Everyone Goes to Heaven

[Hobie]

Hi Hobie. WIll not all sinners come to repentance? Meaning metanoia, a change of mind, μετάνοια? That which convinces a person that they must believe in Christ in order to be made clean of their sins?

That furnace of fire you mention in Matthew 13:40-51 is like the fire a blacksmith uses. Do they burn their iron forever? Or rather, do they burn it for a specific time, and then hammer at it, in order to form it into a desired shape?

2 Peter 3:9 KJB The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

2 Peter 3:9 - The Day of the Lord

The Lord is not slow in keeping His promise as some understand slowness, but is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish but everyone to come to repentance.

biblehub.com

And this fire that people are cast into in Matthew 7:19, I do not deny it's existence. Indeed, it burns people for a temporary amount of time, not endlessly. People are punished for the consequences of their sins, corrected, until they reach that repenant state, until theey are convinced to believe in Christ.

God bless my friend

Well lets take a look at what the Bible says will happen to the wicked...

Job 21:30 King James Version (KJV)
"30 That the wicked is reserved to the day of destruction? they shall be brought forth to the day of wrath."

Psalm 37:10 King James Version (KJV)
"10 For yet a little while, and the wicked shall not be: yea, thou shalt diligently consider his place, and it shall not be."

Psalm 37:20 King James Version (KJV)
"20 But the wicked shall perish, and the enemies of the Lord shall be as the fat of lambs: they shall consume; into smoke shall they consume away."

Psalm 37:28 King James Version (KJV)
"28 For the Lord loveth judgment, and forsaketh not his saints; they are preserved for ever: but the seed of the wicked shall be cut off."

Psalm 37:38 King James Version (KJV)
"38 But the transgressors shall be destroyed together: the end of the wicked shall be cut off."

Psalm 73:17-18 King James Version (KJV)
"17 Until I went into the sanctuary of God; then understood I their end.18 Surely thou didst set them in slippery places: thou castedst them down into destruction."

Psalm 92:7 King James Version (KJV)
"7 When the wicked spring as the grass, and when all the workers of iniquity do flourish; it is that they shall be destroyed for ever:"

Psalm 104:35 King James Version (KJV)
"35 Let the sinners be consumed out of the earth, and let the wicked be no more. Bless thou the Lord, O my soul. Praise ye the Lord."

Psalm 145:20 King James Version (KJV)
"20 The Lord preserveth all them that love him: but all the wicked will he destroy."

Proverbs 2:22 King James Version (KJV)
"22 But the wicked shall be cut off from the earth, and the transgressors shall be rooted out of it."

Nahum 1:9-10 King James Version (KJV)
"9 What do ye imagine against the Lord? he will make an utter end: affliction shall not rise up the second time.10 For while they be folden together as thorns, and while they are drunken as drunkards, they shall be devoured as stubble fully dry."

Malachi 4:1King James Version (KJV)
"4 For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the Lord of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch."

2 Thessalonians 1:8-9 King James Version (KJV)
"8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;"

2 Peter 2:6 King James Version (KJV)
"6 And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly;"

2 Peter 2:9-12 King James Version (KJV)
9 The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:10 But chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness, and despise government. Presumptuous are they, selfwilled, they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities.11 Whereas angels, which are greater in power and might, bring not railing accusation against them before the Lord.12 But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption;

2 Peter 3:7 King James Version (KJV)
"7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men."

Revelation 20:9 King James Version (KJV)
"9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them."

Revelation 21:8 King James Version (KJV)
"8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death."

Now you can see what Peter was talking about...

2 Peter 3:9-10 King James Version (KJV)
"9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. "

 

[BlessedPeace]

The soul returns to God who gave it.

 

[Jack]

Mt 25
41 Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:
Rev 20
10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

Yep, still there.

And, same Greek word, NEVER ending:

Matthew 25
46 "These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."

John 3:16 (NASB)
16 "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

 

[Harold]

My mother tells me that when she lived in the Philippines she would go to the dirty bathroom with candle and pail at night. Her downstairs would get flooded with dirty water.



I rebuke the evil infernalistic Iglesia Ni Cristo, which she was a former member of, for demanding so much money from those who are already trapped so deeply in poverty! What could they afford? Peanut butter bought per scoop; she tells me.



My mother says she would be scared of the sound of someone walking. It seems these noises may trigger traumatic memories because of all the rats that would crawl around the floor of her house.



