in the sanctuary for false worship.

So you've got MAJOR PROBLEMS if you think Christ Jesus is Who does that.

Part II of the interpreting the meaning and time for the events of Daniel 9:27.

Because the "he" of Dan.9:27 must point back to that "prince that shall come" in v.26, and... that specific prince was about Titus in the 70 A.D. destruction of Jerusalem, then where did the ending of sacrifices and placing the abomination of desolation event fit in?

It doesn't fit in with anything Titus or the Romans did in 70 A.D. Some have tried to make those Dan.9:27 events fit in the time of 70 A.D. with the Roman general Titus, but the abomination idol did not happen then. No idol abomination was setup in the 2nd temple then, simply because the temple burned down before the Roman army could sieze control of it, as they had wanted to capture the temple entact per the Jewish historian Josephus.

Yet Daniel was given abundant info about the "vile person" that would come, exalting himself above God, ending sacrifices in Jerusalem with placing an abomination idol to make the sanctuary desolate (spiritually desolate with idol worship). That picture of an idol abomination in false worship is one of the MAJOR events written in the Book of Daniel, as the king of Babylon had a golden idol image made requiring all to bow in false worship to it at the sound of the psalter. And all those who refused to bow were to be killed.

That idol abomination idea is further established in later Bible prophecy, and it is for the end of days just prior to Christ's 2nd coming. In Christ's Olivet Discourse of Matthew 24 and Mark 13, He specifically warned of something being set in the holy place when answering His disciple's ponderings about the Jerusalem temple and temple mount area and the events to happen that end this world. In 2 Thess.2, Apostle Paul specifically covered the fact that two main events must occur prior to Christ's return and our gathering, that there must come a great apoasty, and the man of sin must first come to sit in a stone temple in Jerusalem, proclaiming himself as God, and over all that is called God or that is worshipped. Then in Rev.13, our Lord gave Apostle John to see a 2nd beast coming that speaks as a dragon, and does great wonders and signs to deceive, and sets up a beast image in false worship with almost the same kind of event that the king of Babylon did in Daniel's days with the golden idol.

Once all these prophetic events are understood as written, then it is practically impossible to miss their interlaced relationship with events to occur in Jerusalem for the end of this world involving a rebuilt temple, and a false one coming to power to sit in it and proclaim himself as God doing miracles to deceive, and his placing of a beast image idol in it like Antiochus IV did (instead of sacrifices), requiring all to bow in worship to that "abomination of desolation" idol or be killed.

God does give us blueprint patterns for prophetic fulfillment of future events in His Word. And the Dan.9:27 events is one such case. The history about Antiochus IV is proof of it. Even the Roman army under Titus is a blueprint, as also the golden idol image the king of Babylon setup for false worship. These patterns of partial fulfillment is what Apostle Paul called "ensamples" per 2 Cor.11. It's what Solomon said about what has been will be again, for there is no new thing under the sun. The fact that these events involve historical patterns and more details in later Bible prophecy for the end is about our Heavenly Father preparing those who pay attention to them of things to come.

And the Lord God called unto Adam, and said unto him, Where art thou? And he said, I heard thy voice in the garden, and I was afraid, because I was naked; and I hid myself. And he said, Who told thee that thou wast naked? Hast thou eaten of the tree, whereof I commanded thee that thou shouldest not eat? (Genesis 3:9-11 KJV)

Who was the previous he that was just refered to, according to the second he. Is it the he that was spoken of in the previous verse? No, it is the Lord.

And the Lord God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof; (Genesis 2:21 KJV)

The Lord caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam. Then the verse starts talking about Adam, and says he slept. And then it continues on into another he, who took one of his ribs. But is it referring to Adam, when stating the he took one of his ribs? No, although Adam was the previous one doing an action, scripture is refering to The Lord.

And the Lord said unto Cain, Where is Abel thy brother? And he said, I know not: Am I my brother's keeper? And he said, What hast thou done? the voice of thy brother's blood crieth unto me from the ground. (Genesis 4:9, 10 KJV)

The verse beforehand shows the he in this sentence being Cain. The next sentence immediatly switches the he to the Lord.

