False morality and non-smokers

[IAmAWitness]

I want to know the opinions of members here: Is there a risk among non-smokers to have a false sense of morality?

Obviously smokiing is a visible evil, one sees it, smells it, you know smokers because you can see them and possibly smell it on their clothes. So some people, some I have met, have a judgmental and discriminatory attitude toward smokers. I suspect that deep down inside they have a sense of morality and that smoking in being harmful is an immoral thing. But what is not seen, on the other hand, is the inward struggle of every man. Each of us deals to greater or lesser degrees with a whole host of improprieties that the Bible calls out and condemns, asking us to give up those behaviors in order to become like our Father. So some can easily go on with spiritually blinded eyes and never confront the issues that tempt them the most. It is very easy to do so because on the flesh leve we don't want to confront or even admit of those things. It's why so many Christians are viewed as being hypocrites because they can't see their failings that even a blind person off the street could see. They go on ina false sense of morality and tend to view others with more visible failings as those carrying a mote their eyes, when they themselves have beams in their eyes.

It is easy to get sucked into this false sense of morality because we forget that what we see is not the full story. Not even half of the story, as we are all multi-dimensional characters and also we have spiritual realities of a world beyond our own that many times people forget about.

(By the way I am a smoker and am not right now not dealing with thoughts of not quitting).

What do you think?

 

[I am Second]

Smoking is not a sin. Drinking is not a sin. If you smoke yourself to death, that is another story. If you drink and get drunk same thing. If you eat yourself into obesity and they have to come remove your wall to get you out of the house, that is a sin. All things in moderation.

People like to look down their nose at other people for all kinds of reasons. The smell of smoke doesn't bother me. I'd rather smell that then a lot of other things I smell on people.

Where there’s smoke, there’s fire.
And where there’s fire in the Bible, there’s God.

 

[aspen]

smoking is not good for you - it is a sin against the body, but feeling guilty about an addiction is not going to help anyone quit. We all have struggles with addicts so rather than feeling superior to one another i think gratitude and compassion are called for.

 

[biggandyy]

Cigarettes themselves aren't bad, and perhaps even beneficial. The additives to keep the cigarette lit, the fillers, and other components aren't the greatest but the nicotine itself is proving to be a benefit to people even though the delivery system is less than ideal.

http://www.aan.com/elibrary/neurologytoday/?event=home.showArticle&id=ovid.com:/bib/ovftdb/00132985-201201190-00008

 

[Warrior]

My mom smokes, and She has a Heart of Gold. God Judges the Heart!

 

[Arnie Manitoba]

I became a christian in 1986 and it was like a snap of the fingers and all my bad habits went away ..... except for smoking for some reason.

I simply cannot quit .... yet I can easily decline any other temptations ..... go figure.

I have smoked two packs a day for over 40 years. Yikes.!!!

I think smoking is unhealthy , it is expensive , and it stinks.

.....

Japan and Hungary are the two countries in the world with the highest rates of cigarette smokers
Japan and Hungary are the two countries in the world with the lowest rates of lung cancer and emphysema
Go figure.

In North America the demographic group who are having the largest increase in lung cancers are 51 year old women who have never smoked or been around second hand smoke.

The number one killer right now is heart disease and breast cancer in women.

This seem cruel and unfair but is factual. Doctors are puzzled. They thought cigarette smoking was the worst thing but something else is apparently the cause.

 

[Foreigner]

Cigarettes themselves aren't bad, and perhaps even beneficial.

Ummm, no......

http://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/data_statistics/fact_sheets/health_effects/tobacco_related_mortality/

According to the Center for Disease Control:

- One out of every five deaths in the United States is attributed to smoking
- Over 440,000 die in the United States alone every year due to smoking
- On average, adults who smoke die 14 years earlier than those who don't.

Also:
- Second hand smoke kills 3,400 a year due to lung cancer
- Second hand smoke kills 46,000 a year due to heart disease

The number of people in the US killed every year by second-hand smoke is FOUR TIMES GREATER than the number of people killed in the US every year by guns.

