Five reasons why you aren't a "true" Christian - Are you toast?

[Lambano]

 

[JohnDB]

A man made test.....it cannot compete with Jesus's test.

Because the Pharisees passed all man-made tests of faithfulness to God with flying colors. However....Jesus says " Away from me you doers of iniquity, I never knew you"

And most certainly the Pharisees had a track record of following the Law. If you wanted to know what a faithful follower of God looked like they were the epitome of lives that followed all the rules of being faithful to God.

 

[St. SteVen]

spirit children are free from eternal damnation...

What about everyone else?

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[St. SteVen]

A deceived Universalist, who does not trust the Bible, (too many errors he believes).... is accusing Christians of "falling for false doctrine"

A.) That's Rich.

What were your results on the quiz in post #1? Are you toast?

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[St. SteVen]

New topic:

The Got Jesus? T-shirt - Surprising response

I encountered a couple this week. The man was wearing a Got Jesus? T-shirt. My wife and I had just been to a Rend Collective Christmas concert the night before. So I asked the man if he had heard of the Rend Collective. He said, "No." I pointed to his Got Jesus T-shirt as an explanation for why...

www.christianityboard.com

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[Ritajanice]

What about everyone else?

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I can’t answer for God my friend.

Only he has the answer.

 

[St. SteVen]

I can’t answer for God my friend.

Only he has the answer.

The church is very vocal about the subject. Why would you shrug it off?

The changing perception of hell. - How do you define it?

Even very by-the-book Christians are modifying their views on hell, or the afterlife. As the previous trend for fire-and-brimstone preaching has all but gone the way of the dinosaur. Leaning toward a more personalized stance on "eternal separation from God". (whatever that means to you) -...

www.christianityboard.com

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[Behold]

What about everyone else?

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Everyone else is here.

John 3:36

 

[St. SteVen]

Everyone else is here.

John 3:36

Is that the Bad News of the Gospel?

Countless billions have never heard.

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[Ritajanice]

The church is very vocal about the subject. Why would you shrug it off?

The changing perception of hell. - How do you define it?

Even very by-the-book Christians are modifying their views on hell, or the afterlife. As the previous trend for fire-and-brimstone preaching has all but gone the way of the dinosaur. Leaning toward a more personalized stance on "eternal separation from God". (whatever that means to you) -...

www.christianityboard.com

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Because I ain’t God.neither are they.

 

[St. SteVen]

Because I ain’t God.neither are they.

You pretend to be neutral, but your posts support eternal conscious torment.
Maybe you are God after all?

Ritajanice said:
spirit children are free from eternal damnation...

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[Ritajanice]

You pretend to be neutral, but your posts support eternal conscious torment.
Maybe you are God after all?

Ritajanice said:
spirit children are free from eternal damnation...

[

Don’t start accusing me of pretending!




Hehehehexx,


Who knows what happens when one is dying..I bet many come to the Lord that way, do you believe that?

I certainly do,

 

[St. SteVen]

Who knows what happens when one is dying..I bet many come to the Lord that way, do you believe that?

I certainly do,

Yes. There are lots of testimonies to that effect.
But they are mostly from the western world where there is Christian influence.

Imagine dying in a remote village deep in China somewhere.



[

 

[Behold]

Is that the Bad News of the Gospel?

Countless billions have never heard.

Do you recall Jonah, in the OT?

God had Him go to Nineveh, against Jonah's will...

So, we see that Calvinism and TULIP.... has failed to pre-destine Jonah's FREE-will, because John Calvinism is a Cross Denying Lie.
And people who teach it are the same...

Now what im showing you is....this..

God wills that all come to Salvation, so, God will find a way to reveal Jesus to you......even if you live on the back side of Mars, in a space suit.

See, you have no real faith in anything but., "well, this book said" and "that scholar wrote".. and that is why you are.. a Hebrews 13:9... "tossed" (KJV)...and have nothing but "opinion".... and because of this, when you read .. "with God all things are possible".. You think.. "well, its not possible for God to get the Message of Jesus to everyone"...

