Fear God or Presume acceptance

[Willie T]

Sorry, but I guess I will always see the "fearing God" you guys describe as the same fear that keeps abused wives from leaving their viscous and hateful husbands.

To me, it is a form of mental sickness.

 

[Candidus]

Agree

But if we backslide, Have we lost our son ship?

1 Jn. 1:7, “If we walk in the light, as He is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth from all sin.” The passage connects walking in the light and fellowship and to present tense cleansing form sin! What if the condition of fellowship and present tense cleansing ceases? If we don’t walk in the light as He is in the light, there is no connected promise of the blood of Christ cleansing us from all sin! So, do we lose our Son-Ship? I would say yes. The passage is clear that it is not just “fellowship” that is lost, but also relationship!

 

[FollowHim]

Why would Jesus terrify His listeners with stories of Eternal agony and torment because of sin? How many come to Christ because they love God so much? Most people respond to God for fear of Judgement; they want what Christ offers to avoid future damnation. You really cannot love God unless you know God; the relationship does not exist until you already believe.

I see the motive changing for the one who Believes, obedience because the love God. Sinning however, is unbelief, and we know from Scripture that if one continues in that unbelief, fear is still a motivator. "The Lord shall judge his people. It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God."

Love is no doubt the motive that Jesus wanted us to live by. The one walking in the love and light of Jesus Christ will not be doing those things that bring them fear and condemnation. This is why we are constantly exhorted to remain in the faith, abide in Christ, continue and endure. If love cannot motivate the Believer to do this, perhaps fear can. One that is motivated by love focusses on God and others, the one only motivated by fear tends to be more concerned about their own welfare. One is healthier and more productive, but I believe both motives exist in Scripture.

Fear done wrongly is a dangerous thing.
Back in the 70's a church I belonged to had a show talking about the end of the world, and how the rapture would take people out of this world and avoid problems that the beast would create. It was like saying you like you life now, and it will be kept safe if you come to faith, on the beast will come and torture you and you will go to hell.

It was not about love, and the dynamic change of our walk in Jesus and His life in our lives, but you are about to be shaken up badly so come to Jesus now before it is too late.

They had little fear of adding to the book of revelations and play on fear.
We should not fear the beast, he is childs play compared to the creator and even our own consciences, which know our true motivations and intentions.

It is equally why I fear sin, because sin destroys me and those I love. Sin is no friend to anyone, as God says the results of sin, wages, is death. It is miss understood that sin is great, it is only Gods judgement of it that is the problem. Fools think like this. Sin kills, stone dead. So many people leave school at 16 and 4 years later are dead from drugs, depression, despair, broken families, jobs, hopes and dreams.

We are fragile, very fragile, and need the Lord in us to make us whole, literally solid, unshakeable, loved, appreciated and a blessing to those we meet. Listen to Jesus. Can you fault Him or take Him down for the wrong balanced approach? Where did he get this from and why does he still speak 2,000 years later, today to our hearts.

 

[Candidus]

Sorry, but I guess I will always see the "fearing God" you guys describe as the same fear that keeps abused wives from leaving their viscous and hateful husbands.

To me, it is a form of mental sickness.

I never recommend placing too much on anthropomorphisms which would make God look too small. A father can instill a healthy fear in their children. That does not equal abuse, or shear terror. We can have a healthy fear of God too. Yet, as I showed in the verse I quoted, it is a fearful thing to fall into the hand of the living God! For those that fall into sin and never turn to God and repent, yes, God paints this as then being appropriately a "terror" fear! That is what Jesus used in His preaching to those in unbelief.

A man abusing his wife with terror and fear is mental sickness and sin; God using terror and fear to place a "fear of God" into the one that is going to be damned... is not a mental sickness.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Fellowship is NOT the same as sonship

I can be my fathers son yet have no fellowship with him

I am STILL my fathers son

Jut saying

 

[FollowHim]

Sorry, but I guess I will always see the "fearing God" you guys describe as the same fear that keeps abused wives from leaving their viscous and hateful husbands.

To me, it is a form of mental sickness.

Hi Willie,

You are right about fear from domination. But God to me is about service and support, bringing healing and hope, but at His core is justice, truth and righteousness. His grace covers this up, until judgement, and everything is resolved.

If you see fear caused by control and devaluing people so they are dependant slaves is completely different from love and encouragement so people explore their gifting and expression within the constraints of limitations and rules. One is stripping away anothers life, and the other is helping their life grow and prosper.

For me it is appreciating the bullet train. The engineering involved is staggering, and the ability to get from one place to another breath taking, but it is also very dangerous and needs constant monitoring and care to make it possible. Without this fear of failure nothing could be achieved, and without care in use, it would break.

God raises us up to the level of the creator, the King of Kings, and calls us friends. That is an unbelievable honour and privilege, but it cannot happen until we learn the dangers and limitations, so we work within them, completely and not because we obey rules for rules sake, it is we understand the whole thing and its purpose and its ways, from our hearts. Jesus opened this door, and unfortunately for us, this is black and white, we either learn from Him, or the door will be eternally closed.
God bless you

 

[Willie T]

All this "fear-mongering" with the rock climbing and bullet train examples is the same "walking a tightrope over Hell" that I left behind in the Church of Christ. It puts it on us to be afraid God is saying: "do it right, or I will kill you."

