Elect or Not Elect: Why ALL Should Be Alarmed

[FaithWillDo]

Ive had to cut your post down, as it’s a 1,000 words.

Yes, my post is scriptural.....we must be Born Again to see the Kingdom Of God...we must become spirit children to have any fellowship with Gods Witness His Living Holy Spirit...

We communicate with Gods Spirit via our spirit...not by understanding the penned word from our own “ human” / “ carnal” understanding....it can and does take years for the Spirit to communicate the written word to our spirit.

We were children of the world once.....then when we become Born Again we are the spirit children of God...

Our teacher/ helper the Holy Spirit indwells our spirit , we have that new heart and spirit within...our spirit is in Christ, that’s when we start down that narrow path, we were chosen for Gods purpose and plan....everything we say and do is all about God, as we have His Living Witness the Living Holy Spirit....witnessing Gods truth to our heart/ spirit....the Spirit testifies with our spirit that we are Gods children....the Spirit of God is Alive and Active in our hearts/ spirit....who do you think is making us into the image of Jesus and producing fruit in us...the penned word or the Living Witness the Holy Spirit.

The Living Witness that we are Born Again of, leads us through the penned word which backs up what he witnesses to our heart/ spirit...reading the penned word does not make one’s spirit Born Again...that can only come by divine revelation...as in....we must be “ Born Again “ we are Born Of God’s seed....that seed is His Living seed that is Alive in us...we have been brought from death into life....our spirit has been brought from death to life, our spirit has been brought into the Kingdom Of God.

So you see...our testimonies are very different on how we believe we became Born Of The Spirit.

Therefore your testimony and my testimony is no more valid than any other members......you cannot prove that what you post is the truth of Gods word no more than I can....we post what “ WE” believe we are led to post by Gods witness His Living Holy Spirit.....we post what we believe is Gods truth......therefore we can post reams and reams of scripture reams and reams of testimonies....yet, we will only take on board what we understand the Spirit Of God to be witnessing to our spirit.

Dear Ritajanice,
I agree with much of what you stated above. The issue between us is WHEN a person is "born again". Scripture says that there is a pathway that leads a person to their new birth and conversion. All the parables that begin with the phrase "the Kingdom of Heaven is like" are teaching about certain aspects of that pathway (here a little and there a little) that all the Elect will experience. The pathway begins when Christ freely gives the Elect person the Early Rain of the Spirit. The Early Rain is a small amount of the Spirit and does not come with power. In that condition, the new believer remains unconverted (not born again).

So when does the new birth take place? Consider what Paul says below:

1Thes 5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the Day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. 3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

For the Elect, the Day of the Lord (judgment) comes to them shortly after they have received the Latter Rain of the Spirit. This event occurs when an Elect believer is in an apostate condition. When Christ comes, He comes to them as a "thief in the night". Night is a symbol for a believer's spiritual blindness and the symbol "thief" represents that Christ has come to them to take something from them. That "something" is described in Mat 24:40-41. This is His judgment. At that time, Christ will remove the spirit of anti-Christ and the Great Harlot (the believer's wicked heart/carnal nature) from within the person and cast them both into the Lake of Fire for destruction. The phrase "peace and safety" represents that the believer thinks that their salvation is safe and secure in the apostate church. They believe this because of Satan's powerful deceptions. Paul then mentions "as travail upon a woman with child" because after this judgment is complete, the woman (the free woman) will give birth to the new child of God.

Gal 4:30 Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman (spirit of anti-Christ) and her son (child of the devil/mankind): for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son (child of God) of the freewoman (Holy Spirit).

This is the moment when a person is born again and converted from a child of the devil into a child of God. Conversion requires both the Early and Latter Rains followed by judgment.

Do you know why it is necessary for Christ to give us a new birth? It is because of what these two verses below teach:

Eze 18:4 Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.

John 3:18 He (the converted believer/child of God) that believeth on him is not condemned: but he (all mankind/child of the devil) that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

After a person commits their first sin, they are sentenced to death for it. Nothing can change it. Since all judgment has been given to Christ, He is the only one who is legally authorized by God the Father to carry out that sentence of death - and He will do so at a time of His choosing. But since Christ loves mankind and came to save mankind, He will give all mankind a new birth PRIOR to carrying out that sentence of death. This is why conversion is absolutely necessary to be saved. Christ gives us a new birth as a child of God (who believes in Christ) and then by His judgment, Christ spiritually destroys the child of the devil (who we were) from within us. As I have said, this process is called conversion. The death of a person is required during this process and that is what these verses below are referencing:

Mat 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Spirit (creates the new child of God), and with Fire (destroys the child of the devil): 12 Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.