A.) Guess again @St. SteVen

 

[GodsGrace]

Jesus didnt come to the Body of Christ, as there was no Body of Christ until The Cross of Christ birthed it..

Good afternoon Behold...
I can't remember coming across this idea before....but I'll give my understanding of the NT.

Right. Jesus didn't come to the Body....HE IS the body and it became "alive", I'd say, while He was still preaching and some believed Him.
Maybe this could be debated to be put off till after His death when He becomes the testator of the New Covenant, but I certainly am not the one to debate this.

EVEN the Jews could be part of this Body.
In fact, the first Christians WERE JEWS....so your statement is really confusing to me.

So, Jesus was teaching only the Jews... "the house of Israel".. during His 3.5 yrs of ministry.

Ah. OK.
So let me say this:
In Jesus beginning ministry He DID state that He came for the Jews....to fulfil prophecy.
He realized, after dealing with the attitude from the Pharisees, Saducees and Scribes --- basically all parts of the Jewish religion....
that they would not accept His teachings....they did not accept His authority, although some disciples did, as per the verse that He spoke with authority.

In John Jesus states that He has other sheep He must go to.
this is my reason for stating that, originally, He came for the Jews only and that His teachings would go out to the whole world...
as the Abrahamic Covenant declared would happen through the House of David....the Davidic Covenant.

Later, after The Cross of Christ birthed the CHURCH.. then Jesus called Paul to deliver to the world.. "The Gospel" and to deliver to the "body of Christ".. .Paul's Doctrine.
So, Paul's Doctrine, is Jesus's doctrine to the NT CHURCH.........Including the "Gospel of the Grace of God".

Paul did teach the gentiles and Peter was teaching the Jews.
I could agree with the above statement about Paul being given authority to preach to the gentiles.
What you were saying before sounds a little different...
Sorry, but this is new to me and I'm not sure I'm understanding.

Paul is writing to the new church.. you mean the NT church....the Institution.
BUT there is only ONE BODY...and we all belong to it and Paul's teaching is ALSO for EVERYONE in the Body....
It was ALSO for the Jews of that time.
Jesus and Paul taught the same to ALL people....
I don't see a difference in teaching. and the teaching was for all NOT JUST the gentiles.

Jesus's Teaching, before He died, was to the Jews... to the "house of Israel".

Agreed,,,but I'd add that He realized before the cross that His teaching would have to go to the whole world.
Literally.
Matthew 28:19

After He died, He chose Paul to deliver "Church Doctrine" to the Christians, as this had not been given when Jesus was alive, as there was no Church, no Christianity, until Acts 2.
So, After THAT, .. Paul was called by Jesus to deliver "The Gospel".. and "Church Doctrine.

Again,,,I think you're referring to the church,,,NOT the Church (the body).
If so,,,then I agree.

Indeed the Christian Jews were banished from the synagogue...thus making it necessary to establish a new church...institution.

The Cross of Christ, birthed the NT Church, before Paul was called to teach it.
At first, Paul was helping Christians to be murdered.. but that changed because Jesus dealt with Paul, supernaturally, and Paul became the "Apostle to the Gentiles' in the "time of the Gentiles".. and that is when God is dealing specifically with Gentiles...
That began with The Cross, and continues until this very day.
That is why the "body of Christ".. is mostly gentiles, and not Jews.

OK.
I'm thinking.

How about this:
Paul spent years in "the desert" before he went to the Apostles in Jerusalem.
What was he doing there?
Based on my own understanding...which could be wrong and I hate to post opinion....
but I believe Paul, an intelligent Jew as you stated above,,,,was trying to make sense out of the cross.
It didn't go the way it was meant to.....
HOW to explain the shame of the cross?
We must admit that Paul came up with Christian theology....Romans covers it well.
Just a thought....your comment would be appreciated.

Paul taught a lot that Jesus never taught , because Jesus was not dealing with Gentiles, when He was down here.
So, Paul was called to the "gentiles" who make up most of the "Church", and His Doctrine is for the Church... the "body of Christ"..