1 Peter 5:7 ISV Throw all your worry on him, because he cares for you.



So, whenever my mother abuses my sister and I, whenever she tries to stop me from spreading my Christian Universalist Bible verses, that all shall have faith alone in Christ to gain permanent life, I see her throwing, projecting, her worries on to me. I forgive her, and still see her as a dear friend, so I will gladly take the role of a suffering sponge. How much more, will Jesus absorb the suffering, the trauma, of the whole world? Because he cares for all of us.

 

[Harold]

The soul returns to God who gave it.

Good point. All souls shall eventually be reconciled with God, as He is the origin of life. This reconciliation, only possible by belief in Jesus Christ, the only way to Heaven

Genesis 12:3 All peoples on earth will be blessed through Abraham.

 

[Jack]

My mother tells me that when she lived in the Philippines she would go to the dirty bathroom with candle and pail at night. Her downstairs would get flooded with dirty water.



I rebuke the evil infernalistic Iglesia Ni Cristo, which she was a former member of, for demanding so much money from those who are already trapped so deeply in poverty! What could they afford? Peanut butter bought per scoop; she tells me.



My mother says she would be scared of the sound of someone walking. It seems these noises may trigger traumatic memories because of all the rats that would crawl around the floor of her house.



1 Peter 5:7 ISV Throw all your worry on him, because he cares for you.



So, whenever my mother abuses my sister and I, whenever she tries to stop me from spreading my Christian Universalist Bible verses, that all shall have faith alone in Christ to gain permanent life, I see her throwing, projecting, her worries on to me. I forgive her, and still see her as a dear friend, so I will gladly take the role of a suffering sponge. How much more, will Jesus absorb the suffering, the trauma, of the whole world? Because he cares for all of us.

No such thing as "Christian Universalism" in the Bible. Hell will be filled with people who don't believe in Hell, and no doubt lots of 'Christian Universalists'.

 

[BlessedPeace]

Good point. All souls shall eventually be reconciled with God, as He is the origin of life. This reconciliation, only possible by belief in Jesus Christ, the only way to Heaven

Genesis 12:3 All peoples on earth will be blessed through Abraham.

That's a good point. The passage I shared is found in the Old testament. There too is the passage that tells us about Jesus as savior.

For me, when our soul comes from God, as does our flesh of course because everything made is created by and through God, it is a hard thing to reconcile that all knowing Father would send part of himself that he gave humanity, our soul, to burn for all eternity.

As punishment for our being exactly as made by God.

A bit of topic. I got home after work moments ago and turned the TV on. There was a news blurb talking about a government issue.

And right behind that was the show, Unexplained Mysteries. They were talking about the construction of the Hoover Dam.
The guests were too narcissistic for me, so I turned.
And then this thought arose.

One day, not in my lifetime, we will have to evolve as a species outside and away from the controls we let ourselves be contained by.

All our life is controlled by something but ourselves. Our freedom sense is arrived at by how well we comply, concede, consent, to those controls and the rewards for obedience.

And yet those controls are imperfect. Yet purport to bring civilization, law and order, to bear.

Even religion, holy books, are about control.

Obey, or burn forever. Obey and gain rewards after life.


And it is all because we are to believe we can't trust ourselves.

 

[Jack]

That's a good point. The passage I shared is found in the Old testament. There too is the passage that tells us about Jesus as savior.

For me, when our soul comes from God, as does our flesh of course because everything made is created by and through God, it is a hard thing to reconcile that all knowing Father would send part of himself that he gave humanity, our soul, to burn for all eternity.

As punishment for our being exactly as made by God.

A bit of topic. I got home after work moments ago and turned the TV on. There was a news blurb talking about a government issue.

And right behind that was the show, Unexplained Mysteries. They were talking about the construction of the Hoover Dam.
The guests were too narcissistic for me, so I turned.
And then this thought arose.

One day, not in my lifetime, we will have to evolve as a species outside and away from the controls we let ourselves be contained by.

All our life is controlled by something but ourselves. Our freedom sense is arrived at by how well we comply, concede, consent, to those controls and the rewards for obedience.

And yet those controls are imperfect. Yet purport to bring civilization, law and order, to bear.

Even religion, holy books, are about control.

Obey, or burn forever. Obey and gain rewards after life.


And it is all because we are to believe we can't trust ourselves.

You seem to have forgot what Jesus said.

Mt 25
41 Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:
Rev 20
10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

 

[BlessedPeace]

You seem to have forgot what Jesus said.

Mt 25
41 Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:
Rev 20
10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

Death and Hell were thrown into the lake of fire. Revelation 20:14

 

[Jack]

Death and Hell were thrown into the lake of fire. Revelation 20:14

They will be. Guess you missed this:

Rev 20
10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

 

[BlessedPeace]

They will be. Guess you missed this:

Rev 20
10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

No, I saw it.

