Did Jesus claim to be God?

[JohnD]

Logic. A mouse is not equal to a whale just because they have one thing in common.

No you are appealing to a line of reasoning that has no logical or scriptural basis.

 

[JohnD]

Words are not a person. Supposing so is the most ridiculous thing I ever heard of.

Words are not a person. Yet you clearly see THE Word is God in the text of John 1:1.
I can't help it if you cannot understand an idiom. Jesus is the Word of God incarnate.

Revelation 19:13 (CSB)
13 He wore a robe dipped in blood, and his name is called the Word of God.

You really have to stop grasping after straws to cling to whatever extrabiblical doctrine you subscribe to.

It's embarrassing for you.

 

[Wrangler]

No you are appealing to a line of reasoning that has no logical or scriptural basis.

LOL. You said Jesus has one thing in common with God, his Spirit. This does not make equality. It is both logically and Scripturally based.

Jesus said God was greater than him. For some reason, you reject what Jesus says. I'll take Jesus words over yours.

 

[Wrangler]

Words are not a person.

I rest my case.

 

[ElieG12]

The Son in his previous form (God the Word John 1:1-3) who later became the Son (John 1:14) note:

Hebrews 10:5 (KJV)
5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:

The incarnation did not take place until when he entered into the world. Prior to that he was not a Son (Hebrews 1:5b) and the Father was not a Father (Hebrews 1:a). shall be / will be mean prior to that point neither were true.

That's not what the Scriptures teach, since in Job 14:4-7 there were "sons of God" when the planet was being created.

Job 38:4 Where were you when I founded the earth?
Tell me, if you think you understand.
5 Who set its measurements, in case you know,
Or who stretched a measuring line across it?
6 Into what were its pedestals sunk,
Or who laid its cornerstone,
7 When the morning stars joyfully cried out together,
And all the sons of God began shouting in applause?

If there were sons of God during that event, then God was already considered Father at that time.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

Let me guess... New World Translation? Is that your bible?

I can direct you to former Witnesses who discovered the fraud in that translation (by its many revisions once it was discovered earlier version of the NWT disproved Watchtower doctrine). It's man making up the rules, man's authority over the Word of God.

If I am wrong and it's LDS then may I direct you to a Provo, Utah based ministry Mormon Research Ministry (mrm.org).

Aunty Jane is a JW. Those beliefs have next to nothing in common with actual LDS Christian ones.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Back in the day this is the conclusion I came to when looking at this question. ( Short version )

God has a body and he sits on a throne. Well God would not have a throne unless he created it for himself. God would not have a body, albeit a spiritual one, unless he also created it for himself. So the question remains, what was God before he created his own body. The logical deduction is that God propper is the Holy Spirit. He created his body so as to give his creation a focal point to direct their attention towards. Hence the only unpardonable sin is to Blasphemie against the Holy Spirit of God.

I can see your line of reasoning, but at the end of the day, what do Earth-bound humans really know about God Jehovah, and the realm and beings that inhabit the place where he dwells, that is called “heaven”?
We have only seen glimpses through small portals provided in visions to God’s earthly servants. The fact that he is pictured as a King on a throne may only be pictorial of his position from a purely human understanding of sovereignty.
Only the “saints” (God’s chosen kings and priests) will see God as he truly is, but they will have to shed their mortal flesh (as Jesus did) in order to go where Jesus went to “prepare a place” for them. Flesh and blood cannot survive outside of earth’s confines.

We can speculate about many things, but we cannot say with any certainty that our conclusions (logical as they may be from the human standpoint) are true. We simply do not know, and when the time is right, God will tell us ALL we need to know. Our understanding of many things has always been progressive.

Jesus was the first of Gods Creation and held the position of the word of God. God created the rest of the universe through his word, which of course was Jesus in his pre-incarnate form. This is why God could say to Jesus, this day I have begotten you and Jesus would Be mature enough to understand it.

It’s important to understand this....the day that Jesus was baptized, was the day that holy spirit anointed him as the future King of God’s Kingdom. Jesus did understand fully what was taking place.
Before his baptism, Jesus was just “the carpenter’s son”....but now he was “the son of God” taking up the role for which he was sent.

You can only enter this world by the front door, through Birth. The demons are the ones that climb up by the back door.

