False Doctrine of the "Secret Rapture".

[Timtofly]

`Tim, in the winepress of God's wrath, the blood will rule 1600 furlongs, 200 miles, the length of Israel. But there will be people still alive on the earth, that Jesus will rule over, who are not part of the great tribulation saints..

When Jesus returns, He will rule the nations with a rod of iron. It will be the heathen nations.

Psalms 2:
8 Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.

9 Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.

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Matthew 13:30 does not say "final" harvest, but is a parable about the kingdom of heaven.

The passage text spoken by Jesus does not mention the winepress of God's wrath.

Matthew 25 does not refer to a harvest. Matthew 13:39-44 does. Is that the passage you were referring to? If so, that passage refer to the good seed and the tares. And is broad in scope to the final destination of wicked versus the righteous. And the precious valuable of the kingdom of heaven.

The final harvest is the people that rule and their offspring are ruled over. They wait on the sea of glass until the 7th Trumpet stops sounding. All are changed out of Adam's corruptible flesh. The entire rest of humanity are killed and the river of blood is literal or just symbolic of ALL flesh now dead.

Matthew 25 covers the tribes of Jacob, part of the final harvest. It is a harvest, because the sheep are redeemed out of Adam's dead corruptible flesh, into God's permanent incorruptible physical body. They wait on the sea of glass. The goats are the majority of Jacob, cast alive into the LOF. But no one is left on the earth in a state of sin and death.

If you compare it to the Flood, then add the benefit of redemption out of Adam's dead flesh at the same time, you will understand the Second Coming. Unlike Noah, who carried sin into a new heaven and earth, the redeemed will not carry sin and death into the Day of the Lord.

Matthew 13:30 is the parable. The explanation is in verses 37-41

"The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend."

This is not the gathering Paul talked about. Paul was talking about the church removed first. The church is glorified in the 5th Seal. But when Jesus comes to Jerusalem in the 6rh Seal, that is when the final harvest on earth starts. People will be judged in Jerusalem. Not that Jesus goes to every village on the entire earth and sows the seed, but Jesus is gathering a following from all other nations, while Satan is also gathering a following. So all the tares are left until the end. But the tares also will be gathered, and that is your equivalency of the winepress at one time, but the wheat is gathered and waiting on the sea of glass. The 144k are linked to the sowing of the seed as well in some fashion.

This is not the church and kingdom of heaven already gathered. This is the final harvest during the Trumpets and Thunders while Jesus and the angels are on the earth.

Why is the throne remote for you? Satan will take over that throne and temple in Jerusalem, not some heavenly place remote from the earth. People are not trodden under foot a path between heaven and earth for 42 months.

You are stuck in the heathen mode as if the Day of the Lord is not a Sabbath holy unto God. A dead person is of no use to the living on the earth. If all were natural born sinners, they would all be literally physically dead. The punishment for breaking a law is still death. The point is, no one will have a desire to break the law, nor be burdened under the bondage of sin. Being heathen is the state prior to the Second Coming. Once redeemed, they don't go back to being heathens, but they are the same people who once were heathen.

The Second Coming is not Armageddon. That is a return from the sea of glass, those waiting for Satan's 42 months of AoD to finish. But if no 42 months, they will return immediately at the end of the winepress, when heaven and earth are made new after the blood flows from the grapes of the winepress in Revelation 14. They will not even remember the former things, when they are established throughout the earth at the start of the Day of the Lord. The judgments are what clears the way in preparation for the coming of the day of the Lord. The final harvest is part of those judgments.

 

[Douggg]

Matthew 25 covers the tribes of Jacob, part of the final harvest. It is a harvest, because the sheep are redeemed out of Adam's dead corruptible flesh, into God's permanent incorruptible physical body. They wait on the sea of glass. The goats are the majority of Jacob, cast alive into the LOF. But no one is left on the earth in a state of sin and death.

It does not say final harvest in Matthew 25. Matthew 25 has multiple parables in it about seeking first the Kingdom of God. The parables are about how to live with that priority in life.

You are stuck in the heathen mode as if the Day of the Lord is not a Sabbath holy unto God. A dead person is of no use to the living on the earth. If all were natural born sinners, they would all be literally physically dead. The punishment for breaking a law is still death. The point is, no one will have a desire to break the law, nor be burdened under the bondage of sin. Being heathen is the state prior to the Second Coming. Once redeemed, they don't go back to being heathens, but they are the same people who once were heathen.

Tim, the heathen don't believe in Jesus. So just stop with the accusations.

Christians like me are saved by the shed blood of Christ. Our soul has been redeemed, born again. And are looking for the rapture/resurrection event to redeem our bodies into everlasting eternal life bodies.

