Did Jesus say that adultery is grounds for divorce? - Nope.

[St. SteVen]

I wanted to address this very quickly.
(I don't know why—yeah, I do—I'm such a liar.)
I'm one of those people, too.
Problem is: I just went to bed less than 3 hours ago.
Yeah, I've been enjoying some insomnia over the holidays.

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I pray that you be blessed with deep rest today.
Shalom rest. Zzzz...

/

 

[St. SteVen]

I want Scripture to make sense, and I'm willing to die trying.

And the more that I foster that philosophy for myself (and, hopefully, others):

The less frustrated I find myself becoming.

I can empathize...

Although at one point I realized that things never add up 100%.
That was VERY frustrating to me. Then I had a freeing thought...

Ultimately faith is required. Which means we believe it even if we DON'T have it all sorted out.

I'm experimenting with a kind of authentic/transparent testimony thing.

It's a good look on you, frankly. - LOL

/

 

[BarneyFife]

I pray that you be blessed with deep rest today.
Shalom rest. Zzzz...

/

Thanks, Bud.

I see you understand how debilitating insomnia can be.

I had no idea until about a year ago when I started weaning myself off some life-crushing meds.

This bout is on and off and I'm actually on the downhill side, so bright light at the end of the tunnel.

I won't ramble about this any further in your nice, new thread. :)

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[Ritajanice]

I have been divorced x2..not long after my second divorce I became Born Again....I gave everything of me to God that evening, he’s my husband, I was in my 30s..I have never dated and have remained faithful....

If God wills me to be married, it will happen...I wait on God for my husband if it’s his will...would I be committing adultery if I marry again?...chances are they would also be divorced at this age.

 

[BarneyFife]

I can empathize...

Although at one point I realized that things never add up 100%.
That was VERY frustrating to me. Then I had a freeing thought...

Ultimately faith is required. Which means we believe it even if we DON'T have it all sorted out.

​

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[BarneyFife]

It's a good look on you, frankly. - LOL

Your are much too kind, Brother.

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[BarneyFife]

The church says: Adultery is grounds for divorce.

Jesus says: I never said any such thing.

Divorce is a terribly damaging thing. Blessed by the church.

Yet ANOTHER good reason to DECONSTRUCT.

Working my way up to SPONTANEOUS deconstruction. - LOL

So, back to the topic:

To this day, my wife will tell you that adultery is a stone-cold deal-breaker for her.
We haven't had to test that theory, bless God.

And, as far superior to me as she is in virtually every way, when our union was in its infancy she, purely by means of childhood training, I'm sure, always saw divorce as an option.
It wasn't like she threw it up in my face continually or anything like that, but she joked about it occasionally, and she had a lot of seemingly arbitrary lines drawn in the sand.

I, on the other hand, was from the "divorce is not an option" and "we don't use that word in this house" school of thought.
These are words that my dad used verbatim on occasion.
The only time he used the "D" word was when he was cursing the concept or referring to someone else's misfortune.

And there were a couple of times, frankly, when my convictions, by the grace of God, were the only thing that has us approaching our 40th anniversary, very shortly.

Of course, there were other (more) times when her patience was serving the same purpose.

Obviously, this is all anecdotal evidence, but I'm growing to appreciate that as I get older and see the value of wisdom gained by experience juxtapositioned with equally important (IMO) dogma (dirty word, I realize).

Marriage and relationships, in general, are worth fighting for if you have the God-given will and good fortune to manage it.

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[St. SteVen]

I have been divorced x2..not long after my second divorce I became Born Again....I gave everything of me to God that evening, he’s my husband, I was in my 30s..I have never dated and have remained faithful....

Ouch. I feel for you.
God has given me opportunities over the years to minister to divorced men.
I had the good sense, I suppose, to not judge, lecture and advise. (unless requested)
They could on me just to be a friend that accepted them as they were.
Just to be an uplifting time of fellowship with a Christian brother,

I hope you have some fine folks like that in your life.
If not, that's my prayer for you. AMEN

If God wills me to be married, it will happen...I wait on God for my husband if it’s his will...would I be committing adultery if I marry again?...chances are they would also be divorced at this age.

As soon as I read that the thought of being equally yoked crossed my mind.
I suppose it makes sense to find a mate on equal-footing, so to speak.

And we know when God is putting something together. It has his fingerprints all over it.
And... what God has put together...

/

 

[BarneyFife]

As soon as I read that the thought of being equally yoked crossed my mind.
I suppose it makes sense to find a mate on equal-footing, so to speak.

