Does John 1:1 say Jesus is God

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Peterlag

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It's imperative that the serious student of the Bible come to a basic understanding of logos, which is translated as "Word" in John 1:1. Most Trinitarians believe that the word logos refers directly to Jesus Christ, so in most versions of John logos is capitalized and translated "Word" (some versions even write "Christ" in John 1:1 - TLB & NLV). However, a study of the Greek word logos shows that it occurs more than 300 times in the New Testament, and in both the NIV and the KJV it is capitalized only 7 times (and even those versions disagree on exactly when to capitalize it). When a word that occurs more than 300 times is capitalized fewer than 10 times, it's obvious that when to capitalize and when not to capitalize is a translator's decision based on their particular understanding of Scripture.

As it's used throughout Scripture, logos has a very wide range of meanings along two basic lines of thought. One is the mind and products of the mind like "reason" (thus "logic" is related to logos) and the other is the expression of that reason as a "word" "saying" "command" etc. The Bible itself demonstrates the wide range of meaning logos has, and some of the ways it's translated in Scripture are: account, appearance, book, command, conversation, eloquence, flattery, grievance, heard, instruction, matter, message, ministry, news, proposal, question, reason, reasonable, reply, report, rule, rumor, said, say, saying, sentence, speaker, speaking, speech, stories, story, talk, talking, teaching, testimony, thing, things, this, truths, what, why, word and words.

Any good Greek lexicon will also show this wide range of meaning (the words underlined are translated from logos):

Romans 15:18 ...what I have said and done
Matthew 21:24 ...I will also ask you one question
1 Timothy 5:17 ...especially those whose work is preaching and teaching
Galatians 5:14 The entire law is summed up in a single command
John 4:37 Thus the saying, One sows, and another reaps
Luke 4:32 his message had authority
John 6:60 ...This is a hard teaching
Acts 8:21 You have no part or share in this ministry
Matthew 15:6 ...you nullify the word of God
Hebrews 13:7 ...leaders, who spoke the word of God
Matthew 12:36 ...men will have to give account on the day of judgment
Matthew 18:23 ...a king who wanted to settle accounts with his servants
Philippians 4:15 ...the matter of giving and receiving
 
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GEN2REV

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Yes, I do take the verse For us, there is one God, the Father. Pure Scripture as in depth doctrine all to itself - consistent with the Shema, 1C, 1 COR 11:3, and Jesus' own statements of his God is the only true God.

And your claim is summarily rejected for it implies that God contradicts himself. This, again reveals your circular reasoning. You start with your doctrine and claim the Bible as a whole supports it. The truth is the EXACT OPPOSITE as I have repeatedly shown.
Nope.

He's making a reference to all the hundreds/thousands of idol demon gods and all the Bible OT & NT support that.

All those gods are illegitimate gods. There is only ONE God.

No contradiction. No denial of His deity.
 
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GEN2REV

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No sir. The only reason for Jesus to be baptized is for the contents to be poured into him.
The contents were poured into Him at His Divine Conception or He'd have had no Father at all.

His baptism was to baptize His flesh AND to make yet another example to us of how to live and what we needed to do in order to be followers of Christ.

In order to be Christians.
 
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Wrangler

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In light of your stated beliefs, do you consider yourself a Christian?

If so, how?
I said I am a Biblical Christian. That’s how I consider myself a Christian.

This means I do not accept doctrines that are not an explicit teaching in the Bible.
 

Wrangler

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Nope.

He's making a reference to all the hundreds/thousands of idol demon gods and all the Bible OT & NT support that.

All those gods are illegitimate gods. There is only ONE God.

No contradiction. No denial of His deity.
Jesus says there is only one true God - who is NOT Jesus. And you don’t take that as a denial of Jesus being a deity? PUL-EASE.
 

GEN2REV

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I said I am a Biblical Christian. That’s how I consider myself a Christian.

This means I do not accept doctrines that are not an explicit teaching in the Bible.
A Christian is a follower of Christ, by definition.

You don't even believe in Christ.

Are you a follower of a mortal man?

If so, how?
 

GEN2REV

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I do not accept doctrines that are not an explicit teaching in the Bible.
Is this not a teaching by Christ in the Bible?

"If you do not believe that I am He, you will die in your sins."
Matthew 8:24

Sounds pretty explicit to me.
 

Wrangler

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A Christian is a follower of Christ, by definition.

You don't even believe in Christ.

Are you a follower of a mortal man?

If so, how?
I do believe in Christ. You deny this means Anointed by God.

Jesus is a man Anointed by God.

Jesus is the first fruit of a new creation. We share in his inheritance. As mortals we can be confident that we mortals, will be resurrected into a glorified, immortal body - as Jesus was.

I think you deny Col 1:18 and only admit Col 1:15. First fruits imply a series of like to follow.

If Jesus were God, we would not have the assurance of the proof of this first fruit, a mortal man (and only a mortal man) being resurrected into a glorified, immortal body.
 

Wrangler

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Is this not a teaching by Christ in the Bible?

"If you do not believe that I am He, you will die in your sins."
Matthew 8:24

Sounds pretty explicit to

Is this not a teaching by Christ in the Bible?

