Five reasons why you aren't a "true" Christian - Are you toast?

[St. SteVen]

Answer the questions with YES or NO.
20 points for each question answered with YES. Score 100 points or you are toast.
Or at least you will have a TO DO list to work on.

1) You have the right doctrine and can prove it. - YES or NO?
2) You read your Bible and pray for one hour every day. - YES or NO?
3) You are winning souls for Christ every week. - YES or NO?
4) You never miss a church service. - YES or NO?
5) You give financially to the church WAY beyond your means. - YES or NO?

20 points for each question answered with YES. Score 100 points or you are toast.
Or at least you will have a TO DO list to work on.

How did you do? Are these the right questions?

[

 

[GodsGrace]

Answer the questions with YES or NO.
20 points for each question answered with YES. Score 100 points or you are toast.
Or at least you will have a TO DO list to work on.

1) You have the right doctrine and can prove it. - YES or NO?
2) You read your Bible and prayer for one hour every day. - YES or NO?
3) You are winning souls for Christ every week. - YES or NO?
4) You never miss a church service. - YES or NO?
5) You give financially to the church WAY beyond your means. - YES or NO?

20 points for each question answered with YES. Score 100 points or you are toast.
Or at least you will have a TO DO list to work on.

How did you do? Are these the right questions?

[

Do I get a share of the royalties?

Here we go:

1. YES
2. NO
3. PROBABLY NOT.....BUT WE CAN'T REALLY KNOW.
4. NO
5. NO


BUT
They're not the right questions silly boy.

 

[Behold]

Answer the questions with YES or NO.
20 points for each question answered with YES. Score 100 points or you are toast.
Or at least you will have a TO DO list to work on.

1) You have the right doctrine and can prove it. - YES or NO?
2) You read your Bible and prayer for one hour every day. - YES or NO?
3) You are winning souls for Christ every week. - YES or NO?
4) You never miss a church service. - YES or NO?
5) You give financially to the church WAY beyond your means. - YES or NO?

20 points for each question answered with YES. Score 100 points or you are toast.
Or at least you will have a TO DO list to work on.

How did you do? Are these the right questions?

[

What you are describing is the Discipleship of a person , after they become a Christian.

Whereas the becoming a Christian, is a sinner, trusting in Christ for the first time, and God takes their Faith, and "counts it as (Christ's) Righteousness" on their behalf... forgives their sin, and gives them the New Birth, as born again.. "in Christ".

And now, having become a CHRISTian.. .. they are to learn some things, and do some things and effect a lifestyle that represents who they have become as a Son/Daughter of God.

They are not expected to wake up, the day after they are born again, and know much about it.
After all, it was just yesterday they were living in sin and loving it.
But by the end of yr 2.. if they are still a Hebrews 6:1... diaper baby, then they are so very fallen behind.. and more then likely by then, a cult has their mind.
The Devil keeps an eye out for a new Convert, and that would be a new Christian or an older one, who He can deceive with some cult theology..........like Calvinism.........or Universalism.......and many others.

 

[GodsGrace]

What you are describing is the Discipleship of a person , after they become a Christian.

Whereas the becoming a Christian, is a sinner, trusting in Christ for the first time, and God takes their Faith, and "counts it as (Christ's) Righteousness" on their behalf... forgives their sin, and gives them the New Birth, as born again.. "in Christ".

And now, having become a CHRISTian.. .. they are to learn some things, and do some things and effect a lifestyle that represents who they have become as a Son/Daughter of God.

They are not expected to wake up, the day after they are born again, and know much about it.
After all, it was just yesterday they were living in sin and loving it.
But by the end of yr 2.. if they are still a Hebrews 6:1... diaper baby, then they are so very fallen behind.

But what about SS's list??
First of all I wouldn't say it's a correct list.
Second, most on this board wouldn't even agree with the fact that we MUST have certain beliefs to be defined a Christian.
If we're born again...we have a right relationship with God .... but
are we Christian?

 

[Behold]

But what about SS's list??
First of all I wouldn't say it's a correct list.
Second, most on this board wouldn't even agree with the fact that we MUST have certain beliefs to be defined a Christian.
If we're born again...we have a right relationship with God .... but
are we Christian?

We became a Christian ""while we were yet a sinner... ""
So, we would not know all the "christianese" that we learn over time.......after we are become a Christian.