That's generally what holds up the works, particularly with a believer with the convictions of a @Ritajanice.

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[St. SteVen]

I, on the other hand, was from the "divorce is not an option" and "we don't use that word in this house" school of thought.

That was our attitude. This is forever.
Although I was crushed when my young wife told me that when we got to heaven she was off the hook. Say what? !!!

I winch when I hear the wedding vows saying, "As long as love will last."
Great. I'll give you two weeks. Seriously?

Marriage and relationships, in general, are worth fighting for if you have the God-given will and good fortune to manage it.

Absolutely.
That's really the point here.
I roll my eyes when I hear the "irreconcilable differences" excuse. Seriously?
Hope they don't remarry. (second verse, same as the first)

/

 

[St. SteVen]

St. SteVen said:
As soon as I read that the thought of being equally yoked crossed my mind.
I suppose it makes sense to find a mate on equal-footing, so to speak.

That's generally what holds up the works, particularly with a believer with the convictions of a @Ritajanice.

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Holds up the works? How?

/

 

[BarneyFife]

I have been divorced x2..not long after my second divorce I became Born Again....I gave everything of me to God that evening, he’s my husband, I was in my 30s..I have never dated and have remained faithful....

If God wills me to be married, it will happen...I wait on God for my husband if it’s his will...would I be committing adultery if I marry again?...chances are they would also be divorced at this age.

I wish I could write something as thoughtful and kind as Steve did in response to your beautiful testimony, Sis.

But I guess it's best not to try to one-up him, eh? It's a bad look.

Your participation here has been very valuable to the CyB community, btw, if I haven't said so before.

And I know the LORD has many good things in store for you in the days ahead.

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[Ritajanice]

I wish I could write something as thoughtful and kind as Steve did in response to your beautiful testimony, Sis.

But I guess it's best not to try to one-up him, eh? It's a bad look.

Your participation here has been very valuable to the CyB community, btw, if I haven't said so before.

And I know the LORD has many good things in store for you in the days ahead.

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Thank you , what a lovely thing to say.

I certainly haven’t always behaved here I must say....I got a very big wake up call one morning from the Lord....and it arrived in my mail box....by @pompadour ....God spoke to me through this man....and he and GOD know just how grateful I was for this warning...Gods word must always be delivered to the heart and it was that morning....Praise God.

Sorry about that..it was on my heart...back to topic.

Edit to add... you have such a great way with words....

 

[BarneyFife]

That was our attitude. This is forever.
Although I was crushed when my young wife told me that when we got to heaven she was off the hook. Say what? !!!

I winch when I hear the wedding vows saying, "As long as love will last."
Great. I'll give you two weeks. Seriously?


Absolutely.
That's really the point here.
I roll my eyes when I hear the "irreconcilable differences" excuse. Seriously?
Hope they don't remarry. (second verse, same as the first)

/

Yeah, divorce used to be a hard thing to get, not so long ago, right here in the good ol' USA.
I'm a big cinephile, so I know.
Hey, everything in the movies is real... I think. - LOL

We're about to get some pretty substantial snowfall here in starting in an hour or two.
YAY!
(I have a garage that I actually park my car in, and ♫no particular place to go♫ 'til Monday—I'm seriously considering conveniently forgetting to check if church is on for today.)

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[BarneyFife]

Thank you , what a lovely thing to say.

Aaaahh, it was nuthin, Sis.

I got a very big wake up call one morning from the Lord....and it arrived in my mail box....by @pompadour ....God spoke to me through this man....and he and GOD know just how grateful I was for this warning...Gods word must always be delivered to the heart and it was that morning....Praise God.

Aw, yeah, he's a good 'n'. Gave me quite a salutary flogging a few years ago. And I deserved it.

Rumour is, he used to actually own this outfit (I hope it's okay for me to say that—yeah, Angelina told me so it must be all right—she calls him "Pompie"—I don't think I could get away with that - lol—pardon my thinkin' out loud seizure).

Edit to add... you have such a great way with words....

Well, that's very kind of you to say. I do try to live up to the Encounter Team image once or twice a year, whether I need to or not. (You get a "Big Grin.")

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[BarneyFife]

St. SteVen said:
As soon as I read that the thought of being equally yoked crossed my mind.
I suppose it makes sense to find a mate on equal-footing, so to speak.

Holds up the works? How?

/

Waitin' for a equally yoked fella, you silly.

