Anyone who repents God gives mercy and grace, its that simple..
Matthew 9:13
But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.
Eternal Torment Or Annihilation? What Happens To The Wicked
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Matthew 9:13
But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.
CadyandZoe
Well-Known Member
We have being given freewill, no one is a robot or created to repent or sin, it is a choice as we see with Lucifer. He chose to commit sin, God did not created him to sin.
Now, as for predestination, if God knows every choice that every created being is going to make through the whole of eternity then does that make Him in allowing Lucifers fall, responsible for the fall of man and sin? Of course not.
If God knows all of our life choices before you birth, then in reality, does He choose to create us choose sin or to choose life, or good or evil, or is that still our choice? Its our choice.
But, on the other hand, if God really created us with a free will, there are questions you must address..
Wouldn't you be the author of my own thought?
Wouldn't I be in charge of my own destiny?
Wouldn't that make God, one who loves and who allows free will?
Could God, wanting to share love so much, have created beings much like himself, in His own image with much free will? Think about it.
Love can only exist in the context of freedom. By its nature, love has to be chosen, and to truly choose you have to have free will.
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Dan Clarkston
Well-Known Member
Jesus said the wicked burn in hell and their torment never ceases so they will be conscience and awake for all eternity according to Jesus
It's sad when people claim Jesus Christ is a liar!.... Those that teach Jesus is a liar don't spend eternity with the Lord.... no, they go south when they croak!
Jesus says those that go to hell will burn in fire that shall NOT be quenched into everlasting punishment
Mark 9:43-44
And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
Matthew 25:46
And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
2 Thessalonians 1:9
Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
Texts like Jude 6, Matthew 8:12, Matthew 22:13, and Matthew 25:30, and 2 Thessalonians 1:9 show that darkness signifies a state of deprivation and distress, not of destruction in the sense of ceasing to exist. Only those who exist can weep and gnash their teeth, as those banished into the darkness are said to do. Luke 16:22–24 shows that fire signifies continued existence in pain as Revelation 14:10 with 19:20 and 20:10, and Matthew 13:42, 50, confirm this.
Another good case against annihilationism is ”And the smoke of their torment rises forever and ever” in Rev. 14:11.
These scripture references will help those that want to know the truth... while those embracing the false doctrines of annihilationism are actually reprobate and cannot be helped.
Real Christians take Jesus at His Word so there are no true Christians that follow the false doctrines of annihilationism
CadyandZoe
Well-Known Member
We have freedom of the will, but we don't have autonomous freedom. God is creating our free choices.
Yes, God creates everything according to his plan. He creates the fall of Lucifer and Adam and every other choice humans make.
God knows our life choices because he creates our life choices.
Love is only meaningful when living with other people in a shared narrative.
They are destroyed as Sodom was with the eternal fire.
Luke 17:29
But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
2 Peter 2:6
And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly;
Jude 1:7
Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.
Matthew 10:28
And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
So Adam and Eve where robots, unable to choose between right and wrong? Of course not, only the father of lies gives out that deception that man cannot choose between what leads to life versus what leads to death.
CadyandZoe
Well-Known Member
Everyone even Lucifer had freewill to choose, and no one was made to sin by God. He can test us as we see, but not what we cant resist..
Matthew 6:13
And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.
1 Corinthians 10:13
There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.
CadyandZoe
Well-Known Member
There is a perspective held by some individuals that posits God as the ultimate creator of the universe, akin to a clockmaker. According to this view, God meticulously crafted the universe thousands of years ago, intricately designing everything within it, and then, like a clockmaker winding up a clock, set everything into motion and stepped back, allowing it to run its course.
In this framework, humanity possesses a form of autonomous free will. We are seen as independent beings capable of making our own choices, with the power to shape our destinies. However, this perspective raises significant theological implications, particularly concerning the nature of evil. If God is viewed as having created the universe in this manner, it follows that God is not intervening in the world after its creation. Consequently, while God may have the capacity to offer forgiveness for our wrongdoings and the authority to judge our actions, the inability to intervene means that He does not prevent evil from manifesting in the world. This creates a complex dynamic in understanding the relationship between divine oversight and human freedom, particularly when it comes to the existence and impact of evil.
Consider the idea that God is actively crafting the universe one moment at a time, guided by an intricate and intentional plan. In this view, even though we possess free will, our choices are not completely independent from the ongoing creative work of God. Each decision we make, while seemingly our own, is intricately woven into the fabric of existence that God is continuously shaping. Every act of free will is a product of this divine influence, suggesting that our choices and actions unfold within a larger framework of purpose and design orchestrated by the Creator. Thus, our autonomy exists within the context of God's overarching plan, creating a relationship between divine intention and human agency.
Who walked the Garden in the cool of the morning, or talked to Adam and Eve, or called on Noah to build the Ark to say nothing on the Flood. Or challenged Satan to see the witness of Job and came by Abraham and promised to spare Sodom for even ten good people, and not finding even that sent angels to get Lot out before the city was burned with the eternal fire of Gods wrath. It wasn't a absent watchmaker to say the least..
shepherdsword
Active Member
My take on the issue is this: I hope those that hold to annihilation are correct, it's just that I don't see it in the scriptures. This passage is hard to get around:
Rv 14:10-11
The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
Rv 14:10-11
The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
Does God have the power to raise the dead and resurrect, of course He does. But the Wicked will be separated from God with no chance to be brought back, they will be no more as it says, they will perish forever and cease to exist for eternity.
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