Lets say, you are my brand new convert,.... just born again yesterday...., and im discipling you, which would be the case.... so, i i would not let you go to any "christian forum" as these places will ruin your faith... They'll lead you into Calvinism, or similar. They'll lead you into CRAZY.

No, what i would do with you, is what i do with any student... in class or in life..... which is... we get you a real bible... and I give you study guides, and then you complete them, and then we go over it... for a while.. until you can teach it.
A couple of months.... every day..
And what im doing, is Hebrews 13:9........i'll get you genuinely established in God's Grace, as your core Theology, that is Paul's Doctrine.. to the point that you will have "worked out your salvation" and then you can rest assured that no cult will be able to drag you away from the light, into their nonsense. In Fact after the 2 months you'll know more Theology, practical and deep, then 90% of the other Christians in this world... And most importantly you'll have discovered Paul as your teacher for life... via the NT.

After that spiritual bootcamp, i'll become to you...." just "available"............... and now its up to you to keep studying and getting more light out of the NT, now that i have given you the KEYS so that you can receive it from God.

 

[Behold]

Is there a bonus?

1) You have the right doctrine and can prove it. - YES or NO?

There is only one correct Doctrine.

Paul's.

And He'll prove it by the Holy Spirit, if you study His Theology.

2) You read your Bible and prayer for one hour every day. - YES or NO?

I do both., but my Prayer, is sort of never ceasing..

What i mean is.......i usually have a conversation going on with the scriptures, or with God or Jesus, ....its more like an awareness of Them.. and im often reflecting on them... or often thinking about them, or asking a question or making a complaint.

In other words.. there is "God stuff" going on in me, in my head, a LOT......a whole lot.

"Take everything to God, in prayer" is...>always have an awareness of God, in your head..... as if He is inside you, which happens to be the case., if the person is born again.

See, Prayer, is :.... " normal conversation with God and Christ, that includes worship and Praise"..

I do this quite a bit....Im thinking conversation with them......or i read the Scriptures, and listen, or think..
I also think in scriptures at times..... I rehearse them, also, in my head.

3) You are winning souls for Christ every week. - YES or NO?

A better way to understand that is .. = Leading unbelievers to faith in Christ, and that is not the same as the HS "bringing them to the knowledge of the truth"", but its connected.

See, you can't have "faith comes by hearing" unless you have something you are hearing that causes the HS to reveal what you are hearing as truth..........so that you can then BELIEVE IT.

4) You never miss a church service. - YES or NO?

The best answer to that is... to find a place you love to go to Church., and you'll go.
If you hate your church.. then stop going, as you are not doing them any good, and they are not doing you any good.
Find the right one....and watch a lot of TV services or Online services, in between.... and make sure the TV "Church" is built on Paul's theology, and not on anyone else's.

Also, If you become vital to the Church service, as an officer in the church, then you have to be there.
Are you in the Choir? Then show up... Don't be the dead wood.
Serving God IS more important than serving your job....However, In both cases be dependable.

5) You give financially to the church WAY beyond your means. - YES or NO?

Sometimes Daily, always weekly, and monthly.

Do i give more then i have on hand......well, that's not wise..., but i have more to give, because i give to God.

"behold what do you mean, "give to God"".

Well, that is what its all about....We are really just giving away God's money into lives., as its all His money..
WE just get to us it.

Reader, you dont own anything........You just get to use it., and if you use it correctly, God will give you more to use.....because its ALL HIS To give.

'well, the bank account has my name on it, not God's.""

Uh huh...

Are these the right questions?

your questions are only related to discipleship.........which is just self effort.

 

[GodsGrace]

We became a Christian ""while we were yet a sinner... ""
So, we would not know all the "christianese" that we learn over time.......after we are become a Christian.

OK. This is true.
But I think that @St. SteVen's thread would be addressed to pretty mature Christians that SHOULD know Christian doctrine.

Lets say, you are my brand new convert,.... just born again yesterday...., and im discipling you, which would be the case.... so, i i would not let you go to any "christian forum" as these places will ruin your faith... They'll lead you into Calvinism, or similar. They'll lead you into CRAZY.

I have to agree. We should not be learning about our faith from YouTube either.
If we don't know how to "weed out" incorrect information, I think total confusion will ensue.
I've heard some pretty odd ideas on these forums. (this is what I mean by doctrine having to be Christian).

