Ezekiel 37 I can't wrap my head around this, any help would be a blessing

[Episkopos]

I'm not sure if I am a dispensationalist or not. I don't hold to some solidarity with israel, but concerning the gospel, as the apostle says, they are enemies for my sake, but as touching the election they are beloved for God's sake. Their fall brought me riches, as the apostle say s.

In roman s 11, the apostle speaks plainly enough. Their blindness will be lifted.

If you hold to the same view as unbelieving Jews....you are a dispie. :)

 

[Episkopos]

Wow Is this what Yahushua meant by loving our neighbor? Sharing our beliefs and being attacked for them? We will never all agree, that's why I came here - I can't find a physical church. Satan loves us attacking each other. Sadness did I mistakenly put this in the debate forum?

Love does cast out all fears. But doctrinal fears abound. Not everyone will be able to put up with all the slithering flesh to be found on Christian forums.

But if we have overcome our own slithering flesh...then perhaps we can be patient with others who have yet to do so.

Well, at least that's how I see it! :)

Peace to you

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Paul said....the flesh profits nothing. All of his accomplishments and even his Jewish birthright...he counted as dung.

Why?

So that he could win Christ.

Now this may sound very strange to you.

So then what Paul counted as dung...people have grovelled over. Imagine what kind of beggary one would have to be reduced to to grovel after dung. Yet people take great pride in this carnal pursuit. People love to wave the flag.

Is dung eternal? No.

But the stench of dung is surely so.

So then no one knows what God has planned in eternity...but we know that the former things (like right now) will not be remembered.

Conclusion: We cannot hold on to the flesh with it's imaginations, reasonings and attributes. These have become dung to us...IF we are to win Christ.

I get what you are saying. But we are of His flesh, The incorruptible. All things made new. Ephesians 5:27-30 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish. [28] So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself. [29] For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church: [30] For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.

Jude 1:23
[23] And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh.

How do you reconcile these verses?

 

[stunnedbygrace]

If you hold to the same view as unbelieving Jews....you are a dispie. :)

If I held to the same view as unbelieving jews, I would not believe Jesus is Lord...but you can't be saying dispies do not believe Jesus is Lord so...I obviously have not understood you.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Dispensationalists have a ulterior motive....besides the changing face of creation. They seek to avoid the cross of Christ by making it a "Jewish" thing.

One must not lose sight of the bigger picture.



Oh my. I can see the programming here...

I am still not done with that video so I still do not know if I am a "dispie," but you are saying that dispies...do not pick up their cross and follow their Lord? That they try to avoid their cross?

 

[Hidden In Him]

Gnostics believe they will be judged by their BELIEFS (by what they call grace) and not their ACTIONS.

Yes, but it's your beliefs that I'm calling into question, not your actions, LoL.

I have the biblical stance that all men will be judged by what they DO....NOT by what they believe,

Ok, see that's a problem. We will also be held accountable for what we teach (James 3:1). Again, I'm not all hot-tempered; I'm simply having a discussion with you. But this is where I think you're going astray. You have such an aversion to the flesh that I'd be surprised if you even believe it will be redeemed. Do you believe our mortal bodies will be redeem and glorified, or do you believe something else?

So I ask you....how do you feel about gnostic theology? Do you realize just how much you have accepted of this?

I believe the flesh wars against the Spirit, but when redeemed it will be restored to obedience to the Spirit and no longer do so. I'm not the one who's going around saying the flesh is "dung, dung, dung," LoL!

Wow Is this what Yahushua meant by loving our neighbor? Sharing our beliefs and being attacked for them? We will never all agree, that's why I came here - I can't find a physical church. Satan loves us attacking each other. Sadness did I mistakenly put this in the debate forum?

Don't worry. I don't know about Episkopos, but I'm not taking offense or writing in an vengeful spirit or anything. Just having a discussion with him. :)

And most threads end up in debates, so it really doesn't matter where you put it all that much.

Blessings in Christ,
Hidden

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Yes, but it's your beliefs that I'm calling into question, not your actions, LoL.


Ok, see that's a problem. We will also be held accountable for what we teach (James 3:1). Again, I'm not all hot-tempered; I'm simply having a discussion with you. But this is where I think you're going astray. You have such an aversion to the flesh that I'd be surprised if you even believe it will be redeemed. Do you believe our mortal bodies will be redeem and glorified, or do you believe something else?


I believe the flesh wars against the Spirit, but when redeemed it will be restored to obedience to the Spirit and no longer do so. I'm not the one who's going around saying the flesh is "dung, dung, dung," LoL!


