Did Jesus say that adultery is grounds for divorce? - Nope.

[Lambano]

Why are you accusing me of being a pharisee?

That's gotta be a first....

 

[St. SteVen]

That's gotta be a first....

Indeed.
When you pin these folks down, they snarl and snap like cornered animals. (tooth and claw)
But that's not a first. - LOL

[

 

[Lambano]

Indeed.
When you pin these folks down, they snarl and snap like cornered animals. (tooth and claw)
But that's not a first. - LOL

[

It's just the irony - for two years, you've been a heretic. Now you're a legalist?

 

[St. SteVen]

It's just the irony - for two years, you've been a heretic. Now you're a legalist?

Right.
Calling me a heretic is like a badge of honor.
But a Pharisee... them's fightin' words. - LOL

[

 

[Fred J]

Certainly not a support for Jesus allowing for divorce in the case of adultery.
God HATES divorce. Right? Why would Jesus allow it?

This shows in the New Testament there's is also graceful 'moral' and 'immoral' justice.

Therefore, either on the ground of 'fornication' or 'adultery', divorce is allowed, rather than stoning to death the 'guilty'.

This is based on the husband or men are 'innocent' and 'faithful in marriage', yet such a thing happened to them.

To men who are 'guilty' as well, will themselves undergo punishment for sin, curse and death directly from GOD.

'Guilty' women's punishment are not allowed to 'remarry', rather than do and fall under the ground of 'adultery' with her new man.

There's no such thing as one is punished while the other go scot free, 'guilty' will reap what they sow or harvest what they plant.

Jesus is very clear to men and women, your sins are forgiven, sin no more, and concluded, or something worse shall happen to you.

Even to the men who dragged the adulteress woman to test the verdict of Jesus, only the one without sin are eligible to cast the first stone.

As a believer if am to cast the first stone even 'verbally' on others, am to examine myself first should be without sin.

Shalom in the name of Jesus Christ

 

[St. SteVen]

This shows in the New Testament there's is also graceful 'moral' and 'immoral' justice.

Therefore, either on the ground of 'fornication' or 'adultery', divorce is allowed, rather than stoning to death the 'guilty'.

You continue to make this supposed biblical claim with no biblical support.
I need you to be the Pharisee here. (prove it)

[

 

[Fred J]

You continue to make this supposed biblical claim with no biblical support.
I need you to be the Pharisee here. (prove it)

[

You want to go down that road of a Pharisee think you're better than others, don't want to burst your bubbles.

You may run with what you believe in, no thank you.

 

[St. SteVen]

As a believer if am to cast the first stone even 'verbally' on others, am to examine myself first should be without sin.

Would calling someone a Pharisee be a first stone?

[

 

[Lambano]

 

[Fred J]

Would calling someone a Pharisee be a first stone?

[

Readers, how about calling another a 'parrot'?

One is only 'ranting' based on 'conviction'.

Where who claim to be a 'saint', one's fruit of the 'Spirit'?

Shalom in the name of Jesus Christ

 

[ScottA]

@St. SteVen
@Aunty Jane

Addressing some of the original posts:

This topic certainly makes for good word study, and the defining of original language, etc. However, to avoid the common pitfalls of language confused by God, it is more important to consider what the words represent.

In other words, the relationships between men and women are merely examples or images given in the parable of our creation--which only come to their full meaning when the man is Christ, and the women is His bride.

Which offences (by example) then are against that greater relationship?

 

[Grailhunter]

This shows in the New Testament there's is also graceful 'moral' and 'immoral' justice.

Therefore, either on the ground of 'fornication' or 'adultery', divorce is allowed, rather than stoning to death the 'guilty'.

This is based on the husband or men are 'innocent' and 'faithful in marriage', yet such a thing happened to them.

To men who are 'guilty' as well, will themselves undergo punishment for sin, curse and death directly from GOD.

'Guilty' women's punishment are not allowed to 'remarry', rather than do and fall under the ground of 'adultery' with her new man.

There's no such thing as one is punished while the other go scot free, 'guilty' will reap what they sow or harvest what they plant.