So the next time you see all those smokers standing around at an anti-gun rally.... <_<

In fact, the CDC states, "More deaths are caused each year by tobacco use than by all deaths from HIV, illegal drug use, alcohol use, motor vehicle injuries, suicides, and murders combined."




.

 

[IAmAWitness]

So Foreigner would rather have HIV than be a smoker?

 

[I am Second]

Last time I checked smoking is still legal. Non smokers act like it's not. I'm not a full time smoker but I do enjoy one now and again.

What makes cigarettes so unhealthy is all of the additives they put in them. If you are a smoker you should buy loose additive free cigarette tobacco from a smoke shop. Then buy a box of tubes which are the empty cigarette with an attached filter. I bought a cigarette injector for $100.00 at the smoke shop and stuff them myself. The bag of tobacco is $25.00 the box of tubes is $2.00 and the bag makes a carton of cigarettes. Cheap!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nIPbrTph-Ng Here is the one I use.

 

[Foreigner]

So Foreigner would rather have HIV than be a smoker?

-- So IAmAWitness do you have any questions that actually serve a purpose and are worth answering?

Last time I checked smoking is still legal. Non smokers act like it's not. I'm not a full time smoker but I do enjoy one now and again.

What makes cigarettes so unhealthy is all of the additives they put in them. If you are a smoker you should buy loose additive free cigarette tobacco from a smoke shop. Then buy a box of tubes which are the empty cigarette with an attached filter. I bought a cigarette injector for $100.00 at the smoke shop and stuff them myself. The bag of tobacco is $25.00 the box of tubes is $2.00 and the bag makes a carton of cigarettes. Cheap!

Again with the all-inclusive (and thus dishonest) claim that non-smokers like, but is simply not true.
Some, perhaps, but not all.

What the majority believe is that it should not be allowed in certain places.
Specifically enclosed spaces where smoking can cause health damage and perhaps even death to those who don't smoke.

Another large group find it incredibly unfair that the medical costs of smokers and the victims of second-hand smoke continue to drive up the insurance costs for EVERYONE, including non-smokers. They think it is unfair that have to pay an ever-increasing penalty for the poor health habits of others.

If your response to their concerns is, "TOO DARN BAD" then perhaps you can understand their unwillingness to be overly support of your nasty habit.



If I take my family into an enclosed location like a restaurant, I don't think it is fair that I have to breath in the smoke, deal with the smell, and have our health put at risk because a smoker has no problem risking other people's health in order to indulge his habit.

The CDC says almost 50,000 people a year die from second-hand smoke in the U.S.
But it doesn't mention the tens and thousands more who don't die but are hospitalized with everything from respiratory disease up through and including cancer.
It not only destroys their health but their pocketbook, as well.

So perhaps you should take a moment and understand where the hostility comes from.



You want to smoke? Knock yourself out. It is absolutely your right.
But when you do it near me or my family, you are forcing us to participate with you.

The health risk (including increased health costs for all) does not justify forcing businesses to have indoor smoking sections.

But if you don't want to understand the responsibility that comes with that right, then your difficulty finding a sympathetic audience only illicits crocodile tears from me.



The device you show may work. But I don't see tens of millions of smokers nationwide eventually using them.
And that would be the need before smoking could be mainstreamed back into American life.




.

 

[I am Second]

Who wants to smoke around your family? Did I say people should smoke in restaurants? What are you so excited about? If someone wants to lite a cig on their deck after dinner that is their business. Chill out and don't be a hater. lol

 

[biggandyy]

Unfortunately that is the debate level of the anti-cig crowd. Make a strawman out of thin air and then burst into histrionics against it.

 

[I am Second]

He sounds irrational, good grief! What a hater, lol.

 

[Warrior]

Again, It is only an opinion that smoking can make someone go to hell or something like that.......Smoking cigarettes does not Change anyone's Christian attitude.....It is all judgemental

 

[Arnie Manitoba]

Lets discuss misleading statistics for a minute.