Don't worry. I don't know about Episkopos, but I'm not taking offense or writing in an vengeful spirit or anything. Just having a discussion with him. :)

And most threads end up in debates, so it really doesn't matter where you put it all that much.

Blessings in Christ,
Hidden

I understand what you say here. But there are also A few vss to the effect that no flesh will be in heaven or inherit, if have to look it up. I guess...we were born of corrupted seed. Corrupted seed doesn't inherit heaven. It will be a new body we are raised in and the apostle says we don't quite know what that body will be.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

And we are told This body of flesh will die because of sin but our spirit is being renewed. Have to look that one up too. Not lazy, just shaky. Car wreck. I'm okay just bruised. But hey, I got to come back and talk when I didn't want to stop talking with you guys anyway!☺

 

[Enoch111]

How do you reconcile these verses?

The confusion arises because the same word "flesh" (Greek sarkx) is applied to two different things: (1) the human body (Eph 5) and (2) the sin nature within the soul of every person (Jude 1).

Context should clarify this quite easily. While Christ was "manifest in the flesh" there was no "flesh" within His soul. However, for Christians, the inner flesh is not eradicated while they are on earth.

 

[Hidden In Him]

I understand what you say here. But there are also A few vss to the effect that no flesh will be in heaven or inherit, if have to look it up. I guess...we were born of corrupted seed. Corrupted seed doesn't inherit heaven. It will be a new body we are raised in and the apostle says we don't quite know what that body will be.

And we are told This body of flesh will die because of sin but our spirit is being renewed. Have to look that one up too. Not lazy, just shaky. Car wreck. I'm okay just bruised. But hey, I got to come back and talk when I didn't want to stop talking with you guys anyway!☺

Glad to hear you made it ok. :)

About the flesh being corrupted, there's no question about that. The dispute is over whether it will be resurrected as flesh or as something else, and the scriptures don't teach that it will be anything other. David declared in Psalm 16:9, "Therefore my heart rejoiced and my tongue exulted; moreover also my flesh shall rest in hope." The word used in the Greek Old Testament here is σάρξ, the same Greek word always translated "flesh" in the NT, and the same word used in Acts 2:26 when this verse is quoted from the OT. Why would his flesh rest in hope if it was not going to be "saved" in the same sense that the spirit and soul will be?

Anyway, to each is own.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Meh...okay. I see it more as...my flesh will be at rest in my hope. Like, all flesh keep silent, or God slaying my enemies which were found in my own house.

But it's no big deal. As our sister says, it's not a beach to die on. ☺

 

[Episkopos]

Ok, see that's a problem. We will also be held accountable for what we teach (James 3:1). Again, I'm not all hot-tempered; I'm simply having a discussion with you. But this is where I think you're going astray. You have such an aversion to the flesh that I'd be surprised if you even believe it will be redeemed. Do you believe our mortal bodies will be redeem and glorified, or do you believe something else?

Teaching is another matter. Not everyone is going to teach. Teachers are held to a higher standard.

When I say the flesh I am mainly speaking of the power of the flesh...the works of the flesh....the carnal man. The body can be holy. We have this treasure in earthen vessels.

There is a big difference between IN the flesh and ACCORDING to the flesh.

Paul didn't hate his own body...but he made no provision for the flesh to fulfill it's lusts. Our bodies will be redeemed...just not in this flesh...or the limited power of it.

I believe the flesh wars against the Spirit, but when redeemed it will be restored to obedience to the Spirit and no longer do so. I'm not the one who's going around saying the flesh is "dung, dung, dung," LoL!

This is where the confusion lies. You are not making the correct distinction between the power of the flesh and this mortal body. VERY different things. But you are making them out to be the same things.

The works of the flesh are dung.

 

[Episkopos]

I am still not done with that video so I still do not know if I am a "dispie," but you are saying that dispies...do not pick up their cross and follow their Lord? That they try to avoid their cross?

I'm saying the doctrine does this....not individual people. I judge the doctrine not the person. People get victimized by doctrines...because they lack understanding.

Dispensationalism was created by a man called Darby in the 1800's.

Messianic Jews fully embrace Darbyism...because it favours the natural over the spiritual.

Messianic Jews usually have more in common with unbelieving Jews than Christians...so it is a perfect fit.

Does Judaism deny the cross? Of course. But so does Darbyism....it is the same belief about the Jews.

 

[Hidden In Him]

This is where the confusion lies. You are not making the correct distinction between the power of the flesh and this mortal body. VERY different things. But you are making them out to be the same things.

Oh, brother... The reason we've been having this entire discussion the entire time is because YOU haven't made any distinction until now! (dingbat).

Remind me not to engage you in any more debates, LoL. What a colossal waste of time.