Jesus is very clear to men and women, your sins are forgiven, sin no more, and concluded, or something worse shall happen to you.

Even to the men who dragged the adulteress woman to test the verdict of Jesus, only the one without sin are eligible to cast the first stone.

As a believer if am to cast the first stone even 'verbally' on others, am to examine myself first should be without sin.

Shalom in the name of Jesus Christ

You have some holes in your statements.

But I say to you that everyone who divorces his wife, except on the ground of sexual immorality, makes her commit adultery, and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery. Matthew 5:32

And I say to you: whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another, commits adultery.” Matthew 19:9

These are probably some the most misunderstood verses in the Bible. Christian beliefs have been built on this discussion about divorce and they should not have been….because….. Christ was talking to Jews. And we do not know how many wives the Jews had. So not being able to marry again did not mean they did not have a wife or wives.

Christianity did not adopt the process of a Letter of Divorcement.

At this point in time women were the propterty of their fathers and then their husbands.

Sexual immorality would include adultery….adultery during this period was not only a sin but a property crime….punishable by death or divorce. The Mosaic Law did not allow for forgiveness. The wormb was for one man and his heirs.

You said----To men who are 'guilty' as well, will themselves undergo punishment for sin, curse and death directly from GOD. The Mosaic Law does not address unfaithful men unless they were unfaithful with another man's wife. For one they could have multiple wives….The scriptures never puts an end to polygamy or concubinage.

Even His disciple objected to what Yeshua said about divorce.

The process of divorce is a Jewish process that does not appear outside of the Gospels….Jewish-Christians only.

For the Gentile-Christians the word divorce does not occur after the Gospels….This is what the Apostle Paul said about separation…

For a married woman is bound by law to her husband while he lives, but if her husband dies she is released from the law of marriage. Accordingly, she will be called an adulteress if she lives with another man while her husband is alive. But if her husband dies, she is free from that law, and if she marries another man she is not an adulteress. Romans 7:2-3

To the married I give this charge (not I, but the Lord): the wife should not separate from her husband (but if she does, she should remain unmarried or else be reconciled to her husband), and the husband should not divorce his wife. 1st Corinthians 7:10-11 The word divorce does not appear in the scriptures….the word means---send away or put away.

No biblical death sentence for a Christian woman that commits adultery, but as history goes on a few were burnt at the stake for adultery.

 

[Aunty Jane]

The cloth is presented to prove her virginity. That there was no fornication prior to marriage.

This is an important point….virginity had to be provable, or else she could be accused of not being a virgin for her husband, which was an expectation.….and part of God’s law.

Betrothal was the precursor to marriage, like an engagement, a betrothal was a commitment to marriage that required a divorce, as in the case of Mary and Joseph. When found to be “with child” before they were married, Joseph was going “to divorce her secretly” to preserve her dignity. (Matt 1:18-20)

There was no marriage “ceremony” as such, because friends and neighbors who knew of the betrothal, were in expectation of the day when when the groom would go to the home of his future wife to take her to a new home that he had prepared for her. Depending on the circumstance of the groom, that might have been a new room attached to his parents home, or a new dwelling altogether. The wealthy would have a marriage feast, one at which Jesus performed his first miracle, turning water into wine.

These neighbors and friend would line the route and give the couple their best wishes for a happy marriage, with the bride adorned for her husband as was the custom.

All God requires is that the marriage be legally recognized as it was in Israel, so that his laws could be enacted….and sex before marriage, was punished.

Deuteronomy 22: 13-30 is a comprehensive list of things pertaining to virginity and marriage.

 

[St. SteVen]

This topic certainly makes for good word study, and the defining of original language, etc. However, to avoid the common pitfalls of language confused by God, it is more important to consider what the words represent.

In other words, the relationships between men and women are merely examples or images given in the parable of our creation--which only come to their full meaning when the man is Christ, and the women is His bride.

Which offences (by example) then are against that greater relationship?

Yes.
Fidelity in marriage is a picture of our relationship with God.
Israel was an adulterous nation when they ran after other gods.