The baptism of the Holy Spirit is the Latter Rain of the Spirit and is what Paul received after being in Damascus for three days (blind and unable to eat). The baptism of Fire is the judgment of Christ which destroys the child of the devil.

Mat 26:52 Then said Jesus unto him, put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword.

The symbol "sword" represents God's Word who is Christ. After Christ gives the Early Rain of the Spirit to a person, they take up the Sword. When Christ "comes again" to convert the believer, the "sword" will slay them (the child of the devil).

Isa 66:16 For by fire (judgment) and by his sword (God's Word) will the LORD plead with all flesh (all mankind): and the slain of the LORD shall be many (because all mankind will be converted).

I hope from the scriptures above you can understand how and why a person must be born again and be converted before it can be said that they are saved.

I'll read your next post now and respond if the Lord leads me to do so.

Joe

 

[Ritajanice]

Dear Ritajanice,
I agree with much of what you stated above. The issue between us is WHEN a person is "born again". Scripture says that there is a pathway that leads a person to their new birth and conversion. All the parables that begin with the phrase "the Kingdom of Heaven is like" are teaching about certain aspects of that pathway (here a little and there a little) that all the Elect will experience. The pathway begins when Christ freely gives the Elect person the Early Rain of the Spirit. The Early Rain is a small amount of the Spirit and does not come with power. In that condition, the new believer remains unconverted (not born again).

So when does the new birth take place? Consider what Paul says below:

1Thes 5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the Day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. 3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

For the Elect, the Day of the Lord (judgment) comes to them shortly after they have received the Latter Rain of the Spirit. This event occurs when an Elect believer is in an apostate condition. When Christ comes, He comes to them as a "thief in the night". Night is a symbol for a believer's spiritual blindness and the symbol "thief" represents that Christ has come to them to take something from them. That "something" is described in Mat 24:40-41. This is His judgment. At that time, Christ will remove the spirit of anti-Christ and the Great Harlot (the believer's wicked heart/carnal nature) from within the person and cast them both into the Lake of Fire for destruction. The phrase "peace and safety" represents that the believer thinks that their salvation is safe and secure in the apostate church. They believe this because of Satan's powerful deceptions. Paul then mentions "as travail upon a woman with child" because after this judgment is complete, the woman (the free woman) will give birth to the new child of God.

Gal 4:30 Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman (spirit of anti-Christ) and her son (child of the devil/mankind): for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son (child of God) of the freewoman (Holy Spirit).

This is the moment when a person is born again and converted from a child of the devil into a child of God. Conversion requires both the Early and Latter Rains followed by judgment.

Do you know why it is necessary for Christ to give us a new birth? It is because of what these two verses below teach:

Eze 18:4 Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.

John 3:18 He (the converted believer/child of God) that believeth on him is not condemned: but he (all mankind/child of the devil) that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

After a person commits their first sin, they are sentenced to death for it. Nothing can change it. Since all judgment has been given to Christ, He is the only one who is legally authorized by God the Father to carry out that sentence of death - and He will do so at a time of His choosing. But since Christ loves mankind and came to save mankind, He will give all mankind a new birth PRIOR to carrying out that sentence of death. This is why conversion is absolutely necessary to be saved. Christ gives us a new birth as a child of God (who believes in Christ) and then by His judgment, Christ spiritually destroys the child of the devil (who we were) from within us. As I have said, this process is called conversion. The death of a person is required during this process and that is what these verses below are referencing:

Mat 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Spirit (creates the new child of God), and with Fire (destroys the child of the devil): 12 Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.

The baptism of the Holy Spirit is the Latter Rain of the Spirit and is what Paul received after being in Damascus for three days (blind and unable to eat). The baptism of Fire is the judgment of Christ which destroys the child of the devil.

Mat 26:52 Then said Jesus unto him, put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword.

The symbol "sword" represents God's Word who is Christ. After Christ gives the Early Rain of the Spirit to a person, they take up the Sword. When Christ "comes again" to convert the believer, the "sword" will slay them (the child of the devil).

