Faith: True and False
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Zachariah.
Member
I wrote it myself. And wether you see it as an opinion doesnt matter. Its True. ;)
But it's not really my opinion. That's just your opinion that it's my opinion.
And that's just the silly excuse you tell yourself so you can always continue to believe what you want. Sorry, but life doesn't work that way. God bless.
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Justification by works
Romans 4:3-8 KJV
3) For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
4) Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
5) But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
6) Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
7) Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.
8) Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.
Much love!
Yeah, thanks to various "Ligonier" teachers, I'm aware of this justification doctrine.
I wonder if you're aware of the justifications taught in Romans 2:6-16 (eschatological), or in 14:5,23 (moment to moment)? Or the fact that James says you're not justified by faith alone but by both having faith and by living out that faith?
Jas 1:1 James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.
Rom 2:1 Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things.
Who is the "O man?"
Rom 2:17 Behold, thou art called a Jew, and restest in the law, and makest thy boast of God,
Though it may be desirous to try and usurp some of Israel’s prophecies or promises, the natural reading of Romans 2:28-29 does not teach that the church today, where there is neither Jew nor Gentile, is spiritual Israel.
We can determine this first by establishing who the passage is addressing.
‘Thou Art Called a Jew’
“Behold, thou art called a Jew, and restest in the law, and makest thy boast of God” – Romans 2:17
Romans 2:17 indicates the audience of the passage as those that are called Jews. He continues in the next three verses speaking about how the Jews were given the wisdom of the law.
So then, he that is called a Jew is the same who was given the oracles of God and was given the promises, covenants, and service of God (Romans 3:2, 9:4). The target audience of the passage is physical Israel, those of the house of Jacob.
The Name of God Blasphemed
“Thou that makest thy boast of the law, through breaking the law dishonourest thou God? For the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles through you, as it is written” – Romans 2:23-24
As we continue through the passage we see that Paul starts to address a problem with his blessed nation Israel. Israel makes their boast in the law, but they fail to do the law. Israel the people named after God, have become as vain as the Gentiles given up by God in Romans 1 (Romans 1:24,26,28).
The Issue of Circumcision
“For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision. “ – Romans 2:25
When God gave the covenant to Abraham, he instituted circumcision as the token that Israel was keeping the covenant (Genesis 17:10-14). If they break the law then the token of keeping it is made worthless. The circumcision sign is made vanity and just as if they were uncircumcised.
“Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision? And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law?” – Romans 2:26-27
You see this?
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Ligonier, that's RC Sproul, right?
OK. So try to forget about him for the moment, and focus on the passage of Romans. There's no "doctrine" here, just the reading of Scripture.
The Word says what it says. Don't try to parse it into not meaning what it says.
Much love!
Whatever "The Word says" is the "teaching" or "doctrine".
Yeah, I'm aware of this doctrine, but I'm also aware of other justification doctrines.
I'm glad we agree on that.
Romans 4:4-5 KJV
4) Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
5) But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
Who is justified? The one who works? Or the one who does not?
Romans 4:6-8 KJV
6) Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
7) Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.
8) Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.
Much love!
This is why I like quoting the Scriptures, as we can just focus on what they say, and not other teachings.
Much love!
You're very keen on discussing this snippet, as if it represented the whole of doctrine on the subject. If only that were the case.
I really wanted this thread to be about true and false faith in John's Gospel, not about justification by faith or by works.
Sorry for their confusion. I've made two threads now that have failed to start the kind of conversatioms I've wanted.
Behold
Well-Known Member
You "cite" and i teach.
That's not going to change.
And all i teach is Pauline Theology.
Google it.
As if? Not really.
You don't really seem to know what's in my mind, so maybe it's better to let me speak for me?
Much love!
Well, when you dismiss the other doctrines, yeah, how else am I to interpret what you're doing?
Again, I failed to produce the kind of conversation I'd wanted here bc of the preface I included in the OP opening. Lol
I'm sorry, I didn't mean to tank your thread! I'll duck out, but if you have something you want to follow up on, either this topic, or your original intent - faith in John's Gospel - let me know.
Much love!
Yes, I agree, they were believing in Him, but not in a way that allowed them to accept what He said. So therefore I'm thinking you are correct here, that they had their own ideas about God, and believed in them.
I've come to see how I can do the same thing, and it often comes to mind how much greater God is than my mind can hold. And how much different He is from me in the way He sees things.
These had believed in Him, but then He said something they couldn't process, that they were slaves, that He could free them. Instead of defending themselves, they should have yielded, submitted, repented.
They had come to believe in Him, but they did not believe Him, when He told them these things.
Compare to Abraham, who believed God, and that believing was credited to Abraham as though he were a righteous man.
Much love!
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