Difficulty Reconciling

[Behold]

GracePeace does not want us debating it and besides we have debate this topic before.
It is enough to say I will always disagree with Once Saved Always Saved.

But you agree that the same Jesus who saves us with His Sacrifice, is our Savior......and so He both saves us and keeps us saved.

Do you believe this yet?

Now, here is the thing.......when you say......>>"well, as long as im good and keep the commandments"... ect ect.

So what is that?

That is a person who believes that Jesus only begins salvation and then they become their own savior.......trusting in themselves, to "stay saved".

And when you have that mind.......then you DO NOT TRUST IN CHRIST......, as trust in Christ has to maintain that "Jesus who saved me... KEEPS ME SAVED"............as if you believe that Jesus does not keep you saved.. .then ... who does?

Who does?

Reader.....if You believe its YOU who keeps you saved, so that is = NO FAITH in Christ......

That is "broken faith".

That is "fallen from Grace"., as Paul teaches in Galatians.

 

[Lambano]

I'm not saying "I have found contradictions", I'm asking, "How do you all reconcile these things?"

Do they even need to be reconciled? Sometimes the paradox IS the point.

So surrender the hunger to say, "I must know!"​

Have the courage to say, "I believe!"​

For the power of paradox opens your eyes,​

And blinds those who say they can see.​

- Michael Card

 

[Lambano]

What does it mean to really believe in (or trust) Jesus?

How does it affect your life?

 

[GracePeace]

Do they even need to be reconciled? Sometimes the paradox IS the point.

So surrender the hunger to say, "I must know!"​

Have the courage to say, "I believe!"​

For the power of paradox opens your eyes,​

And blinds those who say they can see.​

- Michael Card

Abraham didn't do that, he found how both seemingly mutually exclusive propositions told to him could be true.

 

[Behold]

What does it mean to really believe in (or trust) Jesus?

How does it affect your life?

Faith is Trust.

Trust is Belief.

So, to put your faith in Christ, is to put your Believing TRUST in Him...= knowing He is your Savior.

God sees this inside us. And if anyone has put their Trust in Christ, then God saw this faith the moment you did..... .and He accepted it... to accept us......and always will.

Now we belong to Him, and always will.

Reader, dont you know that Jesus is your Savior?
Don't you know it?

That's Faith.

 

[CadyandZoe]

You should get to know the Lord Jesus and actually read some of the things He said View attachment 60934

From now on, you should take it for granted that I do know the Lord and read what he said.

The phrase "Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect" is found in Matthew 5:48 and emphasizes the call for individuals to strive for moral and spiritual perfection, reflecting the nature of God.

I disagree. Jesus isn't talking about moral perfection in that context. His talk concerns double-mindedness. For instance, a double-minded person loves his friends but hates his enemies. A single-minded (perfect) person loves both his friends and his enemies.

The phrase "Be ye holy; for I am holy" is found in 1 Peter 1:16 emphasizing the call for believers to live a life of holiness, reflecting God's nature.

I agree. We are called to be holy. And we should obey the Apostle.

This thread concerns salvation and my comment should be understood in that context. God does not require that we attain perfect moral goodness before he will save us. Paul says that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. And now that we are friends, God will not fail to give us what we hope for -- eternal life.

 

[CadyandZoe]

Now, it may be that you see no issue with the two sides presented in the OP. You are free to move on in that case.

I don't see a reason to reconcile them because they aren't mutually exclusive ideas in my mind. How long would it take for you to state the issue explicitly so that I and others can understand why you think they are mutually exclusive?

 

[GracePeace]

I don't see a reason to reconcile them because they aren't mutually exclusive ideas in my mind.

OK
Remember, I am soliciting peoples' opinions on how to reconcile the two, so, since you don't see a need to reconcile the two, and have no answers to that effect, how were you hoping to help?

How long would it take for you to state the issue explicitly so that I and others can understand why you think they are mutually exclusive?

