Does man naturally have ability to Seek God ?

[Scott Downey]

People actually do not seek God, with a natural desire or ability.
People do seek God when he makes them born of God, but in their natural state they are following the devil, the prince of the power of the air, and also following after any of his false christs.

It is also about how do you define 'seek'. To seek God in the scriptures is to seek Him in faith, with an expectation of an answer or reward, not something casual or carnal like God give me this or that and I will do something for you type idea.

You can see the connection here of faith, belief, seeking, diligence, reward
Hebrews 11:6
But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

 

[brightfame52]

Does man naturally have ability to Seek God ?
OP ^

Natural? No. Man is the created body of dust.
Ability? Yes. Man was given a soul, with Gods Breath of Life.

Error, read the thread as to why. Thanks !

 

[brightfame52]

scott d says

People actually do not seek God, with a natural desire or ability.
People do seek God when he makes them born of God, but in their natural state they are following the devil, the prince of the power of the air, and also following after any of his false christs.

Absolutely correct.

It is also about how do you define 'seek'. To seek God in the scriptures is to seek Him in faith, with an expectation of an answer or reward, not something casual or carnal like God give me this or that and I will do something for you type idea.

You can see the connection here of faith, seeking, diligence, reward
Hebrews 11:6
But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

Yes and that word seek in Heb 11:6 is the same word for seek in Rom 3:11

11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

Which no man by nature does the scripture says.

 

[Taken]

Error, read the thread as to why. Thanks !

Disagree...man, bodily created, was neither alive or dead, could SEEK nothing.
Man bodily created AND THEN MADE alive with a soul with Gods Breath....was MADE with a supernatural impartation, and thereafter a unnatural ability to SEEK God.

 

[Abigail]

I was just asked about this elsewhere here. I think 1 Corinthians 1:18 is one answer to the question.

 

[farouk]

I was just asked about this elsewhere here. I think 1 Corinthians 1:18 is one answer to the question.

@Abigail This is a great verse, showing how human thinking and Divine power in the believer's life are completely different....

(The first 10 verse of Ephesians 2 also shows this contrast....)

 

[brightfame52]

Writer Moreno Dal Bello makes an excellent point:

By nature, that is, in his natural state, man is dead in sins, but God is alive. A saved man is not one who sought God, but one who was sought out by God and found. God searches for His sheep until He finds them (see Rom. 3:11 & Lk. 15:4,5 & Ezek. 34:11,12). Man is a sinner, God is the Saviour. Man is lost, God is the Seeker. Man is dead in sins, God is the one Who makes alive. By nature, man does not know he is lost and dead in sins, therefore, it is the Shepherd Who seeks out His sheep until He finds them. “…I was found of them that sought Me not; I was made manifest unto them that asked not after Me” (Rom. 10:20

9

 

[brightfame52]

Apart from the first cause of God the Father, men come to Christ of their own carnal faith, their own carnal will, based on their own carnal works, their own carnal intellect, seeking for some carnal gain . The Father is the first cause of all of those which ever come[Spiritually] to the Son for Salvation. Otherwise man is so completely helpless, being dead in sins, alienated from the life of God, and enemies, haters of God in their hearts and minds that they neither cannot nor will not come to Christ. So, outside of the act of God’s election none from among fallen mankind will come to Christ and be saved.

Jn 6:44

44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Rom 5:6

6 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.

Eph 2:5

Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved)

Eph 4:18

Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:

Rom 1:30

Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,

Jn 5:40

40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

Rom 3:11

11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

Col 1:21

21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled

 

[brightfame52]

Several reasons why men by nature dont seek after the True and Living God:

1st- because man has a enslaved will to sin, we are naturally servants of sin. Jesus told some men this Jn 8:34

Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.

This is man by nature Ecc 7:20

For there is not a just man upon earth, that doeth good, and sinneth not.

Therefore by nature we are slaves/servants to sin which keeps us from seeking the True and Living God.

2nd- By nature our affections are attached to darkness rather than Light and God is Light Jn 3:19

And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. This is because before regeneration we are darkness Eph 5:8

For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light:

Yet God is absolute light 1 Jn 1:5

This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.

3rd- Naturally We have a darkened Spiritual understanding Eph 4:18

Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:

By Nature we dont understand God nor the things of God Rom 3:11

There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

1 Cor 2:14

14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

The word know here ginóskó means understand for instance Lk 18:34

34 And they understood none of these things: and this saying was hid from them, neither knew they the things which were spoken.

So man naturally cannot understand God and the things of God ! 9

These are ony a few reasons why man does not seek the True God, there are many others !

 

[Raccoon1010]

No man naturally can believe on Christ nor even believe in the True God, for what saith the scripture Lk 10:21-22

21 In that hour Jesus rejoiced in spirit, and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes: even so, Father; for so it seemed good in thy sight.

22 All things are delivered to me of my Father: and no man knoweth who the Son is, but the Father; and who the Father is, but the Son, and he to whom the Son will reveal him.