As to discipiling.....
Do any churches disciple??
I went through discipleship for one year at a Nazarene church many years ago.
I can't say how much it helped me to understand my Christian faith.
It was not about doctrine but about how to live a Christian life with the help of God.
it also touched on doctrine...for example The Trichotomy of Man was there...and it helped so much to understand how man functions.
I always add this lesson to the kids I've been teaching....usually 5 to 7th graders. but I had to stop this year.

No, what i would do with you, is what i do with any student... in class or in life..... which is... we get you a real bible... and I give you study guides, and then you complete them, and then we go over it... for a while.. until you can teach it.
A couple of months.... every day..

Sounds good.
But you're going to teach me what YOU believe! (of course).
I don't believe OSAS is correct....
I think this is the problem the OP is bringing up.

And what im doing, is Hebrews 13:9.......

Hebrews 13:9
Right.
This is what the OP should be about.

.i'll get you genuinely established in God's Grace, as your core Theology, that is Paul's Doctrine..

Why do you call it Paul's doctrine?
Is it different from what Jesus taught?

to the point that you will have "worked out your salvation" and then you can rest assured that no cult will be able to drag you away from the light, into their nonsense. In Fact after the 2 months you'll know more Theology, practical and deep, then 90% of the other Christians in this world... And most importantly you'll have discovered Paul as your teacher for life... via the NT.

Interesting about cults.
I mean the idea that persons could be pulled into cults....
It's true, but
what about those that are in heretical groups that leave because they discover the truth?
It seems to work both ways.

After that spiritual bootcamp, i'll become to you...." just "available"............... and now its up to you to keep studying and getting more light out of the NT, now that i have given you the KEYS so that you can receive it from God.

I sure hope this is what you're doing Behold.
I don't have much luck with people here...most are staunch athesists.
I can only say what I need to say and the Holy Spirit will have to do the rest.

 

[GodsGrace]

Is there a bonus?



There is only one correct Doctrine.

Paul's.

And He'll prove it by the Holy Spirit, if you study His Theology.




I do both., but my Prayer, is sort of never ceasing..

What i mean is.......i usually have a conversation going on with the scriptures, or with God or Jesus, ....its more like an awareness of Them.. and im often reflecting on them... or often thinking about them, or asking a question or making a complaint.

In other words.. there is "God stuff" going on in me, in my head, a LOT......a whole lot.

"Take everything to God, in prayer" is...>always have an awareness of God, in your head..... as if He is inside you, which happens to be the case., if the person is born again.

See, Prayer, is :.... " normal conversation with God and Christ, that includes worship and Praise"..

I do this quite a bit....Im thinking conversation with them......or i read the Scriptures, and listen, or think..
I also think in scriptures at times..... I rehearse them, also, in my head.

You're the first person that I've read that understands prayer this way....which is how I understand it.
Most persons think of stopping everything, going someplace quiet and praying "formally".
This is what they mean by prayer.
To me it just means talking to God...just as you've explained.

A better way to understand that is .. = Leading unbelievers to faith in Christ, and that is not the same as the HS "bringing them to the knowledge of the truth"", but its connected.

See, you can't have "faith comes by hearing" unless you have something you are hearing that causes the HS to reveal what you are hearing as truth..........so that you can then BELIEVE IT.




The best answer to that is... to find a place you love to go to Church., and you'll go.
If you hate your church.. then stop going, as you are not doing them any good, and they are not doing you any good.
Find the right one....and watch a lot of TV services or Online services, in between.... and make sure the TV "Church" is built on Paul's theology, and not on anyone else's.

Also, If you become vital to the Church service, as an officer in the church, then you have to be there.
Are you in the Choir? Then show up... Don't be the dead wood.
Serving God IS more important than serving your job....However, In both cases be dependable.




Sometimes Daily, always weekly, and monthly.

Do i give more then i have on hand......well, that's not wise..., but i have more to give, because i give to God.

"behold what do you mean, "give to God"".

Well, that is what its all about....We are really just giving away God's money into lives., as its all His money..
WE just get to us it.

Reader, you dont own anything........You just get to use it., and if you use it correctly, God will give you more to use.....because its ALL HIS To give.