[

 

[Fred J]

You have some holes in your statements.

But I say to you that everyone who divorces his wife, except on the ground of sexual immorality, makes her commit adultery, and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery. Matthew 5:32

When a man divorces his wife without any cause, and she's been faithful in their marriage, without committing any sexual immorality.

And, he marry another, probably young or for any other reasons, makes his former wife commit adultery.

Due to unfairness and her dissatisfaction over her husband, she might marry another man, and that makes her commit adultery.

Hence the context is, the man who marries her, himself also commits adultery on the other hand.

The wife can be a newly wed or been wed for some time, but somehow the husband seem to be not happy with her.

This is probably due to arrange marriage or been caught fornicating together and forced marriage, or many other reasons while living together.

Jesus permits divorce only on the ground of sexual immorality, probably a newly wed wife been found not virgin, have committed fornication before marriage.

Or in other case, during one husband's absence, the wife committed sexual immorality with another man committing adultery.

And I say to you: whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another, commits adultery.” Matthew 19:9

Now this goes out to that husband who divorces his wife without a cause, even not on the ground sexual immorality.

And proceeds to marry another freely, henceforth himself commits adultery as well.

These are probably some the most misunderstood verses in the Bible. Christian beliefs have been built on this discussion about divorce and they should not have been….because….. Christ was talking to Jews. And we do not know how many wives the Jews had. So not being able to marry again did not mean they did not have a wife or wives.

Christ came to the Jews first and addressed to them first, and His disciples were in discipleship to these all of the Kingdom of GOD.

And before Christ's ascension, He commissioned them disciples to likewise make disciple of all nation, kindred and tongue.

All nation consisting of scattered Jews and Gentiles, and for the record, Gentile men too divorce and marry many wives without a cause.

At this point in time women were the propterty of their fathers and then their husbands.

Women were under the guardian of the leaders, women folks, family and husbands

Sexual immorality would include adultery….adultery during this period was not only a sin but a property crime….punishable by death or divorce. The Mosaic Law did not allow for forgiveness. The wormb was for one man and his heirs.

Also fornication is sexual immorality.

Mosaic Law is GOD's justice in the Old Testament, so is dealt with then and there, so that the community and the land will not be defiled.

You said----To men who are 'guilty' as well, will themselves undergo punishment for sin, curse and death directly from GOD. The Mosaic Law does not address unfaithful men unless they were unfaithful with another man's wife. For one they could have multiple wives….The scriptures never puts an end to polygamy or concubinage.

The Law is Spiritual, and GOD have directly dealt with Israelite men in the Old.

For one, king David and many more, also the Hebrews committed sexual immorality during Moses absence with GOD on Mont Sinai.

Even His disciple objected to what Yeshua said about divorce.

The legislation is strict and not easy to swallow, but Jesus said that's what GOD intended from the beginning.

The process of divorce is a Jewish process that does not appear outside of the Gospels….Jewish-Christians only.

For the Gentile-Christians the word divorce does not occur after the Gospels….This is what the Apostle Paul said about separation…

For a married woman is bound by law to her husband while he lives, but if her husband dies she is released from the law of marriage. Accordingly, she will be called an adulteress if she lives with another man while her husband is alive. But if her husband dies, she is free from that law, and if she marries another man she is not an adulteress. Romans 7:2-3

Adultery is mentioned in the Roman Gentile Church as well, as how Jesus dealt with the Jews first.

To the married I give this charge (not I, but the Lord): the wife should not separate from her husband (but if she does, she should remain unmarried or else be reconciled to her husband), and the husband should not divorce his wife. 1st Corinthians 7:10-11 The word divorce does not appear in the scriptures….the word means---send away or put away.

It is the same but in other words, send away is she's going back to her family, and put away is she's no longer wanted.

No biblical death sentence for a Christian woman that commits adultery, but as history goes on a few were burnt at the stake for adultery.

Jesus is the Master of the Gospel, and the thirteen are 'vessels' or 'instruments' of His, who added furthermore according to the wisdom given to them.

When the Master permits divorce only on the grounds of sexual immorality, fornication or adultery in the Gospel, who are we?