Isa 66:16 For by fire (judgment) and by his sword (God's Word) will the LORD plead with all flesh (all mankind): and the slain of the LORD shall be many (because all mankind will be converted).

I hope from the scriptures above you can understand how and why a person must by born again and be converted before it can be said that they are saved.

I'll read your next post now and respond if the Lord leads me to do so.

Joe

I’ll leave you to what you believe my friend...no problem...only the Spirit can guide me through the penned word, but I thank you for your time..

 

[FaithWillDo]

Appear to us a second time?

All new believers will fall away?

Once we are Born Again by the Spirit Of God...thats it, we are His children to use as however is pleasing to Him.

A Born Again is “ in Love” with the Spirit Of God....Gods Spirit is “ LOVE” ...the most powerful Love there ever can be....may you know the Love Of Christ in your heart....it’s beyond our comprehension how much God Loves us.

A Born Again can NEVER be un- birthed from the Spirit of God.

We have been Born Again of imperishable seed not perishable seed “ imperishable seed “ that liveth and abideth forever....that is delivered by Gods Witness His Living Holy Spirit to our spirit, only he can witness Gods truth to our hearts / spirit...then what he witnesses to our heart/ spirit, it’s backed up by his penned word....if what we believe the Spirit witnesses to our heart/ spirit isn’t in the penned word...then it didn’t come from God’s witness His Living Holy Spirit.....everything we believe is being witnessed to our spirit by the Spirit of God must always be checked by his penned word.

I became Born Again by divine revelation not by reading the penned word...the penned word backs up Gods Living Witness His Living Holy Spirit....who testifies/ witnesses/ speaks Gods truth to our spirit.

We need to be Born Again by the Spirit Of God to understand the word of God.as the Bible was written under the influence of the Spirit of God...it’s a Spirit book full of Spiritual truth...only Gods Living witness His Living Holy Spirit can lead you through that Spirit book as it can only be understood in one’s spirit....therefore we must be a spirit child of God , as without we would just be leading ourselves through scripture and bringing it to our own human/ carnal understanding....which is void of any spiritual truth...just mumbo jumbo.

Everyone here on the forum is on their own journey with God....they are not in apostasy as you claim we are, because we don’t understand your own teachings and preachings.....

You are welcome to believe whatever you believe as I’ve already said, doesn’t make it Gods truth ..no more than what I post can be proved it’s Gods truth.
we’re on this platform by God...witnessing what “ WE” believe to be God’s truth...sowing seeds...bearing witness for our wonderful Lord and Saviour/ Glorifying His Name under the power/ influence of Gods witness His Living Holy Spirit....

My opinion/ testimony and belief...

Dear Ritajanice,
You said:
Appear to us a second time?

Heb 9:28 So Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him.

Christ appears to a person the first time "in the flesh" because the believer's understanding remains carnal and not spiritual. At this time, all the believer can "see" is Christ and Him crucified". This is the Early Rain of the Spirit. When Christ returns, He will appear spiritually to the believer and this is when He brings salvation to them.

John says this about apostate believers:

1John 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

John is not talking about believers who deny Christ's crucifixion and death. At the time John made this statement, there were still plenty of eye witnesses to when Christ went to the cross. Not only that, but how can a person who says that they are a believer deny the cross and resurrection? If they did, they would not be a believer in the first place. John is talking about believers who deny that Christ ever came to them "in the flesh".

When Christ comes to a person and gives them the Early Rain of the Spirit, Christ appears to them "in the flesh" (carnally). They can see Christ's physical work that He did under the Old Covenant but not much else. As John says, a believer who has the spirit of anti-Christ will deny that Christ ever appeared to them in the flesh. They believe that Christ only appeared to them in spiritually and believe that they have received the Latter Rain of the Spirit without ever having received the Early Rain of the Spirit.

You said:
All new believers will fall away?
Once we are Born Again by the Spirit Of God...thats it, we are His children to use as however is pleasing to Him.

Yes, after we are "born again" and converted (Early and Latter Rain followed by judgment), we can never fall away again. But after we receive only the Early Rain of the Spirit, everyone will fall away without exception. Here is one of the places where Christ teaches this truth:

Mat 12:43 When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none. 44 Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished. 45 Then goeth he, and taketh with himself SEVEN other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation.

The spiritual symbol of an unclean spirit represents a spirit which teaches Satan's false truth through lies and deceptions.