The demons have always been busy trying to get humans to serve the interests of their leader to drive humans away from the true God.......Satan and his angels are the adversaries of Jehovah and his appointed Commander in Chief......Jesus/Michael, the one who commands God’s angelic army. Only two individuals are said to hold this position, so we can assume that the one who is addressed as “the archangel” (only one) is none other than the spirit who became flesh and was named Jesus. (who has several names depicting his role in God’s purpose at any time. Phil 2:9; Rev 3:12)

It is important to note that because the first rebel was not human, but hijacked the human race for his own selfish purpose, this whole exercise has not just been about us mortals down here on earth, but an object lesson of major proportions teaching all of God’s intelligent creation that God’s Sovereignty is the rightful possession of the Creator alone. No being, regardless of how powerful or devious he may be, will usurp Jehovah’s divine right to dictate the parameters within which we will carry out the will of the one who made us....willingly, of our own volition....out of love.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Aunty Jane is a JW. Those beliefs have next to nothing in common with actual LDS Christian ones.

I think it might be helpful to also note that LDS teachings have little to nothing in common with the Bible...and way more to do with the Book of Mormon, if one is talking about “Christian” teachings....just sayin’...

 

[Wrangler]

the Father has authority over all (including over Jesus

Fact. Unequal authority means not equal.

 

[Aunty Jane]

No, let's first resolve the verse you are trying to avoid by diverting attention to another point. Cults like the Watchtower are notorious for this tactic when the scriptures disprove their false doctrines.

Once again:

1 John 1:1–2 (KJV)
1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;
2 (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us;)

What point was I diverting attention from?
Read the whole scripture again without reading over what it is saying....you underlined the “the Word of life”, but where does it say that “the Word of life” is God?
‘Bearing witness’ to the fact that “eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us” is also not saying what you think it is. “Manifested” means revealed.

The next verse clarifies what the other verses said....
“what we have seen and heard we proclaim to you also, so that you too may have fellowship with us; and indeed our fellowship is with the Father, and with His Son Jesus Christ.” (NASB)
NO threesome. If God was three, then the holy spirit must be a bit miffed at being left out of the conversation so often.

John 17:3...
“This is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.”
See...”he” is missing again! Does this mean we don’t need to “know” the holy spirit in order to gain eternal life? (Which is not really “eternal” in the true sense of the word, but means “everlasting”. No one has “eternal life” (without beginning or end) except the Creator.)
You really don’t see what the scriptures are plainly telling us.....it’s a certain kind of ‘blindness’...(2 Cor 4:3-4)

You don’t read what is written, but simply swallow the lie and read it into everything the scriptures say.
It’s not there....not in any passage of scripture, but the corruption of truth permeates everything Christendom teaches.....justification and the twisting of words to force it into every text is pathetic IMV.

I used to believe what you believe, but then I actually studied the Bible for myself, without Christendom’s every slant on the words to force them to say what they never did. It was a very enlightening exercise.

 

[Wrangler]

The KJV is full of errors and bias in its renderings and that is the reason why other translations were produced with a better understanding of those original languages.

The KJV is a dinosaur in this 21st century…it’s phraseology is confusing to those who do not understand archaic English. Having studied the Bible with many people whose only Bible was the KJV, I always asked if we could read a passage in a number of translations so as to get the correct understanding….it wasn’t long before the dinosaur was put away in favor of a Bible that could actually be read and easily understood.

Worse, they use KJV errors and their own errors in misunderstanding the meaning of the archaic Middle English to "support" doctrine that cannot be defended on the merits.

In my view, the KJV is the most important book ever written in the English language. After half a millenia, it's time in the sun is over and it should be over. We ought to rejoice that translations in our 21st century American exist. I too am enriched by reading multiple translations.

I don't speak middle English. Therefore, I don't read books in a language I don't speak. It's so odd that others hold on to this particular form of idolatry.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Jesus made the claim to be equal with the Father (John 5:17-18)

Nope....John 5:18...
“For this reason therefore the Jews were seeking all the more to kill Him, because He not only was breaking the Sabbath, but also was calling God His own Father, making Himself equal with God.”

“Calling God his Father”, did not make him God, or even equal with his God....
The Jews were wanting to pin a charge of blasphemy on Jesus because they were looking for any excuse to silence him. Blasphemy was a capital offence.

Philippians 2:6 clearly does.

Nope....Phil 2:6...correctly translated, it says the opposite of what the KJV reads into that verse.

“who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped”.