If eternal life hinges exclusively on believing in Christ, that happens in a single moment, and you have it, and it will not be in question any longer as long as you live; if eternal life hinges on doing good, then, even if you do already have it (because you believed in Christ), still, as long as you can fail to do good / as long as you live, whether or not you will (ultimately) have eternal life remains uncertain / in question.

 

[Grailhunter]

OK
Remember, I am soliciting peoples' opinions on how to reconcile the two, so, since you don't see a need to reconcile the two, and have no answers to that effect, how were you hoping to help?

If eternal life hinges exclusively on believing in Christ, that happens in a single moment, and you have it, and it will not be in question any longer as long as you live; if eternal life hinges on doing good, then, even if you do already have it (because you believed in Christ), still, as long as you can fail to do good / as long as you live, whether or not you will (ultimately) have eternal life remains uncertain / in question.

No free lunch.

 

[GracePeace]

No free lunch.

In John's Gospel, there was a free lunch (Jn 6) lol

 

[GracePeace]

No free lunch.

Remember he asked me to explicate the issue I was having with reconciling the two--I am not able to arrive at a firm conclusion, so I'm not asserting there is or isn't a free lunch.

Also, I could imagine someone arguing that it isn't a free lunch because God paid a high price in order to give the lunch to us.

 

[Grailhunter]

In John's Gospel, there was a free lunch (Jn 6) lol

Ask Christ if it was free and cannibals are generally not saved even if they love their food. LOL

 

[GracePeace]

...and cannibals are generally not saved even if they love their food. LOL

Wait, are you talking about Catholics? Lol

 

[Grailhunter]

Remember he asked me to explicate the issue I was having with reconciling the two--I am not able to arrive at a firm conclusion, so I'm not asserting there is or isn't a free lunch.

Also, I could imagine someone arguing that it isn't a free lunch because God paid a high price in order to give the lunch to us.

You want to reconcile something that is not in the same category.
I tried to explain that.
What does belief mean to you….what did it mean to them?
In the broad sense to them belief on Him means follower and follower means to emulate Him and His attitudes and actions.
So again it is not any one thing or action.

 

[GracePeace]

You want to reconcile something that is not in the same category.
I tried to explain that.
What does belief mean to you….what did it mean to them?
In the broad sense to them belief on Him means follower and follower means to emulate Him and His attitudes and actions.
So again it is not any one thing or action.

1. So, I'll put your way of reconciling them as rejecting the idea that they even need reconciling.
2. Reconcile something that isn't in the same category? If eternal life is said to hinge on the one, how can it hinge on the other--how are they different categories? How is it a gift when you're working for it your whole life?

 

[Grailhunter]

1. So, I'll put your way of reconciling them as rejecting the idea that they even need reconciling.
2. Reconcile something that isn't in the same category? If eternal life is said to hinge on the one, how can it hinge on the other--how are they different categories? How is it a gift when you're working for it your whole life?

Carefully re-read post 414.

Part of the style of the time period was to write verses that seem to be absolutes. Because of that they seem to contradict but it was just their style. So considering what it is not is important to put them in perspective. And we can find this throughout the New Testament. The “you must be perfect” topic is an example of this. Because the style was writing some scriptures as absolutes is one of the reasons that people can give seeming contradictive scriptures to each other when they debate on this forum.

How is it a gift when you're working for it your whole life? Working for it? Is wrong thinking….don’t get hung up on the word work….it is one of the big misconception in Christianity. Works does not mean being moral is works….Works generally only pertains to the Mosaic Law. So then, my beloved, just as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your salvation with fear and trembling; Philippians 2:12

The Christian life is a journey. We go through the process of salvation….Acts 2:38 and the Bread and Wine Ritual and then we start the journey of living your life as a Christian. None of this is works. Salvation changes you, if it does not, you are not saved. Once Saved Always Saved is one of the biggest lies in Christianity. Salvation is not a license to sin.

 

[PS95]

I have difficulty reconciling some verses in John.
How do you all reconcile the following verses?