'well, the bank account has my name on it, not God's.""

Uh huh...



your questions are only related to discipleship.........which is just self effort.

 

[Behold]

Why do you call it Paul's doctrine?
Is it different from what Jesus taught?

Jesus didnt teach Paul's Doctrine, as Paul's Doctrine is for the Body of Christ, and the Jews whom Jesus dealt with were not the "Body of Christ".

The Jews who Jesus dealt with are not the New Testament "Church".. They are not the "Temple of the Holy Spirit".....They are not "born again".

So, what Jesus had for the "house of Israel" is not what Jesus gave to Paul, to give to the NT Church.

Here is an example.

Before The Cross, you have ....>>"If you dont forgive, neither will you be forgiven by God".

After The Cross....... you have.

"we forgive because we have been forgiven".

Paul's Doctrine is for the CHRISTIANS... and what Jesus was teaching the JEWS.....is for them.

Now, "all scripture is profitable"... but not all scripture is "Doctrine for the NT Church"...so, when you want that, you go to Paul, and His Theology.

 

[Behold]

You're the first person that I've read that understands prayer this way....which is how I understand it.

That is how to understand it.

We are the FAMILY of GOD, and God is "Daddy".

"God's Open door Policy".. "'come on in and Let me Help, let me love you.. you are mine"...

Most persons think of stopping everything, going someplace quiet and praying "formally".

And if they believe that they have to do that, to be heard by God, then its acting.

its interesting that believers pray to the ceiling to try to cause their prayer to go past the clouds, into the solar system, and somehow find God. "out there somewhere"..

When in Fact, we are "one with God " and He is in us,.

So, send your prayers there...

Dont be this one trying to sound sanctimonious...

"Oh Mighty Fount of Grace and Light
If they cans't but turn my way, and bend thy Holy Ear down, to accept my solemn partition"..

Really?
C'mon.

Here is a really popular Prayer that God answers millions of times today and tomorrow..


"please help".

To me it just means talking to God...just as you've explained.

God in your Head.
God in your Heart
All the time.

Not this one..

Q.) "When do you think about God"?

A.) "Christmas and Easter,..... and also when they pass the offering plate around and i think.. If God wasn't real then i would have to put any money in it".

 

[GodsGrace]

Jesus didnt teach Paul's Doctrine, as Paul's Doctrine is for the Body of Christ, and the Jews whom Jesus dealt with were not the "Body of Christ".

What do you mean that Jesus didn't teach Paul's doctrine?
Jesus came first!
Paul taught Jesus' doctrine.
Paul didn't start the new church...Jesus did.
Paul confirmed everything Jesus taught.
Could you think of something that was not confirmed?
I mean something that Paul taught that Jesus did not.

He did ADD and give detail to what Jesus taught...
but the original teaching was from our Lord.

The Jews who Jesus dealt with are not the New Testament "Church".. They are not the "Temple of the Holy Spirit".....They are not "born again".

Gosh Behold.
THERE IS NOW NO JEW OR GENTILE OR FREE OR SLAVE....
All believers are in the Body of Christ.
There is but one body....not two.

So, what Jesus had for the "house of Israel" is not what Jesus gave to Paul, to give to the NT Church.

Here is an example.

Before The Cross, you have ....>>"If you dont forgive, neither will you be forgiven by God".

After The Cross....... you have.

"we forgive because we have been forgiven".

Is it so different? If we don't forgive, neither will you be forgiven.
If we don't forgive, we somehow are an impediment to God forgiving.
I don't really understand this 100% but we are asked by Jesus to forgive and He certainly understands this more than we ever will.
It's like being judged with mercy if we show mercy.
Jesus said we will be judged as we judge so as not to be too hard on persons since we don't know their situation.


We forgive because we have been forgiven...
Isn't this the same as above?
If we show mercy...we will be shown mercy.
If we show love through forgiveness. then we will be shown mercy through forgiveness.

I just don't think it's 2 totally different ideas.

Are we supposed to ignore everything Jesus said?

Paul's Doctrine is for the CHRISTIANS... and what Jesus was teaching the JEWS.....is for them.

Now, "all scripture is profitable"... but not all scripture is "Doctrine for the NT Church"...so, when you want that, you go to Paul, and His Theology.

I can't agree.
You're splitting up Christianity...
and it has enough problems.