You are trying to prove you claim that there will be no more death, no more heathen alive, no more unsaved persons on earth after Jesus returns - which is wrong.

When Jesus returns, he will rule the heathen with a rod of Iron.

 

[Timtofly]

It does not say final harvest in Matthew 25. Matthew 25 has multiple parables in it about seeking first the Kingdom of God. The parables are about how to live with that priority in life.


Tim, the heathen don't believe in Jesus. So just stop with the accusations.

Christians like me are saved by the shed blood of Christ. Our soul has been redeemed, born again. And are looking for the rapture/resurrection event to redeem our bodies into everlasting eternal life bodies.

You are trying to prove you claim that there will be no more death, no more heathen alive, no more unsaved persons on earth after Jesus returns - which is wrong.

When Jesus returns, he will rule the heathen with a rod of Iron.

I never said you were a heathen. I said you are stuck in the mode that the heathen live on earth during the Day of the Lord. That is like saying sinners live in heaven.

He will rule over the heathen that are redeemed out of Adam's dead corruptible flesh. The church will live and reign from Paradise, in heaven, not on earth. These heathen not part of the church will rule over their offspring. But they will be righteous from birth, not heathen from birth.

From conception, they will have God's Word written in their hearts, instead of a sin nature. But in relation to the glorified church, they will still not be the church. They will be far better off than the church still in Adam's dead flesh like we are today. The church is not glorified after the Day of the Lord. The church is glorified in the 5th Seal, in conjunction with the 6th Seal, Second Coming.

Matthew 25 is the remnant of Israel living on the earth for the Millennial Kingdom. You make it sound like redemption is not about a harvest at all. Why does the word harvest have to be in the chapter? Let us see:

If the ten virgins are not about a harvest, they cannot be about the church either. The church has always been viewed as a harvest of souls out of a sin nature. The ten virgins would only cover Israel, not the church. But we know that half of Israel will not be redeemed only a third, remnant. Now there is a 50/50 chance that at the Second Coming an offspring of Israel will be of the Second Birth. Either an Israelite will be saved or will be lost, that is the 50% point. All saved Israelites will be taken with the church. The rest of Israel will be divided by who is a sheep or a goat.

Once again we see that Israel was given an opportunity to accept the second birth. What one did with that Second birth will be rewarded. You are still missing the point, that these people are dealt with after the Second Coming had already happened. Those part of the kingdom of heaven will leave with the church, but Jesus is dealing with the rest after the Second Coming. And it is based on works, not faith in the Gospel.

The Trumpets symbolize the call sent out to gather all of Israel from the earth and bring them to Jerusalem, not to heaven. Gathering them is a harvest term. And it is the angels who gather them, not public transportation. Israel is then divided between who is a sheep, redeemed, and who is a goat, tossed into the LOF. That is done on earth while they are still physically alive. The sheep are changed out of corruptible flesh into incorruptible physical bodies. That is called redemption and the change is likened to a harvest by Paul. A seed is planted and a different body comes out of the ground from the dead seed. Any time one is changed from old flesh to new flesh that is symbolic of a harvest. The difference between being a sheep and a goat. The sheep were all goats, and not sheep until changed. They did not belong to Jesus, they belonged to sin and death. When Jesus changed them, they became sheep, and that is a harvest out of being a goat. The word harvest does not have to be in the text. The result of redemption is the point of a harvest.

Would you say the church has been gathering a harvest for 1994 years? Is that a harvest realized now, or not until the Second Coming? Does the church enjoy heaven now or wait in death as if they are not redeemed yet, but have to wait for redemption after the Day of the Lord as some teach? Do you even see the word harvest as being a reality since the Cross? If you rule out a harvest at the Second Coming, do you put it off for another 1,000 years? What is the term harvest even for then?

The parables in Matthew 25 are in conjunction with the Second Coming of chapter 24. They are not general parables of how one lives prior to the Second Coming per se. Either one is prepared with the Second Birth or not. That is the problem, that the church has taught a works salvation using this chapter as a template for the Christian walk. This is about the state Jesus finds Jacob in at the Second Coming, not the church. Why would Jesus leave the church on the earth, or worse, toss the majority of the church into the LOF? Being the church is not a name tag one wears thinking they may not even be redeemed. If you have the Second Birth, you should know that, not guess you have the Second Birth.

 

[Douggg]

I never said you were a heathen. I said you are stuck in the mode that the heathen live on earth during the Day of the Lord. That is like saying sinners live in heaven.

Don't tie me to being a heathen in any manner.

He will rule over the heathen that are redeemed out of Adam's dead corruptible flesh

The heathen are unsaved people. Jesus when He returns will rule over the heathen with a rod of iron.