 

[Candidus]

You talk about Him but it seems all your "knowledge" is from the bible. Its no wonder this went all askew.

Study it all your life you will still be wrong.
God bless

Hosea 4:6 "my people are destroyed from lack of knowledge. "Because you have rejected knowledge, I also reject you as my priests; because you have ignored the law of your God, I also will ignore your children."

Proverbs 1:7 "The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge, but fools despise wisdom and instruction."

Proverbs 2:10-11 "For wisdom will enter your heart, and knowledge will be pleasant to your soul. 11Discretion will protect you, and understanding will guard you."

Psalm 119:105 "Your word is a lamp for my feet, a light on my path."

2 Timothy 2:15 "Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth."


There as a reason this all went askew!

 

[FollowHim]

All this "fear-mongering" with the rock climbing and bullet train examples is the same "walking a tightrope over Hell" that I left behind in the Church of Christ. It puts it on us to be afraid God is saying: "do it right, or I will kill you."

I think your analogy, of do it right or I will kill you, is actually, do it right with me, and it will not kill you.

God is not killing us, our sin is. Sin is our fatal flaw that makes us useless. The lake of fire is the lake of destruction of that which is useless. When you measure the infinite against imperfection, infinite works, because imperfection will always destroy and appear, it just is a matter of time, and the infinite never runs out of time.

God is prepared to get alongside us and show us the way. And God's people want to literally walk this way, it is why they are His people. And in their hearts they listen to Jesus. I had this experience listening to Jesus, I agreed with Him and His perspective. I literally wanted to know more, it was my passion, that has not left me.

The dilemma of describing life is difficult. Being lost but knowing the basics probably sums it up best. We hope for the best outcome, but continually get disappointed until finally we die. Jesus lays a different road, of emotional balance and freedom, of coping and loving from the heart.

Funnily I have had an interaction with some who say, I do not buy that. Others who say this is the road to utopia and cults, death cults. And as a youngster I would have agreed this path is difficult, but now I would say, I understand emotional conclusions and emotional relativism, so there is no danger of going there. And we need this purity and clarity Jesus brings, because this is eternal life, the Holy Spirit dwelling in His people. God bless you

 

[FollowHim]

All this "fear-mongering" with the rock climbing and bullet train examples is the same "walking a tightrope over Hell" that I left behind in the Church of Christ. It puts it on us to be afraid God is saying: "do it right, or I will kill you."

20 "you cannot see my face, for no one may see me and live."
Exodus 33

There is something about God that if we see Him we will die. The whole of salvation is to prepare us so we can see Him face to face and live. It is what saving someone is. At the end of time there are only two realities, being with God or being dead.

God is the creator, and being in His presence is lethal to sinners.
God cannot change this reality, it is part of creation and its limitations. He though through Jesus provided a way of resolution. If we reject this resolution we are choosing death and rejection, not because God could accept us, but we are in such a state that our fragility is just chaff blowing in the wind, of no value.

The paradox is chaff just tries and fails to resolve lifes issues and does not know why they fail, until they find Jesus. But once in Jesus one cannot understand chaff because this is a reality rather than an intellectual concept challenge.

God bless you

 

[Cooper]

All this "fear-mongering" with the rock climbing and bullet train examples is the same "walking a tightrope over Hell" that I left behind in the Church of Christ. It puts it on us to be afraid God is saying: "do it right, or I will kill you."

If the world is a jungle and God is the Lion of Judah, He will protect us from all ills.

It is not us who need to fear God, but the enemies of God who should be afraid.
.

 

[marks]

Without this fear of failure nothing could be achieved,

I would disagree with this.

The just shall live by faith. Faith is not the fear of failure. I rather think fear of failure is the killer of faith.

Much love!

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I would disagree with this.

The just shall live by faith. Faith is not the fear of failure. I rather think fear of failure is the killer of faith.

Much love!

Amen

What kind of faith do I have, if I Have fear of failure?

I would not call that faith at all. I call that wishful thinking

 

[FollowHim]

I would disagree with this.

The just shall live by faith. Faith is not the fear of failure. I rather think fear of failure is the killer of faith.

Much love!

There is always fear of failure, because it is the failure that is the problem not the fear. The heart of repentance is in being prepared to take the risk before the King that He will forgive, because He might not.

If one has no fear, one is arrogant. We do not have the power or the audacity to expect the Lords response. Even when you know His response, He still has to give it. The difference here is in emotional conclusions. As soon as we stop discerning we are servants in the presence of the King, we can end up as some preachers have done, they are gods.

They have no fear, and so this foolishness is spoken, and people just take the pride and audacity as authentic reality.

People have no fear of Jesus and His word. So one interpretation of eternal life is one is secure in Christ no matter how one behaves, while Jesus tells parables of badly behaved servants rejected and cast out. And this is founded because there is no fear, only presumption. As some have said the focus is on them, their emotional stability fear or no fear, not who God actually is, and the wonder of the other, the eternal, which is so different from the world.

