Fear God or Presume acceptance

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stunnedbygrace

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he does?

He thinks obedience to Gods word in the gospel is not necessary?

Marks did you say this?

I think it was post...#566?
He was teaching that we are justified by Jesus' obedience. This is to say Jesus' obedience of faith is how men are declared righteous by God. But I read that a man is called righteous by faith. Which is to say the man trusts God.
 

marks

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he does?

He thinks obedience to Gods word in the gospel is not necessary?

Marks did you say this?
What I believe is that we are not justified based on our obedience. By one man came condemnation, Adam. Humanity, in Adam, sinned. Became condemned, and dead, separated from God.

Jesus was incarnated the last man. The first man, Adam, the last man, Christ. Justification is being forgiven of all sin as we die and are resurrected in Christ's death and resurrection. And in that death and resurrection, we leave Adam, and are now in Christ.

Jesus conquered death because Jesus was righteous. No one else is or was, not like that.

Because our justification is being joined to Christ in His death, and being raised with Him, in His obedience unto death, that is the obedience that saves us. We trust in Him, He is the obedient one.

And as it is His obedience, not ours, that we are justified by, our obedience is not a part of the equation.

Do I think our obedience is necessary? That's not what our justification is based on, so, if you are asking, is our obedience necessary to be justified? No. That is Jesus' obedience. And think about it. If you are obedient, righteous, then what justification do you need? That's why Jesus rose from among all who died. Because He alone is Righteous. In that way. Not only the righteousness of the Law, but real righteousness.

Do I think our obedience is necessary? God made us His children. Do we obey? God made us mammals. Do we breathe? Yes.

Much love!
 
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marks

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It took me a while to learn that anxiety or worry was a sin. When that knowledge was truly revealed to me, I stopped worrying. I even go to bed during tornado warnings. Besides, I know where I'll be if I get killed. It is also why I stayed in a dangerous marriage. Same reason. But worry is not the only weakness that produces sin. I'm sure more and more will be revealed to me that I'll have to work on and God will keep perfecting me. Being quicker to forgive is one thing I'm working on. What's next, Lord? I'm sure He'll tell me.
For me, it's becoming more a matter of everthing that's not love joy faith patience gentleness self-control and the rest, everything not those is of the flesh.

As soon as my patience gets a little thin, I know that I'm drifting from love. As soon as I start to worry, again, I'm not remaining in His love.''

A really interesting thing is having a physiological anxiety disorder. My body - my emotions - mind of the flesh - are sometimes subject to anxiety, and yet it doesn't touch me. So long as I'm trusting Jesus for that. I can have the full range of symptoms, and sometimes even the physical debilitation of depression and anxiety, yet not be under it's power, or subject to that mind.

I don't know that I would have consciously chosen this, although I kind of did I suppose. But it's a fantastic laboratory to put into practice the doctrines of our new life!

I feel like I have a front row seat on how the flesh operates, and how it deceives. What the corruption is, and how justification, a new creation, transcends all of the flesh.

The deceptive lusts of the flesh begin, I think, with that first slight movement away from restful trusting.

Much love!
 

Episkopos

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so again, how do you know if you made it?

Do you live your life in fear hoping you make it. or do you know


You are assuming that I have carnal worries. I leave it to God to judge me. I'm not afraid to die. Fear of death is NOT fear of the Lord.

Nobody knows what God will judge on that day. To have a make believe assumption about that is just to deceive yourself.

There are going to be a lot of surprises. So we should fear the Lord and walk in a way that is worthy of the high calling in Christ.
 

marks

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Nobody knows what God will judge on that day. To have a make believe assumption about that is just to deceive yourself.

There are going to be a lot of surprises. So we should fear the Lord and walk in a way that is worthy of the high calling in Christ.

All these things are true. And yet we can live now, here, in intimacy with God, having been justified by Him, to share His righteousness, being reconciled to Him, being His children, enjoying His eternal life, now given to us.

Much love!
 
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marks

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Here is what I didn't get to last night. Took a while to find it. LOL

I agree. When you love someone, you forgive them, and are not sarcastic against them. That is perfect love. This is where I believe we have to work a little harder to not grieve or quench the Spirit. If you are already there, great. I try to be like Jesus and not speak at all in my defense when it is obvious there is no hope of getting through, and just leave, lest I say something less than perfect love.

Yes, we need to be aware what is not out of love, as it will not be of the Spirit. Already there? He who began a good work in you will complete it UNTIL the day of Christ Jesus. Still a work in process.

I realize also that the desire to defend one's self primarily is from the flesh. There are times. Jesus asked, which of you can convict Me of sin?? An 'in your face' challenge to those who wanted nothing more than to bury Him.

I need to be convinced there is a purpose, something good that will come from it. It all comes down to how much do I think this post may give a gift to you? The rest, delete delete delete.

I have a situation (in real life, not forum life) that I still need to reconcile. I don't think reconciliation means I'll hang out with that person, or go back to his Bible study. Forgiveness, doesn't mean trust, and put yourself in the same situation of abuse. Just not holding on to a grudge. What do you think. I need help. I think I may tell his mother-in-law to tell him I forgive him, and leave it at that. Just so he knows so he can feel healing. It seems that even though no one in the Bible study group came to my defense or said a word and just let him yell on and on, the Bible study seemed to end after years of meeting every Thursday night. I didn't go back, but found out that no one else did either. Personally, from experience, when something like this happens at a leadership level, God's hand of blessing lifts.

I think the solution is in coming to think of others in a different way. We can try to sort out what we should do, it's good to think about. But before the rest, I need to be certain in my heart that what I want is to give the gift God intends me to give, that I'm nothing, and His love being expressed is everything.