And Noah awoke from his wine, and knew what his younger son had done unto him. And he said, Cursed be Canaan; a servant of servants shall he be unto his brethren. And he said, Blessed be the Lord God of Shem; and Canaan shall be his servant. (Genesis 9:24-26 KJV)

Now this verse doesn't change the he it is referring to. "And he said" both times were referring to Noah. But not so much in the other verses. In the other verses, the "And he" switches back to the person first mentioned. This is the exact same thing that happens in Daniel 9:27. So, how can we tell which "he" Daniel 9:27 is talking about? The same way you can find out which "he" the Bible is referring to in the previous verses. By the context of the statements. It is Jesus Christ, because he did cause the sacrifice and oblation to cease in the midst of the 70th week. Jesus was cut off after the 69th week, which logically following is the 70th week. We find out, in the midst of the 70th week, the sacrifice and the oblation cease. So, Jesus died in the midst of the 70th week. And for the overspreading of abominations, he shall make it desolate.

You are misunderstanding the verse Veteran. 70 logically followed 69, and there is no Biblical proof to say otherwise.

Im not familiar with the doctrines of Ellen White.
Im sure that there are some who would agree with you veteran, but you wouldnt agree with them about all doctrine.

These are my own observations, due to my quest of trying to understand what it is that the Spirit is really saying to us.

Would you like to comment on what i said about the impossibility of Jesus being cut off at the end of the 69th week?
The cutting off of Jesus = the atonement of iniquity, decreed to happen in 70 weeks.

If you continue to search, and don't give up your search, you will find Him. And you shall hear the Lord's voice.

Stay blessed dear one :)

That is veterans blanket statement "Ellen White", that when cast also covers the reformers. I think it wise to follow the bread crumbs and you find that many who went threw the bloody breaking away from the RCC thought the same of Dan 9:27 Matthew Henry's was one. Any commentary near or before this time is the RCC.

I would prefer you call me a follower of Matthew Henry, I also believe it is about Christ not antichrist.
I would also like to point out the Jewish scribes and pharisees were blinded by this verse as well. Or they understood it yet sought to kill the the son of the vineyards owner, that they might receive his inheritance like the parable Jesus told.
Ether way the failure of properly interpreting this verse has dire consequences in the days of Jesus as well as today.

Matthew Henry

(v. 24-27). And it is the clearest, brightest, prophecy of the Messiah, in all the Old Testament.

He came to anoint the most holy, that is, himself, the Holy One, who was anointed (that is, appointed to his work and qualified for it) by the Holy Ghost, that oil of gladness which he received without measure, above his fellows; or to anoint the gospel-church, his spiritual temple, or holy place, to sanctify and cleanse it, and appropriate it to himself (Eph. 5:26 ), or to consecrate for us a new and living way into the holiest, by his own blood (Heb. 10:20 ), as the sanctuary was anointed, Ex. 30:25 , etc. He is called Messiah (v. 25, v. 26), which signifies Christ-Anointed (Jn. 1:41 ), because he received the unction both for himself and for all that are his. [5.] In order to all this the Messiah must be cut off, must die a violent death, and so be cut off from the land of the living, as was foretold, Isa. 53:8 . Hence, when Paul preaches the death of Christ, he says that he preached nothing but what the prophet said should come, Acts. 26:22, Acts. 26:23 . And thus it behoved Christ to suffer. He must be cut off, but not for himself —not for any sin of his own, but, as Caiaphas prophesied, he must die for the people, in our stead and for our good,—not for any advantage of his own (the glory he purchased for himself was no more than the glory he had before, Jn. 17:4, Jn. 17:5 ); no; it was to atone for our sins, and to purchase life for us, that he was cut off. [6.] He must
confirm the covenant with many. He shall introduce a new covenant between God and man, a covenant of grace, since it had become impossible for us to be saved by a covenant of innocence. This covenant he shall confirm by his doctrine and miracles, by his death and resurrection, by the ordinances of baptism and the Lord’s supper, which are the seals of the New Testament, assuring us that God is willing to accept us upon gospel-terms. His death made his testament of force, and enabled us to claim what is bequeathed by it. He confirmed it to the many, to the common people; the poor were evangelized, when the rulers and Pharisees believed not on him. Or, he confirmed it with many, with the Gentile world. The New Testament was not (like the Old) confined to the Jewish church, but was committed to all nations. Christ gave his life a ransom for many. [7.] He must cause the sacrifice and oblation to cease. By offering himself a sacrifice once for all he shall put an end to all the Levitical sacrifices, shall supercede them and set them aside; when the substance comes the shadows shall be done away. He causes all the peace-offerings to cease when he has made peace by the blood of his cross, and by it confirmed the covenant of peace and reconciliation. By the preaching of his gospel to the world, with which the apostles were entrusted, he took men off from expecting remission by the blood of bulls and goats, and so caused the sacrifice and oblation to cease. The apostle in his epistle to the Hebrews shows what a better priesthood, altar, and sacrifice, we have now than they had under the law, as a reason why we should hold fast our profession.

http://www.biblestud...iel/9.html?p=11

You know what's interesting, is I don't meet very many people who are educated about the bloody breakaway from the Roman Catholic Church.