Since a new believer remains spiritually blind (Mark 8:21-25) after receiving the Early Rain of the Spirit, they cannot replace their worldly false beliefs with the truth of Christ. ONE unclean spirit leaves but comes back with SEVEN more. The number "seven" represents perfection. In this case, the number seven represents the perfection of Satan's lies/deceptions which come to a new believer by the indwelling of the spirit of anti-Christ. Now, instead of ONE unclean spirit within the believer, they now have EIGHT. The number eight is a spiritual symbol which represents a new spiritual condition. In this case, the new spiritual condition is worse than the first.

This "worse than the first" spiritual condition causes the believer to become a False Prophet, a Man of Sin, a Minister of Satan and a Seven Headed Beast with Ten Horns & Crowns.

Joe

 

[FaithWillDo]

My statement is supported by scripture.

You have not proved that my statement isn’t supported by scripture..

You have just posted what you believe and have railroaded over my statement...without any explanation...just a commentary of your own belief system....which is no more valid than mine, vice versa...


Romans 8

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King James Version​

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8 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.
19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.
20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,
21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.
24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?
25 But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.
26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.
27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.
28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?
32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?
33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.
34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.
38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Dear Ritajanice,
Paul is talking about a person after they are converted - not after they have only received the Early Rain of the Spirit.
Joe

 

[Ritajanice]

Christ appears to a person the first time "in the flesh" because the believer's understanding remains carnal and not spiritual. At this time, all the believer can "see" is Christ and Him crucified". This is the Early Rain of the Spirit. When Christ returns, He will appear spiritually to the believer and this is when He brings salvation to them.

Christ didn’t appear to me when I became Born Again, that was by divine revelation...just as Gods word says..the Spirit testifies with our spirit that we are Gods children/ Born Again.

Hence we are spirit children.

I will leave you to what you believe, honestly it makes no sense to me all this rain business..will agree to disagree.

 

[Ritajanice]

Dear Ritajanice,
Paul is talking about a person after they are converted - not after they have only received the Early Rain of the Spirit.
Joe

We become Born Again by Gods Witness His Living Holy Spirit..

Early rain makes no sense whatsoever to my spirit..it doesn’t even enter my vocabulary....I have no understanding of the early rain or latter rain whatsoever......I don’t need to understand it either, I’m exactly where God wants me to be....therefore we are at different levels of spiritual understanding...no problem.....interesting discussion, thank you Joe.

 

[FaithWillDo]

I’ll leave you to what you believe my friend...no problem...only the Spirit can guide me through the penned word, but I thank you for your time..

Dear Ritajanice,
I want to leave you with three scriptures to consider:

Jer 33:3 ‘Call to Me, and I will answer you, and show you great and mighty things, which you do not know.’

1Sam 12:17 Is it not wheat harvest to day? I WILL CALL UNTO THE LORD, and he shall send thunder and RAIN; that ye may perceive and see that your wickedness is great, which ye have done in the sight of the LORD, in asking you a king.

Luke 11:9 And I say unto you, Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you. 10 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened. 11 If a son (Elect) shall ask bread of any of you that is a father, will he give him a stone? or if he ask a fish, will he for a fish give him a serpent? 12 Or if he shall ask an egg, will he offer him a scorpion? 13 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit (the Latter Rain/baptism) to them that ask him?

Joe

 

[Ritajanice]

Dear Ritajanice,
I want to leave you with three scriptures to consider:

Jer 33:3 ‘Call to Me, and I will answer you, and show you great and mighty things, which you do not know.’

1Sam 12:17 Is it not wheat harvest to day? I WILL CALL UNTO THE LORD, and he shall send thunder and RAIN; that ye may perceive and see that your wickedness is great, which ye have done in the sight of the LORD, in asking you a king.

Luke 11:9 And I say unto you, Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you. 10 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened. 11 If a son (Elect) shall ask bread of any of you that is a father, will he give him a stone? or if he ask a fish, will he for a fish give him a serpent? 12 Or if he shall ask an egg, will he offer him a scorpion? 13 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit (the Latter Rain/baptism) to them that ask him?

Joe

Thank you Joe...

 

[GodsGrace]

Not would my self or Dan think he said that. So why would you act as if we would?

yes Gods people will do good deeds. Not to keep themselves saved (a selfish reason I may add) but out of appreciation for being saved, and given power ByGod to do good works. Because they actually trust God

He said they did good deeds. he did not say do good deeds..

