Did Jesus claim to be God?

[GracePeace]

In the entire Bible I don't see any binitarian Jews.

They exist historically, I'm saying.

Paul, who was an educated Pharisee and later became a Christian, never stopped worshiping Jehovah.

Rom. 1:9 For God, to whom I render sacred service with my spirit in connection with the good news about his Son, is my witness of how without ceasing I always mention you in my prayers
... 3:29 Or is he the God of the Jews only? Is he not also the God of people of the nations? Yes, also of people of the nations.

Again, you keep citing only the Scriptures that seem to prove your view correct--as if I were arguing against it (I'm not)--and you are not so much as acknowledging a verse that, to some, would seem to debunk your view that I've been asking you about.

Hebrews 1
8But of the Son He says,
“YOUR THRONE, O GOD, IS FOREVER AND EVER,
AND THE RIGHTEOUS SCEPTER IS THE SCEPTER OF HIS KINGDOM.

To ignore Scripture to try to prove your point true is deception. Are you going to keep on ignoring Scripture, or are you going to answer?

 

[ElieG12]

Heb. 1:8 refers to Ps. 45:6,7, an ode to a human king. It is impossible for that psalm to call a human king "God," so it is evident that the translation of Heb. 1:8 which suggests that idea is an incorrect translation... you would have to translate the same thing in the Psalm where the reference comes from.

Look at this alternative translation:

Heb. 1:8 But about the Son, he says: “God is your throne forever and ever, and the scepter of your Kingdom is the scepter of uprightness. 9 You loved righteousness, and you hated lawlessness. That is why God, your God, anointed you with the oil of exultation more than your companions.”

It is equivalent to the reference:

Psal. 45:6 God is your throne forever and ever; The scepter of your kingdom is a scepter of uprightness. 7 You loved righteousness, and you hated wickedness. That is why God, your God, has anointed you with the oil of exultation more than your companions.

 

[GracePeace]

Heb. 1:8 refers to Ps. 45:6,7, an ode to a human king. It is impossible for that psalm to call a human king "God," so it is evident that the translation of Heb. 1:8 which suggests that idea is an incorrect translation... you would have to translate the same thing in the Psalm where the reference comes from.

1. At least you're acknowledging the verse now. Thank you.
2. The Psalms are prophetic at times, as David "spoke by the Spirit", and can therefore refer prophetically about the Lord Jesus, so, no, it wouldn't have to be referring to a mere mortal king of Israel as God--but it is a good point.
3. Nevertheless, do you see that there are REASONS (not even that they are going to prove valid upon scrutiny--and not that they won't) in Scripture that convince people who are in good faith, who mean well, that Jesus is God?

 

[ElieG12]

Yes, it is a Mesianic Psalm, like Psal. 89. But it's not talking about GOD:

Psal. 45:1 My heart is stirred by something good.
I say: “My song is about a king.”
May my tongue be the stylus of a skilled copyist.
2 You are the most handsome of the sons of men.
Gracious speech flows from your lips.
That is why God has blessed you forever.

It is evident that an expression like "Oh, God" is impossible to address the subject to whom the ode is addressed.

Recognizing the truth requires effort an honesty.

 

[GracePeace]

Yes, it is a Mesianic Psalm, like Psal. 89. But it's not talking about GOD:

Psal. 45:1 My heart is stirred by something good.
I say: “My song is about a king.”
May my tongue be the stylus of a skilled copyist.
2 You are the most handsome of the sons of men.
Gracious speech flows from your lips.
That is why God has blessed you forever.

It is evident that an expression like "Oh, God" is impossible to address the subject to whom the ode is addressed.

Recognizing the truth requires effort an honesty.

Again, I was giving an example (and there are many) as to how or why people who are in good faith think the Bible teaches Jesus is God. They aren't saying it just to say it, and they're not trying to be tricky. I've known countless trinitarians who bore good fruit in keeping with repentance--who have had eternal life/known God. I don't think eternal life hinges on this issue. I've known people who believe in Christ, but deny Christ is God, who also seemed to know God and who bore good fruit.

 

[Wayne222]

Good topic. In the Old Testament God says I am the first and the last. In revelation Jesus is called the first and the last. In the Old Testament God days is called the only rock. In the New Testament Jesus is called the rock.

 

[ElieG12]

There is truth and there is lie. I trust that God will take care of finding sincere people and bringing them to the truth.

John 3:19 Now this is the basis for judgment: that the light has come into the world, but men have loved the darkness rather than the light, for their works were wicked. 20 For whoever practices vile things hates the light and does not come to the light, so that his works may not be reproved. 21 But whoever does what is true comes to the light, so that his works may be made manifest as having been done in harmony with God.”
... 4:23 Nevertheless, the hour is coming, and it is now, when the true worshippers will worship the Father with spirit and truth, for indeed, the Father is looking for ones like these to worship him.

There are no impossible things for God; He knows who belongs to him.

Num. 16:5 Then he said to Korʹah and to all his supporters: “In the morning Jehovah will make known who belongs to him and who is holy and who should approach him, and whomever he may choose will approach him."