Good post, and Amen.

 

[Rex]

You know what's interesting, is I don't meet very many people who are educated about the bloody breakaway from the Roman Catholic Church.

Good post, and Amen.

Thank you

If you trace back veterans interpretation of 9:27 you go threw Scofield, Darby and the the two Jesuits from the 16th century interpreting prophecy to steer critics away from Rome.

If I knew nothing other than these facts I would rather side with Matthew Henry.
The reason futurism is so prevalent to day is because of Scofields reference bible. Seminary schools if you want to think God uses schools to train teachers, anyway Scofield's reference bible is the equivalent of the catholic catechism. The guiding light, say isn't that a soap opera <_< :) If you get Gabriel's message to Daniel wrong you have no chance of properly understanding yet to be fulfilled prophesy. It will even effect the way you see the NT. Thats how dangerous it is, IMO of course :) .an example is Acts chapter 7 and 8 acts 7 marks the end of the 70th week "note" Jesus was seated at the right hand of God but in chapter 7 He is standing, He stood up", Acts 8 is Paul's conversion to take the message to the Gentiles. Its as plain as day to me. Stephen in 7 spoke one of the most powerful messages I have ever read, under the power of the HS, then he was stoned, The very God at work in Stephen stood up at the reception and stoning of Stephen> The first of Christs disciples to die.

I have to be like Jesus, to stand up, and take a look when brothers are dying for the truth, as they were in the 16 century.


But thank you again and my God bless you as well

 

[Guestman]

At Daniel 9, the angel Gabriel tells Daniel: "There are seventy weeks (of years) that have been determined upon your people and upon your holy city, in order to terminate the transgression, and to finish off sin, and to make atonement for error, and to bring in righteousness for times indefinite, and to imprint a seal upon vision and prophet, and to anoint the Holy of Holies. And you should know and have the insight that from the going forth of the word to restore and to rebuild Jerusalem until Mes&middot;si´ah the Leader, there will be seven weeks, also sixty-two weeks. She will return and be actually rebuilt, with a public square and moat, but in the straits of the times."(Daniel 9:24, 25)

This prophecy (of Daniel 9:24-27) is concerning the appearance of the "Messiah the Leader" or Christ and for Daniel's people and their "holy city", Jerusalem. For what purpose ? "In order to terminate the transgression, and to finish off sin, and to make atonement for error, and to bring in righteousness for times indefinite, and to imprint a seal upon vision and prophet, and to anoint the Holy of Holies."

Terminating "transgression", ' finishing off sin', making "atonement for error", bringing in "righteousness for times indefinite" and "to anoint the Holy of Holies" (this does not refer to the Most Holy compartment of the temple in Jerusalem, but rather to the heavenly sanctuary of God, the heavenly Most Holy, in the great spiritual temple of Jehovah), required perfect sacrificial blood. The animal sacrifices under the Mosaic Law could not accomplish this, but pointed out the need for a ransom. Even an imperfect human sacrifice was far from corresponding to what justice required, "soul for soul".(Ex 21:23; Lev 24:18)

Psalms 49 says: "Hear this, all you peoples....you sons of humankind as well as you sons of man.....Not one of them can by any means redeem even a brother, nor give to God a ransom for him; (And the redemption price of their soul is so precious that it has ceased to time indefinite)."(Ps 49:1, 2, 7, 8)

When did the prophecy of Daniel 9:24, 25 begin ? "From the going forth of the word to restore and to rebuild Jerusalem." When did this occur ? In 455 B.C.E., or "in the twentieth year of Ar&middot;ta&middot;xerx´es the king".(Neh 2:1) It was then that Nehemiah requested of king Artaxerxes to go to Jerusalem to "rebuild it" (Neh 2:5)

Over the course of 49 years or "seven weeks of years", the walls of Jerusalem were rebuilt, Nehemiah, with the help of Ezra and, afterward, others who may have succeeded them, worked "in the strait of the times".(Dan 9:25) There was difficulty from within and without. The book of Malachi, written after 443 B.C.E., decries the bad spiritual state into which the Jewish priesthood had by then fallen.