Huh?

Did Jesus teach that we are to do good deeds or not?
Did Paul teach that we are to do good deeds or not?
Did Peter teach that we are to do good deeds or not?
Did James teach this? Did John?

Then WHY are you afraid to state this?
Why must we state that we WANT to obey....
This is true, but the further truth is that we MUST OBEY
IF we are to remain saved.

IF we do not obey God....we will not be saved.

Jesus and Paul both taught that good deeds will save us and that is how we get to heaven.

Romans 2:6 God will render to every man ACCORDING TO HIS DEEDS.
John 5:28 JESUS said that those that did GOOD DEEDS will come forth to a life of resurrection.

What is difficult to understand about this?

Where are the verses stating that we only do good deeds if we want to?

Do we, as Christians, only get to do what we WANT to do?

Back to the fruit argument

Jesus gave the example of the fruit...
not me.

I just post what is in the NT.

 

[GodsGrace]

Not would my self or Dan think he said that. So why would you act as if we would?

yes Gods people will do good deeds. Not to keep themselves saved (a selfish reason I may add) but out of appreciation for being saved, and given power ByGod to do good works. Because they actually trust God

He said they did good deeds. he did not say do good deeds..

Huh?

EG,
Are you referring to
John 5:28-29?
28“Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear His voice,
29and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment.

Are you serious?

OF COURSE Jesus is referring to the past!
The persons are DEAD....
they will be judged according to the good deeds they did while alive.

This means we MUST do good deeds WHILE WE'RE ALIVE.

Those who did good deeds WHILE THEY WERE ALIVE, will come out of the tomb to a resurrection of life.

They are called after DEATH....
but did the good deeds while ALIVE...

 

[GodsGrace]

The word of God says...only a Born Again will see the Kingdom Of God.

Do you have to be born again to enter the kingdom of God?
Jesus answered, "I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit. Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit. You should not be surprised at my saying, `You must be born again.

Sure.
So?
You haven't explained what it means to be born again....

We are born in the flesh.
OK

What does it mean to be born in the Spirit?
HOW are we born in the spirit?

 

[Ritajanice]

Sure.
So?
You haven't explained what it means to be born again....

We are born in the flesh.
OK

What does it mean to be born in the Spirit?
HOW are we born in the spirit?

I have explained many times what Born Again means to “ ME”... if we are Born Again of imperishable seed..where in us is that testified?

We are Born Again by Gods Witness His Living Holy Spirit..

My spirit is Born Again.

Romans 8:16-18​

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King James Version​

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16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.
..

The Spirit testifies / speaks with our spirit as he’s indwelling our spirit,that we are Gods children/ Born Again that comes only by divine revelation..which the written word says.

Now your turn..how were you Born Again?

Is the word of God Alive and Active in your spirit?

He should be, if he’s making you into the image of Jesus, the Bible can’t do that, it can only back up what is witnessed to our spirit, by God Living Witness His Living Holy Spirit.

How else would we know we are Born Again if not by divine revelation..Spirit gives birth to spirit...is by divine revelation...backed up by the penned word of God.

Do you know that when you became Born Again, that you received a new heart and spirit within?

Ezekiel 36:26​

“A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.”

Our spirit is Alive in the Spirit of Christ, we’re a new creation....we aren’t our own we belong to the family of God..spirit children...all of us...

Ephesians 2:5In-Context 4 But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, 5 made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved

1 Corinthians 6:15-20​

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King James Version​

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15 Know ye not that your bodies are the members of Christ? shall I then take the members of Christ, and make them the members of an harlot? God forbid.
16 What? know ye not that he which is joined to an harlot is one body? for two, saith he, shall be one flesh.
17 But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.
18 Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body.
19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?
20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Huh?

Did Jesus teach that we are to do good deeds or not?
Did Paul teach that we are to do good deeds or not?
Did Peter teach that we are to do good deeds or not?
Did James teach this? Did John?

To keep ourselves saved? No. And I will not say this, Because no matter how Good I think I am I still fall short. Why can;t you admit this?

Then WHY are you afraid to state this?

I will never say I must do good works to be saved. That would be me trying to save myself. I reject that theology.

Now. i will say, Because I am saved, i will do Good works. Why?

because I am confident that he who began a good work in me WILL COMPLETE THAT WORK.