Now to call upon the name of Jesus for Salvation as per Rom 10, the person must know who the Son is to believe Him Rom 10:14

14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

There can be no true calling upon Christ without Faith and the knowledge of who He is and what He accomplished and for whom. Yet Jesus reveals that naturally "no man knoweth who the Son is, but the Father"

So who Christ is in His True Glorious Person must be revealed to a man as it was to Peter here Matt 16:16-17

16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.

17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

See Peter was Blessed, he didnt know who Jesus Christ really was by natural man ability but by Divine revelation.

This is a strange concept. But I didn't seek God until I learned about him. And it took me years to desire to serve God. I think God pulls us in.

 

[Scott Downey]

This is a strange concept. But I didn't seek God until I learned about him. And it took me years to desire to serve God. I think God pulls us in.

The only reason you learn about Christ, coming to believe in Him is because of the work of God in your life.
No one else will believe.
44 No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day.
45 It is written in the prophets, ‘And they shall all be taught by God.’ Therefore everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to Me.

If you have heard and learned from God, then you are granted by God to come to Christ.
Not everyone hears and learns from God the Father.

But God does His perfect work in you and that is the only reason you believe in Christ whom He sent.
There is nothing strange about the concept.
Devil, and the world will certainly not lead you to Christ, only God can do the drawing. Everyone God draws comes to believe in Christ.

29 Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent.”

Of course, the unbelieving Jews hated what Christ was saying, and it was strange enough conceptually, that many of Christ's disciples stopped following Christ. But the ones who stayed with Christ, Christ says God enabled them to believe, otherwise people will leave.

63 It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life.
64 But there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who would betray Him.
65 And He said, “Therefore I have said to you that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted to him by My Father.”

The Spirit is He who gives the Life, the flesh *the carnal mind of a man, does not help, infact it hinders.

 

[Scott Downey]

KJ21
And He said, “Therefore said I unto you that no man can come unto Me, unless it were given unto him by My Father.”
ASV
And he said, For this cause have I said unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it be given unto him of the Father.
AMP
And He was saying, “This is the reason why I have told you that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted him [that is, unless he is enabled to do so] by the Father.”
AMPC
And He said, This is why I told you that no one can come to Me unless it is granted him [unless he is enabled to do so] by the Father.
BRG
And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.

 

[brightfame52]

Man naturally doesnt seek God because he cannot, simply because a person that is dead cannot do anything. Just like in physical death, a person in that condition cannot make any physical decisions, he or she will not because they cannot being dead. A physically dead person cannot and will not walk, or talk physically, and unfortunately cannot, and cannot desire to do those things, activities. So its the same with men naturally spiritually dead to God. Rom 3:11

11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

Jn 6:44, 65

44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.

The inability is because man is dead spiritually to God, though much alive in the physical sphere of things.15

 

[brightfame52]

Man by nature is dead to God, spiritually dead as a result of his fall/sin in Adam, the representative man for men naturally. Let me explain, physical death means to be dead to physical life, the spirit/soul of a person is separated from the physical body, and so spiritual death is the separation of the soul/spirit of men from God, which is being dead to God, alienated from God and the spiritual communion and fellowship with God Eph 4:18

Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:

This is a simple fact of the scripture Col 2:13

13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; 16

 

[brightfame52]

Lets continue the thought that man by nature is dead to God. When Adam sinned, with his posterity in his loins, they sinned with him and became dead Rom 5:15

But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.

Dead here though it may include physical death, primarily refers to spiritual death/dead !

Nothing a dead person can do until made alive unto God, not even seek God, the True God that is.

 

[Blue Dragonfly's]

Paul contradicts Jesus?

Romans 1:20 For what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood from His workmanship, so that men are without excuse. 21For although they knew God, they neither glorified Him as God nor gave thanks to Him, but they became futile in their thinking and darkened in their foolish hearts.…

 

[brightfame52]

Paul contradicts Jesus?

Post 235 do you want to discuss ?

 

[Blue Dragonfly's]

Post 235 do you want to discuss ?

Sure.

 

[brightfame52]

Sure.

Okay good, so what is Paul talking about that many be dead Rom 5:15

15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.

I already elaborated on it. Thanks

 

[brightfame52]

Rom 3:11

11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

Gods word states there are none who seek after Him. The word seeketh, as used in Romans 3, is the greek word ekzēteō and means ‘to search out’, ‘investigate’, ‘crave’, ‘require’, ‘demand’, ‘worship’. No man, by nature, does any of these things when it comes to the true God. No man by nature craves, requires, demands, worships or has any love, fear for the true God, therefore, no man by nature seeks God. This evidences that man by nature has no Spiritual Life. This is because man sinned in Adam and died. Man by nature thinks that he does seek after the True and only Living God, but he never really knows the True God, as the True God, but always only an idol. Prov 14:12

There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.