Did they really "WORSHIPPED" Jesus?

[ElieG12]

Some examples of the use of the same word translated "worship" (all the time) by some translators:

The astrologers who came from the east (Matt. 2:2,11);
Peter and the others in the boat when Jesus calms the waves and the wind and walks on the sea (Matt. 14:33);
the two women when he appears to them resurrected (Matt. 28:9);
the apostles on the mountain in Galilee where they see him resurrected (Matt. 28:17);
the apostles before Jesus ascends to heaven (Luke 24:52);
the man born blind whom Jesus healed (John 9:38)?

The Greek word used in all these cases is προσκυνέω. Does that word really mean "worship" like in worshiping God?

What do we learn if we study the general use of that same word in Scripture, when it is used in regard to other people and not Jesus? Let's start with this interesting case; Jesus sent this message to the Christians in Philadelphia:

Rev. 3:9 Look! I will make those from the synagogue of Satan who say they are Jews yet are not, but are lying—look! I will make them come and bow before your feet and make them know that I have loved you.

The word bow there is the same Greek word translated "worship" when talking about Jesus. If the Greek verb προσκυνέω means "to worship", then why is not translated like that here, in any version or translation of the Bible?

 

[ElieG12]

Early Christians read and quoted continually from the Greek version of the OT that existed in their time. The same word is used a lot in the LXX, and here I will cite some of those examples:

1) Abraham bows down and makes a προσκυνέω before three angels, although he only considers one of them to be Jehovah (Gen. 18:2)

2) Lot bows down before two of the same angels making a προσκυνέω, although the main one named as Jehovah was not present (Gen. 19:1)

3) Abraham makes a προσκυνέω before the Hittites (Canaanites) as owners of the land he wanted to buy as a burial place for Sarah (Gen. 23:4-20)

4) Isaac blesses Jacob to receive a προσκυνέω from his brothers (Gen. 27:26-29)

5) Joseph dreams that his brothers make a προσκυνέω before him (Gen. 37:7,9)

6) Moses tells Pharaoh that his servants and counselors would come before him making a προσκυνέω to him, begging (Ex. 11:8)

7)The prophet Nathan renders προσκυνέω before King David (1 King. 1:23,24)

8) Solomon renders προσκυνέω before his mother Batsheba (1 King. 2:19)

9) Moses renders προσκυνέω before his father-in-law Jethro (Ex. 18:7)

10) Jacob renders προσκυνέω to Esau (Gen.33:3-7)

11) Rut renders προσκυνέω before Boaz (Ruth 2:10)

12) David before Saul, renders προσκυνέω (1Sam. 24:9)

13) David renders προσκυνέω before Jonathan his friend (1 Sam. 20:41)

14)The sons of the prophets before Elisha, render προσκυνέω (2Kings 2:15)

15)The Shunammite woman renders προσκυνέω before Elisha (2Kings 4:37)

So, what the facts show? Did the Christian writers of the NT believe that the Greek word προσκυνέω meant "to worship" in the sacred sense? The answer is clearly: NO.

Then, when Christians used that word in the passages I quoted in post#1, they didn't mean that those followers of Jesus were "worshiping" him as God, like no one did that in that sense in the OT, as presented to us in the LXX, a version of the OT that they read and quoted when preaching and teaching from the Scriptures.

PS: Those instances of the use of the Greek word προσκυνέω in the Greek version of the OT (the LXX) are just a few of them.

 

[Scott Downey]

Another distortion of the scriptures.

Did the angels worship Christ, yes or no?


If so, go and do likewise.
Hebrews 1:6
But when He again brings the firstborn into the world, He says: “Let all the angels of God worship Him.”

The word Worship in greek and all the verses found

G4352 - proskyneō - Strong's Greek Lexicon (nkjv)

G4352 - προσκυνέω proskynéō, pros-koo-neh'-o; from and a probable derivative of (meaning to kiss, like a dog licking his master's hand); to fawn or crouch to, i.e. (literally or figuratively) prostrate oneself in homage (do reverence to, adore):—worship.

www.blueletterbible.org

 

[Scott Downey]

Lexicon :: Strong's G4352 - proskyneō​

προσκυνέω​

Transliteration
proskyneō (Key)
Pronunciation
pros-koo-neh'-o

Part of Speech
verb
Root Word (Etymology)
From πρός (G4314) and a probable derivative of κύων (G2965) (meaning to kiss, like a dog licking his master's hand)
Greek Inflections of προσκυνέω [?]
mGNT
60x in 24 unique form(s) TR
60x in 25 unique form(s) LXX
179x in 33 unique form(s)
προσεκύνει — 4x
προσεκύνησαν — 12x
προσεκύνησεν — 4x
προσεκύνουν — 1x
προσκυνεῖ — 1x
προσκυνεῖν — 3x
προσκυνεῖτε — 1x
προσκυνῆσαι — 3x
προσκυνήσαντες — 1x
προσκυνήσατε — 1x
προσκυνησάτωσαν — 1x
προσκυνήσει — 1x
προσκυνήσεις — 2x
προσκυνήσετε — 1x
προσκυνήσῃς — 2x
προσκύνησον — 2x
προσκυνήσουσιν — 3x
προσκυνήσω — 1x
προσκυνήσων — 2x
προσκυνήσωσιν — 5x
προσκυνοῦμεν — 1x
προσκυνοῦντας — 5x
προσκυνοῦντες — 1x
προσκυνοῦσα — 1x
προσκυνοῦσιν — 1x
Dictionary Aids
Vine's Expository Dictionary: View Entry
TDNT Reference: 6:758,948
KJV Translation Count — Total: 60x
The KJV translates Strong's G4352 in the following manner: worship (60x).