 

[Episkopos]

Oh, brother... The reason we've been having this entire discussion the entire time is because YOU haven't made any distinction until now! (dingbat).

Remind me not to engage you in any more debates, LoL. What a colossal waste of time.

Actually the confusion is shown right here in your own statement.

I believe the flesh wars against the Spirit, but when redeemed it will be restored to obedience to the Spirit and no longer do s

This shows you aren't making the proper distinction between a power...and skin cells.

 

[amadeus]

@stunnedbygrace

stunnedbygrace said: And we are told This body of flesh will die because of sin but our spirit is being renewed. Have to look that one up too. Not lazy, just shaky. Car wreck. I'm okay just bruised. But hey, I got to come back and talk when I didn't want to stop talking with you guys anyway

Glad to hear you're OK even if still shaky. Keeping you in prayer.

 

[Episkopos]

I get what you are saying. But we are of His flesh, The incorruptible. All things made new. Ephesians 5:27-30 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish. [28] So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself. [29] For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church: [30] For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.

Jude 1:23
[23] And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh.

How do you reconcile these verses?

It seems we are to have a love/hate relationship with ourselves. ;)

 

[Enoch111]

Does Judaism deny the cross? Of course. But so does Darbyism....it is the same belief about the Jews.

Your vain attempts to equate Dispensationalists with unbelieving Jews are despicable. You say above that *Darybism* (whatever that means) denies the cross. THAT IS AN OUTRIGHT LIE.

So here is the evidence from the words of John Nelson Darby that you are a liar:

"When I see God's love and purpose in dealing with sin in death and judgment-when I see this blessed One there-then I get this truth, that God has been occupied about sin in grace. When I see this blessed One putting Himself in such a place as this, I see that the whole question is brought before God and dealt with by Him in the Person of the Lord Jesus Christ. And then it is not as when God deals with us here, full of mercy and tender compassion for our infirmities; there was no mercy for Christ-no screen to hide and spare Him. He was the one divine Person capable of bearing all the weight of that burden, and willing to do so; and He did it.

And oh, what a spectacle it was! If God were to sweep away all in judgment, righteousness might be seen, but there would be no love; if He were to receive all passing over sin, there would be no righteousness. But, when Christ takes our place on the cross, we get divine righteousness against sin as nowhere else, yet infinite divine love to the sinner. Here all that God is was perfectly glorified, where sin was perfectly manifested, but where the Lord accomplished the work which put away sin."

Christ on the Cross - John Nelson Darby (#63092) - Bible Truth Library

 

[Episkopos]

Your vain attempts to equate Dispensationalists with unbelieving Jews are despicable. You say above that *Darybism* (whatever that means) denies the cross. THAT IS AN OUTRIGHT LIE.

So here is the evidence from the words of John Nelson Darby that you are a liar:

"When I see God's love and purpose in dealing with sin in death and judgment-when I see this blessed One there-then I get this truth, that God has been occupied about sin in grace. When I see this blessed One putting Himself in such a place as this, I see that the whole question is brought before God and dealt with by Him in the Person of the Lord Jesus Christ. And then it is not as when God deals with us here, full of mercy and tender compassion for our infirmities; there was no mercy for Christ-no screen to hide and spare Him. He was the one divine Person capable of bearing all the weight of that burden, and willing to do so; and He did it.

And oh, what a spectacle it was! If God were to sweep away all in judgment, righteousness might be seen, but there would be no love; if He were to receive all passing over sin, there would be no righteousness. But, when Christ takes our place on the cross, we get divine righteousness against sin as nowhere else, yet infinite divine love to the sinner. Here all that God is was perfectly glorified, where sin was perfectly manifested, but where the Lord accomplished the work which put away sin."

Christ on the Cross - John Nelson Darby (#63092) - Bible Truth Library

A Christian speaks with kindness and love. You could learn a lot from reading the bible and doing as it says. The devil is the accuser of the brethren. But I am not a liar.

Darbyism denies the cross of Christ. It denies that WE need to go to the cross. The devil can't stop Jesus from going to the cross. "It is finished". But the devil has been remarkably able to stop people from following Christ by going to the cross themselves. By false doctrine and appealing to the carnal mind of men. Darbyism is a prime example of this...whether you throw a fit or not. ;)

Now I have put you on ignore because I don't find any love, kindness, gentleness or grace in anything you have ever said. You are truly a product of a lie...the kind of lie you accuse me of.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

In all fairness, the problem of men not picking up their cross cannot be placed on the shoulders of Darby. The majority of christianity, even those who do not believe in a pre trib gathering, take offense at the notion of picking up their cross.

But it sounds like it would have been nice to meet The Open Brethren huh? :)