1. On one hand, it seems like all we need to do to have eternal life is to believe in Jesus.

John 3:16For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
John 6:29Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent. ... 35Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life; he who comes to Me will not hunger, and he who believes in Me will never thirst. 36“But I said to you that you have seen Me, and yet do not believe. ... 40For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day.”
68Simon Peter answered Him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have words of eternal life.

2a. On the other hand, it seems like mere belief is not enough, but, at bare minimum, one must deny oneself/not indulge in sin to the point of confessing faith in Christ (by adding "confession" to "faith", the "faith" required cannot be defined as "faith alone", but "faith... plus...")....

John 12:42Nevertheless many even of the rulers believed in Him, but because of the Pharisees they were not confessing Him, for fear that they would be put out of the synagogue; 43for they loved the approval of men rather than the approval of God.

2b. In the same chapter that seems to define "drinking" and "eating" as "believing" (to have eternal life), He defines the eating and drinking as "doing the works of the One Who sent you".

John 4:32But He told them, “I have food to eat that you know nothing about.” ... 34Jesus explained, “My food is to do the will of Him who sent Me and to finish His work.
6:56Whoever eats My flesh and drinks My blood remains in Me, and I in him. 57Just as the living Father sent Me and I live because of the Father, so also the one who feeds on Me will live because of Me.

Hi GP,
I read much of this thread, but not all of it so please excuse me if what I'm about to say has already been said, ok?
I was raised in a religion that does not teach that Jesus died for our sins. They were far removed from Jesus and taught that He only died for Adam's sin. Therefore, I had no relationship with Christ or understanding of what He accomplished at Calvary .It's a dark place to be.. (JW's)

When I finally did learn that Jesus died for MY sins and yours through the scriptures-I was astonished and could hardly grasp that kind of love. I felt that I didn't deserve it. Ha and i don't! I felt that I needed to do something to repay Him for it. I wasn't sure what to do. I could not join a church because I was still battling teachings that churches were all evil..

Fast forwarding.. I eventually came to the foot of His cross. I saw Him enduring horrendous torture for me- my sins. I had many. I saw the blood dripping from his crown of thorns. I saw the nails in his hands and his feet and the blood gushing. i realized that I put Him there. I saw His eyes full of love and meekness. My heart broke. I thought of my sins individually and saw just how horrible and hopeless I was. I sat and wept at His feet and no matter how hard I tried to say something worthwhile all that i could manage to utter was, "thank you Lord" I was in awe of this kind of love. I was an insignificant flea full of sins. Yet. He did that for me? And He did! There are no words. As the song goes " I can scarcely take it in". Oh wow, now that song even made sense to me.
It's been a long battle for me but I can tell you this- that day can never be replayed, but I absolutely have to sit at the foot of His cross daily to remember His love. Sometimes more than once a day. For me it's key.
His love is what saves us. His Love is everything-

We love Him because he first loved us. That IS why I love Him. I can't love someone that I am commanded to love. I love Him because He loved me enough to die for my sick sin filled life. He cared. I don't know why but He did. God is love..? Yes, that's why.

Ok having said all of that- when we believe in Him, it's not just a mental acknowledgement.. or it shouldn't be. It's a life changing moment of staring straight at what real love is. If that doesn't provoke us to want to obey Him then I can't imagine what would. To love man more so that you would be afraid to confess Jesus was showing their hearts. Do they love him or do they love man more? Do you see what I'm trying to say? The "works" of confessing Him is merely obedience flowing from faith working through love. Love for Christ. It's our love for Him that causes us to want to do what is pleasing to Him. Who knows that when we confess him who will hear and believe? It's our faith in Him working. True Faith works. Those works can't ever save us. Jesus does! Our faith doesn't remain alone- it reveals itself thru love.
Remember that Abraham believed God and was declared righteous. It was many years later when Abraham had Isaac and took him to the mountain. It was a test of His faith.