From “the going forth of the word to restore and to rebuild Jerusalem until Mes&middot;si´ah the Leader, there will be seven weeks, also sixty-two weeks”, or 69 “weeks of years”. This amounted to 483 years, that would bring to the year 29 C.E. when Jesus was baptized as the Messiah or Christ.(Matt 3:16)

Daniel 9:26 says: “And after the sixty-two weeks Mes&middot;si´ah will be cut off, with nothing for himself. And the city and the holy place the people of a leader that is coming will bring to their ruin. And the end of it will be by the flood. And until the end there will be war; what is decided upon is desolations.”

When was the Messiah or Jesus Christ “cut off with nothing for himself “ ? Daniel 9:27 says: “And he must keep the covenant in force for the many for one week; and at the half of the week he will cause sacrifice and gift offering to cease.” Jesus was put to death “at the half of the week” or in 33 C.E., causing “sacrifice and gift offering to cease.” Jesus provided the perfect sacrifice, a “corresponding ransom” (“corresponding ransom”, Greek an&middot;ti´ly&middot;tron, 1 Tim 2:5, 6) for the perfect man, Adam, before his defection. The Mosaic Law covenant was now fulfilled, void.

However, Daniel 9:27 also says that Jesus “must keep the covenant in force for the many for one week.” What covenant ? Not the Mosaic law covenant, for it was abolished with Jesus death.(Heb 8:13; Gal 3:24, 25) Rather, it was the Abrahamic covenant that Jehovah God established with Abraham concerning his “seed” blessing themselves at Genesis 22:18. The natural Jews were given up until 36 C.E. to be selected as members of the secondary “seed” of Abraham for the purpose of being “a kingdom and priests to our God.”(Rev 5:10)

Afterward, Gentiles or “people of the nations” (Rom 11:13) were invited to be members (Rom 9:6-8), being “grafted in”.(Rom 11:17) Jesus gave an illustration regarding this at Luke 14:16-24.

 

[veteran]

Who was the previous he that was just refered to, according to the second he. Is it the he that was spoken of in the previous verse? No, it is the Lord.

Your examples don't prove your point, simply because the number of objects, i.e. The LORD, and Adam are clearly established as having a conversation in those verses. Look at the Daniel 9:27 verse and tell me that's how it is! It's different. And that's why one must go back to pick up the subject of the "prince that shall come" in the previous Dan.9:26 verse. It is simple English grammar. Same thing in the other verses you tried to use, their subjects and objects are well established so as to know who is speaking, who is answering, and who is being spoken about. Not so in the Dan.9:27 verse, no specific prince mentioned, not Messiah, etc.


Now just WHY would The LORD leave the "he" of the Dan.9:27 verse hanging like that? The answer is very, very simple, and it depends upon the reader NOT STOPPING with the Daniel 9 chapter!!!

It's because The LORD FURTHER... defined the events and the "he" of THAT Dan.9:27 verse with the following...

Dan 11:21-24
21 And in his estate shall stand up a vile person, to whom they shall not give the honour of the kingdom: but he shall come in peaceably, and obtain the kingdom by flatteries.
22 And with the arms of a flood shall they be overflown from before him, and shall be broken; yea, also the prince of the covenant.
23 And after the league made with him he shall work deceitfully: for he shall come up, and shall become strong with a small people.
24 He shall enter peaceably even upon the fattest places of the province; and he shall do that which his fathers have not done, nor his fathers' fathers; he shall scatter among them the prey, and spoil, and riches: yea, and he shall forecast his devices against the strong holds, even for a time.
(KJV)

Dan 11:30-32
30 For the ships of Chittim shall come against him: therefore he shall be grieved, and return, and have indignation against the holy covenant: so shall he do; he shall even return, and have intelligence with them that forsake the holy covenant.
31 And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.
32 And such as do wickedly against the covenant shall he corrupt by flatteries: but the people that do know their God shall be strong, and do exploits.
(KJV)


But you have yet to REALIZE what Ellen White's own personal theories of misapplying the Dan.9:27 timing back to the timing of Christ's Ministry and crucifixion does to THAT above Dan.11 Scripture! It leaves those Daniel 11 events of that "vile person" and ending sacrifices and placing the abomination HANGING BY ITSELF!

That's what your false doctrines of Daniel's 70 weeks prophecy does, it DETACHES God's Word from Itself!

