Eternal Security

[Ferris Bueller]

@Ferris Bueller how long now have you attributed your salvation to your own power?

Power to what?

 

[Ferris Bueller]

If you’ll take a deeper look, possibly you’ve yet to die, my opinion is that the scripture presented in the OP is suggesting that a man still focused on the earthly would be one focused on his own flesh and not that of Christ. If in fact your risen with him you’ve realized your powerless, cause where He is,flesh doesn’t enter.

This is how I got saved (surely, you too):

"...he beat his breast and said, ‘God, have mercy on me, a sinner!’ I tell you, this man, rather than the Pharisee, went home justified. For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, but the one who humbles himself will be exalted.”" Luke 18:13-14
​

What power did I exert that somehow earned myself a declaration of righteousness?

 

[Ferris Bueller]

So someone does have the power to remove me from Gods hand?

No.

Unlike under the old covenant where an inept priest, a missed ceremony, or an imperfect sacrifice could.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

According to Ferris I have the power to pluck myself.

You can leave of your own accord.
What you can't be is forcibly seized against your will and robbed from God's hand.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

And in light of what John wrote, 1 John 3, this profoundly influences our ability to live the lives that God calls us to, and that we as His children desire to.

...Right after chapter 2 where he said to let the word of God remain in us, and if it did we would remain in the Son and the Father. 1 John 2:24-25

 

[Ferris Bueller]

I'm saying, according to the Bible, if you've been raised with Jesus, when He appears, you will in fact appear with Him in glory.

The Bible says IF you keep believing.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

This is no light thing. Casting doubt where God does not

I'm just saying what the Bible says...

"we are His house, if we hold firmly to our confidence and the hope of which we boast." Hebrews 3:6
​

Is the author of Hebrews casting doubt where God does not?

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Rising with Christ is something you continuously do?

Risen with Christ is what you continuously are...as long as you keep believing.

 

[farouk]

James Bond at the end of Quantum of Solace was told by the head of MI6: "Bond, I need you back".

Bond replied: "I never left".

If one ends up not believing and thus dying in sin and unbelief, one never believed in the first place.

As in the Parable of the Sower: the ground in which no root from the seed was truly found.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Gotta go, but I want to come back to this, and look at the translation. Which are you quoting here?

Berean Study Bible

"24As for you, let what you have heard from the beginning remain in you. If it does, you will also remain in the Son and in the Father. 25And this is the promise that He Himself made to us: eternal life." 1 John 2:24-25​

Here are all the other versions:
1 John 2:24 As for you, let what you have heard from the beginning remain in you. If it does, you will also remain in the Son and in the Father.

 

[farouk]

"Solomon Grundy was born on a Monday,
Married on a Tuesday,
Took ill on a Wednesday,
Worse on a Thursday,
Died on a Friday,
Buried on a Saturday,
And that was the end of Solomon Grundy."

(I don't see that Solomon Grudy was ever unsaved on a Wednesday if he was preeviously saved on a Tuesday, either. This would be to reject the believer's eternal security in Christ.)

 

[Ferris Bueller]

You continue to be at odds with this passage.

Colossians 3:1-4 KJV
1) If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.
2) Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.
3) For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
4) When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.

Much love!

I'm at odds with you saying 'risen with Christ' means that you will always be risen with Christ.
We know from other scripture that you will only always be risen with Christ if you keep believing.

"I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received, and in which you stand firm. 2By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain." 1 Corinthians 15:1-2​

 

[quietthinker]

Is there anyone who has been "raised with Christ", being "dead", who will NOT appear with Christ in glory?

Yes, I think so. Those who refuse the gift given them.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

"Solomon Grundy was born on a Monday,
Married on a Tuesday,
Took ill on a Wednesday,
Worse on a Thursday,
Died on a Friday,
Buried on a Saturday,
And that was the end of Solomon Grundy."

(I don't see that Solomon Grudy was ever unsaved on a Wednesday if he was preeviously saved on a Tuesday, either...)

Solomon Grundy would only be unsaved on Wednesday if he stopped believing on Tuesday.

(...This would be to reject the believer's eternal security in Christ.)

Not if you understand that 'eternal security' is not that you can't lose salvation, but that the Ministry and Sacrifice by which you are saved is what is eternally secure. It's because the Ministry and Sacrifice of Jesus lasts forever that you remain forever saved, not because you supposedly can not stop believing in his Ministry and Sacrifice.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Stay with the condition given in the passage. That's the one upon which the prophecy is dependant

Continuing to believe is how you stay with the condition given in the passage of being risen in Christ.
You remain risen in Christ long as you continue to believe.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

I'll go with John 10, by God's grace.

Yes, and we should continue in the grace of God:

"...many of the Jews and devout converts to Judaism followed Paul and Barnabas, who spoke to them and urged them to continue in the grace of God." Acts 13:43​

 

[quietthinker]

Here we go!

