Did Jesus have faith ?

[bbyrd009]

Not only do the scriptures reveal that Jesus has faith, but scripture informs us that God's people at the time of His coming will also have that same faith...
Revelation 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

well, might be kind of cheating? dunno, seems like tho
New International Version
This calls for patient endurance on the part of the people of God who keep his commands and remain faithful to Jesus.

New Living Translation
This means that God’s holy people must endure persecution patiently, obeying his commands and maintaining their faith in Jesus.

English Standard Version
Here is a call for the endurance of the saints, those who keep the commandments of God and their faith in Jesus.

Berean Study Bible
Here is a call for the perseverance of the saints who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.

Berean Literal Bible
Here is the endurance of the saints, those keeping the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

New American Standard Bible
Here is the perseverance of the saints who keep the commandments of God and their faith in Jesus.

New King James Version
Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.

King James Bible
Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Christian Standard Bible
This calls for endurance from the saints, who keep God's commands and their faith in Jesus."

Contemporary English Version
God's people must learn to endure. They must also obey his commands and have faith in Jesus.

Good News Translation
This calls for endurance on the part of God's people, those who obey God's commandments and are faithful to Jesus.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
This demands the perseverance of the saints, who keep God's commands and their faith in Jesus."

International Standard Version
Here is a call for the endurance of the saints, who keep the commandments of God and hold fast to their faithfulness in Jesus:

NET Bible
This requires the steadfast endurance of the saints--those who obey God's commandments and hold to their faith in Jesus.

New Heart English Bible
Here is the patience of the saints, those who keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus."

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
Here is the patience of The Holy Ones, those who keep the commands of God and the faith of Yeshua.”

GOD'S WORD® Translation
In this situation God's holy people, who obey his commands and keep their faith in Jesus, need endurance.

New American Standard 1977
Here is the perseverance of the saints who keep the commandments of God and their faith in Jesus.

King James 2000 Bible
Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

American King James Version
Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

American Standard Version
Here is the patience of the saints, they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Douay-Rheims Bible
Here is the patience of the saints, who keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Darby Bible Translation
Here is the endurance of the saints, who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.

English Revised Version
Here is the patience of the saints, they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Webster's Bible Translation
Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Weymouth New Testament
Here is an opportunity for endurance on the part of God's people, who carefully keep His commandments and the faith of Jesus!"

World English Bible
Here is the patience of the saints, those who keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus."

Young's Literal Translation
Here is endurance of the saints: here are those keeping the commands of God, and the faith of Jesus.'

so kinda cheating there prolly? seems like we'd have a better shot with
if we are faithless, he remains faithful, for he cannot disown himself
but i guess that is speaking of the Father anyway, right

 

[bbyrd009]

@ Christophany
It's a distraction....it muddies clear waters....it puts itself forward as wisdom when all it is is foolishness

i dunno qt, i found it profound myself

 

[charity]

'Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law,
but by the faith of Jesus Christ,
even we have believed in Jesus Christ,
that we might be justified by the faith of Christ,
and not by the works of the law:
for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.'
(Galatians 2:16)

'Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss
for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord:
for whom I have suffered the loss of all things,
and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,
And be found in Him, not having mine own righteousness,
which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ,
the righteousness which is of God by faith: ... '
(Philippians 3:8-9)

Hello @Christophany,

* How do you explain these references to - 'The Faith of Christ'.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Brakelite]

Faith is described as the assurance of things not seen. Some contend that Jesus didn't have any faith. Let me ask you a question. How did He know at 12 years old who He was? How did He know at 29 before He was baptised and heard the voice from heaven declaring He was His Father's Son? How did He know? How did He know that voice was telling the truth? Did He remember His former life? I don't believe so. I believe He learned Who He was from scripture. And that takes faith.

 

[CadyandZoe]

As I already explained, that was a given. The Word of God gave men the Word of God.

Here's the thing about the resurrection of Christ. All three persons of the Godhead were involved. Christ said that He Himself would bring about His own resurrection (John 2:18-22). Indeed He declared that He Himself was "the Resurrection and the Life" (John 11:25,26). At the same time in Psalm 16:8-11 (quoted in Acts 2:25-28) Christ addresses God the Father as the one who will raise Him. And then we have Scriptures telling us that the Holy Spirit raised Christ from the dead (Rom 8:11; 1 Pet 3:18)

You haven't answered the question. So let me ask it another way. Was Jesus tempted or not?

