Dogmatic Christianity

[ScottA]

My understanding, based on 1 Corinthians 15 (and others) is that Jesus must rule until all are under his feet. Jesus is waiting on the lost sheep to be found. Once all are saved, Jesus gives ALL who ever lived to God. If that isn't true, then neither is 1 Timothy 4:10 along with many other verses.

That position assumes that there are none who perish...which cannot be truthfully stated, as the scriptures say there are. Consider therefore, that yes, all come "under His feet" and are turned over to the Father...but as Danial writes, "Some to everlasting life, Some to shame and everlasting contempt."

But I don't want to leave it at that. That leaves so much to misunderstand or even to unnecessarily think less favorably about God. I tell you the truth (even dogmatically)-- both life in the world and in heaven, whether forever or only for the short time of years in the flesh, they are both a gift from God. But why eternal life and salvation for some and not for others? God has explained. But the reality of what this world actually is should also be considered before feelings are hurt. This life is a mere sketch of what awaits those who love or come to love God-- a mere "image"...just as it is written. An image given a life of its own--not at all comparable to life everlasting, but a gift even so. But consider also, that some who "bend the knee" do not do so out of reverence, and if you could see their eyes some look up from bended knee and glare. Such is evil, and evil shall not enter the kingdom of God.

 

[Patrick1966]

but as Danial writes, "Some to everlasting life, Some to shame and everlasting contempt."

Verse please.

 

[Patrick1966]

That position assumes that there are none who perish...which cannot be truthfully stated, as the scriptures say there are.

Some perish, but not forever. If it's forever then the verses I mentioned above are false.

 

[ScottA]

Verse please.

:) I don't have the numbers in my head, only the words.

I looked it up. Here's a freeby:

Daniel 12:2​

And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, Some to everlasting life, Some to shame and everlasting contempt.​

 

[ScottA]

Some perish, but not forever. If it's forever then the verses I mentioned above are false.

No, and such a position is not stated in the scriptures.

As for the other verses, they are not false, but often misunderstood. The problem is such verses must be reconciled to all of what is written...and your "but not forever" position does not reconcile all.

 

[Patrick1966]

:) I don't have the numbers in my head, only the words.

I looked it up. Here's a freeby:

Daniel 12:2​

And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, Some to everlasting life, Some to shame and everlasting contempt.​

Thanks. Here is another translation of the same verse.

Daniel 12:2

Young's Literal Translation

​

2 `And the multitude of those sleeping in the dust of the ground do awake, some to life age-during, and some to reproaches -- to abhorrence age-during.

 

[Patrick1966]

No, and such a position is not stated in the scriptures.

As for the other verses, they are not false, but often misunderstood. The problem is such verses must be reconciled to all of what is written...and your "but not forever" position does not reconcile all.

Please look up Lamentations 3:31.

 

[ScottA]

Thanks. Here is another translation of the same verse.

Daniel 12:2​

​

Young's Literal Translation​

​

​

2 `And the multitude of those sleeping in the dust of the ground do awake, some to life age-during, and some to reproaches -- to abhorrence age-during.

Thank you. But translation variable is no different than a difference in understanding. Such things are of men, not all of whom are to be trusted. Only God is correct.

So, unless you are willing to stake all your believes and understanding on the idea that God and forever is not forever, then it would be wise to refer rather to a translation that does not make less of God than He is.

 

[ScottA]

Please look up Lamentations 3:31.

For the Lord will not cast off forever.​

"Cast off" in that context simply refers to the fact that the end is indeed coming as promised. That is, it refers to God having driven mankind from the garden. Genesis 3:24

 

[Patrick1966]

For the Lord will not cast off forever.​

"Cast off" in that context simply refers to the fact that the end is indeed coming as promised. That is, it refers to God having driven mankind from the garden. Genesis 3:24

It's a general statement. God does not cast one off forever. That's what it says. If punishment is "eternal" then this is another verse that isn't true.

One must reject a plethora of scripture to believe in forever punishment.

 

[ScottA]

It's a general statement. God does not cast one off forever. That's what it says. If punishment is "eternal" then this is another verse that isn't true.

One must reject a plethora of scripture to believe in forever punishment.

Your misunderstanding is not the measure of what is true.

As for a plethora of scripture, you have no room to comment, for you yourself apparently rejected the very idea of God's judgment and chosing as a potter chooses what to fire and what to discard.

Best learn to reconcile all that is written.

 

[Patrick1966]

Your misunderstanding is not the measure of what is true.

As for a plethora of scripture, you have no room to comment, for you yourself apparently rejected the very idea of God's judgment and chosing as a potter chooses what to fire and what to discard.

Best learn to reconcile all that is written.

Ok brother. May God bless us all!

 

[Windmill Charge]

will transgress righteousness by judging others too harshly..

Something you are good at.

 

[Episkopos]

Something you are good at.

What I find many are good at is resisting the truth by changing the meaning of the words in the bible when it suits them.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

What I find many are good at is resisting the truth by changing the meaning of the words in the bible when it suits them.

Your an expert at this!

 

[Episkopos]

Your an expert at this!

I am someone who takes the words of God very seriously.....looking beyond the modern twist...looking for the Lord's instruction...looking for the mind of Christ. When that investigation doesn't line up with what is religiously acceptable...I marvel at how God hides away the truth from the self-seeking...to reveal it to the diligent.

Naturally this method is NOT appreciated by those who seek to retain their way of thinking and understanding at the superficial level.
:)

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I am someone who takes the words of God very seriously.....looking beyond the modern twist...looking for the Lord's instruction...looking for the mind of Christ. When that investigation doesn't line up with what is religiously acceptable...I marvel at how God hides away the truth from the self-seeking...to reveal it to the diligent.

Naturally this method is NOT appreciated by those who seek to retain their way of thinking and understanding at the superficial level.
:)

You are decieved.

if you took the bible seriously you would not only live it, you would confess it. and you would look to God to save you because your an unrighteous soul worthy of hell

 

[Episkopos]

You are decieved.

if you took the bible seriously you would not only live it, you would confess it. and you would look to God to save you because your an unrighteous soul worthy of hell

As a person sees so is he... Your statement sounds more like a confession than an accusation.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

As a person sees so is he... Your statement sounds more like a confession than an accusation.

so if you see yourself as righteous you must be?

Is that why you think you are righteous and do not need the cross to save you?

 

[Episkopos]

Hey would somebody please ban me from this demonically infested fucking forum? Too many fucked up evil fucking people here! Get me the fuck out of this fucking place! And fuck every one of you in the fucking process!

SEE YOU ALL OF YOU FUCKS LATER! Let the fucking demons stay and let the others get the fuck out.

I see you have a way with (a) word.