I can tell you that pretty much everyday- I battle. The enemy tells me I am not saved. I don't belong to Jesus etc etc all day long. I went through a time of misunderstanding grace and works and thought I had to do works to be saved. Cart meet horse!! We cant do the works until we are saved. ONLY when we abide in His love can we bear fruit.
Jesus said " Why do you call me Lord and don't do the things that I say?" bingo. We obey him because we love him. Again why do we love him? Go to the cross! <---- it's always the cross!
I have days when I get super busy and skip prayer & bible time and I can tell you that I begin to drag. It starts a downward spiral and I'm wide open for the lies of satan. So, what I try to do is go to the foot of that cross often and remember who I serve and why I love Him.
I think that may help you as well. Remembering what He did for us is something he asked us to do right? Do this in memory of me? communion? Remember what he suffered for you.. You can remember even without the bread and wine ritual too. Just keep your eyes on Him. He is the author and finisher of our faith.. Keep your eyes fixed on Him.
Go to the cross and stay til you weep. Pray and listen. You wont always hear God speak to you, but I do believe that you will see Him in your life in a way that is unmistakable. it's kind of like he rewards us for seeking! Ex. I will have a specific question on my mind and pray about it and later that day or the next that particular Q is answered. I listen to a radio station that plays Christian music most of the time with with some teachings, and I cant tell you how many times what I have asked God is answered by one of those men. It's crazy because the majority of the time the station is music with only a few teachers briefly.
One day I had been going through a lot of pain and tumultuous stuff and I thought maybe I was being refined but I also wondered if I was losing my marbles.. I was out in my garden, and it was spring and I was pulling the dead sticks and leaves out of a plant and fluffing the new growth- when I heard this.." That is what i am doing to you".----- not audible of course, but I heard it loud and clear. I was stunned at first, but I knew deep inside of me that what I heard was true. That IS what He had been doing in me, for me. I had been seeing my sins (sins of thought) and being convicted and I was growing. Wow.. is all I thought. He makes us new. We are born anew.. mind blowing.

As we go thru time with the Lord He is perfecting us in love. 1 John 4:18 where there is no fear of punishment. As we remain in His love it cast outs all fear. So remain in His love- if you have to go to the cross like I do for a wake up reminder- do it! The things that worried me prior are gone. The worldly news doesn't matter- the cranky man next door is now not such a jerk, but a lost soul who needs Christ's love too. Maybe he will see Christ in my love or my confession someday? Maybe I will just plant a seed so that someone else can water?
Pray, study. ask, trust, and most of all rejoice in the Lord always!! Again I say rejoice!!

Believing is completely trusting in the Lord Jesus- a life long commitment - a deep love. A marriage of sorts. He is the our Lord of our lives. We belong to Him now and not ourselves. It's a lot to swallow, but it's all good. Trust Him. His blood saves you. iI hope something here helps you my friend. I am sure you already know most of what I wrote but a refresher is always good too. In this world we have tribulation but take heart. One day It will all be gone. There is much more I could say to you but this has run long. Sorry.
I wish you much peace as the Lord does too.

 

[Grailhunter]

Hi GP,
I read much of this thread, but not all of it so please excuse me if what I'm about to say has already been said, ok?
I was raised in a religion that does not teach that Jesus died for our sins. They were far removed from Jesus and taught that He only died for Adam's sin. Therefore, I had no relationship with Christ or understanding of what He accomplished at Calvary .It's a dark place to be.. (JW's)

When I finally did learn that Jesus died for MY sins and yours through the scriptures-I was astonished and could hardly grasp that kind of love. I felt that I didn't deserve it. Ha and i don't! I felt that I needed to do something to repay Him for it. I wasn't sure what to do. I could not join a church because I was still battling teachings that churches were all evil..