 

[Behold]

What do you mean that Jesus didn't teach Paul's doctrine?
Jesus came first!

Jesus didnt come to the Body of Christ, as there was no Body of Christ until The Cross of Christ birthed it..

So, Jesus was teaching only the Jews... "the house of Israel".. during His 3.5 yrs of ministry.


Later, after The Cross of Christ birthed the CHURCH.. then Jesus called Paul to deliver to the world.. "The Gospel" and to deliver to the "body of Christ".. .Paul's Doctrine.
So, Paul's Doctrine, is Jesus's doctrine to the NT CHURCH.........Including the "Gospel of the Grace of God".

Paul taught Jesus' doctrine.

Jesus's Teaching, before He died, was to the Jews... to the "house of Israel".

After He died, He chose Paul to deliver "Church Doctrine" to the Christians, as this had not been given when Jesus was alive, as there was no Church, no Christianity, until Acts 2.
So, After THAT, .. Paul was called by Jesus to deliver "The Gospel".. and "Church Doctrine.

Paul didn't start the new church...Jesus did.

The Cross of Christ, birthed the NT Church, before Paul was called to teach it.
At first, Paul was helping Christians to be murdered.. but that changed because Jesus dealt with Paul, supernaturally, and Paul became the "Apostle to the Gentiles' in the "time of the Gentiles".. and that is when God is dealing specifically with Gentiles...
That began with The Cross, and continues until this very day.
That is why the "body of Christ".. is mostly gentiles, and not Jews.

Paul confirmed everything Jesus taught.

Paul taught a lot that Jesus never taught , because Jesus was not dealing with Gentiles, when He was down here.
So, Paul was called to the "gentiles" who make up most of the "Church", and His Doctrine is for the Church... the "body of Christ"..

Paul is the "Apostle TO the Gentiles'"....

Could you think of something that was not confirmed?

Well, one... is The Gospel that Paul Teaches, is based on the Cross of Christ, and the Resurrection.
Jesus could not have taught that to Jews during His ministry...., but after He was back in Heaven, and the Holy Spirit was given in Acts 2.. .and then Later Paul was called............all this is a Transition from the OT to the NT.. .from the Old Covenant to the NEW Covenant.
Its God now dealing with the Gentiles.......vs the OT where He only dealt with the Jews.

The Cross of Christ is "God reconciling the World to Himself" as Paul teaches in 2 Corin 5:19.......and Jesus was not doing that, when Jesus was walking around, only dealing with the Jews.

I mean something that Paul taught that Jesus did not.

The Gospel of the Grace of God.. that is "We preach Christ Crucified"... "the Preaching of the Cross is the Power of God.. .unto Salvation, unto everyone who Believes"..

So, Jesus could not have taught this GOSPEL to the JEWS as He was not Crucified. And after He was risen from the Dead..., He was only seen by His Apostles and by others who were BELIEVERS.

Gosh Behold.
THERE IS NOW NO JEW OR GENTILE OR FREE OR SLAVE....
All believers are in the Body of Christ.
There is but one body....not two.

Yes, that verse was given by Paul to Born again Christians, in the Galatians Church.

Jesus could not have given that to Jews. during his 3.5 yrs in ministry to the Jews.....as He had not Hung on The Cross and died and was resurrected.. to create the "body of Christ".. yet.

Is it so different? If we don't forgive, neither will you be forgiven.

We are already forgiven., always.... so from this place of always being forgiven... we forgive.

Whereas those in the OT, were not Christians forgiven. .. as there was no Cross of Christ to do it for them.. so, they were told... "to forgive to be forgiven".

Now, we are eternally forgiven because of The Cross of Christ...

Unbelievers are not.. so, they are under the Law, and have to do that......but, they are still not forgiven..
Jesus said...They are still in their sins, and will die in them, no matter if they have forgiven everyone or not....
They can forgive everyone till they die, and they die and go to Hell, having forgiven everyone... because they have not been forgiven by God based on Trusting in Jesus.

If we don't forgive, we somehow are an impediment to God forgiving.

We are already forgiven, as otherwise we would not be Christians, and we would not be going to Heaven.

I don't really understand this 100% but we are asked by Jesus to forgive and He certainly understands this more than we ever will.