My faith is in God. Not myself. EverytI’ve in my life I have trusted self I have crashed and burned, why would you want me to look at self and not God?

Why must we state that we WANT to obey....
This is true, but the further truth is that we MUST OBEY
IF we are to remain saved.

This is legalism. You’re putting people back under law. And the sad part is, No one can be good enough to be saved.

Why you can not see this, I am at a loss.

IF we do not obey God....we will not be saved.

We can not obey enough to be saved, thats why we need grace.

You can not obey enough to be saved, so by defenition and using basic math, I can not not obey enough to lose salvation.

I can only pray you learn basic math one day.

Jesus and Paul both taught that good deeds will save us and that is how we get to heaven.

No they did not. If they did, Even paul said, he should be accursed. Because he attacked those who say they must obey to be saved or remain saved.

Romans 2:6 God will render to every man ACCORDING TO HIS DEEDS.
John 5:28 JESUS said that those that did GOOD DEEDS will come forth to a life of resurrection.

What is difficult to understand about this?

I agree

Gods people WILL do Good deeds

Those who are not Gods people will NEVER do good deeds, because even the good deeds they do do are in sin

I think you need to learn what sin is, I have a sneaky suspicion you are not quite up to speed on what true sin is.

Where are the verses stating that we only do good deeds if we want to
Do we, as Christians, only get to do what we WANT to do?

Does your father not allow you to do what you want to?

If you disobeyed your parents, did you not suffer the consequences?

Did they kick you out of their family? Then why would you claim god, who is a much greater parent that your earthly parents could ever be would kick you out of his?

Jesus gave the example of the fruit...
not me.

Yes, Not to be saved, to gain reward.

Thats what he said, your trying to make salvation, Which is by Grace, an earned reward. Meaning it is not by grace at all, but by works..

I just post what is in the NT.

It does not good to post something if you do not understand it. Anyone can found verses that support their belief system, it does not make it true..

how do I know?

the calvinists do it. Does it make them right? No

the arminians do it, does it make them right? No

The catholic do it does it make them right? No

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Huh?

EG,
Are you referring to
John 5:28-29?
28“Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear His voice,
29and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment.

No, If you read my remark, You would see what I was responding to.

You used John 17, then asked if Jesus spent three years telling them how to be born again, but then told them they never have to do anything again.

I said, WE WOULD NEVER TELL THEM THAT.

Not sure why you do not understand that

Are you serious?

OF COURSE Jesus is referring to the past!
The persons are DEAD....
they will be judged according to the good deeds they did while alive.

Yes they will

Those who are delievered to him for judgment will be judged by the books, and found wanting, because all the works they did could not save them, why? They rejected Christs grace offer of salvation.

Those raised by him will be at the bema seat, they will be judged. Not for their eternal destiny, That was paid for by the cross. They will be judged and rewarded for all the fruit they grew as believers, and what fruit they did not do as believers (gold silver precious stone, wood hay and straw)

You can not be good enough to get to heaven, why can you not understand this basic fact? Do you really think you can be good enough to earn salvation?

This means we MUST do good deeds WHILE WE'RE ALIVE.

Gods people will
Gods enemies will not

its not rocket science

Those who did good deeds WHILE THEY WERE ALIVE, will come out of the tomb to a resurrection of life.

They will come out of the tomb ressurected by God because they believed, Not because they did good deeds, they did good deeds because they were saved

They are called after DEATH....
but did the good deeds while ALIVE...

There is a difference, although the body is dead because of sin, the spirit is alive because of righteousness, Not our righteousness, our righteousness are as filthy rags,, Your righteousness will not get uyou one second out of hell.

 

[GodsGrace]

In no way. But I can understand why some think that..


Okay, GodsGrace, in answer to this, I'm going to ask you what your take is here in consideration of the following, with particular references in each verse to the underlined portion:

• John quotes Jesus as saying, "And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that I should lose nothing of all that He has given Me, but raise it up on the last day" (John 6:39).

Jesus is discussing the Bread of Life.....Himself.
Verse 35 Everyone who aligns with Jesus hungers no more.
EVERYONE.
Who ALIGNS with Jesus.

No word about God choosing anyone or CAUSING this alignment.
You could explain your understanding of this plain statement better - if you can.