If that is my heart, then it won't matter what anyone has done to me, yelling and screaming, betrayed, whatever it is, It won't matter except to sadden me that the edification God wants is stalled.

Of course it is higher. The Ten Commandments were so easy to keep. You just didn't let your hate evolve to murder, or your lust to actual adultery, or your coveting to actual theft. Willpower, even in the carnal nature. Just knowledge. That is why I believe the Sermon on the Mount was about how the New Covenant is so much higher than the "you have heard it said of old..." Don't get me wrong. The Ten Commandments was based on the eternal law of love, but it left out the Spirit of Love. It merely had to do with outward actions, not what you may fantasize in your heart.

Of course, coveting is in the 10 commandments. That's a sin of the heart. And in the law it also commands that we love others. But I do agree, all God's commandments have their foundation in love. Even the not trimming the beard and such.

Another interesting thing from the Sermon on the Mount . . . if your right hand cause you to sin, cut it off . . . Is it your hand that causes you to sin? Sin is from the flesh. Therefore, we cut off the flesh.

True love that is part of our new nature, doesn't even want to. That is where we have to work out our own salvation. Look at the list in 2 Peter 1:5-7. Love is the last thing that becomes an actuality toward perfection; whereas it is the first fruit of the Spirit given. That would be a great study to discuss on here. You are given the power to love, but it needs many trials to be perfected.

Yes it will make a great study!

The two commandments, trust Jesus, love others. To faith add . . . to brotherly kindness add charity. These are the steps towards putting on Christ. They are equally the steps to adding love. I prefer the translation charity, as I think it more accurately reflects the meaning of agapeo.

Peter gives us a focus that we can use to understand ourselves correctly, and to accurately apply ourselves to God's Way.

"Stand at the ways . . . and look . . . and ask what is the eternal way . . ." Jeremiah 6 I think.

Wouldn't it be great if everybody on here practiced that, including myself? LOL

I'm taking a more serious look at myself on this score. I'm taking on a renewed commitment to be certain that what I write conforms to the standard God gave me, let NO corrupt speech come out of my mouth, but ONLY what is needful for building up others. It's all about His gifts. The one speaking as the oracle of God. There's a standard!

Much love!
 
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CharismaticLady

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For me, it's becoming more a matter of everthing that's not love joy faith patience gentleness self-control and the rest, everything not those is of the flesh.

As soon as my patience gets a little thin, I know that I'm drifting from love. As soon as I start to worry, again, I'm not remaining in His love.''

A really interesting thing is having a physiological anxiety disorder. My body - my emotions - mind of the flesh - are sometimes subject to anxiety, and yet it doesn't touch me. So long as I'm trusting Jesus for that. I can have the full range of symptoms, and sometimes even the physical debilitation of depression and anxiety, yet not be under it's power, or subject to that mind.

I don't know that I would have consciously chosen this, although I kind of did I suppose. But it's a fantastic laboratory to put into practice the doctrines of our new life!

I feel like I have a front row seat on how the flesh operates, and how it deceives. What the corruption is, and how justification, a new creation, transcends all of the flesh.

The deceptive lusts of the flesh begin, I think, with that first slight movement away from restful trusting.

Much love!

I don't know anything about that disorder, but I love how you are able to handle it, and observe the Spirit's power first hand.
 
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marks

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so we can become worthy of eternal life?

please explain how. and where it gives us these conditions in the word
Remember that while we look at things such as Outer Darkness or living eternally in God's light are matters determined in our rebirth in Christ, that we've been transfered from the power of darkness, and into the kingdom of the Beloved, @Episkopos views this as something unknowable until we've died and stand before God, who will then either cast us into the lake of fire to be destroyed if we've completely rejected him, or to determine, if we've been born His children, whether we shall spend eternity in outer darkness wailing and gnashing our teeth, or outside the city, or living in the heavenly city. Any of these might be your state, or his, whomever.

While our judgment as God's children is based on our works, otherwise our status with God is based in Christ. For Episkopos, that status is determined by your own worthiness as revealed by God in that day.

Hopefully Episkopos will correct me if I'm not stating this correctly. One way I like to make sure I understand something is to restate it.

Much love!
 

marks

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I don't know anything about that disorder, but I love how you are able to handle it, and observe the Spirit's power first hand.
Believe me, it's been a difficult learning curve! But so well worth it! All the joy and love imaginable in our Magnificent loving Creator, and our part is to believe.

And in believing, we find Him.

But there are so many niggling little ways that creep into our minds that stumble our faith, sometimes moments, sometimes days, sometimes barely noticeable. I think with me God just turned up the contrast to I could get a good sharp look. I don't know. Like we've both said . . . personal experience is nothing next to Scripture. But it does enhance my faith to believe.

One of the early tells is that my joy starts to diminish. If only I caught that every time, before my mind is churning again, and I have to catch myself, and remind myself of God and His love, and so long as I trust this truth, all is well.

Much love!
 

CharismaticLady

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I'm taking a more serious look at myself on this score. I'm taking on a renewed commitment to be certain that what I write conforms to the standard God gave me, let NO corrupt speech come out of my mouth, but ONLY what is needful for building up others. It's all about His gifts. The one speaking as the oracle of God. There's a standard!

On the forums, I don't know about you, but there comes a time when I just have to put someone on ignore.
 

marks

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On the forums, I don't know about you, but there comes a time when I just have to put someone on ignore.
I just double checked . . . I have 11 on ignore. About half those are permanent. I don't see any edification. This is the first forum I've been on that has the ignore feature.

Much love!
 

CharismaticLady

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I just double checked . . . I have 11 on ignore. About half those are permanent. I don't see any edification. This is the first forum I've been on that has the ignore feature.

Much love!

I just looked at my profile page and have no idea how you found out how many you have on ignore.