Fear God or Presume acceptance

[marks]

You can take people to 1 Jn. 1:8 all day long. If they are Christians, it has no application to them at all! You can take people to a single wrenched verse, I can take people to hundreds that say that Christians are to be holy, that sin is incompatible with saving faith... and I have the entire Bible from cover to cover that proves it!

The modern day Gnostic influence is strong in the Church where there is more to be said for sin than against it!

Hi Candidus,

I'm curious, what does this part mean to you?

20 But ye have not so learned Christ;
21 If so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus:
22 That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;
23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;
24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

What is this old man, and what is this new man? What does it mean to put off the old, and put on the new?

Much love!

 

[marks]

If 1 Jn. 1:8 means that Christians still sin, then why does EVERYTHING he writes in this Epistle deny that assumption? John's Epistle is to far too self-contradictory to have possibly been inspired by God if John is claiming what you say.

Just read a little further . . .

1 John 2
1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

Much love!

 

[marks]

no. Grace is unmerited or unearned favor.

Mercy is given BECAUSE of Grace,



You should do a study on grace, apart from romanistic/catholic ideas.

Hi EG,

I suggest to you that a reading of those places that speak of grace show that it is God's favor toward us in both declaration and act. We are both adopted and born. We are accepted, and empowered. While there are certain things I disagree over with @Episkopos , in this I do agree.

Personally, I've come to think of grace as describing God's goodness flowing out to us to provide what we need, all of it.

Much love!

 

[Candidus]

Just read a little further . . .

1 John 2
1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

Much love!

Already refuted.

 

[marks]

But the modern anemic interpretation that denies the power of God goes like this...."for my favour is made perfect in continual sinning?"

Continual sinning? Is that what they say?

 

[marks]

or the third

That he was telling people like you not to be so PROUD to think you have made it, And claim you no longer sin, And in fact, telling believers, when they DO SIN (and they will) not to fear. Because they have an advocate. in Christ Jesus that we can go to him, OPENLY CONFESS our sin. and be healed or cleansed from that sin.

But hey, If you want to think your sinless. Feel free. But if you think this, I feal sorry for you. Not even PAUL thought he was totally free from sin, And Peter showed he continued to sin,

I guess they had no victory either huh??

And its not rhetoric, it is fact

WE WE CLAIM WE HAVE NO SIN, WE DECEIVE OURSELVES

Now I will not Judge you, only God can do that, But John said who is deceived, Its not me who is saying who is decieved

Has @Candidus actually said that they are sinless?

I mean, I know it sounds like they are talking that way, but actually say it?

Maybe this is a theological theory only, a theological position, but not that anyone claims it for themself.

We all know as we walk in the Spirit we do the things that please Him. So aren't we all in agreement?

Or is someone actually saying they live life without sinning?

Is there? Anyone?

Much love!

 

[marks]

So, you deny the Trinity! Sad.

How do you get that? Seriously?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Hi EG,

I suggest to you that a reading of those places that speak of grace show that it is God's favor toward us in both declaration and act. We are both adopted and born. We are accepted, and empowered. While there are certain things I disagree over with @Episkopos , in this I do agree.

Personally, I've come to think of grace as describing God's goodness flowing out to us to provide what we need, all of it.

Much love!

In the fact that grace allows us to grow. I agree, apart from Grace, I would still be lost in my sin, and headed strait to hell. with no hope

Grace giving us the power though. That is to me religious thinking, The power to go comes from God himself

1. In making us his children
2. In giving us the Holy Spirit
3. In giving us the ability to understand his word.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Has @Candidus actually said that they are sinless?

I mean, I know it sounds like they are talking that way, but actually say it?

Maybe this is a theological theory only, a theological position, but not that anyone claims it for themself.

We all know as we walk in the Spirit we do the things that please Him. So aren't we all in agreement?

Or is someone actually saying they live life without sinning?

Is there? Anyone?

Much love!

Both he and Eskipopos seem to be leaning that way, Yet i have never heard either of them claim it,

of course, For what they are trying to tell us,, If they are not sinless. They have pretty much told us we need to do what they cannot even do themselves.

 

[Candidus]

Hi Candidus,

I'm curious, what does this part mean to you?

20 But ye have not so learned Christ;
21 If so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus:
22 That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;
23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;
24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

What is this old man, and what is this new man? What does it mean to put off the old, and put on the new?

Much love!

It is addressing sanctification. It is addressed to believers. The New Testament is replete with exhortations for believers to go on to perfection, that the will of God is our sanctification, that without holiness no one shall see the Lord.

The Early Church was Jewish, and as the Gospel was stretched out to include the Gentiles, some things you would never have to say to a Jew would have to be addressed; they knew the Law. In Ephesians 4:17 "walk no longer just as the Gentiles also walk...". V.22 continues the argument, "in reference to your former manner of life, you lay aside the old self." It is a call to holiness and to leave the futility and ignorance behind. God saves a person and then cleans them up. He does not demand that you come clean before you become a Christian. We repent of what we know to be sin. I did, yet coming from an Atheist background, I was ignorant that many things were sins. As a person gets more light, they are called to forsake that which they know is sin, and to seek that which is good in the sight of God. (This is displayed very well in Corinthians, where Paul keeps on saying in exasperation… "Did you not know?").

 

[marks]

Both he and Eskipopos seem to be leaning that way, Yet i have never heard either of them claim it,

of course, For what they are trying to tell us,, If they are not sinless. They have pretty much told us we need to do what they cannot even do themselves.