 

[CadyandZoe]

'Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law,
but by the faith of Jesus Christ,
even we have believed in Jesus Christ,
that we might be justified by the faith of Christ,
and not by the works of the law:
for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.'
(Galatians 2:16)

'Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss
for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord:
for whom I have suffered the loss of all things,
and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,
And be found in Him, not having mine own righteousness,
which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ,
the righteousness which is of God by faith: ... '
(Philippians 3:8-9)

Hello @Christophany,

* How do you explain these references to - 'The Faith of Christ'.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

I knew these verses existed but for some reason I couldn't find them yesterday. Thanks.

 

[ChristisGod]

i dunno qt, i found it profound myself

Why shouldn't we question what we have been told and dig into scripture ourselves to discover if those things are true or not and to question them. I told all my adult kids the same thing don't believe it because I say it but see if what I'm teaching you from scripture is true and then make your own conclusions. They have to come to their own beliefs, their own faith in God and His promises and teachings.

hope this helps !!!

 

[DNB]

Your Hebrews 12 passage actually declares Jesus is the Source of faith, its object.

Hebrews 11 applies to those who seek God in need of salvation, hence faith is needed. Jesus didn't need such faith and once again is the object of salvation found only in Him through faith.

I left out all your ad hominem attacks and did not quote them. Try attacking the argument not the person.

Your explanations are in isolation of the entire passage and context.
I did attack the argument on a fundamental level, expounding that the actions that Jesus took during his time on earth were not superfluous and without profound significance and necessity. You seem to claim that because 'Jesus was slain before the foundations of the world', Golgotha was not necessary, or just a going-through-the-motions of what was already enacted and accomplished.
Thus, I rebuked you for your rather shallow, simple and utterly convoluted and defaming, regard for God's Atonement. That, which in reality and properly expounded on, should reflect His wisdom and holiness.

 

[DNB]

I knew these verses existed but for some reason I couldn't find them yesterday. Thanks.

Likewise!

 

[ChristisGod]

Your explanations are in isolation of the entire passage and context.
I did attack the argument on a fundamental level, expounding that the actions that Jesus took during his time on earth were not superfluous and without profound significance and necessity. You seem to claim that because 'Jesus was slain before the foundations of the world', Golgotha was not necessary, or just a going-through-the-motions of what was already enacted and accomplished.
Thus, I rebuked you for your rather shallow, simple and utterly convoluted and defaming, regard for God's Atonement. That, which in reality and properly expounded on, should reflect His wisdom and holiness.

I never said nor implied such nonsense in fact just the opposite. It always was the plan of the Godhead to send the Son on His mission of Redemption which was the entire point and necessity for the Incarnation in the first place.

And your so-called "rebuke" is nothing but an opinion in which we are not in agreement. And I see you avoided the 10 points in the OP which is based upon biblical facts regarding faith.

hope this helps !!!

 

[Berserk]

I commend Christophany for posing the question of why the Gospels never mention Jesus' faith. Deafening silences in Scripture can be significant. Another example is Paul's failure to use any of the standard words for "Hell"--"Gehenna," "Hades," "Tartarus." Instead, he prefers the words "wrath" and "destruction." Why? Apart from the Gospels, the "faith of Jesus" is frequently mentioned, but mistranslated as "faith in Jesus." It must be remembered that "pistis" means both "faith" and "faithfulness;" so Jesus' faith denotes both His trust/ belief and His faithfulness and hence His obedience to His mission of vicarious atonement. It must also be remembered that the incarnate Christ "emptied Himself" (Phil. 2:6) of His divine prerogatives, including His omniscience, so that He could be "tested in every way just as we are (Heb. 4:15)." Thus, in Gethsemane He tries to get out of His mission, before surrendering to it again. Hebrews tells us that Jesus prayed "with loud cries and tears" (5:7-8) of a presumed insecurity requiring renewed surrender and trust or faith.