 

[Hobie]

The soul returns to God who gave it.

According to scripture the "soul" is a living, breathing creature...human and animal. A "soul" (nephesh in Hebrew) was never a disembodied spirit. The Jews, like the Christians after them, succumbed to the lure of Platonic Greek notions of an immortal soul. It is not, and never was a Bible teaching. The Bible teaches resurrection which is through Christ at His second coming. Scripture tells us what happens when we die, it says it plainly.

Genesis 3:19

By the sweat of your face you shall eat bread, till you return to the ground, for out of it you were taken; for you are dust, and to dust you shall return.”

Job 7:21

Why then do you not pardon my transgression and take away my iniquity? For now I will lie down in the dust; And You will seek me, but I will not be."

Job 14:10,12

But man dies and lies prostrate man expires, and where is he? "As water evaporates from the sea, and a river becomes parched and dried up, so man lies down and does not rise. Until the heavens are no longer, he will not awake nor be aroused out of his sleep.

Psalm 115:17

The dead praise not the Lord, neither any that go down into silence.

Psalm 146:4

When his breath departs, he returns to the earth; on that very day his plans perish.

Ecclesiastes 3:19-20

For what happens to the children of man and what happens to the beasts is the same; as one dies, so dies the other. They all have the same breath, and man has no advantage over the beasts, for all is vanity. All go to one place. All are from the dust, and to dust all return.

Ecclesiastes 9:5

For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing

Over and over again the Bible says that the dead know nothing. These are only a few examples. The dead don’t think. They don’t praise the Lord. They have no consciousness. They return to the earth, as dust. Their plans perish and they cease to exist. Ecclesiastes 3 even tells us that man has no advantage over the beasts. All go to one place, which is dust.

 

[St. SteVen]

According to scripture the "soul" is a living, breathing creature...human and animal.

This reminds me of a question that came to mind yesterday when I was out for a bicycle ride.
Noticing a lot of grasshoppers this time of year. One jumped across my path and triggered a few thoughts.

When I was young I used to kill bugs when ever I saw them. And "bug-killer" is typically
a male responsibility in a family. The wife screams to husband, "There's a spider in the bathroom!"
The husband knows the drill. Same with rodents, on land or air-borne. - LOL

At some point I realized that insects have fear and can feel pain. Bang on the kitchen
countertop and the ant runs for it's life. Or corner it and they fight back.
So, a thinking being capable of fight or flight syndrome. Very interesting.

I suppose you wonder if I will EVER get to the point. Here it is...

Do only beings with lungs have a soul?

 

[Hobie]

This reminds me of a question that came to mind yesterday when I was out for a bicycle ride.
Noticing a lot of grasshoppers this time of year. One jumped across my path and triggered a few thoughts.

When I was young I used to kill bugs when ever I saw them. And "bug-killer" is typically
a male responsibility in a family. The wife screams to husband, "There's a spider in the bathroom!"
The husband knows the drill. Same with rodents, on land or air-borne. - LOL

At some point I realized that insects have fear and can feel pain. Bang on the kitchen
countertop and the ant runs for it's life. Or corner it and they fight back.
So, a thinking being capable of fight or flight syndrome. Very interesting.

I suppose you wonder if I will EVER get to the point. Here it is...

Do only beings with lungs have a soul?

Without breath, are you living, of course not. So its not hard to see what is a soul, but some just want whatever they can to resist what we have from Gods Word. So what is a soul? You are a soul as scripture clearly lays out.

Genesis 2:7
And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Notice in the verse above that man became a living soul. He was not given a soul. He became a soul. In other words, we do not have souls, we are souls.

Strong’s concordance defines nephesh as “a soul, living being, life, self, person, desire, passion, appetite, emotion”. With this definition in mind, the last part of Genesis 2:7 can be paraphrased as, for example “man became alive” or “man became an individual”. It is in fact the very moment when man gained his self awareness and free will.

The same word occurs 754 times so we can’t look at all examples but let’s look at this one that clearly applies.

Genesis 1:20
And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life (Nephesh), and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.

Here the King James Bible translates it as “creature that hath life”. Remember, this is the same word that was translated as “soul” in Genesis 2:7. The more examples you look at the more obvious it becomes that when the word “soul” is used in scripture it refers simply to “a living creature”. So keep in mind the true meaning of the word Nephesh, which can be translated as soul, living creature, person or individual, when you read verses such as…

Ezekiel 18:20
The soul who sins shall die.