I am 61 year old smoker and I will die some day.
I could die today or when I am 81 or 91 it doesn't matter
They will put down the cause as a tobacco related death.
That is how they get the "artificially high" smoker-death statistics.


Another cute way they fool everybody is by saying smokers are twice as likely to die from lung cancer than non-smokers.
Here is how they come up with that

You have 14 people who have never smoked ..... 1 will die of lung cancer
You have 14 people who all smoke ..... 2 will die of lung cancer

So they say you have "double" the chance of getting cancer if you smoke.

But that is a false way to state it ..... for the following reasons ....

Out of the 14 smokers .... 1 was going to get cancer anyway .... even if they did not smoke
So the true way to state it is that out of 13 smokers 1 will get cancer because of smoking


The factual way to present the statistic should be as follows ....

A non-smoker has 1 chance in 14 of getting lung cancer

The smoker has a 1 chance in 13 of getting lung cancer

 

[Warrior]

Lets discuss misleading statistics for a minute.

I am 61 year old smoker and I will die some day.
I could die today or when I am 81 or 91 it doesn't matter
They will put down the cause as a tobacco related death.
That is how they get the "artificially high" smoker-death statistics.


Another cute way they fool everybody is by saying smokers are twice as likely to die from lung cancer than non-smokers.
Here is how they come up with that

You have 14 people who have never smoked ..... 1 will die of lung cancer
You have 14 people who all smoke ..... 2 will die of lung cancer

So they say you have "double" the chance of getting cancer if you smoke.

But that is a false way to state it ..... for the following reasons ....

Out of the 14 smokers .... 1 was going to get cancer anyway .... even if they did not smoke
So the true way to state it is that out of 13 smokers 1 will get cancer because of smoking


The factual way to present the statistic should be as follows ....

A non-smoker has 1 chance in 14 of getting lung cancer

The smoker has a 1 chance in 13 of getting lung cancer

Agreed, And really they only use the "Statistics" On commercials to try to sell some product anyways.....Everyone dies someday, and Smoking is not going to change anything. Its a man made belief

 

[Arnie Manitoba]

Nicotine is what we smokers want and our choice of nicotine delivery is via cigarettes
We are treated like the scourge of society because of that
And everybody is quick to bash "Big Tobacco"

I suppose that would be fair except for the following.....

The medical and pharmaceutical industry are not actually against nicotine
Just the delivery system ... they prefer we use their delivery system
The medical and pharmaceutical industry promotes the use of nicotine on a regular basis
Mostly in the form of Nicorette gum ..... it is advertised daily on TV
"Big Tobacco" has now been surpassed by "Big Nicorette"

Nicotine has the beneficial effect of filtering out negative stimuli to our brains
Nicotine increases problem solving skills by 15-25 %

 

[Warrior]

Nicotine is what we smokers want and our choice of nicotine delivery is via cigarettes
We are treated like the scourge of society because of that
And everybody is quick to bash "Big Tobacco"

I suppose that would be fair except for the following.....

The medical and pharmaceutical industry are not actually against nicotine
Just the delivery system ... they prefer we use their delivery system
The medical and pharmaceutical industry promotes the use of nicotine on a regular basis
Mostly in the form of Nicorette gum ..... it is advertised daily on TV
"Big Tobacco" has now been surpassed by "Big Nicorette"

Nicotine has the beneficial effect of filtering out negative stimuli to our brains
Nicotine increases problem solving skills by 15-25 %

I Noticed that. My Mom smokes and she does all kinds of puzzles all day lol never noticed that before.

 

[Foreigner]

He sounds irrational, good grief! What a hater, lol.

-- This from the guy who said, "Last time I checked smoking is still legal. Non smokers act like it's not."
Pot, meet kettle.

Unfortunately that is the debate level of the anti-cig crowd. Make a strawman out of thin air and then burst into histrionics against it.

-- You are the one silly enough to say "Smoking may be beneficial." :lol:
Sorry, but I'm not going to feel bad for making you look silly.

 

[biggandyy]

I backed it up with facts, not bluster.