2 Tim. 2:19

 

[GracePeace]

There is truth and there is lie. I trust that God will take care of finding sincere people and bringing them to the truth.

John 3:19 Now this is the basis for judgment: that the light has come into the world, but men have loved the darkness rather than the light, for their works were wicked. 20 For whoever practices vile things hates the light and does not come to the light, so that his works may not be reproved. 21 But whoever does what is true comes to the light, so that his works may be made manifest as having been done in harmony with God.”
... 4:23 Nevertheless, the hour is coming, and it is now, when the true worshippers will worship the Father with spirit and truth, for indeed, the Father is looking for ones like these to worship him.

There are no impossible things for God; He knows who belongs to him.

Num. 16:5 Then he said to Korʹah and to all his supporters: “In the morning Jehovah will make known who belongs to him and who is holy and who should approach him, and whomever he may choose will approach him.

2 Tim. 2:19

Yes, there is truth and there is lie, but I really don't believe eternal life rests upon this issue.

John says eternal life is in believing Jesus is the Christ and the Son of God--you can believe both of those things without believing Jesus is God, or you can believe them both and add that, to you, Jesus is God.

 

[ElieG12]

I hear you, but Jesus said something different:

John 17:3 This means everlasting life, their coming to know you, the only true God, and the one whom you sent, Jesus Christ.

 

[GracePeace]

I hear you, but Jesus said something different:

John 17:3 This means everlasting life, their coming to know you, the only true God, and the one whom you sent, Jesus Christ.

How is that "different"? They can know God and Christ even if they don't know how to perfectly correctly label Christ. I'm sure if Christ returns and says "Guys I'm not God lol stop it" they'd accept it.

 

[Wayne222]

Good topic. In the Old Testament God says I am the first and the last. In revelation Jesus is called the first and the last. In the Old Testament God days is called the only rock. In the New Testament Jesus is called the rock.

Jesus is clearly God. But he never was out spoken of who he was during his mission. In fact he hid who he was. The signs of who he was he showed by his works. The miracles and the testimony of John the Baptist. His resurrection was proof he was the Christ. And Christ was God in the flesh. Jesus even spoken in parables so what he was saying would be hidden from them. Jesus is not the Father he is one of the three that is God. He is the only son of God. And has his complete full nature because he proceeded out of the Father from eternity.

 

[GracePeace]

I hear you, but Jesus said something different:

John 17:3 This means everlasting life, their coming to know you, the only true God, and the one whom you sent, Jesus Christ.

We're not talking about Muslims, here, we're talking about brothers and sisters in Christ.

 

[ElieG12]

How is that "different"? They can know God and Christ even if they don't know how to perfectly correctly label Christ. I'm sure if Christ returns and says "Guys I'm not God" they'd accept it.

Jesus called his Father: "you, the only true God".

Binitarians or Trinitarians don't listen.

Rev. 3:12 The one who conquers—I will make him a pillar in the temple of my God, and he will by no means go out from it anymore, and I will write upon him the name of my God and the name of the city of my God, the New Jerusalem that descends out of heaven from my God, and my own new name.

There's no room for mistakes on this issue: God's identity has been transparent since the Jews to the Jews who became Christians.

Dt. 6:4 “Listen, O Israel: Jehovah our God is one Jehovah. 5 You must love Jehovah your God with all your heart and all your soul and all your strength. 6 These words that I am commanding you today must be on your heart, 7 and you must inculcate them in your sons and speak of them when you sit in your house and when you walk on the road and when you lie down and when you get up. 8 Tie them as a reminder on your hand, and they must be like a headband on your forehead. 9 Write them on the doorposts of your house and on your gates.

...None of them substituted Jehovah for Jesus, nor did they confuse them... A composed God is contrary to what is clearly stated in the Scriptures and in the history of the Christian congregation of the first century, as we read about it in the Scriptures:

Acts 4:24 On hearing this, they raised their voices with one accord to God and said:
“Sovereign Lord, you are the One who made the heaven and the earth and the sea and all the things in them, 25 and who said through holy spirit by the mouth of our forefather David, your servant: ‘Why did nations become agitated and peoples meditate on empty things? 26 The kings of the earth took their stand and the rulers gathered together as one against Jehovah and against his anointed one.’ 27 For truly both Herod and Pontius Pilate with men of the nations and with peoples of Israel were gathered together in this city against your holy servant Jesus, whom you anointed, 28 to do what your hand and counsel had determined beforehand to occur. 29 And now, Jehovah, give attention to their threats, and grant to your slaves to keep speaking your word with all boldness, 30 while you stretch out your hand for healing and while signs and wonders occur through the name of your holy servant Jesus.”

In heaven no one considers Jesus to be God.

Rev. 5:9 And they sing a new song, saying: “You are worthy to take the scroll and open its seals, for you were slaughtered and with your blood you bought people for God out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation, 10 and you made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God, and they are to rule as kings over the earth.”

 

[GracePeace]

Jesus called his Father: "you, the only true God".