The born again forgive.... because the Christian is known by their LOVE...
So, we forgive because God forgave us., and this is Love being shown.
This is.. "do good to those who enjoy harming you".....

Its "God is good to everyone... the just and the unjust, the sinner and the Saint"..

So, we are to reflect God's love by loving those who do not deserve it, exactly as Jesus laid down His life for those who hated Him.

That is God's Love as Christ on the Cross loving the worst of all ......because God is Love.

It's like being judged with mercy if we show mercy.

WE are shown mercy because Christ has created this situation, for us, by dying for our sin.
WE are always forgiven, because of The Cross.
We the Believers are not shown mercy because we are good.....we are shown mercy because Jesus has created God's "blood atonement" 'new Covenant".. eternal relationship between God and us, which allows God to always and forever be merciful to His Sons/Daughters "in Christ".

God's mercy for the believer is not based on our behavior, its based on The Cross, exactly as our Salvation is based on The Cross of Christ.

Jesus said we will be judged as we judge so as not to be too hard on persons since we don't know their situation.

Jesus said we will be judged by "every idle word"...

And after we are dead, or are raptured then our works we did for Jesus will be judged. at the "bema seat".
But our Judgement due us.. for our life of sin...... fell on Jesus, and He has already been judged for us...

"Jesus is the one time........ETERNAL Sacrifice... for our sin"..

 

[GodsGrace]

Jesus didnt come to the Body of Christ, as there was no Body of Christ until The Cross of Christ birthed it..

So, Jesus was teaching only the Jews... "the house of Israel".. during His 3.5 yrs of ministry.


Later, after The Cross of Christ birthed the CHURCH.. then Jesus called Paul to deliver to the world.. "The Gospel" and to deliver to the "body of Christ".. .Paul's Doctrine.
So, Paul's Doctrine, is Jesus's doctrine to the NT CHURCH.........Including the "Gospel of the Grace of God".




Jesus's Teaching, before He died, was to the Jews... to the "house of Israel".

After He died, He chose Paul to deliver "Church Doctrine" to the Christians, as this had not been given when Jesus was alive, as there was no Church, no Christianity, until Acts 2.
So, After THAT, .. Paul was called by Jesus to deliver "The Gospel".. and "Church Doctrine.



The Cross of Christ, birthed the NT Church, before Paul was called to teach it.
At first, Paul was helping Christians to be murdered.. but that changed because Jesus dealt with Paul, supernaturally, and Paul became the "Apostle to the Gentiles' in the "time of the Gentiles".. and that is when God is dealing specifically with Gentiles...
That began with The Cross, and continues until this very day.
That is why the "body of Christ".. is mostly gentiles, and not Jews.



Paul taught a lot that Jesus never taught , because Jesus was not dealing with Gentiles, when He was down here.
So, Paul was called to the "gentiles" who make up most of the "Church", and His Doctrine is for the Church... the "body of Christ"..

Paul is the "Apostle TO the Gentiles'"....



Well, one... is The Gospel that Paul Teaches, is based on the Cross of Christ, and the Resurrection.
Jesus could not have taught that to Jews during His ministry...., but after He was back in Heaven, and the Holy Spirit was given in Acts 2.. .and then Later Paul was called............all this is a Transition from the OT to the NT.. .from the Old Covenant to the NEW Covenant.
Its God now dealing with the Gentiles.......vs the OT where He only dealt with the Jews.

The Cross of Christ is "God reconciling the World to Himself" as Paul teaches in 2 Corin 5:19.......and Jesus was not doing that, when Jesus was walking around, only dealing with the Jews.



The Gospel of the Grace of God.. that is "We preach Christ Crucified"... "the Preaching of the Cross is the Power of God.. .unto Salvation, unto everyone who Believes"..

So, Jesus could not have taught this GOSPEL to the JEWS as He was not Crucified. And after He was risen from the Dead..., He was only seen by His Apostles and by others who were BELIEVERS.



Yes, that verse was given by Paul to Born again Christians, in the Galatians Church.

Jesus could not have given that to Jews. during his 3.5 yrs in ministry to the Jews.....as He had not Hung on The Cross and died and was resurrected.. to create the "body of Christ".. yet.



We are already forgiven., always.... so from this place of always being forgiven... we forgive.