Paul is the "Apostle TO the Gentiles'"....

OK
I know this. No need to try to convince me.
What I'm not sure about re your idea is:
Are you stating that Paul's teachings were different from Jesus' teachings?
If so, you're going to have to give a couple of examples.
Maybe you did already...can't remember.

Well, one... is The Gospel that Paul Teaches, is based on the Cross of Christ, and the Resurrection.
Jesus could not have taught that to Jews during His ministry...., but after He was back in Heaven, and the Holy Spirit was given in Acts 2.. .and then Later Paul was called............all this is a Transition from the OT to the NT.. .from the Old Covenant to the NEW Covenant.
Its God now dealing with the Gentiles.......vs the OT where He only dealt with the Jews.

I agree with the transition from the Mosaic (old) Covenant to the New Covenant....
but then I'd have to ask what you think the big difference is..especially in view of the fact that I know your attitude toward works.

The Cross of Christ is "God reconciling the World to Himself" as Paul teaches in 2 Corin 5:19.......and Jesus was not doing that, when Jesus was walking around, only dealing with the Jews.

Problem: God was always reconciling the world to Himself.
Man was always saved by faith.
So it does bring up the question as to the why of the cross....
which I addressed just above....Paul came up with the why.

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[GodsGrace]

@Behold

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The Gospel of the Grace of God.. that is "We preach Christ Crucified"... "the Preaching of the Cross is the Power of God.. .unto Salvation, unto everyone who Believes"..

So, Jesus could not have taught this GOSPEL to the JEWS as He was not Crucified. And after He was risen from the Dead..., He was only seen by His Apostles and by others who were BELIEVERS.

This goes to the difference between the Old and New Covenants.
Let's see what you believe the difference to be....

Yes, that verse was given by Paul to Born again Christians, in the Galatians Church.

Jesus could not have given that to Jews. during his 3.5 yrs in ministry to the Jews.....as He had not Hung on The Cross and died and was resurrected.. to create the "body of Christ".. yet.

Agreed.

We are already forgiven., always.... so from this place of always being forgiven... we forgive.

It's deeper than that,,,but OK.
We should at least think as Jesus thought...
or act as he acted.

Whereas those in the OT, were not Christians forgiven. .. as there was no Cross of Christ to do it for them.. so, they were told... "to forgive to be forgiven".

Interesting. But I can't think of this right now and I'm not sure I could add anything to what I already know (which isn't a lot).

Now, we are eternally forgiven because of The Cross of Christ...

But weren't persons forgiven in the OT?

Unbelievers are not.. so, they are under the Law, and have to do that......but, they are still not forgiven..
Jesus said...They are still in their sins, and will die in them, no matter if they have forgiven everyone or not....
They can forgive everyone till they die, and they die and go to Hell, having forgiven everyone... because they have not been forgiven by God based on Trusting in Jesus.

Agreed. It's always the saved when we speak within the NT and its teachings.

We are already forgiven, as otherwise we would not be Christians, and we would not be going to Heaven.




The born again forgive.... because the Christian is known by their LOVE...
So, we forgive because God forgave us., and this is Love being shown.
This is.. "do good to those who enjoy harming you".....

Its "God is good to everyone... the just and the unjust, the sinner and the Saint"..

So, we are to reflect God's love by loving those who do not deserve it, exactly as Jesus laid down His life for those who hated Him.

That is God's Love as Christ on the Cross loving the worst of all ......because God is Love.

Agreed.

WE are shown mercy because Christ has created this situation, for us, by dying for our sin.
WE are always forgiven, because of The Cross.
We the Believers are not shown mercy because we are good.....we are shown mercy because Jesus has created God's "blood atonement" 'new Covenant".. eternal relationship between God and us, which allows God to always and forever be merciful to His Sons/Daughters "in Christ".

Agreed.

God's mercy for the believer is not based on our behavior, its based on The Cross, exactly as our Salvation is based on The Cross of Christ.