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[St. SteVen]

Hey, everything in the movies is real... I think. - LOL

Well, if smoke and mirrors are real... stands to reason. ???

/

 

[St. SteVen]

Waitin' for a equally yoked fella, you silly.

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Oh, I see. A tall order.
Maybe even tall, dark, and handsome. - LOL

Or just wealthy. Could make that work.

/

 

[Tulipbee]

The position of the church and society at large is mistaken as to what Jesus was quoted as saying in the gospels. IMHO
Let's discuss.

Questions:
1) What did Jesus actually say?
2) Why did he say it?
3) If we got this wrong, where do we go from here?

The position of the church and society at large is that adultery (sexual immorality) is grounds for divorce.
And they will quote Jesus as an authority on this. But is Jesus being misquoted? Yes, I believe so.
The biggest problem is the disconnect we have with the culture that Jesus was speaking to.

The church teaches that the only grounds for divorce is adultery. (sexual immorality)
But that is not what Jesus actually said.

The basis for this teaching is found in Matthew 19:9
See the NIV translation below, taking note of verse 10 as well as verse 9. (at the very bottom of this post)
Then compare the KJV below that. Note the use of the word "fornication" which matches the NT Greek.

This makes a HUGE difference, especially when considering the cultural setting of the Israelites under the law.
Jesus was saying that the only grounds for divorce is fornication, which is sexual intercourse before marriage. (not after)
What does this mean? Both in the historical context and to the misinterpretation assigned by the church today. ???

For the Israelites, a bride's parents presented her as a virgin to her husband-to-be. The law of Moses made a provision for this.
If the husband-to-be discovered that he had been given a bride that was not a virgin, he could divorce her. (for fornication)
Unfortunately, some new husbands were making false claims in order to divorce their new brides. The fornication loophole.
Parents were allowed to challenge this claim if it was false. See Deuteronomy 22:16-18

Therefore, the KJV translation is correct and the church got it wrong.
Jesus said there is no grounds for divorce except for fornication. Now read verse 10 again.
Better not to marry? Indeed. Not if you have ANY plans to divorce.

Matthew 19:8-10 NIV
Jesus replied, “Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard. But it was not this way from the beginning.
9 I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery.”
10 The disciples said to him, “If this is the situation between a husband and wife, it is better not to marry.”

--- COMPARE ---

Matthew 19:8-10 KJV
He saith unto them, Moses because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives:
but from the beginning it was not so.
9 And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication,
and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery.
10 His disciples say unto him, If the case of the man be so with his wife, it is not good to marry.

/

Ah, you've brought us into the divine courtroom, examining the evidence of what Jesus actually said about divorce. In the Calvinist comedy club, let's unpack this theological puzzle and sprinkle in a few Gospel punchlines!
So, the church and society at large often claim that adultery is the golden ticket for divorce, right? But, hold on to your theological seatbelt, because it seems we might have a case of misquoting Jesus!
The NIV version suggests that Jesus said, "Anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality (adultery), and marries another woman commits adultery." But let's take a peek at the KJV translation, which throws in the term "fornication."
Now, here's where it gets interesting – fornication, in the cultural context of the Israelites, wasn't about a post-marriage affair. It was more like a "Whoops, we got a non-virgin bride on our hands" scenario. Like a biblical version of "I ordered a virgin, and this is not what I signed up for!"
So, Jesus seems to be saying, "Listen up, folks, the only legit reason for divorce is discovering your bride wasn't the virgin package you ordered." It's not about catching your spouse in an extramarital escapade; it's about the integrity of the original marriage deal.
Now, consider the Israelite setup – brides being presented as virgins, and if that turned out to be false advertising, there was a fornication loophole for divorce.
But the church today might be a bit off in interpreting this. It's not about catching your spouse in post-marital misconduct; it's about a bridal switcheroo.
So, where do we go from here? Maybe a collective theological facepalm? Perhaps a reevaluation of the cultural nuances Jesus was addressing? And let's not forget a healthy dose of Gospel grace – Jesus, the ultimate Redeemer, sorting out even the messiest marital mishaps.
In the grand comedy of redemption, let's remember that Jesus isn't just a divine divorce lawyer; He's the Savior who turns our broken stories into tales of grace. Because in the Calvinist comedy, even our theological plot twists find their resolution in the finished work of Christ! #CalvinistComedyClub #GospelLaughs

 

[BarneyFife]

@Tulipbee Welcome, welcome, welcome!!!​

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