Now this God, the Lord of Lords strikes down prophets, His messengers when they get it wrong. There is no favouritism in His eyes. It is difficult to emphasis this too much, a prophet is told not to eat, another prophet says God changed things, he eats, God executes judgement and he is killed.

God is not safe as we regard safe, or limited as we define limited. He is gracious beyond that which I can imagine, but also when His heart has decided a course of action, people die who resist this way.

His people know this voice and His reality, so I just praise His name, that He works things through for His purposes, Amen, God bless you

Our security is in Gods will and finding it, not our emotional stability.

 

[FollowHim]

If the world is a jungle and God is the Lion of Judah, He will protect us from all ills.

It is not us who need to fear God, but the enemies of God who should be afraid.
.

When did God promise that He would protect us from all ills.
He promised people would hate and kill us, as they hated Him and killed all the messengers of old. Listen to Paul

20 Granted. But they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but be afraid.
21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you either.
Rom 11:20-21

Paul calls us to be afraid of falling into unbelief because we will not be spared.
This is so clear, why do so many live in the delusion no fear is something of God.

 

[Episkopos]

There is always fear of failure, because it is the failure that is the problem not the fear. The heart of repentance is in being prepared to take the risk before the King that He will forgive, because He might not.

If one has no fear, one is arrogant. We do not have the power or the audacity to expect the Lords response. Even when you know His response, He still has to give it. The difference here is in emotional conclusions. As soon as we stop discerning we are servants in the presence of the King, we can end up as some preachers have done, they are gods.

They have no fear, and so this foolishness is spoken, and people just take the pride and audacity as authentic reality.

People have no fear of Jesus and His word. So one interpretation of eternal life is one is secure in Christ no matter how one behaves, while Jesus tells parables of badly behaved servants rejected and cast out. And this is founded because there is no fear, only presumption. As some have said the focus is on them, their emotional stability fear or no fear, not who God actually is, and the wonder of the other, the eternal, which is so different from the world.

Now this God, the Lord of Lords strikes down prophets, His messengers when they get it wrong. There is no favouritism in His eyes. It is difficult to emphasis this too much, a prophet is told not to eat, another prophet says God changed things, he eats, God executes judgement and he is killed.

God is not safe as we regard safe, or limited as we define limited. He is gracious beyond that which I can imagine, but also when His heart has decided a course of action, people die who resist this way.

His people know this voice and His reality, so I just praise His name, that He works things through for His purposes, Amen, God bless you

Our security is in Gods will and finding it, not our emotional stability.

This is very important! Good post!

 

[Episkopos]

All this "fear-mongering" with the rock climbing and bullet train examples is the same "walking a tightrope over Hell" that I left behind in the Church of Christ. It puts it on us to be afraid God is saying: "do it right, or I will kill you."

When a high wire walker or trapeze artist learn the ropes....they practice with a net. So there is a learning curve. The point is to be able to do what God wants us to. Practice makes perfect.

 

[FollowHim]

Sorry, but I guess I will always see the "fearing God" you guys describe as the same fear that keeps abused wives from leaving their viscous and hateful husbands.

To me, it is a form of mental sickness.

All this "fear-mongering" with the rock climbing and bullet train examples is the same "walking a tightrope over Hell" that I left behind in the Church of Christ. It puts it on us to be afraid God is saying: "do it right, or I will kill you."

Fear is a healthy thing, it keeps us alive. Excessive fear is unhealthy and stops us functioning. When a good level of fear and respect is equated to beating wives and being mentally ill, something has gone very wrong in someones thinking and life.

There is one verse that talks about fear being cast out by love. Now that is it.
But every other verse about fear and the beginning of wisdom, the foundation of staying in Gods grace and will, are put to one side, as if we His children know what is right and good and are capable of saving ourselves.

Now there is a real connection between those who say they are saved and secure and nothing in their walk can cause them to fail before the Lord and a rejection of fear. There is a verse that sums up these two concepts

16 A wise man fears the LORD and shuns evil, but a fool is hotheaded and reckless.
17 A quick-tempered man does foolish things, and a crafty man is hated.
18 The simple inherit folly, but the prudent are crowned with knowledge.
Prov 14:16-18

24 But be sure to fear the LORD and serve him faithfully with all your heart; consider what great things he has done for you.
25 Yet if you persist in doing evil, both you and your king will be swept away.
1 Sam 12:24-25

15 The way of a fool seems right to him, but a wise man listens to advice.
16 A fool shows his annoyance at once, but a prudent man overlooks an insult.
17 A truthful witness gives honest testimony, but a false witness tells lies.
Prov 12:15-17

 

[marks]

God is not safe as we regard safe,

What does this mean?

 

[Willie T]

God has already told us we can't "do it." He has told us we are all sinners. He has told us we will continue sinning.
Where does anyone get the idea that some practice is going to make them perfect? None of us stops screwing up until after we quit breathing. Are we to fear punishment from a God who knows we are flawed and will always be so in this life?