 

[DNB]

And I see you avoided the 10 points in the OP which is based upon biblical facts regarding faith.

Thank you @charity for these very insightful passages, that both clearly address and contest the OP's challenge, both on a Scriptural level and a fundamental level (Christ's perfection was defined by his faith)! @Berserk

'Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law,
but by the faith of Jesus Christ,
even we have believed in Jesus Christ,
that we might be justified by the faith of Christ,
and not by the works of the law:
for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.'
(Galatians 2:16)

'Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss
for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord:
for whom I have suffered the loss of all things,
and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,
And be found in Him, not having mine own righteousness,
which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ,
the righteousness which is of God by faith: ... '
(Philippians 3:8-9)

 

[ChristisGod]

Thank you @charity for these very insightful passages, that both clearly address and contest the OP's challenge, both on a Scriptural level and a fundamental level (Christ's perfection was defined by his faith)! @Berserk

'Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law,
but by the faith of Jesus Christ,
even we have believed in Jesus Christ,
that we might be justified by the faith of Christ,
and not by the works of the law:
for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.'
(Galatians 2:16)

'Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss
for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord:
for whom I have suffered the loss of all things,
and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,
And be found in Him, not having mine own righteousness,
which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ,
the righteousness which is of God by faith: ... '
(Philippians 3:8-9)

I see you cherry picked a bible version to suit your doctrine. Its faith IN Christ not the faith of Christ. You must be one of those KJV only types eh ?

Galatians 2:16

New American Standard Bible
nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, so that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified.

New King James Version
knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law; for by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified.

Phil 3:9

Berean Literal Bible
and be found in Him, not having my own righteousness which is of the Law, but that which is through faith from Christ, the righteousness of God on the basis of faith,

New American Standard Bible
and may be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own derived from the Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of faith,

New King James Version
and be found in Him, not having my own righteousness, which is from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is from God by faith;


next................................

 

[farouk]

I see you cherry picked a bible version to suit your doctrine. Its faith IN Christ not the faith of Christ. You must be one of those KJV only types eh ?

Galatians 2:16

New American Standard Bible
nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, so that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified.

New King James Version
knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law; for by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified.

Phil 3:9

Berean Literal Bible
and be found in Him, not having my own righteousness which is of the Law, but that which is through faith from Christ, the righteousness of God on the basis of faith,

New American Standard Bible
and may be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own derived from the Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of faith,

New King James Version
and be found in Him, not having my own righteousness, which is from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is from God by faith;


next................................

I do love the KJV and use it. Where is says 'the faith of Christ', it may actually be objective genitive, meaning = faith in Christ.

 

[ChristisGod]

I do love the KJV and use it. Where is says 'the faith of Christ', it may actually be objective genitive, meaning = faith in Christ.

Agreed !

 

[john t]

Since the OP is a cross post from another web site forum, I shall cross post my reply from there, also.

=======================================

Your thesis is that because there is no record in Scripture of Jesus Christ using a particular Greek word that you arbitrarily chose.

Please look at what Scripture actually says:

John 21:25 Now there are also many other things that Jesus did. Were every one of them to be written, I suppose that the world itself could not contain the books that would be written.
Yours is an argument from silence, and silence proves nothing other than silence itself. In other words, it is logically impossible to say that an absence of evidence is actually evidence of anything. By definition, silence is a void from which nothing positive can be deduced.

Secondly, you are mixing human beliefs with Divine attributes. Being fully God, and with the exception of His second coming, Jesus knows everything there is to know about the beginning and the end. He calls Himself "The alpha and omega" and states that He alone is the gateway into heaven:

John 14:
6 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
7 If you had known me, you would have known my Father also. From now on you do know him and have seen him.”

8 Philip said to him, “Lord, show us the Father, and it is enough for us.”
9 Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long, and you still do not know me, Philip? Whoever has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?
10 Do you not believe that I am in the Father and the Father is in me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on my own authority, but the Father who dwells in me does his works.
11 Believe me that I am in the Father and the Father is in me, or else believe on account of the works themselves.