Does this promise really apply to all who claim to be Christians? Are there not warnings in Scripture about being found in us a hardened heart of unbelief?

Most importantly, if I show Scripture that refutes Eternal Security, than will you consider that it is simply a popular man-made doctrine without the support of the entire Word of God?

Romans 5 is clear that humanity is in Jesus. That is the gift.....all humanity was resurrected in Jesus.....quiet a gift wouldn't you say? ....it is almost unbelievable, so to speak, that God would be so generous. That is good news for all people....just as the angels said to the shepherds on Bethlehem's hills.

We can however decline the gift; that is in our power. But why would you?......because people won't believe that God is so generous.
.....and how is the gift declined? Apart from a blatant 'no thanks' there is the process of deception.....which is a process....the process which persuades people they are not good enough....the process that has them believing their own inner voices of inadequacy which results in the judgement of others......the process of insisting on a skewed understanding of God so they want nothing to do with him.....a God who tortures people for eternity because they didn't jump through 'his' hoops.

 

[MatthewG]

Maybe you remember the Parable of the Rich Man and Lazurus? (Luke 16:19-31)
It is impossible after death to cross the great chasm between the damned and the righteous:

"a great chasm has been fixed between us and you, so that even those who wish cannot cross from here to you, nor can anyone cross from there to us." Luke 16:26​

Once you are there, you're there for keeps (until the damned go into the lake of fire at the very end). All evangelism must be done in this life.
That may sound harsh and unmerciful to a person in the place of torment in the afterlife who regrets not accepting Christ, but if Moses is enough to convince someone to turn to God in this life (see vs. 31), how much more so the unveiled gospel in our time.

That is true, before Jesus died, was buried and resurrected. He crossed the great chasm? God through Jesus caused the separation to be fixed. Going to choke you with scripture, but anyone who may come across these things might find them intriguing.

“For when we were still without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly. For scarcely for a righteous man will one die; yet perhaps for a good man someone would even dare to die. But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him. For if when we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life. And not only that, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received the reconciliation.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭5:6-11‬ ‭NKJV‬‬


““O Death, where is your sting? O Hades, where is your victory?” The sting of death is sin, and the strength of sin is the law.

But thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

Therefore, my beloved brethren, be steadfast, immovable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, knowing that your labor is not in vain in the Lord.”
‭‭I Corinthians‬ ‭15:55-58‬ ‭NKJV‬‬


“Now all things are of God, who has reconciled us to Himself through Jesus Christ, and has given us the ministry of reconciliation, that is, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not imputing their trespasses to them, and has committed to us the word of reconciliation. Now then, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were pleading through us: we implore you on Christ’s behalf, be reconciled to God. For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.”
‭‭II Corinthians‬ ‭5:18-21‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

“For “He has put all things under His feet.” But when He says “all things are put under Him,” it is evident that He who put all things under Him is excepted. Now when all things are made subject to Him, then the Son Himself will also be subject to Him who put all things under Him, that God may be all in all.”
‭‭I Corinthians‬ ‭15:27-28‬ ‭NKJV‬‬



“But, beloved, do not forget this one thing, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.”
‭‭II Peter‬ ‭3:8-9‬ ‭NKJV‬‬


“For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.”
‭‭I Timothy‬ ‭2:3-4‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

To me these even means today, and after death., maybe it doesn’t to you though.

Notice how this scripture says for it is written which is what the Lord says this!!!


“For it is written: “As I live, says the (((((Lord))))), Every knee shall bow to Me, And every tongue shall confess to God.” So then each of us shall give account of himself to God. Therefore let us not judge one another anymore, but rather resolve this, not to put a stumbling block or a cause to fall in our brother’s way.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭14:11-13‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

Either this a true saying or it’s a lie, you be the judge and May the spirit guide and God give the increase.

You have it written also a second time again,


“Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus,

who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, but made

Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men. And being found in appearance as a man,

He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross.


Therefore God also has highly exalted Him and given Him the name which is above every name,


that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth, and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.”
‭‭Philippians‬ ‭2:5-11‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

You gotta move on from the Gospel sometimes and see what happened afterwards, @Ferris Bueller scripture even tells us that.


“Therefore, leaving the discussion of the elementary principles of Christ, let us go on to perfection, not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God, of the doctrine of baptisms, of laying on of hands, of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. And this we will do if God permits.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭6:1-3‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

 

[bbyrd009]

That's a condition

i dont know what that means, sorry

Assuming it's not too late to return to Him

well, i dont see “if it’s not too late” in there anywhere, but the point was that no other “return” can even be Quoted, ferris

 

[Ferris Bueller]

i dont know what that means, sorry

"Return to me"
That's a condition.