Oh my. How does that work.
Only God can save.
You seem to be saying that there is salvation in the Christian religion. (THE Faith)
Am I understanding you correctly?
Mark 11:22 NIV
“Have faith in God,” Jesus answered.
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Faith vs. "the Faith" - Which one was once delivered?
- Thread starter St. SteVen
- Start date
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Only God can save.
You seem to be saying that there is salvation in the Christian religion. (THE Faith)
Am I understanding you correctly?
Mark 11:22 NIV
“Have faith in God,” Jesus answered.
[
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
No that is not what I am saying. Exercising faith in "THEFaith" means placing your trust in the deat, burial and physical resurrection of Jesus for ones sins. that is THE Faith
I agree.
I'm good with that definition of "the faith" in Jude 1:3. Thanks.
"... I felt compelled to write and urge you to contend for..." [the faith/belief/trust in the death, burial and physical resurrection of Jesus]
"... that was once for all entrusted to God’s holy people."
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Pavel Mosko
Member
I suspect I may have inspired this thread in some way since I am probably the fondest one here in citing that verse. :) Seeing this also is somewhat timely because I have been wanting to do a thread on the Eastern Christian approach to dogma etc.
The short answer is we not only look to the Bible but also the testimony of the ancient Church on these matters. There often is enormous unanimity on many issues that various differing Protestants traditions tend to fight about. But some issues have to shake out over time as far as theological development goes, not to mention you can have different kinds of theories or paradigms that come from specific heritages as far as the ancient church goes.
But in general, everyone uses saint Vincent's canon officially or unofficially and the basic approach of the Faith is the same no matter what the heritage is. In other words, Latin's, Syriacs, Greeks, Coptic / Egyptians, Armenians, Ethiopians, Malankara Indians and Church of the East etc. have the same basic belief and approach in ancient times and that kind of unity of belief is also a basis for modern Ecumenical talks when you got more divisive issues like more modern developments in Roman Catholicism regarding Papal Infallibility and Supremacy. Typically, Catholics have to accept the older standards as the basis for doing agreements if they want to do business.
Pavel Mosko
Member
Well, I have been toying around with doing my own in-depth thread on the issue, but I tend to see a lot of the typical sloganeering on issues like this so that makes me less likely to do it (as far as a fruitless time sink). But to carry on a bit here, since I know you are interested, a lot of the difference in the OP comes from what you are not asking, namely Paradosis, what is typically simply called tradition in the Bible, which is sometimes given a capitol T by Catholics and Orthodox to indicate the basic Gospel and general New Testament narrative. This includes basic testimonies of the Church on certain basic issues of salvation, Christian morality and church conduct, as well as the testimony for beliefs that would find themselves in the ancient creeds, and other church life. This all includes the testimony in regard to the New Testament books themselves, back when they are separate scrolls or sheets of papyrus. If you wanted a concrete example of this I would really have to point you to things like the Didache and some of the verified letters of Ignatius of Antioch as examples to what I'm talking about.
Didache. The Teaching of the Twelve Apostles (translation Roberts-Donaldson).
Didache. The Teaching of the Twelve Apostles (translation Roberts-Donaldson). On Early Christian Writings.
www.earlychristianwritings.com
CHURCH FATHERS: Epistle to the Magnesians (St. Ignatius)
Featuring the Church Fathers, Catholic Encyclopedia, Summa Theologica and more.
Besides the above I would also have to include Early Church customs around worship spelled out in places like these sites.
Liturgica.com | Liturgics | Early Christian Liturgics | The Jewish Components of Christian Worship
Liturgica.com presents an experience and a comprehensive understanding of the development of liturgical worship and music in the Judeo-Christian traditions. Liturgical music and books can be purchased from the Liturgica Web Store. Books and religious music are available in a wide variety of...
I would also have to throw in "The Old Roman Creed" (the starting point basis of the Apostles Creed).
Old Roman Symbol - Wikipedia
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What I am trying to determine is what Jude was referring to in Jude 1:3 when he wrote his Epistle. ???
What was "the faith" once delivered to the saints. Not a later development that BECAME Tradition.
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Pavel Mosko
Member
In terms of the that verse it is literally the notion of Christ as the object and fulfillment of Old Testament revelation and the various expositions of the Apostles on the significance of that fact and it's meaning to everyday life and worship of God as shown in the various epistles we have and other ones that have been lost with time.
But you should take a look at those links because they actually represent the earliest Christian tradition around that stuff where the Apostolic Fathers are basically quoting or paraphrasing various Bible passages. The only "new" material in there actually deals with problems going starting in Biblical times itself like people being taken in by the Judaizers, the Docetic Gnostics, abusing the gift of prophecy, having services away from the local bishop and so on.