At Daniel 9, the angel Gabriel tells Daniel: "There are seventy weeks (of years) that have been determined upon your people and upon your holy city, in order to terminate the transgression, and to finish off sin, and to make atonement for error, and to bring in righteousness for times indefinite, and to imprint a seal upon vision and prophet, and to anoint the Holy of Holies. And you should know and have the insight that from the going forth of the word to restore and to rebuild Jerusalem until Mes&middot;si´ah the Leader, there will be seven weeks, also sixty-two weeks. She will return and be actually rebuilt, with a public square and moat, but in the straits of the times."(Daniel 9:24, 25)

This prophecy (of Daniel 9:24-27) is concerning the appearance of the "Messiah the Leader" or Christ and for Daniel's people and their "holy city", Jerusalem. For what purpose ? "In order to terminate the transgression, and to finish off sin, and to make atonement for error, and to bring in righteousness for times indefinite, and to imprint a seal upon vision and prophet, and to anoint the Holy of Holies."

Terminating "transgression", ' finishing off sin', making "atonement for error", bringing in "righteousness for times indefinite" and "to anoint the Holy of Holies" (this does not refer to the Most Holy compartment of the temple in Jerusalem, but rather to the heavenly sanctuary of God, the heavenly Most Holy, in the great spiritual temple of Jehovah), required perfect sacrificial blood. The animal sacrifices under the Mosaic Law could not accomplish this, but pointed out the need for a ransom. Even an imperfect human sacrifice was far from corresponding to what justice required, "soul for soul".(Ex 21:23; Lev 24:18)

Psalms 49 says: "Hear this, all you peoples....you sons of humankind as well as you sons of man.....Not one of them can by any means redeem even a brother, nor give to God a ransom for him; (And the redemption price of their soul is so precious that it has ceased to time indefinite)."(Ps 49:1, 2, 7, 8)

When did the prophecy of Daniel 9:24, 25 begin ? "From the going forth of the word to restore and to rebuild Jerusalem." When did this occur ? In 455 B.C.E., or "in the twentieth year of Ar&middot;ta&middot;xerx´es the king".(Neh 2:1) It was then that Nehemiah requested of king Artaxerxes to go to Jerusalem to "rebuild it" (Neh 2:5)

Over the course of 49 years or "seven weeks of years", the walls of Jerusalem were rebuilt, Nehemiah, with the help of Ezra and, afterward, others who may have succeeded them, worked "in the strait of the times".(Dan 9:25) There was difficulty from within and without. The book of Malachi, written after 443 B.C.E., decries the bad spiritual state into which the Jewish priesthood had by then fallen.

From “the going forth of the word to restore and to rebuild Jerusalem until Mes&middot;si´ah the Leader, there will be seven weeks, also sixty-two weeks”, or 69 “weeks of years”. This amounted to 483 years, that would bring to the year 29 C.E. when Jesus was baptized as the Messiah or Christ.(Matt 3:16)

Daniel 9:26 says: “And after the sixty-two weeks Mes&middot;si´ah will be cut off, with nothing for himself. And the city and the holy place the people of a leader that is coming will bring to their ruin. And the end of it will be by the flood. And until the end there will be war; what is decided upon is desolations.”

When was the Messiah or Jesus Christ “cut off with nothing for himself “ ? Daniel 9:27 says: “And he must keep the covenant in force for the many for one week; and at the half of the week he will cause sacrifice and gift offering to cease.” Jesus was put to death “at the half of the week” or in 33 C.E., causing “sacrifice and gift offering to cease.” Jesus provided the perfect sacrifice, a “corresponding ransom” (“corresponding ransom”, Greek an&middot;ti´ly&middot;tron, 1 Tim 2:5, 6) for the perfect man, Adam, before his defection. The Mosaic Law covenant was now fulfilled, void.

However, Daniel 9:27 also says that Jesus “must keep the covenant in force for the many for one week.” What covenant ? Not the Mosaic law covenant, for it was abolished with Jesus death.(Heb 8:13; Gal 3:24, 25) Rather, it was the Abrahamic covenant that Jehovah God established with Abraham concerning his “seed” blessing themselves at Genesis 22:18. The natural Jews were given up until 36 C.E. to be selected as members of the secondary “seed” of Abraham for the purpose of being “a kingdom and priests to our God.”(Rev 5:10)

Afterward, Gentiles or “people of the nations” (Rom 11:13) were invited to be members (Rom 9:6-8), being “grafted in”.(Rom 11:17) Jesus gave an illustration regarding this at Luke 14:16-24.

More Ellen White junk; she was a cult follower, and she formed a cult herself.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lH3MojgOIvk&feature=related

 

[Rex]

When are you going to admit the interpretation of Dan 9:27 is not a 7th day Idea.
It goes back to the reformation, and I can't prove it but probably before.
I wonder If Nomad can find some older documentation? I'm going to ask him.

This Ellen White crap is a pretty flimsy defense.
I'll say for you again Ellen White is a false prophet I know you know.
It has nothing to do with the subject.