Jesus said we will be judged by "every idle word"...

Yes Behold....but if we're judged by every idle word....do you not think we'll be judged by our behavior?
Of course we will. Love will be the judge. Love behaves well.
But works will not save in themselves.
Faith plus good works will save.
But this is another topic and I know we won't agree.

And after we are dead, or are raptured then our works we did for Jesus will be judged. at the "bema seat".
But our Judgement due us.. for our life of sin...... fell on Jesus, and He has already been judged for us...

"Jesus is the one time........ETERNAL Sacrifice... for our sin"..

Agreed.
But you capitalized ETERNAL...so another topic I wont' get into right now.
I'd rather not discuss works or eternal salvation here,,,but the original topic you brought up...
not sure how we got to the other 2 topics.....oh, I know...it's your PASSION!

 

[JohnDB]

I'm toast because I binge.

I don't study an hour every day....
But I get roughly 16-20 hrs a week.

I don't get to witness often anymore because I'm retarded....er I mean retired. So I don't have access to people like I used to.

I miss a few services our church offers....but I am there most Wednesdays and every Sunday. I'm usually missing one a week....but I'm already there 2x a week.

So according to the test I'm toast.

 

[Behold]

Right. Jesus didn't come to the Body...

The "body of Christ" is the "bride of Christ" = is the NT Church... who are "the Temple of the Holy Spirit".

This "body" did not exist.... before Jesus died on The Cross and rose from the dead.

In John Jesus states that He has other sheep He must go to.

= Gentiles.

But He didnt go to them....as He came for the "house of Israel" and they crucified Him, and now He is in Heaven.
So, He sent Paul.. who is "the apostle to the Gentiles".. .and we are in the "time of the Gentiles" that started with the Cross, and ends, when the Trib starts.

Sorry, but this is new to me and I'm not sure I'm understanding.

Jesus's earthly ministry was to the Jews, so, the 11 Apostles were called to Help.
Judas was : "one of you is a Devil".. Jesus said............. so, he is a special case.

And now, Paul is "the apostle to the gentiles".. in the "time of the Gentiles" (we are in it)......Paul was called as the "apostle to the gentiles'.... after Jesus was back in Heaven.
Paul is the only Apostle who is specifically called to the Gentles... regarding teaching the "church"... what is called "Paul's doctrine" or "Pauline theology".

I'll show you some of it, down below.....

Paul is writing to the new church.. you mean the NT church....the Institution.
BUT there is only ONE BODY...and we all belong to it and Paul's teaching is ALSO for EVERYONE in the Body....
It was ALSO for the Jews of that time.

The OT is for the Jews, as God was only dealing with them...

Jesus came to the Jews.... and His Cross, = separated the Holy Veil, and divided the OT, from the NT....Divided the Old Covenant from the New Covenant.

The OT is the old covenant,.... and the NT< is the "blood atonement" that is strictly related to The Cross of Christ., and it began "the time of the Gentiles" and Paul is the only "Apostle to the gentiles'...

Paul calls his gospel..>"MY Gospel" 3x in the NT..
He taught it to the other 11, in Acts 15, that is 15 yrs after Jesus is back in Heaven.

Paul spent years in "the desert" before he went to the Apostles in Jerusalem.
What was he doing there?

Jesus led him there for 3 yrs, to "reveal" NT Doctrine....including "the Gospel of the Grace of God".

Paul said of that Doctrine, and of this Gospel.....>>"I received this from NO MAN... but only from Jesus Himself" by "revelation".

Are you stating that Paul's teachings were different from Jesus' teachings?

Paul teaches... the "Body of Christ"...

"Gifts of the Spirit"...... the 9 Spiritual Gifts.

"The Gospel of the Grace of God"

"How to choose a Deacon"

"How to choose a Pastor"

"How to start and build a NT "Local Church"

"How to understand ''"One Flesh" as "Marriage"

How to "rightly divide" the word of God

How to deal with your wife or husband

How to "preach the word to the Gentiles"

How to "walk in the Spirit"

Hot to not "fall from Grace" and how to understand what that means.

