Don't fall into the trap, of thinking your faith is solely your doing - it is your doing in part, but praise God daily

[bdavidc]

I think, to be fair, Salvation is a relationship - it is neither solely God's work, nor solely yours: hopefully it is more God's!

I agree with the "hopefully it is more God's!" as that is what the Bible teaches.

Scripture teaches clearly that salvation is entirely the work of God from beginning to end. While human response is necessary, repentance and faith, it is God who initiates, enables, and completes the work of salvation. Jesus said, “No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him” (John 6:44), and again, “No one can come to Me unless it is granted him by the Father” (John 6:65). This shows that without God’s call and enabling grace, no one would or could come to Him.


Salvation is indeed a relationship, but it is one that begins with God’s initiative. Ephesians 2:1-5 explains that we were “dead in trespasses and sins” but that “God, being rich in mercy… made us alive together with Christ, by grace you have been saved.” The dead cannot revive themselves; it is God who gives life. Even the faith by which we are saved is described as a gift: “For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God” (Ephesians 2:8).


While we are called to respond in faith and obedience, the Bible never presents salvation as a shared effort between God and man in equal or partial measure. Rather, it is God who calls, draws, grants repentance (2 Timothy 2:25), and brings to completion the good work He begins (Philippians 1:6). Therefore, the glory for salvation belongs to God alone and that is a wonderful thing.

 

[Gottservant]

Or you can thank God for doing it all:

“And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins, in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience, among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others. But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,” (Eph 2:1-8 NKJV)

Paul didn't tell the Christians at Ephesus, "You've done something!" No, he says "God has made you alive, God has made you sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, God has saved you by His grace."

You are making the mistake of the Gnostics, to punish the flesh as "evil".

The head is important, but it is not the whole of the body.

Let me explain, I had a contention with my earthly father, that God could not possibly know me, better than I know myself. It got to the point that I started to doubt myself, because my father was so insistent that "God knew best"; but here's the thing: in my spirit, within me, I felt God say "No, you are right: you know you best - I am not trying to know you, better than you know yourself".

So there you have it, God cares about our state, but does not try to restate, the nature of our care.

 

[David Lamb]

You are making the mistake of the Gnostics, to punish the flesh as "evil".

The head is important, but it is not the whole of the body.

Let me explain, I had a contention with my earthly father, that God could not possibly know me, better than I know myself. It got to the point that I started to doubt myself, because my father was so insistent that "God knew best"; but here's the thing: in my spirit, within me, I felt God say "No, you are right: you know you best - I am not trying to know you, better than you know yourself".

So there you have it, God cares about our state, but does not try to restate, the nature of our care.

Where did I make the mistake of the Gnostics? My post had very few of my own words. I just said: "Or you can thank God for doing it all:" and "Paul didn't tell the Christians at Ephesus, "You've done something!" No, he says "God has made you alive, God has made you sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, God has saved you by His grace." I don't see anything there that is "Gnostic.£" The rest of my post consisted of a direct quote from the bible.

 

[Ritajanice]

It is only by mercy, and by grace, that God chooses to forgive. In this section, Paul will repeat the claim that human effort has no impact on salvation whatsoever. No Christian can brag about their ''goodness,'' since we are saved entirely by the grace of God, not by our own good deeds.

All Glory goes to God!...as there wasn’t a Bible in sight...when God chose to birth my spirit into His..which came by = supernatural divine heart revelation...Spirit gives birth to spirit ...my testimony and belief.

Ephesians 2:1-8​

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King James Version​

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2 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)
6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

 

[bdavidc]

Let me explain, I had a contention with my earthly father, that God could not possibly know me, better than I know myself. It got to the point that I started to doubt myself, because my father was so insistent that "God knew best"; but here's the thing: in my spirit, within me, I felt God say "No, you are right: you know you best - I am not trying to know you, better than you know yourself".