 

[Spirit Covenant]

If there is a gap of two thousand years that are not talked about in scripture. Then it is more likely that the Lord used half a week with His ministry and the two prophets will use the last half of the week with their ministry. It fits the scriptures in Daniel plus the fact that the only time of great tribulation mentioned in scripture is three and a half years. There is not a single scripture that says seven years.

 

[veteran]

When are you going to admit the interpretation of Dan 9:27 is not a 7th day Idea.
It goes back to the reformation, and I can't prove it but probably before.
I wonder If Nomad can find some older documentation? I'm going to ask him.

This Ellen White crap is a pretty flimsy defense.
I'll say for you again Ellen White is a false prophet I know you know.
It has nothing to do with the subject.

Ellen White's teachings have EVERYTHING to do with this matter, because that's one of the main origins of trying to apply the Daniel 9:27 abomination of desolation events to Christ Jesus, just because of not being able understand the concept of timeline gaps in God's Word.

If there is a gap of two thousand years that are not talked about in scripture. Then it is more likely that the Lord used half a week with His ministry and the two prophets will use the last half of the week with their ministry. It fits the scriptures in Daniel plus the fact that the only time of great tribulation mentioned in scripture is three and a half years. There is not a single scripture that says seven years.

The thing in the Dan.9:27 verse that is NOT likely, is that "he" is not Christ that ends those sacrifices and places the "abomination of desolation".


Matt 24:15-18
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)
16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
(KJV)

The sacrifices ended in the Dan.9:27 verse is NOT the same event of the 70 A.D. destruction of Jerusalem by the Romans. The "prince that shall come" in the Dan.9:26 verse is about the Romans with Titus destroying Jerusalem, and it is ALSO an anti-type for the final coming Antichrist...


John 14:30
30 Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in Me.
(KJV)

Was our Lord Jesus speaking of the Roman general Titus coming in 70 A.D. to destroy Jerusalem? No. He was talking about Satan, the same entity He was talking about in John 12:31 and John 16:11.

You weren't supposed to just read down to the last verse of Daniel chapter 9 and then stop. The subject of the end of the sacrifice and placing of the abomination that maketh desolate continued all the way down to the end of the Daniel 12 chapter. And then it's picked up again by our Lord Jesus in His Olivet Discourse, and then covered more by Apostle Paul, and then again more given through Apostle John in Revelation.

 

[Retrobyter]

Shalom, Spirit Covenant.

If there is a gap of two thousand years that are not talked about in scripture. Then it is more likely that the Lord used half a week with His ministry and the two prophets will use the last half of the week with their ministry. It fits the scriptures in Daniel plus the fact that the only time of great tribulation mentioned in scripture is three and a half years. There is not a single scripture (in Revelation) that says seven years.

THANK YOU!!! That's what I've been saying!

...except that I believe the "tribulation," great or otherwise, IS the 2000 years, not the 3.5 years. That's just a matter of symantics.

 

[Raeneske]

Your examples don't prove your point, simply because the number of objects, i.e. The LORD, and Adam are clearly established as having a conversation in those verses. Look at the Daniel 9:27 verse and tell me that's how it is! It's different. And that's why one must go back to pick up the subject of the "prince that shall come" in the previous Dan.9:26 verse. It is simple English grammar. Same thing in the other verses you tried to use, their subjects and objects are well established so as to know who is speaking, who is answering, and who is being spoken about. Not so in the Dan.9:27 verse, no specific prince mentioned, not Messiah, etc.


Now just WHY would The LORD leave the "he" of the Dan.9:27 verse hanging like that? The answer is very, very simple, and it depends upon the reader NOT STOPPING with the Daniel 9 chapter!!!

It's because The LORD FURTHER... defined the events and the "he" of THAT Dan.9:27 verse with the following...

Dan 11:21-24
21 And in his estate shall stand up a vile person, to whom they shall not give the honour of the kingdom: but he shall come in peaceably, and obtain the kingdom by flatteries.
22 And with the arms of a flood shall they be overflown from before him, and shall be broken; yea, also the prince of the covenant.
23 And after the league made with him he shall work deceitfully: for he shall come up, and shall become strong with a small people.
24 He shall enter peaceably even upon the fattest places of the province; and he shall do that which his fathers have not done, nor his fathers' fathers; he shall scatter among them the prey, and spoil, and riches: yea, and he shall forecast his devices against the strong holds, even for a time.
(KJV)

Dan 11:30-32
30 For the ships of Chittim shall come against him: therefore he shall be grieved, and return, and have indignation against the holy covenant: so shall he do; he shall even return, and have intelligence with them that forsake the holy covenant.
31 And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.
32 And such as do wickedly against the covenant shall he corrupt by flatteries: but the people that do know their God shall be strong, and do exploits.
(KJV)


But you have yet to REALIZE what Ellen White's own personal theories of misapplying the Dan.9:27 timing back to the timing of Christ's Ministry and crucifixion does to THAT above Dan.11 Scripture! It leaves those Daniel 11 events of that "vile person" and ending sacrifices and placing the abomination HANGING BY ITSELF!