"If you do not believe that I am He, you will die in your sins."
Matthew 8:24

Sounds pretty explicit to me.
All the Gospels were writtent to testify that Jesus was the Son of God.
1. Matthew 1:18. Now the birth of Jesus the Messiah[a] took place in this way.
2. Mark 1:1 This is the Good News about Jesus the Messiah, the Son of God.
3. Luke 3:21 One day when the crowds were being baptized, Jesus himself was baptized. As he was praying, the heavens opened, 22 and the Holy Spirit, in bodily form, descended on him like a dove. And a voice from heaven said, “You are my dearly loved Son, and you bring me great joy.
4. The most anti-trinitarian book in the whole Bible, John also explicitly tells us at 20:31 that everything he wrote was to prove something other than the idea that Jesus is God; namely, that Jesus is God’s Anointed.

The Big Reveal of Jesus ministry is NOT that he was God incarnate but the Messiah. 3 times he confessed this: to the woman at the well, affirming Peter’s confession and to Caiaphas; his great “I am.” Mark 14:61-62 (VOICE) High Priest: Are You God’s Anointed, the Liberating King, the Son of the Blessed One? Jesus: I am. Jesus did not die because he claimed to be God. This verse explicitly teaches that Jesus died because he claimed to be the Son of God.

I believe Jesus is the Son of God, his great I am.
 
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GEN2REV

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I do believe in Christ. You deny this means Anointed by God.

Jesus is a man Anointed by God.

Jesus is the first fruit of a new creation. We share in his inheritance. As mortals we can be confident that we mortals, will be resurrected into a glorified, immortal body - as Jesus was.

I think you deny Col 1:18 and only admit Col 1:15. First fruits imply a series of like to follow.

If Jesus were God, we would not have the assurance of the proof of this first fruit, a mortal man (and only a mortal man) being resurrected into a glorified, immortal body.
You choose to ignore the facts that have been presented/stated many times now.

Jesus physical body was mortal. That was His mother's contribution to Him.

You also equate Jesus with the mortal prophets. They were all anointed by God. Read about Isaiah and Jeremiah, being filled with the Spirit from the womb. That has also been clarified many times.

They were very different in that they all had mortal fathers.

A person cannot have God Almighty for their Father, their conceptual Father, and not be deity. And because there is no True deity but God, if they are NOT God, they are demon.

If A: Jesus' Father was God Almighty,

and B: Jesus was/is not a demon,

then C: Jesus IS GOD.

Simple ... and every point is Biblically verifiable.
 
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Wrangler

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You choose to ignore the facts that have been presented/stated many times now.
I showed how you are denying Col 1:18. It'd be nice if you could comment on that before accusing me of denying things.

And for the record, I am not denying anything in the Bible. I just don't accept you reading your doctrine onto unitarian text as the proper way to interpret what the unitarian authors were conveying.
 

Wrangler

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You also equate Jesus with the mortal prophets. They were all anointed by God. Read about Isaiah and Jeremiah, being filled with the Spirit from the womb. That has also been clarified many times.
Agreed.

But all God's Anointed had a role. The definite article tells the story of the uniqueness of Jesus. He was THE one Moses told us about, THE CHRIST, THE anointed one who would deliver us from our sins.
 

GEN2REV

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All the Gospels were writtent to testify that Jesus was the Son of God.
1. Matthew 1:18. Now the birth of Jesus the Messiah[a] took place in this way.
2. Mark 1:1 This is the Good News about Jesus the Messiah, the Son of God.
3. Luke 3:21 One day when the crowds were being baptized, Jesus himself was baptized. As he was praying, the heavens opened, 22 and the Holy Spirit, in bodily form, descended on him like a dove. And a voice from heaven said, “You are my dearly loved Son, and you bring me great joy.
4. The most anti-trinitarian book in the whole Bible, John also explicitly tells us at 20:31 that everything he wrote was to prove something other than the idea that Jesus is God; namely, that Jesus is God’s Anointed.

The Big Reveal of Jesus ministry is NOT that he was God incarnate but the Messiah. 3 times he confessed this: to the woman at the well, affirming Peter’s confession and to Caiaphas; his great “I am.” Mark 14:61-62 (VOICE) High Priest: Are You God’s Anointed, the Liberating King, the Son of the Blessed One? Jesus: I am. Jesus did not die because he claimed to be God. This verse explicitly teaches that Jesus died because he claimed to be the Son of God.

I believe Jesus is the Son of God, his great I am.
The Son of God IS God.

God is a spirit. John 4:24

A spirit cannot procreate like physical flesh and blood human. Therefore, if a spirit puts itself into a human womb/egg, what is born IS THAT SPIRIT.

The human process is for the male's body to contribute DNA, mixing with the female's DNA. What comes of THAT union is a mixture of human and human DNA; attributes, characteristics etc. to create a NEW creature. A different, separate creation, an amalgam of the two contributing sources of HUMAN PHYSICAL FLESH and spirit.

Jesus' mother contributed her physical DNA and flesh to God's Spirit. Jesus had no physical flesh characteristics from His Father. It was literally His Father's Spirit that animated Him. Because His Father IS A SPIRIT, it was The Father that was the Life inside that human body.

I can't make it any clearer.
 

Wrangler

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A person cannot have God Almighty for their Father, their conceptual Father, and not be deity.
So, in your estimation, Adam was a deity?

Guess what? All of us have God as our conceptual Father. That's why we call him Father. Why else do you think we call Jesus' God, Father, our Father?
 

GEN2REV

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AS IF there were any other part of Jesus existence besides being a man, like me and you.
Listen, I will accept that you have no soul. But as for me, and most others, we are at least a body and a soul.

Jesus was a physical body AND A SOUL.

His soul WAS GOD ALMIGHTY.
 
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