Why did Jesus not want to be seen as claiming to be equal to his God? Because his role as his emissary was one of service to his God (Acts 4:27).....he never once detracted or departed from his mission to claim authority for himself.....whatever authority Jesus had, was “given” to him by his God and Father. (Matt 28:18)

Acts 1:7 says the Father reserves certain foreknowledge under his own authority.
Knowledge that even Jesus did not have (Matthew 24:36, Mark 13:32).
Even the Holy Spirit must search the mind of the Father (1 Corinthians 2:10).

So the Father actually withholds information from the other two parts of himself?...but they are all equally “God”? You have to be kidding me....the deeper in you get, the more bizarre your beliefs become.....
This is the tangled web of deception....nothing makes any sense.

You really need to read the Bible for what it actually says rather than what you are told it says.

Now that is actually very funny considering that you have proven that your own command of scripture is extremely distorted because of who told you that you had the truth.....’physician heal thyself’....

 

[GracePeace]

Ancient Israel and the Christian congregation have a different relationship with God.

For example: While the Israelites were under the law of Moses, Christians no longer have to comply with the detailed requirements of the law with its legal consequences. Those were a nation that was assigned a physical territory; while the members of the Christian congregation are considered citizens of heaven and pilgrims on earth.

On the earth converted into paradise in the future, millions of dead Israelites in the past and many people from all over the world who lived and died in all ages and who were never part of the true Christian congregation will be resurrected. Those who will live on earth will once again become part of the faithful family of God, the Creator, the Father of Jesus, Jehovah.

The citizens of heaven, selected out of the humans, are the bride/wife of Christ. Jesus and his bride/wife in heaven will be the ones to complete the reconciliation of fallen humanity with the Creator on earth.

1 Cor. 15:28 (...) when all things will have been subjected to him [to Jesus], then the Son himself will also subject himself to the One [to Jehovah] who subjected all things to him, that God may be all things to everyone.

Rev. 21:3 With that I heard a loud voice from the throne say: “Look! The tent of God is with mankind, and he will reside with them, and they will be his people. And God himself will be with them. 4 And he will wipe out every tear from their eyes, and death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore. The former things have passed away.”

So, not all humanity will be the bride/wife of Jesus, but just some selected. He is not the husband of the family of his Father in general.

John 17:6 I have made your name manifest to the men whom you gave me out of the world. They were yours, and you gave them to me, and they have observed your word.

Nah, I don't rely on Revelation to establish a doctrine. No one understands Revelation. Everybody has their own personal interpretation (which tend to sound reasonable at first, but fall apart upon scrutiny). Not unless you have witnesses from other texts to corroborate--and even the it's dicey.

No, Israel doesn't have a special relationship with God along these lines. They were His people, but, today, Christians are His people. To show this, Deut 32:21 says they made God jealous by getting other gods, so God would make them jealous by getting another people, so whatever they were is what the believing Gentiles are today.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

I think it might be helpful to also note that LDS teachings have little to nothing in common with the Bible...and way more to do with the Book of Mormon, if one is talking about “Christian” teachings....just sayin’...

In your perspective. I find the opposite to be true. Obviously different people find yet different results.

 

[Aunty Jane]

In your perspective. I find the opposite to be true. Obviously different people find yet different results.

The devil caters to all tastes....he has something for everyone in his box of tricks. Because he has no new tricks, we can see how and where he operates.....usually through men who claim to be prophets....and who proclaim that all that they teach is from God’s spirit.....but the truth is, there is only one truth and thousands of counterfeits....(the wheat and the weeds) finding the ‘diamond’ in that pile of broken glass would be impossible unless God leads us to the diamond.

If he finds an obedient heart, he will “draw” that person to the truth (John 6:44) and they will become part of his international family of human worshippers. These will then become part of the “people for his name”... (Acts 15:15)
They will be united in their beliefs without dissension, and they will be “no part of the world” (John 17:16.... not engaging in its politics, its conflicts or its immoral ways).
They will have ‘love among themselves’ like no other “Christians” can emulate. (John 13:34-35) This is an unselfish love that motivates his people to care for one another, as well as for others. (Gal 6:10) They will also be active in the assignment that Jesus gave his disciples before he returned to heaven (Matt 28:19-20; Matt 24:14). (There is not a mention of him tripping over to Nth America to carry on a ministry there with people no one has ever heard of.)

In the end, all will know if they have chosen wisely in their decisions to follow certain leaders because all who claim to be “Christians” cannot possibly be right. God is choosing us as much as we believe we are choosing him. He will guide right hearted ones to THE truth...the only truth there is.

