Did Jesus claim to be God?

[GracePeace]

John 17:3 talks about knowing God and the one He sent...two different persons.

If someone is confusing God with the one He sent, that person doesn't know any of them.

No, the lame man got healed and didn't even know it was Jesus Who'd healed him--how much moreso for people who recognize Jesus as the Christ and Son of God (even if it is debatable what precisely that means)? Yes, they can know God by God's mercy.

Jesus will definitively clarify this issue if necessary when He returns, but it is the lowly who are being saved (1 Co). They don't have to be able to solve this riddle. This isn't Hercules, who had to perform twelve great labors.

 

[ElieG12]

No, the lame man got healed and didn't even know it was Jesus Who'd healed him--how much moreso for people who recognize Jesus as the Christ and Son of God (even if it is debatable what precisely that means)? Yes, they can know God by God's mercy.

Healing was done in the name of Jesus (to forgive sins) with the power of the spirit of his Father ... so men glorify God, the Father.

Acts 3:6 However, Peter said: “Silver and gold I do not possess, but what I do have is what I give you. In the name of Jesus Christ the Nazareneʹ, walk!” 7 With that he took hold of him by the right hand and raised him up. Instantly his feet and his ankles were made firm; 8 and leaping to his feet, he began walking and went with them into the temple, walking and leaping and praising God. 9 And all the people saw him walking and praising God.

Jesus will definitively clarify this issue if necessary when He returns, but it is the lowly who are being saved (1 Co). They don't have to be able to solve this riddle. This isn't Hercules, who had to perform great feats.

Jesus was clear enough about that when he was on earth.

John 20:17 Jesus said to her: “Stop clinging to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. But go to my brothers and say to them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father and to my God and your God.’”

 

[GracePeace]

Healing was done in the name of Jesus (to forgive sins) with the power of the spirit of his Father ... so men glorify God, the Father.

The paralytic in John's Gospel didn't know it was Jesus.

John 5
11But he answered, “The man who made me well told me, ‘Pick up your mat and walk.’” 12“Who is this man who told you to pick it up and walk?” they asked. 13But the man who was healed did not know who it was, for Jesus had slipped away while the crowd was there.

You sure you're not being Pharisaic?

Acts 3:6 However, Peter said: “Silver and gold I do not possess, but what I do have is what I give you. In the name of Jesus Christ the Nazareneʹ, walk!” 7 With that he took hold of him by the right hand and raised him up. Instantly his feet and his ankles were made firm; 8 and leaping to his feet, he began walking and went with them into the temple, walking and leaping and praising God. 9 And all the people saw him walking and praising God.

Jesus was clear enough about that when he was a human.

John 20:17 Jesus said to her: “Stop clinging to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. But go to my brothers and say to them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father and to my God and your God.’”

Yeah, there's obviously a lack of clarity on the issue, or people wouldn't be debating it. The same Scripture says,

Hebrews 1
8But about the Son He says: “Your throne, O God, endures forever and ever, and justice is the scepter of Your kingdom.

And there're many other verses and arguments along those same lines seemingly saying Christ is God.

 

[ElieG12]

This is the context of that miracle:

John 5:19 Therefore, in response Jesus said to them: “Most truly I say to you, the Son cannot do a single thing of his own initiative, but only what he sees the Father doing. For whatever things that One does, these things the Son does also in like manner. 20 For the Father has affection for the Son and shows him all the things he himself does, and he will show him works greater than these, so that you may marvel. "

Are you sure you know the facts?

 

[GracePeace]

Healing was done in the name of Jesus (to forgive sins) with the power of the spirit of his Father ... so men glorify God, the Father.

Acts 3:6 However, Peter said: “Silver and gold I do not possess, but what I do have is what I give you. In the name of Jesus Christ the Nazareneʹ, walk!” 7 With that he took hold of him by the right hand and raised him up. Instantly his feet and his ankles were made firm; 8 and leaping to his feet, he began walking and went with them into the temple, walking and leaping and praising God. 9 And all the people saw him walking and praising God.

Jesus was clear enough about that when he was on earth.

John 20:17 Jesus said to her: “Stop clinging to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. But go to my brothers and say to them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father and to my God and your God.’”

Show people a little grace--it's a debatable issue. It's not clear cut like, "do not covet".

 

[GracePeace]

This is the context of that miracle:

John 5:19 Therefore, in response Jesus said to them: “Most truly I say to you, the Son cannot do a single thing of his own initiative, but only what he sees the Father doing. For whatever things that One does, these things the Son does also in like manner. 20 For the Father has affection for the Son and shows him all the things he himself does, and he will show him works greater than these, so that you may marvel. "

Are you sure you know the facts?

