Does Christian Universalism sidestep the justice of God?

[Patrick1966]

True, just not the truth people want to force up it. When a Christian struggles to support their doctrine where do they go?
Yup!

You just make up your own doctrines, such as the damned ceasing to exist.

 

[MatthewG]

Remeber the bible is a trust worthy source of information. Dont neglect it. You can, but its not wise. The flesh is weak but the spirit is willing.

 

[Patrick1966]

And those who resist? Do not conform to God's truth?

Jesus will rule until ALL of his "enemies" are obedient to him and then Jesus will give them ALL to God. 1 Corinthians 15. Go read it.

 

[Patrick1966]

I use the NET & ESV - left the KJV over 15 years ago.

Try Young's Literal Translation and the Concordant Literal New Testament. Both are available online. The ESV is great for ease of reading but has significant mistranslations on matters of time.

 

[MatthewG]

Does Christian Universalism sidestep the justice of God?​

Yes I believe so.

You all have a good day.

 

[face2face]

You are wrong AGAIN.

No Patrick

You see the problem with you is this - someone taught you error and you absorb it into your being and now it's almost impossible to remove it. It's part of your spiritual DNA and no matter how hard I show you the truth you will not turn from your error.

Take Israel as an example of Rev 14:11 this is what you read right?

11 And the smoke of their torment will rise for ever and ever. There will be no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and its image, or for anyone who receives the mark of its name.”

But of Israel in Isaiah 34:10 it states this:

It will not be quenched night or day; its smoke will rise forever. From generation to generation it will lie desolate; no one will ever pass through it again.

Is smoke rising from Israel to this day Patrick?

The truth is this Patrick - the Bible exaggerates things to drive home the point that total destruction will eventuate, as it did for Jerusalem, it will also for Babylon!

Now I know you will not admit you misquoted and misinterpreted Rev 14:11 - I know this because error is engrained in your thinking and no matter the evidence you will not show honesty.

Isaiah 34:10 cmp Rev 14:11 is a simple text to interpret but you frustrate its meaning because you are willingly ignorant = impossible to teach.

F2F

 

[face2face]

Try Young's Literal Translation and the Concordant Literal New Testament. Both are available online. The ESV is great for ease of reading but has significant mistranslations on matters of time.

Yeah yeah...you cant interpret Rev 14:11 correctly so at this point you could be using the Childrens Bible and it would do you more good!

 

[face2face]

You just make up your own doctrines, such as the damned ceasing to exist.

You don't know how to interpret figurative language because your faith is based on literalism.

Wisdom requires diligence and prayer not a hyper literal reading of the Word and forcing notions upon it.
F2F

 

[face2face]

@Patrick1966

Next time you read smoke going up for ever and ever or or no rest day or night for ever and ever DONT assume you understand what that means because it’s clear you do not! Don't be like SteVen who thinks he has found some new thing In UR only to find out when the Lord returns, he created his own god in his own image and what happens when he finds out that god is a fake? a figment of his imagination?

Show more care in how you read and interpret the Word of God....please!

F2F

 

[Rockerduck]

Both of these verses are from the King James Version. The first verse says that Jesus is the savior of ALL men. The second verse, also from the KJV, says that some men are forever punished in the Lake of Fire. So which verse is correct?

1 Timothy 4:10 KJV
For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of ALL men, specially of those that believe.

Matthew 25:46 KJV
46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

Jesus said one and the Apostle Paul said the other. I like the way Jesus says it.

 

[face2face]

Lol you don't even know what the Bible says.

Just as Moses extended mercy to Korah, Dathan and Abiram I will do the same for you ;)

 

[Patrick1966]

you are willingly ignorant = impossible to teach

Says the guy who makes up doctrine out of thin air.

 

[Patrick1966]

@Patrick1966

Next time you read smoke going up for ever and ever or or no rest day or night for ever and ever DONT assume you understand what that means because it’s clear you do not! Don't be like SteVen who thinks he has found some new thing In UR only to find out when the Lord returns, he created his own god in his own image and what happens when he finds out that god is a fake? a figment of his imagination?

Show more care in how you read and interpret the Word of God....please!

F2F

 

[face2face]

View attachment 35769

While we are in Rev 14 you will note Babylon the Great suffers the same fate of Sodom. As the smoke of Sodom "went up" in the sight of Abraham (Read Gen 19:28), so that of Babylon is said to do so in the sight of his glorified seed.

I'm wondering if you have the depth to understand this? Or will you resort to meaningless GIF's

F2F

 

[Patrick1966]

Just as Moses extended mercy to Korah, Dathan and Abiram I will do the same for you ;)

You can take the last shot.

Jesus doesn't throw people into a "hot box" and then abandon them there to suffer forever. He doesn't eliminate them into non-existence. He heals them. He refines them. He saves them. That's why Paul said in 1 Timothy 4:10 that Jesus IS THE SAVIOR OF ALL MEN, not the potential savior, THE savior of ALL!

For whatever reason you and most other mainstream Christians reject these basic truths and believe the false doctrine that Jesus tortures people FOREVER.

 

[face2face]

Says the guy who makes up doctrine out of thin air.

Laugh all you want Patrick...do you have no answer to Isa 34:10 & Rev 14:11?
Waterless cloud?

 

[Patrick1966]

Even the Universalist might be in for a surprise.

Paul said Jesus must rule until ALL of Jesus's enemies are loyal to him. Do you reject that scripture?

 

[face2face]

You can take the last shot.

Jesus doesn't throw people into a "hot box" and then abandon them there to suffer forever. He doesn't eliminate them into non-existence. He heals them. He refines them. He saves them. That's why Paul said in 1 Timothy 4:10 that Jesus IS THE SAVIOR OF ALL MEN, not the potential savior, THE savior of ALL!

For whatever reason you and most other mainstream Christians reject these basic truths and believe the false doctrine that Jesus tortures people FOREVER.

You must be a fool if you have failed to read my posts as they teach you I DONT believe Jesus tortures people forever. Immortality is sought and given to the just by faith...no one has immortality on this planet!
F2F

 

[Patrick1966]

Laugh all you want Patrick...do you have no answer to Isa 34:10 & Rev 14:11?
Waterless cloud?

You said that Jesus eliminates people from existence and I gave you a scriptural response to refute that doctrine after you accused others of ignoring said scriptures.

Let's stick to the topic.

 

[face2face]

Paul said Jesus must rule until ALL of Jesus's enemies are loyal to him. Do you reject that scripture?

I wont let you run from Isa 34:10 & Rev 14:11

Can you see your error?