Whereas those in the OT, were not Christians forgiven. .. as there was no Cross of Christ to do it for them.. so, they were told... "to forgive to be forgiven".

Now, we are eternally forgiven because of The Cross of Christ...

Unbelievers are not.. so, they are under the Law, and have to do that......but, they are still not forgiven..
Jesus said...They are still in their sins, and will die in them, no matter if they have forgiven everyone or not....
They can forgive everyone till they die, and they die and go to Hell, having forgiven everyone... because they have not been forgiven by God based on Trusting in Jesus.



We are already forgiven, as otherwise we would not be Christians, and we would not be going to Heaven.




The born again forgive.... because the Christian is known by their LOVE...
So, we forgive because God forgave us., and this is Love being shown.
This is.. "do good to those who enjoy harming you".....

Its "God is good to everyone... the just and the unjust, the sinner and the Saint"..

So, we are to reflect God's love by loving those who do not deserve it, exactly as Jesus laid down His life for those who hated Him.

That is God's Love as Christ on the Cross loving the worst of all ......because God is Love.




WE are shown mercy because Christ has created this situation, for us, by dying for our sin.
WE are always forgiven, because of The Cross.
We the Believers are not shown mercy because we are good.....we are shown mercy because Jesus has created God's "blood atonement" 'new Covenant".. eternal relationship between God and us, which allows God to always and forever be merciful to His Sons/Daughters "in Christ".

God's mercy for the believer is not based on our behavior, its based on The Cross, exactly as our Salvation is based on The Cross of Christ.



Jesus said we will be judged by "every idle word"...

And after we are dead, or are raptured then our works we did for Jesus will be judged. at the "bema seat".
But our Judgement due us.. for our life of sin...... fell on Jesus, and He has already been judged for us...

"Jesus is the one time........ETERNAL Sacrifice... for our sin"..

Hey B....a lot here and it's really late and I want to take time to read it.
Tomorrow.
'night.

 

[St. SteVen]

The Devil keeps an eye out for a new Convert, and that would be a new Christian or an older one, who He can deceive with some cult theology..........like Calvinism.........or Universalism.......and many others.

FYI -
Universalism is a doctrine that goes all the way back to the early church in the east.