I stand by what I said, and what the Scripture explicitly stated--the paralytic did not know it was Jesus. Don't you love Scripture? Love it in this case, as well.

 

[ElieG12]

I study what Jesus taught, so I don't need to be confused about what he clearly showed us.

If John 17:3 says we need to know God and the one He sent, that I need to do. I can achieve this if I carefully study the things that Jesus said. For example:

Rev. 3:12 “‘The one who conquers—I will make him a pillar in the temple of my God, and he will by no means go out from it anymore, and I will write upon him the name of my God and the name of the city of my God, the New Jerusalem that descends out of heaven from my God, and my own new name.

 

[GracePeace]

I study what Jesus taught, so I don't need to be confused about what he clearly showed us.

If John 17:3 says we need to know God and the one He sent, that I need to do.

Yeah, but, again, knowing them is different than being capable of giving a theological treatise on the issue. You can know someone without knowing everything about them. Again, the paralytic didn't even known it was Jesus, and derived benefit from Him.

 

[ElieG12]

I hear you... but I am more interested on what Jesus taught, like this:

John 4:23 Nevertheless, the hour is coming, and it is now, when the true worshippers will worship the Father with spirit and truth, for indeed, the Father is looking for ones like these to worship him. 24 God is a Spirit, and those worshipping him must worship with spirit and truth.”

 

[GracePeace]

This is the context of that miracle:

John 5:19 Therefore, in response Jesus said to them: “Most truly I say to you, the Son cannot do a single thing of his own initiative, but only what he sees the Father doing. For whatever things that One does, these things the Son does also in like manner. 20 For the Father has affection for the Son and shows him all the things he himself does, and he will show him works greater than these, so that you may marvel. "

Are you sure you know the facts?

I'm not even saying you're wrong about Christ--I don't know, myself--I'm just saying I don't think it's going to determine whether someone has eternal life either way.

 

[GracePeace]

I hear you... but I am more interested on what Jesus taught, like this:

John 4:23 Nevertheless, the hour is coming, and it is now, when the true worshippers will worship the Father with spirit and truth, for indeed, the Father is looking for ones like these to worship him. 24 God is a Spirit, and those worshipping him must worship with spirit and truth.”

Yeah, there're many arguments for both sides. I'm not disagreeing with that fact.

 

[ElieG12]

Again, I understand your opinion, but your opinion won't save anyone. That is why I study the Scriptures to know what I need to do:

Acts 15:19 Therefore, my decision is not to trouble those from the nations who are turning to God, 20 but to write them to abstain from things polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from what is strangled, and from blood.

So, we need to act according to what we read to get God's approval. It's not only about faith, but about acting. Jesus laid the foundation so that upon his departure, his followers would be united in a community that would continue to do the things he taught.

Matt. 28:19 Go, therefore, and make disciples of people of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded you. And look! I am with you all the days until the conclusion of the system of things.”

 

[GracePeace]

So, we need to act according to what we read to get God's approval.

Yeah, and "according to what we read" is what is in question--some people "read" this, some people "read" that--so appealing to "what we read" is not solving anything.

I'm not even taking a side, I'm just saying I think it's debatable, and it is not right to say people who disagree with you don't have eternal life.

 

[ElieG12]

Everyone reads the same (more or less) ... some people won't get it because of their attitude. PERIOD.

2 Thess. 2:9 But the lawless one’s presence is by the operation of Satan with every powerful work and lying signs and wonders 10 and every unrighteous deception for those who are perishing, as a retribution because they did not accept the love of the truth in order that they might be saved. 11 That is why God lets a deceptive influence mislead them so that they may come to believe the lie, 12 in order that they all may be judged because they did not believe the truth but took pleasure in unrighteousness.

 

[GracePeace]

Everyone reads the same (more or less) ... some people won't get it because of their attitude. PERIOD.

2 Thess. 2:9 But the lawless one’s presence is by the operation of Satan with every powerful work and lying signs and wonders 10 and every unrighteous deception for those who are perishing, as a retribution because they did not accept the love of the truth in order that they might be saved. 11 That is why God lets a deceptive influence mislead them so that they may come to believe the lie, 12 in order that they all may be judged because they did not believe the truth but took pleasure in unrighteousness.

It seems like you are saying there are no verses that CAN (not that they SHOULD) be read as saying Christ is God. