Does John 1:1 say Jesus is God

[Wrangler]

The Son of God IS God.

God is a spirit. John 4:24

God is Spirit, yes. But Jesus is a man. Why do you think Jesus called himself the Son of Man?

I can't make it any clearer.

Which goes to show how horribly weak your argument is. God is a spirit and Jesus is a man who died and was resurrected by God (Rom 10:9). Jesus is not God. At least, not the only true God.

 

[GEN2REV]

So, in your estimation, Adam was a deity?

Guess what? All of us have God as our conceptual Father. That's why we call him Father. Why else do you think we call Jesus' God, Father, our Father?

Wrong because you're ignoring The Fall.

That's a pretty big variable to completely leave out of your equation.

Whatever Adam WAS, he wasn't the same after Original Sin.

And that new, mortal, nature was passed on to all of us.

"You will surely die!"? That is mortality. That was not with Adam at the beginning.

No, God is NOT our Father in the sense that He was Jesus' Father. As I've stated ad nauseum, Jesus had no mortal father like we all do.

 

[Wrangler]

No, God is NOT our Father in the sense that He was Jesus' Father.

Do we not share in our Father' inheritance, along with our brother Jesus? Colossians 3:12. John 1:12. 1 Peter 4.


Now we live with great expectation, 4 and we have a priceless inheritance—an inheritance that is kept in heaven for you, pure and undefiled, beyond the reach of change and decay.
1 Peter 3:4

 

[RLT63]

B has nothing to do with your reasoning. The Son of God is a title (which is why it is capitalized), not a biological kinship.

Thank you for clarifying your position on that. I have to completely disagree with you. Jesus is definitely the Son of God.

 

[Wrangler]

Listen, I will accept that you have no soul. But as for me, and most others, we are at least a body and a soul.

Jesus was a physical body AND A SOUL.

His soul WAS GOD ALMIGHTY.

Me; What Scripture says that?

YOU:



For the record, I consider Soul = Body + Spirit. The body dies but the Spirit returns to God, who gave us life.

 

[GEN2REV]

Do we not share in our Father' inheritance, along with our brother Jesus? Colossians 3:12. John 1:12. 1 Peter 4.


Now we live with great expectation, 4 and we have a priceless inheritance—an inheritance that is kept in heaven for you, pure and undefiled, beyond the reach of change and decay.
1 Peter 3:4

ONLY if we have God's Spirit.

Which brings us back around to a very important point.

WHO is God's Spirit?

Romans 8:9-11 makes clear that Jesus Christ IS God's Spirit.

Which further proves that Christ IS GOD.

 

[GEN2REV]

Me; What Scripture says that?

YOU:

View attachment 27060

For the record, I consider Soul = Body + Spirit. The body dies but the Spirit returns to God, who gave us life.

I believe our spirit IS our soul. Yes, the Bible refers to individuals as souls, but in the larger discussion of all things Biblical, I consider the modern understanding of soul to be equivalent to spirit in that our spirit IS our life, and our spirit IS in our blood.

You're big on researching word meanings. Research exactly what is being said in the verses that speak of the LIFE being in the blood and you WILL find (if you're honest with yourself) that it is speaking of THE SPIRIT being in the blood. Why else would God mind if we ingest blood? If it just has simple life in it, that is true for all vegetables, animal flesh, etc.

But if it has SPIRIT in it, that is a problem for God because He wants our spirits pure.

Jesus had a spirit, just as we have a spirit.

In my mind, SOUL = SPIRIT.

I don't believe we have a spirit AND a soul. I believe the spirit is what goes on after we die IF we have God's quickening, His Life-giving Spirit.

 

[Wrangler]

ONLY if we have God's Spirit.

Yes, those who have God's spirir are the "we" Peter is talking about.

Which brings us back around to a very important point.

WHO is God's Spirit?

Like words, a spirit is a WHAT, not a WHO. It is an attribute of Being, not a separate being.

Romans 8:9-11 makes clear that Jesus Christ IS God's Spirit.

Which further proves that Christ IS GOD.

Anytime a trinitarian/mystical dualist says a verse is "clear" that supports their doctrine, that is the dead give away they are leading to a false conclusion.
Romans 8:11 The Spirit of God, who raised Jesus from the dead, lives in you. Whose spirit lives in us? God's spirit.

Here, you are again confused - and perhaps want to confuse - the point of agency. Jesus is God's servant. God accomplishes his will through his servants or agents. Luke records God's Spirit going to Jesus, who in turn has given God's spirit to us.

This is why Romans 8:10 pivots from Jesus to who actually raised Jesus from the dead, God - in his unitarian nature. And Romans 8:9 again talks about God's spirit. God shared his spirit with Jesus, and through this servant of God, we have God's spirit in us.

Pretty clear. Thanks for bringing this up.

 

[Wrangler]

I believe our spirit IS our soul. Yes, the Bible refers to individuals as souls, but in the larger discussion of all things Biblical, I consider the modern understanding of soul to be equivalent to spirit in that our spirit IS our life, and our spirit IS in our blood.

Hmmm. It seems we are on the same page regarding the likely different sense in which the word is used in Scripture. :)

I think, like you, many people use the terms interchangeably or synonymously. One thing that I'm not clear about is the significance of the expression the spirit returns to God.

I can't recall if I recently asked you or @RLT63 (maybe it was MatthewG? ) about their being Judgement Day everyday. Correct me if I am wrong but my understanding is on Resurrection/Judgement Day we will awake standing before Judgment with no awareness of time from our death until then. So, what is this about the Spirit returning to God?

 

[RLT63]

Hmmm. It seems we are on the same page regarding the likely different sense in which the word is used in Scripture. :)

I think, like you, many people use the terms interchangeably or synonymously. One thing that I'm not clear about is the significance of the expression the spirit returns to God.

I can't recall if I recently asked you or @RLT63 (maybe it was MatthewG? ) about their being Judgement Day everyday. Correct me if I am wrong but my understanding is on Resurrection/Judgement Day we will awake standing before Judgment with no awareness of time from our death until then. So, what is this about the Spirit returning to God?

Luk 23:42
And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.

Luk 23:43
¶
And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise.

Luk 16:22
And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;

Luk 16:23
And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

 

[Wrangler]

I wish you would not merely copy and paste. Doubtful that I will properly discern your intent. These verses do not seem relevant to my point.

Luk 23:42

And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.

Luk 23:43
¶
And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise.

I may have told you about the misplaced comma. I think it should be after today, not before.

Luk 16:22
And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;

Luk 16:23
And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom

A parable, not necessarily a reflection of what really happens. See all the references to death being equated with sleep, where there is no awareness of the passage of time.

 

[RLT63]

I wish you would not merely copy and paste. Doubtful that I will properly discern your intent. These verses do not seem relevant to my point.

Luk 23:42


I may have told you about the misplaced comma. I think it should be after today, not before.


A parable, not necessarily a reflection of what really happens. See all the references to death being equated with sleep, where there is no awareness of the passage of time.

A misplaced comma, LOL. What other parable gives names to the people mentioned? This is not a parable

 

[farouk]

A misplaced comma, LOL. What other parable gives names to the people mentioned? This is not a parable

There is indeed overwhelming evidence in Scripture of the Deity of Christ. Attempts to say otherwise are doomed to failure.

 

[Wrangler]

A misplaced comma, LOL. What other parable gives names to the people mentioned? This is not a parable

Not sure what is funny. From Rich man and Lazarus - Wikipedia:
The rich man and Lazarus (also called the parable of Dives and Lazarus or Lazarus and Dives)[a] is a parable of Jesus from the 16th chapter of the Gospel of Luke.

 

[Wrangler]

There is indeed overwhelming evidence in Scripture of the Deity of Christ. Attempts to say otherwise are doomed to failure.

Speculation does not count as evidence, let alone overwhelming.

 

[RLT63]

Not sure what is funny. From Rich man and Lazarus - Wikipedia:
The rich man and Lazarus (also called the parable of Dives and Lazarus or Lazarus and Dives)[a] is a parable of Jesus from the 16th chapter of the Gospel of Luke.

St. Jerome and others view the story not as a parable, but as an actual event which was related by Jesus to his followers.[9][10][11]

Supporters of this view point to a key detail in the story: the use of a personal name (Lazarus) not found in any other parable. By contrast, in all of the other parables Jesus refers to a central character by a description, such as "a certain man", "a sower", and so forth.[12]

 

[Wrangler]

St. Jerome and others view the story not as a parable, but as an actual event which was related by Jesus to his followers.[9][10][11]

Supporters of this view point to a key detail in the story: the use of a personal name (Lazarus) not found in any other parable. By contrast, in all of the other parables Jesus refers to a central character by a description, such as "a certain man", "a sower", and so forth.[12]

Yup. They are in the minority. Hence the part I posted where it is identified as a parable.

Do you think people are aware after they die - before the Resurrection Day?

 

[GEN2REV]

Hmmm. It seems we are on the same page regarding the likely different sense in which the word is used in Scripture. :)

I think, like you, many people use the terms interchangeably or synonymously. One thing that I'm not clear about is the significance of the expression the spirit returns to God.

I can't recall if I recently asked you or @RLT63 (maybe it was MatthewG? ) about their being Judgement Day everyday. Correct me if I am wrong but my understanding is on Resurrection/Judgement Day we will awake standing before Judgment with no awareness of time from our death until then. So, what is this about the Spirit returning to God?

This actually brings up a theory that I have, that is fully supported by Scripture, and that most simply cannot endure because there is zero teaching on it outside of the Bible.

That theory is that ONLY believers, who have the Holy Spirit, are resurrected.

Look at the points you made. The Bible says the spirit returns to God, right? Ok, we also see that Jesus refers to those who have not the Spirit as dead.

"Let the dead bury the dead."
Luke 9:60

We could Biblically conclude that God is in the heavenly realm (despite the omnipresent Truth as well). When we die, our spirit goes to be with God, IF it has life.

How does our spirit obtain life? Jesus says in John 6 that it is the ingesting of His Words that nurture the spirit inside of us; that quickens us, that gives us spiritual LIFE.

John 6:63, 68

Therefore, those who have not the Spirit, have nothing to nurture with God's Words and have no life. They are dead.

As far as the resurrection you referred to, that is the reunion of our spirit with our physical bodies. If all that I have related is True, that is not possible for the unsaved/unbelieving.

Which has huge implications for some of the most common false doctrines.

 

[Wrangler]

That theory is that ONLY believers, who have the Holy Spirit, are resurrected.

We finally agreee!

I know @Aunty Jane firmly believes there is no eternal fiery hell. It seems very unloving to raise someone from the dead, only to torture them for eternity.

 

[RLT63]

Yup. They are in the minority. Hence the part I posted where it is identified as a parable.

Do you think people are aware after they die - before the Resurrection Day?

If we sleep until the resurrection I have read that it will seem instant to us anyway. I don't know how anyone would know. But Paul said to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord and to die is gain so I think that like the thief on the cross we will be in Paradise when we die.
New Living Translation
For to me, living means living for Christ, and dying is even better.