May we all choose wisely because there are no second chances.....God is going to catch every one of us in the act of being who we really are, from his perspective. We cannot fool him, even though we can easily fool ourselves.

 

[Taken]

Did Jesus claim to be God?

Jesus did not SAY the words, “I AM GOD”, as some people may need to Hear, before they can BELIEVE Jesus “IS” God.

ManKIND was created in Gods “Image”.
ManKIND was made in Gods “likeness”.

Does God and manKIND HAVE…
A body, a mind, a living soul, a spirit, (can hear, see, speak, smell, taste, feel touch, have emotions, can love, can hate, etc. etc. etc.)?

Yes, and when first mankind was created and made. God was pleased, and said of His creation and making it was VERY GOOD.

Can and does A man, have a Name? Yes.
Can and does A man answer to multiple Names? Yes
Can and does A man have multiple descriptions? Yes
Does the same Apply to God ? Yes

Can and does A man, NAME (medically, commonly, slang) Body Parts? Yes

Can and does God call his Parts by Name and Descriptions?
Humm?

What is Gods POWER called?
Almighty, Christ.

What is Gods WISDOM called ?
Christ.

What does God call His WORD?
JESUS, Son, Only begotten, Lord, High Priest, Savior, Christ………GOD!

Heb 1: 1-4
Heb 1:

[5] For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?
[6] And again, when he bringeth in the first begotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.
[7] And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.
[8] But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
[9] Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
[10] And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:

Mark 14:
[61] But he held his peace, and answered nothing. Again the high priest asked him, and said unto him, Art thou the Christ, the Son of the Blessed?

Did Jesus answer YES?? Uh no…

Mark 14:
[62] And Jesus said, I am…

Who IS “us” “our” and “our”?
Gen 1:
[26] And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness:

Gen 1:
[1] In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
[2] And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
[3] And God said…

Gods Creation of His Idea for His Pleasure
Gods Almighty Power
Gods Word

Together ONE Heavenly
“Lord God Almighty”… (Son, Father, Power)

John 10:
[30] I and my Father are one.

Rev 4:
[8] And the four beasts had each of them six wings about him; and they were full of eyes within: and they rest not day and night, saying, Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come.

Human men Reproduce sons. Fathers ARE fathers of sons and sons ARE sons of their fathers.


God can NOT reproduce ANYTHING, that HAS no beginning.
Reproduction by default HAS a beginning.

God sent forth from out of Gods Mouth, Gods Word, (ISA 55:11) in the Likeness AS a man, (Phil 2:8) and SAID He would BE A Father to Him, and He shall BE to God A Son. (Mark 14:61)

Jesus Himself said>>>>”I came out from God”….(John 16:27)

Were Human men IN Heaven, IN Gods Mouth, and Created by Coming forth OUT from God in the Likeness as a man?

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[JohnD]

LOL. You said Jesus has one thing in common with God, his Spirit. This does not make equality. It is both logically and Scripturally based.

Jesus said God was greater than him. For some reason, you reject what Jesus says. I'll take Jesus words over yours.

Jesus claimed equality in John 5:18 and Philippians 2:6 states it as well.

Your problem is you don't believe the scriptures but act as if you do.

Deceiver or deceived, I don't know which one you are.

 

[JohnD]

I rest my case.

No, you rest you case on your deceptive posterior.

The Word is a person once again Revelation 19:13.

You did not quote me accurately and thus you are a deceiver, a cultist, and a troll.

Bye bye.

 

[JohnD]

That's not what the Scriptures teach, since in Job 14:4-7 there were "sons of God" when the planet was being created.

Job 38:4 Where were you when I founded the earth?
Tell me, if you think you understand.
5 Who set its measurements, in case you know,
Or who stretched a measuring line across it?
6 Into what were its pedestals sunk,
Or who laid its cornerstone,
7 When the morning stars joyfully cried out together,
And all the sons of God began shouting in applause?

If there were sons of God during that event, then God was already considered Father at that time.

There were several messiahs yet one ultimate Messiah.

There are several sons of God yet one ultimate Son of God.

Do you agree?

 

[JohnD]

Aunty Jane is a JW. Those beliefs have next to nothing in common with actual LDS Christian ones.

A JW claiming to be a Christian. Nice.

It was the "next to nothing in common" gray area that made me cover both bases.