How to understand "The Cross of Christ"

How to understand "made free from Sin"

How to understand "the imputed Righteousness of Christ"

How to understand "the Blood Atonement"

How to know which Gifts of the Spirit to pray for, to receive

How to understand you have become "the Temple of the Holy Spirit"

How to understand "Grace through Faith"

How to understand "having become the Righteousness of God in Christ"..

see all those?

Jesus never taught any of those to the JEWS.. during His ministry to the "house of Israel"... as there was no Body of Christ.....//no "NT Church"..no "Christians".... to teach all this to.......
But later, once the NT Church was created by The Cross and Resurrection... then Paul was called into the Ministry.. as the "apostle TO the Gentiles"... "in the time of the Gentiles".. to give to us who are the "body of Christ".. the "NT Church"...= all His Doctrine, and i only listed some of it, for you.

Problem: God was always reconciling the world to Himself.

God could not have been reconciling the world to Himself in the OT, as He was only dealing with the Jews.

John 3:16, is not found in the OT, as Jesus's Cross.... that is the "Reconciliation."

2 Corin 5:19

 

[Behold]

@Behold

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It's deeper than that,,,but OK.
We should at least think as Jesus thought...
or act as he acted.

Paul says that the way you become more like Christ is to "die to self".

Several ways to do that, and the most important, in the context of Salvation, is to die to : Self Righteousness.

What is that?

Self righteousness sounds like this.......>"Yes, i KNOW that Jesus Saved me.......but now i have to ......."

See that "have to"?

That is "Self Righteousness".

Self righteousness is any type of mindset whereby you are trying to earn or keep your salvation, because once you are trying to perform for it, or try to keep it.......... then you are now on the Cross and Jesus has been replaced by your Self Righteousness.
That is broken faith.

Here is how that sounds.......>>"Jesus started my Salvation, and now i have to keep myself saved by doing, doing, doing,...."

See that "doing"?
That just Replaced Jesus's Salvation. = Self Righteousness = Trying to make myself right, with God.

What is interesting about that, is that is how you "fall from Grace".. and in fact, that is exactly what an unbeliever is trying to do... as if you ask them, they'll say..>>"well, as long as i do this and dont do that, then God will have me after i die"

That is exactly the broken faith, performing to try to be accepted by God that a CHRISTian is doing who is "fallen from Grace" and "in the Flesh".

But weren't persons forgiven in the OT?

Once a year., so, it was not eternal.
Whereas .. "Jesus is the ONE TIME... Eternal Sacrifice for Sin"...

See, He does not have to keep dying for us, over and over.

"It is FINISHED".. Jesus said from The Cross.. and that is why .. 2000 yrs later, His Shed Blood and Death, saved you and me.
And that same, is keeping us saved, forever.

Yes Behold....but if we're judged by every idle word....do you not think we'll be judged by our behavior?

What God does is look inside you to see why you are doing what you are doing, and He will correct that as needed.
God looks at the Heart Motive, and assesses you.

Now, there is a spiritual law that was not nullified by the Cross, and that is..

A.) "Sowing and reaping"... so,.......... when we do... we get..
In other words you reap what you sow.........and that is "sowing and reaping"...

If you do bad, you harvest a recompense, later......but that is not God judging you.. that is "reaping what you have sown"..

 

[Ritajanice]

The only way we can become more Christ like, is by the power within our spirit.

You cannot in your own strength become more Christ like.

That’s why you must be Born Again by Gods Holy Spirit, who penetrates our spirit and gives birth to it, our spirit is in Christ.

Only then can the sanctification process begin..he’s at work in our heart/ spirit ,as we are partakers Of the divine nature..we were gifted supernatural faith = by divine heart revelation.our spirit has been reborn..it’s now in Christ..,we have living faith / trust in God, as were Alive in our spirit.l
Born of God, His seed remains in our spirit permanently.