That's what your false doctrines of Daniel's 70 weeks prophecy does, it DETACHES God's Word from Itself!



More Ellen White junk; she was a cult follower, and she formed a cult herself.

This information does not come from Ellen White, so you can continue to post the same video over and over again. You aren't preaching any truth. When we expose the errors in your 7 year Tribulation theory, you scream Ellen White. That is not a defense. There is no defense in scripture for your belief. If we wanted to seriously play the game of "where does this come from" You'd learn that the true interpretation came from the reformers. The theory in which you believe, is a false prophecy, which was generated to get the heat of Roman Catholocism. Killing Protestants would never shut the Protestants up, it would only make them grow stronger. Thus, false prophecy was formed to end the seperation, and get you right back under their ranks. Veteran, we are family, all are part of the human family. So in my message, I will not leave any hatred, but the stern simple truth must be preached. You have fallen hook-line and sinker for their views. It's fine if it's your choice, but you need to know where it comes from. It has not truth in it, and that's why me, and countless others have stated to you, there is not a single scriptural place to prove the 2000 year insertion. It is a manmade insertion. As for you and Ellen White, i'll let you decide what to do with that. I gave you a very specific question, and you did not answer it on the other topic, regarding a conditional prophecy. All you did was post a 56 minute video.

Now, as to what I posted, it does very well prove my point. Adam and the Lord were having an established conversation. In Daniel 9, it is established, that the verse previously was referring to the Messiah's acts, and then the prince. It then switches back to the Messiah with the next he. This is just the syntax of the Bible, it is referring back to our Lord and Saviour.

You may hang onto the 7 year tribulation if you wish. I'm tired of arguing about it.

 

[veteran]

This information does not come from Ellen White, so you can continue to post the same video over and over again. You aren't preaching any truth. When we expose the errors in your 7 year Tribulation theory, you scream Ellen White. That is not a defense. There is no defense in scripture for your belief. If we wanted to seriously play the game of "where does this come from" You'd learn that the true interpretation came from the reformers. The theory in which you believe, is a false prophecy, which was generated to get the heat of Roman Catholocism. Killing Protestants would never shut the Protestants up, it would only make them grow stronger. Thus, false prophecy was formed to end the seperation, and get you right back under their ranks. Veteran, we are family, all are part of the human family. So in my message, I will not leave any hatred, but the stern simple truth must be preached. You have fallen hook-line and sinker for their views. It's fine if it's your choice, but you need to know where it comes from. It has not truth in it, and that's why me, and countless others have stated to you, there is not a single scriptural place to prove the 2000 year insertion. It is a manmade insertion. As for you and Ellen White, i'll let you decide what to do with that. I gave you a very specific question, and you did not answer it on the other topic, regarding a conditional prophecy. All you did was post a 56 minute video.

Now, as to what I posted, it does very well prove my point. Adam and the Lord were having an established conversation. In Daniel 9, it is established, that the verse previously was referring to the Messiah's acts, and then the prince. It then switches back to the Messiah with the next he. This is just the syntax of the Bible, it is referring back to our Lord and Saviour.

You may hang onto the 7 year tribulation if you wish. I'm tired of arguing about it.

The video link I posted is from two folks that were members of Ellen White's followers that formed the Seventh Day Adventist organization. They testify that they were members raised in that group, and had held specific posts working for the organization.

And there is EVERY defense for a 7 year period in the Daniel 9:27 verse. That's what each symbolic 'week' of the 70 weeks prophecy given Daniel equals. The Dan.9:27 verse is specific about a final "one week" period, and it equals 7 years per the accounting of the two previous periods of Dan.9:25-26. Anyone arguing against that point has lost their mind and are instead 'drunken' with men's doctrines... as you are. Yet you still have a little time to come out of all that mess. It's up to you.