One point that I would like to make more on these kind of topics is how "The Apostolic Preaching" precedes the Bible (as shown in the book of Acts), and that is very significance in many ways. Like the Roman Creed I cited at the end, It also is significant in many other related things talked about (like against Sabbatarians arguing their point of view).
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I would also have to throw in "The Old Roman Creed" (the starting point basis of the Apostles Creed).
Old Roman Symbol - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
Old Roman Creed
I believe in God the Father almighty;
and in Christ Jesus His only Son, our Lord,
Who was born of the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary,
Who under Pontius Pilate was crucified and buried,
on the third day rose again from the dead,
ascended to heaven,
sits at the right hand of the Father,
whence He will come to judge the living and the dead;
and in the Holy Spirit,
the holy Church,
the remission of sins,
the resurrection of the flesh
(the life everlasting).
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From the OP.
- What's the difference between faith and "the Faith"?
- What faith was once delivered/entrusted to us?
- Was it faith, or "the Faith"?
- Is faith from God?
- Is "the Faith" man-made?
Jude 3 KJV
Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation,
it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.
--- COMPARE ---
Jude 3 NIV
Dear friends, although I was very eager to write to you about the salvation we share,
I felt compelled to write and urge you to contend for the faith that was once for all entrusted to God’s holy people.
[
- What's the difference between faith and "the Faith"?
- What faith was once delivered/entrusted to us?
- Was it faith, or "the Faith"?
- Is faith from God?
- Is "the Faith" man-made?
Jude 3 KJV
Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation,
it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.
--- COMPARE ---
Jude 3 NIV
Dear friends, although I was very eager to write to you about the salvation we share,
I felt compelled to write and urge you to contend for the faith that was once for all entrusted to God’s holy people.
[
Jud 1:3 ᾿Αγαπητοί, πᾶσαν σπουδὴν ποιούμενος γράφειν ὑμῖν περὶ τῆς κοινῆς σωτηρίας, ἀνάγκην ἔσχον γράψαι ὑμῖν παρακαλῶν ἐπαγωνίζεσθαι τῇ ἅπαξ παραδοθείσῃ τοῖς ἁγίοις πίστει.
Strong's G3588
ὁ, ἡ, τό
ho hē to
ho, hay, to
The masculine, feminine (second) and neuter (third) forms, in all their inflections; the definite article; the (sometimes to be supplied, at others omitted, in English idiom): - the, this, that, one, he, she, it, etc.
"the [once for all having been delivered to the saints] faith".
It is not the saints' faith. It is delivered to the [τοις] saints. The τῇ is the article for faith.
I might have been able to give you a decent answer to that once, but my studies for my Greek courses were over 60 years ago and I didn't keep up with it. I wish I had. But I [τοις] is the definite article for the saints.
Lambano
Well-Known Member
Both "faith" and "saints" have the article. As you can see from your chart, τῇ (te, "the", or technically "for the"; the "for" is unspoken) is DFS (Dative case, Feminine noun, Singular), as is πίστει. (pistei, "faith"). That's how you know which one goes with which.
See what I remember from Junior High School German classes taken 50 years ago? Case-gender agreement of article and noun. English doesn't have a Dative case (and most nouns aren't gendered, praise and thanksgiving be to God), but conceptually, it is the unspoken "to" with the indirect object in the sentence, "He threw St. Steven the ball". I learned a lot about English from studying German.
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Ritajanice
Born-Again
Faith is most definitely a gift from God.
He gave me the faith to believe in his Son.
Now , there is no question in my heart ,that Jesus is the Son Of God, that came by divine heart revelation.
100% I believe that Jesus was the Son Of God.
Now comes the hard part, for me anyway, trusting/ believing ,that God is in control of every area of our lives,
It’s taken 33 years to finally say.
that I have handed my life over to God, your will God, not my will...I look to him for everything ,it’s a Father / daughter relationship.....if God planted that seed of faith into your heart, it will grow and blossom into a beautiful tree...the tree of Life...that life/ our life, can only be in Jesus.
Full surrender to the Lord..is the only way....Galatians 5:24-25. God expects us to surrender in every part of our life. We are to walk in the Spirit in everything we do to produce good works for His glory. “24 And those who are Christ's have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires
Just my testimony/ thoughts/ belief.
4. John 15:26: The Holy Ghost testifies of Jesus Christ
Jesus taught that “when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me” (John 15:26). Latter-day Saints believe that one of the main roles of the Holy Ghost is to testify of truth, especially of Jesus Christ and His divinity! It is only through the Holy Ghost that we can receive a testimony that Jesus Christ is the Son of God and the Redeemer of the World
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