Binitarians or Trinitarians don't listen.

Rev. 3:12 The one who conquers—I will make him a pillar in the temple of my God, and he will by no means go out from it anymore, and I will write upon him the name of my God and the name of the city of my God, the New Jerusalem that descends out of heaven from my God, and my own new name.

There's no room for mistakes on this issue: God's identity has been transparent since the Jews to the Jews who became Christians.

Dt. 6:4 “Listen, O Israel: Jehovah our God is one Jehovah. 5 You must love Jehovah your God with all your heart and all your soul and all your strength. 6 These words that I am commanding you today must be on your heart, 7 and you must inculcate them in your sons and speak of them when you sit in your house and when you walk on the road and when you lie down and when you get up. 8 Tie them as a reminder on your hand, and they must be like a headband on your forehead. 9 Write them on the doorposts of your house and on your gates.

...None of them substituted Jehovah for Jesus, nor did they confuse them... A composed God is contrary to what is clearly stated in the Scriptures and in the history of the Christian congregation of the first century, as we read about it in the Scriptures:

Acts 4:24 On hearing this, they raised their voices with one accord to God and said:
“Sovereign Lord, you are the One who made the heaven and the earth and the sea and all the things in them, 25 and who said through holy spirit by the mouth of our forefather David, your servant: ‘Why did nations become agitated and peoples meditate on empty things? 26 The kings of the earth took their stand and the rulers gathered together as one against Jehovah and against his anointed one.’ 27 For truly both Herod and Pontius Pilate with men of the nations and with peoples of Israel were gathered together in this city against your holy servant Jesus, whom you anointed, 28 to do what your hand and counsel had determined beforehand to occur. 29 And now, Jehovah, give attention to their threats, and grant to your slaves to keep speaking your word with all boldness, 30 while you stretch out your hand for healing and while signs and wonders occur through the name of your holy servant Jesus.”

In heaven no one considers Jesus to be God.

Rev. 5:9 And they sing a new song, saying: “You are worthy to take the scroll and open its seals, for you were slaughtered and with your blood you bought people for God out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation, 10 and you made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God, and they are to rule as kings over the earth.”

Irrespectively, it sounds like we're going to disagree that it is an issue on which "eternal life" hinges.

 

[ElieG12]

You dissagree with Jesus. That is your problem, not mine:

John 20:17
Jesus said to her: “Stop clinging to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. But go to my brothers and say to them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father and to my God and your God.’”

 

[GracePeace]

You dissagree with Jesus. That is your problem, not mine:

John 20:17
Jesus said to her: “Stop clinging to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. But go to my brothers and say to them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father and to my God and your God.’”

I'm not taking a side, actually. I already said I don't know what to make of the data.

 

[GracePeace]

You dissagree with Jesus. That is your problem, not mine:

John 20:17
Jesus said to her: “Stop clinging to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. But go to my brothers and say to them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father and to my God and your God.’”

Lol you keep quoting verses that you think prove your argument as if I was unaware of them or wanted to dispute them--on the contrary, it's verses like those that make me have doubts about the idea that Christ is God.

 

[ElieG12]

Well, we all need to take a side: the truth or the lie.

Consider this: the Most High God could not call anyone "God", as that would indicate that there is someone above him and then he would no longer be the Most High or Sovereign.

Have you considered how many times Jesus speaks about his God? Have you read how many times other inspired writers speak about Jesus' God?

Rev. 1:4 (...) May you have undeserved kindness and peace from “the One who is and who was and who is coming,” and from the seven spirits that are before his throne, 5 and from Jesus Christ, “the Faithful Witness,” “the firstborn from the dead,” and “the Ruler of the kings of the earth.”
To him who loves us and who set us free from our sins by means of his own blood— 6 and he made us to be a kingdom, priests to his God and Father—yes, to him be the glory and the might forever. Amen.

 

[GracePeace]

Well, we all need to take a side: the truth or the lie.

Consider this: the Most High God could not call anyone "God", as that would indicate that there is someone above him and then he would no longer be the Most High or Sovereign.

Have you considered how many times Jesus speaks about his God? Have you read how many times other inspired writers speak about Jesus' God?

Rev. 1:4 (...) May you have undeserved kindness and peace from “the One who is and who was and who is coming,” and from the seven spirits that are before his throne, 5 and from Jesus Christ, “the Faithful Witness,” “the firstborn from the dead,” and “the Ruler of the kings of the earth.”
To him who loves us and who set us free from our sins by means of his own blood— 6 and he made us to be a kingdom, priests to his God and Father—yes, to him be the glory and the might forever. Amen.

To reiterate: I don't believe eternal life is decided by this issue, it's decided by God being merciful (Jer 31:34).

 

[ElieG12]

I heard you the first time you said that. Did you hear Jesus?

John 17:3 This means everlasting life, their coming to know you, the only true God, and the one whom you sent, Jesus Christ.

Rom. 10:9 For if you publicly declare with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, and exercise faith in your heart that God raised him up from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one exercises faith for righteousness, but with the mouth one makes public declaration for salvation.