As a result, it is not being wrong or snarky to state that while your intentions are good, the result is that you are conflating the need for humans to have faith in Jesus Christ and the fact that Jesus Christ is the Guarantor of our entrance into heaven. That is because He alone is both 100% God, and 100% human. One Divine Person, having TWO distinct natures, neither of them being confused, nor mixed up.

 

[ChristisGod]

Since the OP is a cross post from another web site forum, I shall cross post my reply from there, also.

=======================================

Your thesis is that because there is no record in Scripture of Jesus Christ using a particular Greek word that you arbitrarily chose.

Please look at what Scripture actually says:

John 21:25 Now there are also many other things that Jesus did. Were every one of them to be written, I suppose that the world itself could not contain the books that would be written.
Yours is an argument from silence, and silence proves nothing other than silence itself. In other words, it is logically impossible to say that an absence of evidence is actually evidence of anything. By definition, silence is a void from which nothing positive can be deduced.

Secondly, you are mixing human beliefs with Divine attributes. Being fully God, and with the exception of His second coming, Jesus knows everything there is to know about the beginning and the end. He calls Himself "The alpha and omega" and states that He alone is the gateway into heaven:

John 14:
6 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
7 If you had known me, you would have known my Father also. From now on you do know him and have seen him.”

8 Philip said to him, “Lord, show us the Father, and it is enough for us.”
9 Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long, and you still do not know me, Philip? Whoever has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?
10 Do you not believe that I am in the Father and the Father is in me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on my own authority, but the Father who dwells in me does his works.
11 Believe me that I am in the Father and the Father is in me, or else believe on account of the works themselves.

As a result, it is not being wrong or snarky to state that while your intentions are good, the result is that you are conflating the need for humans to have faith in Jesus Christ and the fact that Jesus Christ is the Guarantor of our entrance into heaven. That is because He alone is both 100% God, and 100% human. One Divine Person, having TWO distinct natures, neither of them being confused, nor mixed up.

Did you ever read my PM that I sent you ?

Just checking.

 

[john t]

Did you ever read my PM that I sent you ?
Just checking.

I did, but what is the relevance?

BTW I did not recognize you on that other forum.

 

[ChristisGod]

I did, but what is the relevance?

BTW I did not recognize you on that other forum.

civic over there, just wanted you yo connect the dots brother.

 

[DNB]

I see you cherry picked a bible version to suit your doctrine. Its faith IN Christ not the faith of Christ. You must be one of those KJV only types eh ?

Galatians 2:16

New American Standard Bible
nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, so that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified.

New King James Version
knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law; for by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified.

Phil 3:9

Berean Literal Bible
and be found in Him, not having my own righteousness which is of the Law, but that which is through faith from Christ, the righteousness of God on the basis of faith,

New American Standard Bible
and may be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own derived from the Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of faith,

New King James Version
and be found in Him, not having my own righteousness, which is from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is from God by faith;


next................................

ok, my apologies Christophany, those were not definitive Scriptures declaring the faith of Jesus, that undermine your premise.
But, the reason that I may have been a bit impetuous in using them as support against your thesis, is because I don't believe that the specific and explicit delineation of Christ's faith is required to define the Atonement - understanding the Atonement eg; Christ's passion, precludes your entire premise. For, I have always said that the minute an exegete is required to perform an etymology on a word, it somewhat invariably denotes that they've entirely missed the context. No one principle in all of Christendom, should ever be adjudicated by a single word.

In other words, to understand the dynamics of the Atonement, and as to why God was pleased with Christ, unequivocally defines Christ's obedience, and invariably his faith (for one cannot please God otherwise). That is, understanding that Jesus had a mission, of which the fulfillment of it was not guaranteed - otherwise his actions and sufferings would just be a farce, as would God's judicial integrity - implies immediately that Jesus attained to perfection, which requires faith. This is the over-arching principle of the Atonement. Christ succeeded, where Adam and man failed, and all men are exonerated for the convictions of Jesus. He loved God with all his heart mind and soul.

Thus, why in the world does one need to delve into the etymology of the word faith, in order to understand the disposition of Christ?
As @john t said, your argument is based on silence or the absence of evidence, meanwhile the entire pericope of Christ's mission and obedience has completely eluded you.