Every person the Father gives to Jesus goes happily to be with Jesus.
WHO DOES THE FATHER GIVE TO JESUS?
Those that come to believe in Jesus.
John 3:16
Acts 16:31
John 5:24 WHOEVER hears the voice of God and believes in Jesus has eternal life.

Catch that?
It takes both God and Jesus.
God calls everyone and WHOEVER HEARS and believes in Jesus will have eternal life.

Whoever goes to Jesus, HE will HOLD ON TO.
Jesus will not let anyone go.
Acts 11:21 The HAND OF THE LORD was with them, and a great number who BELEIVED turned to the Lord.

• John quotes Jesus again as saying, "My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand" (John 10:27-29).

Sure. No one can snatch you out of God's hand.
BUT
You can walk away.

Because we have FREE WILL PS.
Something YOU do not believe in and so confusion is caused.

• John again quotes Jesus as saying, "You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit and that your fruit should abide..". (John 15:16)

Are you serious?
Jesus said this to the Apostles.
He chose THEM to be Apostles.

Try reading it again without your calvin colored glasses on.

• Paul says to the Philippians, "He (God) Who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Christ" (Philippians 1:6), and "...work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, for it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure" (Philippians 2:13)

We already discussesd this.
Seems like a conflict.

But Calvinists are used to conflicts.
They create plenty of them.

• And Peter, in 1 Peter 1:3-5, says, "(God) has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, to an inheritance that is imperishable, undefiled, and unfading, kept in heaven for you, who by God’s power are being guarded through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time."

Yes sir.
We're being guarded.
Very true.

But how?
Read it again....
THROUGH FAITH

The same FAITH that saved us when we first believed.
Romans 13:11

• Paul again, in Jude 24, says, "Now to (God) Who is able to keep you from stumbling and to present you blameless before the presence of his glory with great joy..."

Sure.
And look at Jude a few verses before the one you posted.
Did you read this one?

Jude 1:20-23
20But you, beloved, building yourselves up on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Spirit,
21keep yourselves in the love of God, waiting anxiously for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ to eternal life.
22And have mercy on some, who are doubting;
23save others, snatching them out of the fire; and on some have mercy with fear, hating even the garment polluted by the flesh.

Verse 20: We are to BUILD OURSELVES UP in our faith.

Verse 21: We are to KEEP OURSELVES in the love of God.

So yes, God can keep us from stumbling, IF we, of our own FREE WILL, allow Him to.

• And finally, John says, "Everyone who goes on ahead and does not abide in the teaching of Christ, does not have God. Whoever abides in the teaching has both the Father and the Son" (2 John 9).

This is so simple, I won't even reply.
Do persons who do NOT abide in Christ, have Christ?

Easy.

• Jesus says, in Matthew 19:26, Mark 10:27, and Luke 18:27, "With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible", "With man it is impossible, but not with God. For all things are possible with God", and "What is impossible with man is possible with God", respectively.

Take it all in, GodsGrace. Any one is sufficient, but take it all in.


Well, right. But He is our Helper. ;) You did quote John 14:26... :) And without His help... :)


That's another ~ very related, but another ~ subject. We can address that separately if you like.


Ah, yes, for, GodsGrace ~ for, or because ~ it is God who works in us, both to will and to work for His good pleasure. We very much do the willing and working, GodsGrace, but because God is at work in us. If He were not ~ if we didn't have the Spirit in us ~ we would not.


LOL! Well, I agree, but it is God, in causing us to be born again, in removing the heart of stone from our flesh and giving us a heart of flesh. in putting His Spirit within us, causes us to walk in His statutes and be careful to obey His rules (Ezekiel 36:26-27).

And His "vehicle" for doing so is the Holy Spirit, Who, again, in Paul's words, works in us so that we then will and work for His good pleasure, and in Peter's words, by God's power guards through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.


Yes, and thanks be to God, He gives us the strength to do it, His Holy Spirit Who, by His power sustains us to the end.


Interesting question, but you're thinking of it wrong... backwards, really. Since He demands it, even in our weakness, He gives us the strength to do it, and gives Himself to us, in the person of His Holy Spirit to enable us to do it and ensure that we will do it. Because, as Jesus said, with man... man, in and of himself... this is impossible, but with God, all things are possible.


You are not the only one to hold that opinion. :) However, it's really due to people misunderstanding God's Word... and being fixated on free will, which no on denies. It's just that our free will is either left as it is because we are left to ourselves, or it comes to be in accordance with God's will, and either way, it's a function of the heart. The heart is what drives the will. Always.