 

[BlessedPeace]

According to scripture the "soul" is a living, breathing creature...human and animal. A "soul" (nephesh in Hebrew) was never a disembodied spirit. The Jews, like the Christians after them, succumbed to the lure of Platonic Greek notions of an immortal soul. It is not, and never was a Bible teaching. The Bible teaches resurrection which is through Christ at His second coming. Scripture tells us what happens when we die, it says it plainly.

Genesis 3:19

By the sweat of your face you shall eat bread, till you return to the ground, for out of it you were taken; for you are dust, and to dust you shall return.”

Job 7:21

Why then do you not pardon my transgression and take away my iniquity? For now I will lie down in the dust; And You will seek me, but I will not be."

Job 14:10,12

But man dies and lies prostrate man expires, and where is he? "As water evaporates from the sea, and a river becomes parched and dried up, so man lies down and does not rise. Until the heavens are no longer, he will not awake nor be aroused out of his sleep.

Psalm 115:17

The dead praise not the Lord, neither any that go down into silence.

Psalm 146:4

When his breath departs, he returns to the earth; on that very day his plans perish.

Ecclesiastes 3:19-20

For what happens to the children of man and what happens to the beasts is the same; as one dies, so dies the other. They all have the same breath, and man has no advantage over the beasts, for all is vanity. All go to one place. All are from the dust, and to dust all return.

Ecclesiastes 9:5

For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing

Over and over again the Bible says that the dead know nothing. These are only a few examples. The dead don’t think. They don’t praise the Lord. They have no consciousness. They return to the earth, as dust. Their plans perish and they cease to exist. Ecclesiastes 3 even tells us that man has no advantage over the beasts. All go to one place, which is dust.

You have my deepest sympathy. Live your mortal life well

 

[St. SteVen]

You have my deepest sympathy. Live your mortal life well

Very interesting response. Wow. Thanks.

 

[Harold]

This morning Sept 4 2023 my mother tells me of a dream that she had a month ago that accurately predicted the reveal of twins from our cousin’s family.



She then tells me that if I do not stop spreading my Bible verses, that I can lose my job and that I will be blacklisted. She shows me the happy times I can have with them, the family. Yet, I continue.



There Really Are So Many More Twins Now



This site tells us there have at least been over 1,009,337 twins that have existed.



There’s an infernalist teaching that says that God tortures people in Hell forever and erases the person’s existence from the minds of those in Heaven. What? So they don’t feel bad?



But what if this was a person’s twin who was being tormented endlessly? Why would God erase that memory? Is it not God’s plan, who is born?



Genesis 38:27 - The Birth of Perez and Zerah

Genesis 38:27 NRSV When the time of her delivery came, there were twins in her womb.



Why eternally separate twins תְאוֹמִ֖ים (ṯə·’ō·w·mîm) Strong's 8380: family members from each other?



Many with compassion, empathy and emotion would not separate family members forever. Yet, are we not all in the same family tree as Adam, the Original Sinner? Does God, our Father, pick favorites to the extent of casting brothers or sisters into unending flames, just because one decided to randomly believe in Christ to be permanently saved before the other?



My friends, my… family members from an Adamic perspective, truly I say to you, if God does not save even a single person in our family tree, than He has utterly failed. How can any family be happy when even one among them is lost forever? Therefore, all people must be universally reconciled with God.

 

[L.A.M.B.]

Romans 10:9- KJV
That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and SHALT BELIEVE in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

John 14:6 KJV: Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: NO MAN cometh unto the Father, but by me.

2 Corinthians 5:18/19
And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation; to wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

1 John 1:9 KJV. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

1 John 2:
1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: 2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

John 3:16 KJV. For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Only by believing in Christ can we have ACCESS to the Father. Those who reject Jesus will be rejected for ALL ETERNITY by the Father bc of THEIR CHOICE to deny him !
Forever being detained, eternally SPERATED FROM GOD, they choose the destiny of eternal damnation over eternal life !

 

[L.A.M.B.]

Today, Sept. 4, 2023.
Harold, if as you write here, the truth that you claim is your life, regarding the dysfunction and abuse in your home....there IS help. I don't feel we are getting the WHOLE picture here.
If you are of legal age you may leave your parents home and your sister can apply for emancipation from said parents.
CP Services are required to INVESTIGATE every complaint, plus there are multiple recourses, the police, can be called for the domestic verbal abuse, the tantrums of your mom; who, if true needs some serious mental evaluations, with possible institutionalization!
I can see the stem of your confusion with God, the inability to understand his word and the ease you are coerced into false doctrine.
Prayers will be raised to God in the correction of your home life, for all members

 

[Igorwxi]

Где модератор ??
Это важно.
С уважением.