Eternal Security

[Ferris Bueller]

What can we say about the one who does not appear with Christ in glory? One thing conclusively. They were not raised with Him.

Much love!

That's what I'm saying, lol.
The person who is not raised with him either never really believed, or quit believing.
Appearing with him is conditioned on being risen with him in salvation. Being risen with him is conditioned on present, ongoing believing.

 

[marks]

It doesn't matter if it is, or if it is not because that doesn't change the fact that you have to continue to believe to the very end to be saved when Jesus comes back. Even Calvinism, where the original OSAS teaching comes from, says this! It says the true believer will always believe and can not stop. And so you must continue to believe to the very end or you aren't really saved. And that is the stance you are taking, whether you know it or not.

You must continue to believe to be risen in him. You cease to be risen with him, or you were never risen with him to begin with (take your pick, doesn't matter) if you stop believing, and, therefore, you will not appear with him when he returns. Colossians 3:1-4 either never applied to you, or ceased to apply to you. Only believing people are risen in him. The promise is for believing people.

In order to continue to make your round and round argument, you have to deny the plain reading of this passage.

If you've been raised with Him . . . you shall appear with Him in glory. It's as if you add,

If you've been raised with Him . . . you shall appear with Him in glory, IF you actually do.

But the simple statement doesn't allow for that.

Much love!

 

[Ferris Bueller]

I've added nothing this is the passage.

Colossians 3:1-4 KJV
1) If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.
2) Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.
3) For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
4) When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.

It's not me, it's the Bible.

Much love!

If you don't believe, then you're not risen with him, or you stopped being risen with him. Either way, you're not risen with him. So you won't appear with him.
Appearing with him is conditional on your continued believing. Because only believers are risen with him.

 

[marks]

It's not made untrue by other passages. It is only applicable, and remains applicable to people according to other passages of scripture that you are ignoring. Like this one:

Stay with the condition given in the passage. That's the one upon which the prophecy is dependant, not something else. If you try to insert something else in there that's exactly what you are doing.

If you've been raised with Christ [now] . . . you shall appear with Him in glory [then].

Much love!

 

[Ferris Bueller]

If you've been raised with Him . . . you shall appear with Him in glory, IF you actually do.

No, it's 'if you continue to believe'. Because no unbelieving person is raised with him. And no person who is not raised with him will appear with him.

 

[amigo de christo]

It does exist, but just not the way Once Saved Always Saved says it exists.

Yes indeed . Cling to Christ loving everything He did teach . Endure faithful unto the end . The LORD
is all we need my friend . Let us Heed the Spirit . Be feasting daily on the bible and growing and learning .

 

[Ferris Bueller]

If you've been raised with Christ

You have to be a believer to be raised with him. You are not risen with him if you never really believed or if you stopped believing. Only believing people, risen with him, will appear with him. If you stop believing you are no longer a risen person in Christ. If you are no longer a risen person in Christ, you won't appear with him.

 

[amigo de christo]

You have to be a believer to be raised with him. You are not risen with him if you never really believed or if you stopped believing. Only believing people, risen with him, will appear with him. If you stop believing you are no longer a risen person in Christ. If you are no longer a risen person in Christ, you won't appear with him.

There are quite a few IFS in that bible . They all knew one had to endure faithful unto the end .
They all knew this . They all knew JESUS was all they needed . How bout i leave us a reminder
from romans , IF you continue in His goodness , otherwise you shall be cut off .
Do you ever notice that JESUS even warned His own , to take heed that no man Decieve you . That ye must endure to the end .
Jesus told his own , But he who endures to the end the same shall be saved . THEMS JESUS WORDS . AND I BELEIVE THEM

 

[marks]

Unbelievers are not risen with him.

Exactly!

So shall we presume that unbelievers were risen with Him previously? Why would we do that? Especially in the face of passages such as these?

Much love!

 

[marks]

You must continue to believe to be risen in him. You cease to be risen with him,

You continue to be at odds with this passage.

Colossians 3:1-4 KJV
1) If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.
2) Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.
3) For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
4) When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Yes, all by itself, un-rightly divided from the rest of scripture Colossians 3:1-4 means there are no conditions attached for people who have been raised with Christ to appear with him when he returns. But as I've shown you, that interpretation makes several other verses of scripture not true anymore. The prophecy/promise of Colossians 3:1-4 is conditioned on whether you continue to believe. You can't un-rightly divide Colossians 3:1-4 away from the rest of scripture, like this passage:

"24As for you, let what you have heard from the beginning remain in you. If it does, you will also remain in the Son and in the Father. 25And this is the promise that He Himself made to us: eternal life." 1 John 2:24-25
​

As you can see, the promise of eternal life is conditioned on remaining in Son and the Father by letting the word remain in you. I don't care if you want to argue that the true believer will never stop believing. That still doesn't change the fact that you have to continue to believe to the very end to be saved when Jesus comes back.

Gotta go, but I want to come back to this, and look at the translation. Which are you quoting here?

Much love!

 

[marks]

Being risen with him is conditioned on present, ongoing believing.

Rising with Christ is something you continuously do? Is that the idea? Or are you describing a spiritual death, albeit obliquely?

Much love!

 

[amigo de christo]

Let all who draws breath both praise and thank the LORD continuously . OH yes , continuously .
So hands up and let the praises begin .

 

[marks]

You have to be a believer to be raised with him. You are not risen with him if you never really believed or if you stopped believing. Only believing people, risen with him, will appear with him. If you stop believing you are no longer a risen person in Christ. If you are no longer a risen person in Christ, you won't appear with him.

You absolutely refuse to either acknowledge the outright truthfulness of this passage, or declare it untrue.

All you seem to be able to do is intotroduce a qualification that both does not appear in the passage, and changes significantly the meaning of the passage.

And in light of what John wrote, 1 John 3, this profoundly influences our ability to live the lives that God calls us to, and that we as His children desire to.

This is no light thing. Casting doubt where God does not, and where God tells us that faith provides us with purity, let us take hold of that faith, and that purity, and live the lives we dream.

Much love!

 

[Waiting on him]

No, it's 'if you continue to believe'. Because no unbelieving person is raised with him. And no person who is not raised with him will appear with him.

So someone does have the power to remove me from Gods hand?

 

[Waiting on him]

@Ferris Bueller how long now have you attributed your salvation to your own power?

If you’ll take a deeper look, possibly you’ve yet to die, my opinion is that the scripture presented in the OP is suggesting that a man still focused on the earthly would be one focused on his own flesh and not that of Christ. If in fact your risen with him you’ve realized your powerless, cause where He is,flesh doesn’t enter.

 

[farouk]

So someone does have the power to remove me from Gods hand?

John 10.27-30:

"My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

30 I and my Father are one."

 

[Waiting on him]

John 10.27-30:

"My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand from His hand.

29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

30 I and my Father are one."

According to Ferris I have the power to pluck myself.

 

[farouk]

According to Ferris I have the power to pluck myself.

I'll go with John 10, by God's grace.

 

[Enoch111]

According to Ferris I have the power to pluck myself.

That's what happens when someone jumps of the Ferris Wheel. Or should we say the Ferris bandwagon?