 

[Spirit Covenant]

The thing in the Dan.9:27 verse that is NOT likely, is that "he" is not Christ that ends those sacrifices and places the "abomination of desolation". in


Matt 24:15-18
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)
16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
(KJV)

The sacrifices ended in the Dan.9:27 verse is NOT the same event of the 70 A.D. destruction of Jerusalem by the Romans. The "prince that shall come" in the Dan.9:26 verse is about the Romans with Titus destroying Jerusalem, and it is ALSO an anti-type for the final coming Antichrist...


John 14:30
30 Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in Me.
(KJV)

Was our Lord Jesus speaking of the Roman general Titus coming in 70 A.D. to destroy Jerusalem? No. He was talking about Satan, the same entity He was talking about in John 12:31 and John 16:11.

You weren't supposed to just read down to the last verse of Daniel chapter 9 and then stop. The subject of the end of the sacrifice and placing of the abomination that maketh desolate continued all the way down to the end of the Daniel 12 chapter. And then it's picked up again by our Lord Jesus in His Olivet Discourse, and then covered more by Apostle Paul, and then again more given through Apostle John in Revelation.

The Roman general Titus was satan (the adversary of God) and as far as I know he was satan until the day he died. Those of the Jews that he destroyed in 70 AD were also satan because the Christians weren't there in Jerusalem at that time. All of the apostles except John had been martyred by then. The "He" in Dan.9:27 is definitely the Messiah. It also splits the seven and causes the gap for the two end time prophets to take up at the end.

Daniel 9
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease , and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate , even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate .

26 And after threescore and twoweeks shall Messiah be cut off , but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall comeshall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto theend of the war desolations are determined .

 

[veteran]

The Roman general Titus was satan (the adversary of God) and as far as I know he was satan until the day he died. Those of the Jews that he destroyed in 70 AD were also satan because the Christians weren't there in Jerusalem at that time. All of the apostles except John had been martyred by then. The "He" in Dan.9:27 is definitely the Messiah. It also splits the seven and causes the gap for the two end time prophets to take up at the end.

Daniel 9
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease , and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate , even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate .

26 And after threescore and twoweeks shall Messiah be cut off , but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall comeshall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto theend of the war desolations are determined .

You're dreaming.

Your argument defies the context of the Dan.9:27 in relation to the REST of the Book of Daniel. So there it is, the very thing I was talking about in my previous post with the 'deceived' who REFUSE to continue the Dan.9:27 events to the Dan.11 & 12 chapters, and then further to Christ's Own warning about the "abomination of desolation" in His Olivet discourse in Matt.24 and Mark 13.

Not only that, but even events given back in the Daniel 7 & 8 chapters involve that Dan.9:27 verse about that "he" being a FALSE ONE that makes a PACT in Jerusalem for 7 years, then breaks it in the middle of the 7 years, ends sacrifices and instead sets up the abomination idol that makes the temple desolate in false idol worship.

 

[tgwprophet]

Spirit Covenant wrote: " The Roman general Titus was satan (the adversary of God) "

Veteran Wrote: " You're dreaming. "

I hope the dreaming was in reference to Titus.... but, Where can I get these dreams? Is there a protocol needed? How will I remember them? However, besides the humor... I find this interesting!

Spirit Covenant wrote: " It also splits the seven and causes the gap for the two end time prophets to take up at the end. "
SC.. are you sure Trying to separate the 7 candlesticks representing the churches is an error. The 7 remain intact not separated. The 2 witnesses receive association to churches, if they do, after Arrmageddon and are not of the 7. They are of the Gentiles. See, the two witnesses are Gentile Christians and thusly proof the Gentile Christians are grafted unto the vine of the Jews.

 

[veteran]

Veteran Wrote: " You're dreaming. "

I hope the dreaming was in reference to Titus.... but, Where can I get these dreams? Is there a protocol needed? How will I remember them? However, besides the humor... I find this interesting!

That was not directed at you. It was to spirit covenant.

Leave the very subject of the Daniel 9:27 verse about the coming abomination of desolation and that false one there mentioned setting it up, and then... you'll be in that 'dream' state along with spirit covenant and others of that ilk.

 

[tgwprophet]

I knew it was directed at Spirit Covenant. He calls me full of hot air and tooting my own horn,, then writes this...lol I find it amusing that he would think Satan would allow himself to be such other people with none of his beauty edifying the body he possessed. When he ( Satan ) emerges from the inner-sanctum with him being adorned of his beauty, my point will be understood.

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Spirit Covenant, I am here to teach, share and learn, so if you think my understanding is off course, don't just say I am full of hot air and tooting y own horn. show where my errors are and whyt they are errors with out the use of DOPE.. Denial withOut Proof or Evidence.