But rather He prefers, if couples are able to reconcile and carry on their marriage without divorce, would be a plus point.

Isn't that love the greatest compared to faith and hope?

Shalom in the name of Jesus Christ

 

[Grailhunter]

When a man divorces his wife without any cause, and she's been faithful in their marriage, without committing any sexual immorality.

And, he marry another, probably young or for any other reasons, makes his former wife commit adultery.

Due to unfairness and her dissatisfaction over her husband, she might marry another man, and that makes her commit adultery.

Hence the context is, the man who marries her, himself also commits adultery on the other hand.

The wife can be a newly wed or been wed for some time, but somehow the husband seem to be not happy with her.

This is probably due to arrange marriage or been caught fornicating together and forced marriage, or many other reasons while living together.

Jesus permits divorce only on the ground of sexual immorality, probably a newly wed wife been found not virgin, have committed fornication before marriage.

Or in other case, during one husband's absence, the wife committed sexual immorality with another man committing adultery.

Now this goes out to that husband who divorces his wife without a cause, even not on the ground sexual immorality.

And proceeds to marry another freely, henceforth himself commits adultery as well.

Christ came to the Jews first and addressed to them first, and His disciples were in discipleship to these all of the Kingdom of GOD.

And before Christ's ascension, He commissioned them disciples to likewise make disciple of all nation, kindred and tongue.

All nation consisting of scattered Jews and Gentiles, and for the record, Gentile men too divorce and marry many wives without a cause.

Women were under the guardian of the leaders, women folks, family and husbands

Also fornication is sexual immorality.

Mosaic Law is GOD's justice in the Old Testament, so is dealt with then and there, so that the community and the land will not be defiled.

The Law is Spiritual, and GOD have directly dealt with Israelite men in the Old.

For one, king David and many more, also the Hebrews committed sexual immorality during Moses absence with GOD on Mont Sinai.

The legislation is strict and not easy to swallow, but Jesus said that's what GOD intended from the beginning.

Adultery is mentioned in the Roman Gentile Church as well, as how Jesus dealt with the Jews first.

It is the same but in other words, send away is she's going back to her family, and put away is she's no longer wanted.

Jesus is the Master of the Gospel, and the thirteen are 'vessels' or 'instruments' of His, who added furthermore according to the wisdom given to them.

When the Master permits divorce only on the grounds of sexual immorality, fornication or adultery in the Gospel, who are we?

But rather He prefers, if couples are able to reconcile and carry on their marriage without divorce, would be a plus point.

Isn't that love the greatest compared to faith and hope?

Shalom in the name of Jesus Christ

Give me a little more to understand your point.

Fornication is not a biblical word and can be very misleading. That is why whether you are teaching or learning it is best to know and use the words that are actually in the Bible. But even that can be difficult.....the resource material can be just as misleading because a lot of it has a direct connection to the King James Version of the Bible and so inherits all of its errors. It all depends on how serious you are about teaching the truth or knowing the truth.

 

[PS95]

The position of the church and society at large is mistaken as to what Jesus was quoted as saying in the gospels. IMHO
Let's discuss.

Questions:
1) What did Jesus actually say?
2) Why did he say it?
3) If we got this wrong, where do we go from here?

The position of the church and society at large is that adultery (sexual immorality) is grounds for divorce.
And they will quote Jesus as an authority on this. But is Jesus being misquoted? Yes, I believe so.
The biggest problem is the disconnect we have with the culture that Jesus was speaking to.

The church teaches that the only grounds for divorce is adultery. (sexual immorality)
But that is not what Jesus actually said.

The basis for this teaching is found in Matthew 19:9
See the NIV translation below, taking note of verse 10 as well as verse 9. (at the very bottom of this post)
Then compare the KJV below that. Note the use of the word "fornication" which matches the NT Greek.

This makes a HUGE difference, especially when considering the cultural setting of the Israelites under the law.
Jesus was saying that the only grounds for divorce is fornication, which is sexual intercourse before marriage. (not after)
What does this mean? Both in the historical context and to the misinterpretation assigned by the church today. ???