It is important to test every spiritual impression or inner voice by the unchanging truth of God's Word, because God never speaks anything that contradicts Scripture. While personal experiences can be meaningful, they must be weighed against what God has revealed in the Bible. Scripture is clear that God knows us better than we know ourselves. Psalm 139 tells us that God has searched us and known us, that He understands our thoughts from afar, and that He is acquainted with all our ways. The heart is deceitful above all things and desperately wicked, as Jeremiah 17:9 teaches, so we cannot trust our own self-knowledge above God's. God's knowledge is perfect, and His understanding is infinite. Our salvation is entirely His work from beginning to end. It is not based on our insight, our efforts, or our sense of self, but on His mercy, His calling, and His purpose in Christ. He does not simply care about our state, He transforms us through His Word and Spirit, calling us to trust in Him rather than in ourselves. Any voice or feeling that contradicts what God has already said in Scripture cannot be from Him, because God is not the author of confusion but of truth.

 

[Gottservant]

Yes, but the whole point is that He wants our faith to surprise Him.

You are talking about robots and mind control.

 

[bdavidc]

Yes, but the whole point is that He wants our faith to surprise Him.

You are talking about robots and mind control.

God is never surprised by anything. He is all-knowing, omniscient, which means He knows the end from the beginning (Isaiah 46:9–10). Nothing catches Him off guard, including our faith. Hebrews 4:13 says, “Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do.” So while faith pleases God (Hebrews 11:6), it doesn’t surprise Him, because He knows those who are His (2 Timothy 2:19) and sees their faith even before it’s expressed outwardly.

As for the idea that God controls us like robots or overrides free will, that’s not biblical either. God gave mankind the ability to choose, going all the way back to Adam and Eve in the garden (Genesis 2:16–17). But God is still sovereign. He can work through human choices to accomplish His purposes without violating anyone’s will. Proverbs 16:9 says, “A man's heart deviseth his way: but the Lord directeth his steps.” God draws people, convicts hearts, opens eyes, but He doesn’t force people to love Him. Love that is forced isn’t love at all.

 

[Gottservant]

God is never surprised by anything.

God is never moved by surprise, that doesn't mean He doesn't enjoy it.

That's like saying "Jesus doesn't have a relationship to the Holy Spirit, because He is one with the Holy Spirit".

The flesh does not remove the function of the spirit, if it is open to God.

 

[bdavidc]

God is never moved by surprise, that doesn't mean He doesn't enjoy it.

That's like saying "Jesus doesn't have a relationship to the Holy Spirit, because He is one with the Holy Spirit".

The flesh does not remove the function of the spirit, if it is open to God.

God is all-knowing (Isaiah 46:9–10), declaring the end from the beginning, and nothing catches Him off guard. He is not like man, subject to new information or unexpected outcomes. As for the comment that God “enjoys” surprise, Scripture never describes God experiencing surprise or being caught unaware for pleasure or otherwise. That’s a human trait, not a divine one. God’s knowledge is perfect, complete, and eternal. Regarding the comparison to Jesus and the Holy Spirit, while the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are one in essence, they are distinct in person and function. Jesus did not cease to relate to the Spirit simply because of His unity with Him. And yes, the flesh doesn’t block the work of the Spirit, as long as a person is truly surrendered to God. But none of this changes the truth: God is omniscient. He is never surprised, never uncertain, and never reactive. That is part of what makes Him God and worthy of trust.

 

[Gottservant]

God is all-knowing (Isaiah 46:9–10), declaring the end from the beginning, and nothing catches Him off guard. He is not like man, subject to new information or unexpected outcomes. As for the comment that God “enjoys” surprise, Scripture never describes God experiencing surprise or being caught unaware for pleasure or otherwise. That’s a human trait, not a divine one. God’s knowledge is perfect, complete, and eternal. Regarding the comparison to Jesus and the Holy Spirit, while the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are one in essence, they are distinct in person and function. Jesus did not cease to relate to the Spirit simply because of His unity with Him. And yes, the flesh doesn’t block the work of the Spirit, as long as a person is truly surrendered to God. But none of this changes the truth: God is omniscient. He is never surprised, never uncertain, and never reactive. That is part of what makes Him God and worthy of trust.

God knowing what will surprise Him, does not stop Him being surprised.

What's the point of having a son, if the son never surprises you?

You are killing the relationship Jesus died, to establish.

Are you saying Jesus going to the cross, didn't surprise you?