Nope. Again, the verse is, GodsGrace, God is "able to keep (us) from stumbling and to present (us) blameless before the presence of His glory with great joy..." And you might remember what Paul says of the fruit of the Spirit in Galatians 5:22-23... "the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control."


Absolutely. But yet again, "work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, for it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure," and "God is able to keep us from stumbling and to present us blameless before the presence of His glory with great joy."


He doesn't, but we do so because of His work in us. No offense, GodsGrace, but goodness gracious you're a stubborn fellow. :)


Shouldn't be... :)

1 of 3 (Maybe less than 3...) :)

There you have your verses explained to you.
The rest is babble and I will not address babble.

AND
Perhaps SOMEDAY YOU can reply to MY verses in the same manner that I reply to yours?

No. Easier to play verse ping pong.

Which I will no longer be doing with you BTW.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Sure.
So?
You haven't explained what it means to be born again....

We are born in the flesh.
OK

What does it mean to be born in the Spirit?
HOW are we born in the spirit?

Jesus said this in John 3.

9 Nicodemus answered and said to Him, “How can these things be?”

It’s ok to be confused. Nicodemus was also confused when jesus told him he must be born again, So he asked how this can be, how do we get born again.

Jesus gave him (and us) the answer

10 Jesus answered and said to him, “Are you the teacher of Israel, and do not know these things? 11 Most assuredly, I say to you, We speak what We know and testify what We have seen, and you do not receive Our witness. 12 If I have told you earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things? 13 No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man [b]who is in heaven.14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, 15 that whoever believes in Him should [c]not perish but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.

18 “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Jesus points him to the OT, and a historical event which would be used as a teaching tool for us today.

1. The children of Israel were getting but by Snakes,, They were dead once they were bitten, there was no known cure, much like us, we are dead, no way for us to save ourselves. We must be saved by God

2. Moses was told by God to lift a serpent on a pole. Whoever looks will be saved, whoever does not, will continue to die, and eventually meet the fate they already had been sentenced to.

3. Only those who trusted God looked, those who did not, did not look, they may have believed God could save them? I do nto know. But they trusted more in themselves, and in denial kept on tryign to save themselves and failed.

Jesus used this to show nicodemus, who (an avid teacher of all of the OT) understood this story perfectly. So he would understand what Jesus said.

In the same way, jesus must be lifted up on a pole. That whoever believed in him will also not perish, but will live forever. Like the people of Israel. Whoever believed look, and were instantly saved, whoever did not. Were not saved, and eventually suffered their fate (Jesus called this fate condemnation)

Jesus said clearly, he was not sent to judge the world. But that the worl might be saved. Whoever believes (looks) is not only born again (saved from death) but they will live forever (eternal life) these people are no longer condemned, they are saved forever.

Whoever does not believe continue in that condemned state until they either repent and look, or suffer the physical death before they repent, in that case they will remain condemned, Be delivered to God for judgement, and suffer the second death. Many of these people will try to get out of it by trying to tell jesus of all their good works they did (I cast out devils, I did this and that and all these great works)

jesus will say depart from me, why? He never knew them, why? They practices lawlessnes (sin) why? They did not believe, and remained condemned in that state

Sadly @Ritajanice does not understand this passage, so if you ask her, you will not get an answer which lines up with what jesus said, she will give you the calvinist answer.

run away from that answer.

 

[GodsGrace]

How do you learn by him?
how do you even know that Jesus existed?

Why are you listed as a Christian if you're not sure Jesus existed?

How did you learn from your teachers at school?

 

[GodsGrace]

We are given faith a gift from God, when we become Born Again....how can you have faith in God without knowing him first in our spirit?

He doesn’t even recognise us without being Born Of The Spirit.

Did you read the scripture I posted?

Sure. I read you scripture and replied to it.

Did YOU read mine?
Am I getting a reply from you?

Post some verses that state HOW we become saved....
Thanks.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Why are you listed as a Christian if you're not sure Jesus existed?

How did you learn from your teachers at school?

She has some special knowledge I guess.. lol

 

[Ritajanice]

Why are you listed as a Christian if you're not sure Jesus existed?

How did you learn from your teachers at school?

I asked you that question..I know Jesus existed.

How would you know he existed?

Are you going to explain to us how you became Born Again?