For the Israelites, a bride's parents presented her as a virgin to her husband-to-be. The law of Moses made a provision for this.
If the husband-to-be discovered that he had been given a bride that was not a virgin, he could divorce her. (for fornication)
Unfortunately, some new husbands were making false claims in order to divorce their new brides. The fornication loophole.
Parents were allowed to challenge this claim if it was false. See Deuteronomy 22:16-18

Therefore, the KJV translation is correct and the church got it wrong.
Jesus said there is no grounds for divorce except for fornication. Now read verse 10 again.
Better not to marry? Indeed. Not if you have ANY plans to divorce.

Matthew 19:8-10 NIV
Jesus replied, “Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard. But it was not this way from the beginning.
9 I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery.”
10 The disciples said to him, “If this is the situation between a husband and wife, it is better not to marry.”

--- COMPARE ---

Matthew 19:8-10 KJV
He saith unto them, Moses because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives:
but from the beginning it was not so.
9 And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication,
and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery.
10 His disciples say unto him, If the case of the man be so with his wife, it is not good to marry.

/

No, This is incorrect. The word used in Matt 19:9 is porneia in the Greek.
It includes sexual immorality, fornication, marital unfaithfulness, prostitution, adultery, a generic term for sexual sin of any kind.

 

[Fred J]

Give me a little more to understand your point.

Fornication is not a biblical word and can be very misleading. That is why whether you are teaching or learning it is best to know and use the words that are actually in the Bible. But even that can be difficult.....the resource material can be just as misleading because a lot of it has a direct connection to the King James Version of the Bible and so inherits all of its errors. It all depends on how serious you are about teaching the truth or knowing the truth.

Let's stick to 'sexual immorality', and the opposite 'sexual morality', according to the kingdom of GOD.

From the beginning 'sexual morality' in between a virgin man and a virgin women, and for life.

And, 'sexual immorality' is between those who change partners from one person to another, and probably stick to one for life.

Jesus allow divorce based on those who are innocent and kept themselves pure to be wed and faithful to one partner in marriage.

When one innocent have been 'tricked' into marriage with the partner already had a relationship before.

Or one innocent have been 'tricked' by one's spouse having relationship while they've been married.

As to the one that is innocent, either one's partner have committed 'fornication', had consensual sex with another before marriage.

Or either one's partner have committed adultery, had consensual sex with another while been married.

Shalom in the name of Jesus Christ

 

[Fred J]

Without the Gospel, whether the Jews had the Law or the Gentiles without, but by their conscience do the things pertaining to the law.

Yet both have sinned and fallen short of GOD's Glory.

Since they've repented and been born again of water and the Holy Ghost, they've become equally new virgin brides of the Kingdom of GOD.

Because of Christ's teaching there're disciple in henceforth, and are doers and abiders unto wise builders, know the best.

They are to be married now to one partner and for life, unless one's partner life have ended sooner than the other.

Men are allowed to remarry or stay single and serve the Lord for life.

Young widows are best suggested to remarry since they've a tendency to go from house to house and gossip.

Elderly widows are suggested to stay single and serve the Lord, at the same time teach and bring up the young women in the society.

Apart from these of the Lord, are of the unbelievers, as history tends to repeat itself and now with a modern twist.

This only causes the society to be defiled and the land to be unclean, even to the whole world dilemma and climate change.

That's why the Gospel is preached to the ungodly and their conscience are pierced to repent.

Only to those who harden their hearts and love darkness, find fault and blame true Christianity the cause of global unrest.

Sad, but the Gospel must be proclaimed until the full number of Gentiles have come in, and by this all Israel shall be saved.

Shalom in the name of Jesus Christ

 

[St. SteVen]

No, This is incorrect. The word used in Matt 19:9 is porneia in the Greek.
It includes sexual immorality, fornication, marital unfaithfulness, prostitution, adultery, a generic term for sexual sin of any kind.

So you are claiming that Jesus approved of divorce?

Matthew 19:8 NIV
Jesus replied, “Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard.
But it was not this way from the beginning.

[