"The Encyclopedia of Religious Knowledge" by Schaff-Herzog, 1908, volume 12, page 96 German theologian- Philip Schaff, Editor: "In the first five or six centuries of Christianity there were six theological schools, of which four (Alexandria, Antioch, Caesarea, and Edessa, or Nisibis) were Universalist, one (Ephesus) accepted conditional immortality; one (Carthage or Rome) taught endless punishment of the wicked. Other theological schools are mentioned as founded by Universalists, but their actual doctrine on this subject is not known."

~~~

The main Patristic supporters of the apokatastasis theory, such as Bardaisan, Clement, Origin, Didymus, St. Anthony, St. Pamphilus Martyr, Methodius, St. Macrina, St. Gregory of Nyssa (and probably the two other Cappadocians), St. Evagrius Ponticus, Diodore of Tarsus, Theodore of Mopsuestia, St. John of Jerusalem, Rufinus, St. Jerome and St. Augustine (at least initially) … Cassian, St. Issac of Nineveh, St. John of Dalyatha, Ps. Dionysius the Areopagite, probably St. Maximus the Confessor, up to John the Scot Eriugena, and many others, grounded their Christian doctrine of apokatastasis first of all in the Bible.
— Ramelli, Christian Doctrine, 11.

[

 

[Behold]

FYI -
Universalism is a doctrine that goes all the way back to the early church in the east.

Paganism is a doctrine that was in effect before Jesus was Crucified.

The "Goddess Diana" .

So, your point is : Moot.

"The Encyclopedia of Religious Knowledge"

Meaningless.

Here is the thing..

Universalism teaches that unbelievers will be saved.
That will never happen, as that negates the Cross of Christ, and "Justification by Faith".

So your Gospel of Universalism is this...

Galatians 1:8.

The main Patristic supporters of the apokatastasis theory

The NT is not interested in man made theories., so why are you obsessed by them?

Here is why...

Have you ever read Hebrews 13:9?
As it explains you, and what happened to you. @St. SteVen

 

[Ritajanice]

No I’m not toast, I’m a spirit child of the most high.


If we aren’t Born Again, then we wouldn’t even know what faith is, as it can only come from God, it’s a gift.

Once you receive that supernatural gift of Faith from God..we exercise our faith.we walk in faith as we know God by the Living witness, the Holy Spirit.

My faith in God is so strong I believe he has healed my AF.. but before you can exercise the gift of Faith..your spirit must be Born Again..once we are Born Again we then walk in faith, as we know of God in our spirit, by His Living witness the Holy Spirit..as he birthed our spirit by = supernatural divine heart revelation.

We are in Gods Love as a Born Again, His Spirit is Love, as we grow in the knowledge of his Love from within our hearts.,our spirit just keeps on surrendering to his Love...therefore his Love will emulate our Of our hearts..we grow very deeply in Love with the Spirit of Christ...as we mature and grow..

Emulate the Love of God​

John 15:7 If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you. 8 Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples. 9 As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love. 10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.11 These things have I spoken unto you, that my joy might remain in you, and that your joy might be full.12 This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you. 13 Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.

God’s Love is:

I. Tough Love

Heb. 12: 6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.

A. The Lord disciplines his children because he loves them and wants the best for them. He is looking out for their good.
B. Romans 8:28 “And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.”
C. We should thank God for his discipline because he is omniscient.
D. We can emulate God’s love by displaying tough love also. We should discipline our children with firmness, love and work courageously for the good of others.

Dr. James Dobson wrote a best seller on this subject and sold over 1 million copies.
Sometimes love must be tough!

II. Tender Love

Psalms 69: 16 Hear me, O LORD; for thy lovingkindness is good: turn unto me according to the multitude of thy tender mercies.
A. God’s love is not only tough but it is also tender. He cares, understands, and is touched with the feeling of our infirmities.
B. God’s love, mercy, and grace are extended to all people in all places, at all times.
C. Emulate God’s tender love. Heed His words: “be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.” (Eph.4:32)

III. Trustworthy Love

Jer. 31: 3 The LORD hath appeared of old unto me, saying, Yea, I have loved thee with an everlasting love: therefore with lovingkindness have I drawn thee.

A. Today’s society is sadly lacking when it comes to trustworthy love. Divorce continually rises.
B. God’s love is trustworthy. He keeps his promises. “That in the ages to come he might show the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.” Eph. 2:7
C. We should be steadfast and dependable also, loving “in deed and in truth” (1John 3:18)

IV. Triumphant Love

1 Cor. 13:8 “Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.”

A. People, possessions, pleasures, and popularity fail, but God’s triumphant love never fails.
B. Before we can emulate God’s triumphant love, we need to possess his love. We must totally commit ourselves to God to be filled with his love.
C. God’s love is triumphant because “God is love” (1John 4:8,16) His love brings victory now and eternally. 1 Cor. 13:13 “And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity

 

[St. SteVen]

No I’m not toast, I’m a spirit child of the most high.

That's good, but...
This is at least the second spoof topic I have launched that myopic Christians have fallen for.
Here's the other one I know of.

What makes a doctrine false?

What makes a doctrine false? Please quote what you would like to respond to. Thanks. 1. You've never heard it before. (knee-jerk defensive response) 2. You have heard of it before, but assume it's false. (haven't looked into it) 3. Doesn't align with your church's doctrine (your church...

www.christianityboard.com

[

 

[Ritajanice]

That's good, but...
This is at least the second spoof topic I have launched that myopic Christians have fallen for.
Here's the other one I know of.

What makes a doctrine false?

What makes a doctrine false? Please quote what you would like to respond to. Thanks. 1. You've never heard it before. (knee-jerk defensive response) 2. You have heard of it before, but assume it's false. (haven't looked into it) 3. Doesn't align with your church's doctrine (your church...

www.christianityboard.com

[

The wonderful thing about being Born Again is, we know that we are by = supernatural divine heart revelation , the word confirms it.

spirit children are free from eternal damnation...only the Living Spirit can testify of that truth to our spirit.

 

[Behold]

This is at least the second spoof topic I have launched that myopic Christians have fallen for.

A deceived Universalist, who does not trust the Bible, (too many errors he believes).... is accusing Christians of "falling for false doctrine"

A.) That's Rich.

 

[Ritajanice]

We put our trust in Christ by the living power of the Holy Spirit at work in our hearts.

The Bible confirms this truth.