Fast forwarding.. I eventually came to the foot of His cross. I saw Him enduring horrendous torture for me- my sins. I had many. I saw the blood dripping from his crown of thorns. I saw the nails in his hands and his feet and the blood gushing. i realized that I put Him there. I saw His eyes full of love and meekness. My heart broke. I thought of my sins individually and saw just how horrible and hopeless I was. I sat and wept at His feet and no matter how hard I tried to say something worthwhile all that i could manage to utter was, "thank you Lord" I was in awe of this kind of love. I was an insignificant flea full of sins. Yet. He did that for me? And He did! There are no words. As the song goes " I can scarcely take it in". Oh wow, now that song even made sense to me.
It's been a long battle for me but I can tell you this- that day can never be replayed, but I absolutely have to sit at the foot of His cross daily to remember His love. Sometimes more than once a day. For me it's key.
His love is what saves us. His Love is everything-

We love Him because he first loved us. That IS why I love Him. I can't love someone that I am commanded to love. I love Him because He loved me enough to die for my sick sin filled life. He cared. I don't know why but He did. God is love..? Yes, that's why.

Ok having said all of that- when we believe in Him, it's not just a mental acknowledgement.. or it shouldn't be. It's a life changing moment of staring straight at what real love is. If that doesn't provoke us to want to obey Him then I can't imagine what would. To love man more so that you would be afraid to confess Jesus was showing their hearts. Do they love him or do they love man more? Do you see what I'm trying to say? The "works" of confessing Him is merely obedience flowing from faith working through love. Love for Christ. It's our love for Him that causes us to want to do what is pleasing to Him. Who knows that when we confess him who will hear and believe? It's our faith in Him working. True Faith works. Those works can't ever save us. Jesus does! Our faith doesn't remain alone- it reveals itself thru love.
Remember that Abraham believed God and was declared righteous. It was many years later when Abraham had Isaac and took him to the mountain. It was a test of His faith.

I can tell you that pretty much everyday- I battle. The enemy tells me I am not saved. I don't belong to Jesus etc etc all day long. I went through a time of misunderstanding grace and works and thought I had to do works to be saved. Cart meet horse!! We cant do the works until we are saved. ONLY when we abide in His love can we bear fruit.
Jesus said " Why do you call me Lord and don't do the things that I say?" bingo. We obey him because we love him. Again why do we love him? Go to the cross! <---- it's always the cross!
I have days when I get super busy and skip prayer & bible time and I can tell you that I begin to drag. It starts a downward spiral and I'm wide open for the lies of satan. So, what I try to do is go to the foot of that cross often and remember who I serve and why I love Him.
I think that may help you as well. Remembering what He did for us is something he asked us to do right? Do this in memory of me? communion? Remember what he suffered for you.. You can remember even without the bread and wine ritual too. Just keep your eyes on Him. He is the author and finisher of our faith.. Keep your eyes fixed on Him.
Go to the cross and stay til you weep. Pray and listen. You wont always hear God speak to you, but I do believe that you will see Him in your life in a way that is unmistakable. it's kind of like he rewards us for seeking! Ex. I will have a specific question on my mind and pray about it and later that day or the next that particular Q is answered. I listen to a radio station that plays Christian music most of the time with with some teachings, and I cant tell you how many times what I have asked God is answered by one of those men. It's crazy because the majority of the time the station is music with only a few teachers briefly.
One day I had been going through a lot of pain and tumultuous stuff and I thought maybe I was being refined but I also wondered if I was losing my marbles.. I was out in my garden, and it was spring and I was pulling the dead sticks and leaves out of a plant and fluffing the new growth- when I heard this.." That is what i am doing to you".----- not audible of course, but I heard it loud and clear. I was stunned at first, but I knew deep inside of me that what I heard was true. That IS what He had been doing in me, for me. I had been seeing my sins (sins of thought) and being convicted and I was growing. Wow.. is all I thought. He makes us new. We are born anew.. mind blowing.

As we go thru time with the Lord He is perfecting us in love. 1 John 4:18 where there is no fear of punishment. As we remain in His love it cast outs all fear. So remain in His love- if you have to go to the cross like I do for a wake up reminder- do it! The things that worried me prior are gone. The worldly news doesn't matter- the cranky man next door is now not such a jerk, but a lost soul who needs Christ's love too. Maybe he will see Christ in my love or my confession someday? Maybe I will just plant a seed so that someone else can water?
Pray, study. ask, trust, and most of all rejoice in the Lord always!! Again I say rejoice!!