IF that's the case, well, is that, "tying up heavy burdens for others" that they don't lift themselves?

I mean, this is how it seems to me. Certain ones going on and on about, If you sin you're not a Christian! You're all a lot of hypocrits!

Yet they themselves display themselves to us, and we can see how they act. No one need say anything.

Twisting someone's words around trying to make them look foolish, is that righteousness?

Much love!

 

[Candidus]

Both he and Eskipopos seem to be leaning that way, Yet i have never heard either of them claim it,

of course, For what they are trying to tell us,, If they are not sinless. They have pretty much told us we need to do what they cannot even do themselves.

There is no reason to chase red herrings instead of believing what God says. This is where the problem starts, using your experience to determine what you will accept from Scripture. If you do not like what God says, your argument is with Him, not anybody else.

If you cannot believe God on the issue, you will not believe the testimony of man.

It is astonishing to see how many people have not "achieved" salvation on their own, being critical about people "achieving" a Biblical perfection.

 

[marks]

It is addressing sanctification. It is addressed to believers. The New Testament is replete with exhortations for believers to go on to perfection, that the will of God is our sanctification, that without holiness no one shall see the Lord.

The Early Church was Jewish, and as the Gospel was stretched out to include the Gentiles, some things you would never have to say to a Jew would have to be addressed; they knew the Law. In Ephesians 4:17 "walk no longer just as the Gentiles also walk...". V.22 continues the argument, "in reference to your former manner of life, you lay aside the old self." It is a call to holiness and to leave the futility and ignorance behind. God saves a person and then cleans them up. He does not demand that you come clean before you become a Christian. We repent of what we know to be sin. I did, yet coming from an Atheist background, I was ignorant that many things were sins. As a person gets more light, they are called to forsake that which they know is sin, and to seek that which is good in the sight of God. (This is displayed very well in Corinthians, where Paul keeps on saying in exasperation… "Did you not know?").

I'm not really seeing an answer to my questions. Not that you are required to answer, but still curious.

What is the "old man"? What is the "new man"? And why are these believers being told to "put off the old man" and "put on the new man"?

Isn't the old man the descendant of Adam? And the new man the new creation, as in 2 Corinthians 5?

Much love!

 

[Eternally Grateful]

IF that's the case, well, is that, "tying up heavy burdens for others" that they don't lift themselves?

I mean, this is how it seems to me. Certain ones going on and on about, If you sin you're not a Christian! You're all a lot of hypocrits!

Yet they themselves display themselves to us, and we can see how they act. No one need say anything.

Twisting someone's words around trying to make them look foolish, is that righteousness?

Much love!

that and refusing to say no

If they truly believed they were sinless. They would come out and say it, Not attack us..

 

[Eternally Grateful]

There is no reason to chase red herrings instead of believing what God says. This is where the problem starts, using your experience to determine what you will accept from Scripture. If you do not like what God says, your argument is with Him, not anybody else.

If you cannot believe God on the issue, you will not believe the testimony of man.

It is astonishing to see how many people have not "achieved" salvation on their own, being critical about people "achieving" a Biblical perfection.

Like this

 

[marks]

There is no reason to chase red herrings instead of believing what God says. This is where the problem starts, using your experience to determine what you will accept from Scripture. If you do not like what God says, your argument is with Him, not anybody else.

If you cannot believe God on the issue, you will not believe the testimony of man.

It is astonishing to see how many people have not "achieved" salvation on their own, being critical about people "achieving" a Biblical perfection.

I'm not critical of anyone acheiving anything, I'm just wondering if your walk matches your talk. If you truly believe what you teach.

And if what you say is true, and if you are not without any sin, then what would make you qualified teacher? I'd prefer in that case a Christian teacher, not a phony one who sins. If that were true.

Much love!

 

[marks]

that and refusing to say no

If they truly believed they were sinless. They would come out and say it, Not attack us..

Out of the abundance of the mouth the heart speaks.

All we really need do is review a person's postings.

Much love!

 

[Candidus]

Certain ones going on and on about, If you sin you're not a Christian! You're all a lot of hypocrits!

I know, I know... when the Bible says, "he who sins is of the devil" actually was supposed to say, "he who sins is a Christian"! Let's correct God!

"No temptation has overtaken you but such as is common to man: and God is faithful, who will not allow you to be tempted beyond what you are able, but with the temptation will provide a way of escape also, that you may be able to endure it." 1 Cor. 10:13. If I fail God and rebel, it's normal, God failed me again! God does not regenerate or sanctify a believer... He only expects us to just sin a little less that we did before. Although He is going to send my neighbor who is not a Christian to an Eternal Hell for sinning the same sin I am committing!

If this is not true, why would we see people fight God so hard, correct Him, and argue for sin with such passion?

 

[Candidus]

I'm not critical of anyone acheiving anything, I'm just wondering if your walk matches your talk. If you truly believe what you teach.

And if what you say is true, and if you are not without any sin, then what would make you qualified teacher? I'd prefer in that case a Christian teacher, not a phony one who sins. If that were true.

Much love!

I'm not the one stuck on "achieving" states of grace as those who oppose holiness on the Board do!

Does being Born-Again make one a qualified teacher?

How we live and what we teach matters according to Scripture; "Be not many [of you] teachers, my brethren, knowing that we shall receive heavier judgment."

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Out of the abundance of the mouth the heart speaks.

All we really need do is review a person's postings.

Much love!

Keep watching them

They teach sinless

But they will make every excuse in the book to not come out and say if they still sin or not..

its par for the course