 

[ElieG12]

Another distortion of the scriptures.

This is another attack of your part. I will mark all of them to you, so you see the facts and what is a distortion of the facts.

Did the angels worship Christ, yes or no?

The book of Revelation shows how heavenly creatures paid homage to Jesus in heavens, but most importantly is the WHY they do that:

Rev. 5:9 And they sing a new song, saying: “You are worthy to take the scroll and open its seals, for you were slaughtered and with your blood you bought people for God out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation, 10 and you made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God, and they are to rule as kings over the earth.”

That being said, we need to understand the difference of what kind of worship do heavenly creatures give to the One sitted on the throne and why that is very different:

Rev. 4:9 Whenever the living creatures give glory and honor and thanksgiving to the One seated on the throne, the One who lives forever and ever, 10 the 24 elders fall down before the One seated on the throne and worship the One who lives forever and ever, and they cast their crowns before the throne, saying: 11 “You are worthy, Jehovah our God, to receive the glory and the honor and the power, because you created all things, and because of your will they came into existence and were created.”

We must not mistake what heavenly creatures paid to God and what they paid to Jesus.

Evidently, if the Scriptures say:

Heb. 1:6 But when he again brings his Firstborn into the inhabited earth, he says: “And let all of God’s angels do obeisance to him.”

... is because that wasn't done before. That is not possible to say about God himself, the One that have always been worshiped in the Universe, since he is the heavenly Father and Creator. About Jesus, the Scriptures say:

Heb. 1:3 (...) after he had made a purification for our sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high. 4 So he has become better than the angels to the extent that he has inherited a name more excellent than theirs.

There is a saying that goes, "Clear accounts preserve friendships." Be clear about the differences between Jesus, the Lamb of God, and God, the One who sits on the throne as the Majesty of the Universe.

 

[Scott Downey]

This is another attack of your part. I will mark all of them to you, so you see the facts and what is a distortion of the facts.

The book of Revelation shows how heavenly creatures paid homage to Jesus in heavens, but most importantly is the WHY they do that:

Rev. 5:9 And they sing a new song, saying: “You are worthy to take the scroll and open its seals, for you were slaughtered and with your blood you bought people for God out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation, 10 and you made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God, and they are to rule as kings over the earth.”

That being said, we need to understand the difference of what kind of worship do heavenly creatures give to the One sitted on the throne and why that is very different:

Rev. 4:9 Whenever the living creatures give glory and honor and thanksgiving to the One seated on the throne, the One who lives forever and ever, 10 the 24 elders fall down before the One seated on the throne and worship the One who lives forever and ever, and they cast their crowns before the throne, saying: 11 “You are worthy, Jehovah our God, to receive the glory and the honor and the power, because you created all things, and because of your will they came into existence and were created.”

We must not mistake what heavenly creatures paid to God and what they paid to Jesus.

Evidently, if the Scriptures say:

Heb. 1:6 But when he again brings his Firstborn into the inhabited earth, he says: “And let all of God’s angels do obeisance to him.”

... is because that wasn't done before. That is not possible to say about God himself, the One that have always been worshiped in the Universe, since he is the heavenly Father and Creator. About Jesus, the Scriptures say:

Heb. 1:3 (...) after he had made a purification for our sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high. 4 So he has become better than the angels to the extent that he has inherited a name more excellent than theirs.

There is a saying that goes, "Clear accounts preserve friendships." Be clear about the differences between Jesus, the Lamb of God, and God, the One who sits on the throne as the Majesty of the Universe.

Sorry but your theology is very mixed up, mishmash of this that and the other.
Will it blend?

 

[ElieG12]

Sorry but your theology is very mixed up, mishmash of this that and the other.
Will it blend?

Another attack on your part.

I am quoting the Scriptures and helping others to reason based on them.
You seem to be having fun with issues that you should take more seriously.

Did you know that if you do not have an accurate idea of who God is and who Jesus is, the one He sent, people cannot obtain salvation?

John 17:3 This means everlasting life, their coming to know you, the only true God, and the one whom you sent, Jesus Christ.

 

[Scott Downey]

Another attack on your part.

I am quoting the Scriptures and helping others to reason based on them.
You seem to be having fun with issues that you should take more seriously.

Did you know that if you do not have an accurate idea of who God is and who Jesus is, his messenger, people cannot obtain salvation?

John 17:3 This means everlasting life, their coming to know you, the only true God, and the one whom you sent, Jesus Christ.

You are not helping anyone

 

[ElieG12]

You are not helping anyone

Have a very wonderful day :)

 

[ElieG12]

The difference between Jesus (the Messiah, the Christ, the Son of God), and Jehovah, the God of the first Christian-Jews, was clear to the early Christians:

1) Jesus was anointed by Jehovah (Is. 61:1,2; Acts 4:27)
2) Jesus was the prophet "Moses-like" that Jehovah had promised (Dt. 18:15-18; Acts 3:22-26)
3) Jehovah sat Jesus Christ at His right hand when He raised him (Psal. 110:1,2; Eph. 1:17-23)
4) Jehovah chose Jesus as High Priest in the manner of Melchizedek (Psal. 110:4; Hebrews 5:6,10)
5) Jesus is Jehovah's heir (Psal. 2:8; Hebrews 1:2)
6) Jehovah stated Jesus Christ is His Son (Psal. 2:7; Hebrews 5:5).

If it was about worshiping God, which God would they be worshiping? Paul answered that here:

Rom. 3:29 Or is he [, Jehovah,] the God of the Jews only? Is he not also the God of people of the nations?
Yes, also of people of the nations. 30 Since God is one,
he will declare circumcised people righteous as a result of faith and uncircumcised people righteous by means of their faith.