Believing is completely trusting in the Lord Jesus- a life long commitment - a deep love. A marriage of sorts. He is the our Lord of our lives. We belong to Him now and not ourselves. It's a lot to swallow, but it's all good. Trust Him. His blood saves you. iI hope something here helps you my friend. I am sure you already know most of what I wrote but a refresher is always good too. In this world we have tribulation but take heart. One day It will all be gone. There is much more I could say to you but this has run long. Sorry.
I wish you much peace as the Lord does too.

A good testimonial.

 

[GracePeace]

Hi GP,
I read much of this thread, but not all of it so please excuse me if what I'm about to say has already been said, ok?
I was raised in a religion that does not teach that Jesus died for our sins. They were far removed from Jesus and taught that He only died for Adam's sin. Therefore, I had no relationship with Christ or understanding of what He accomplished at Calvary .It's a dark place to be.. (JW's)

When I finally did learn that Jesus died for MY sins and yours through the scriptures-I was astonished and could hardly grasp that kind of love. I felt that I didn't deserve it. Ha and i don't! I felt that I needed to do something to repay Him for it. I wasn't sure what to do. I could not join a church because I was still battling teachings that churches were all evil..

Fast forwarding.. I eventually came to the foot of His cross. I saw Him enduring horrendous torture for me- my sins. I had many. I saw the blood dripping from his crown of thorns. I saw the nails in his hands and his feet and the blood gushing. i realized that I put Him there. I saw His eyes full of love and meekness. My heart broke. I thought of my sins individually and saw just how horrible and hopeless I was. I sat and wept at His feet and no matter how hard I tried to say something worthwhile all that i could manage to utter was, "thank you Lord" I was in awe of this kind of love. I was an insignificant flea full of sins. Yet. He did that for me? And He did! There are no words. As the song goes " I can scarcely take it in". Oh wow, now that song even made sense to me.
It's been a long battle for me but I can tell you this- that day can never be replayed, but I absolutely have to sit at the foot of His cross daily to remember His love. Sometimes more than once a day. For me it's key.
His love is what saves us. His Love is everything-

We love Him because he first loved us. That IS why I love Him. I can't love someone that I am commanded to love. I love Him because He loved me enough to die for my sick sin filled life. He cared. I don't know why but He did. God is love..? Yes, that's why.

Ok having said all of that- when we believe in Him, it's not just a mental acknowledgement.. or it shouldn't be. It's a life changing moment of staring straight at what real love is. If that doesn't provoke us to want to obey Him then I can't imagine what would. To love man more so that you would be afraid to confess Jesus was showing their hearts. Do they love him or do they love man more? Do you see what I'm trying to say? The "works" of confessing Him is merely obedience flowing from faith working through love. Love for Christ. It's our love for Him that causes us to want to do what is pleasing to Him. Who knows that when we confess him who will hear and believe? It's our faith in Him working. True Faith works. Those works can't ever save us. Jesus does! Our faith doesn't remain alone- it reveals itself thru love.
Remember that Abraham believed God and was declared righteous. It was many years later when Abraham had Isaac and took him to the mountain. It was a test of His faith.

I can tell you that pretty much everyday- I battle. The enemy tells me I am not saved. I don't belong to Jesus etc etc all day long. I went through a time of misunderstanding grace and works and thought I had to do works to be saved. Cart meet horse!! We cant do the works until we are saved. ONLY when we abide in His love can we bear fruit.
Jesus said " Why do you call me Lord and don't do the things that I say?" bingo. We obey him because we love him. Again why do we love him? Go to the cross! <---- it's always the cross!
I have days when I get super busy and skip prayer & bible time and I can tell you that I begin to drag. It starts a downward spiral and I'm wide open for the lies of satan. So, what I try to do is go to the foot of that cross often and remember who I serve and why I love Him.
I think that may help you as well. Remembering what He did for us is something he asked us to do right? Do this in memory of me? communion? Remember what he suffered for you.. You can remember even without the bread and wine ritual too. Just keep your eyes on Him. He is the author and finisher of our faith.. Keep your eyes fixed on Him.
Go to the cross and stay til you weep. Pray and listen. You wont always hear God speak to you, but I do believe that you will see Him in your life in a way that is unmistakable. it's kind of like he rewards us for seeking! Ex. I will have a specific question on my mind and pray about it and later that day or the next that particular Q is answered. I listen to a radio station that plays Christian music most of the time with with some teachings, and I cant tell you how many times what I have asked God is answered by one of those men. It's crazy because the majority of the time the station is music with only a few teachers briefly.
One day I had been going through a lot of pain and tumultuous stuff and I thought maybe I was being refined but I also wondered if I was losing my marbles.. I was out in my garden, and it was spring and I was pulling the dead sticks and leaves out of a plant and fluffing the new growth- when I heard this.." That is what i am doing to you".----- not audible of course, but I heard it loud and clear. I was stunned at first, but I knew deep inside of me that what I heard was true. That IS what He had been doing in me, for me. I had been seeing my sins (sins of thought) and being convicted and I was growing. Wow.. is all I thought. He makes us new. We are born anew.. mind blowing.

As we go thru time with the Lord He is perfecting us in love. 1 John 4:18 where there is no fear of punishment. As we remain in His love it cast outs all fear. So remain in His love- if you have to go to the cross like I do for a wake up reminder- do it! The things that worried me prior are gone. The worldly news doesn't matter- the cranky man next door is now not such a jerk, but a lost soul who needs Christ's love too. Maybe he will see Christ in my love or my confession someday? Maybe I will just plant a seed so that someone else can water?
Pray, study. ask, trust, and most of all rejoice in the Lord always!! Again I say rejoice!!

Believing is completely trusting in the Lord Jesus- a life long commitment - a deep love. A marriage of sorts. He is the our Lord of our lives. We belong to Him now and not ourselves. It's a lot to swallow, but it's all good. Trust Him. His blood saves you. iI hope something here helps you my friend. I am sure you already know most of what I wrote but a refresher is always good too. In this world we have tribulation but take heart. One day It will all be gone. There is much more I could say to you but this has run long. Sorry.
I wish you much peace as the Lord does too.

Thanks for taking your time, but I can't agree with the idea that "true faith invariably works", bc John's Gospel says that many of the leaders believed, but they would not confess Him.

You may be hitting upon something that has some angle of truth to it, but, strictly speaking, it is not true.

As far as "those who fear are not perfected in love", it wouldn't have helped me, since "the one who keeps His commands is perfected in His love", so that could be read as "of course you won't be afraid if you do what He says, but you will abide in His love, as He says in John 15".

Anyway, today I learned that I should not let my heart be troubled, but be at peace.

 

[GracePeace]

Carefully re-read post 414.

Part of the style of the time period was to write verses that seem to be absolutes. Because of that they seem to contradict but it was just their style. So considering what it is not is important to put them in perspective. And we can find this throughout the New Testament. The “you must be perfect” topic is an example of this. Because the style was writing some scriptures as absolutes is one of the reasons that people can give seeming contradictive scriptures to each other when they debate on this forum.

How is it a gift when you're working for it your whole life? Working for it? Is wrong thinking….don’t get hung up on the word work….it is one of the big misconception in Christianity. Works does not mean being moral is works….Works generally only pertains to the Mosaic Law. So then, my beloved, just as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your salvation with fear and trembling; Philippians 2:12

The Christian life is a journey. We go through the process of salvation….Acts 2:38 and the Bread and Wine Ritual and then we start the journey of living your life as a Christian. None of this is works. Salvation changes you, if it does not, you are not saved. Once Saved Always Saved is one of the biggest lies in Christianity. Salvation is not a license to sin.

As previously stated, there is no answer in #414 (in fact, you've admitted you do not see a need to reconcile the two ideas), and, as stated, I've already made many posts where all the Scriptures were taken into consideration, and I have spent decades studying the entirety of the Scriptures, so, again, only for this thread I've stuck to John alone.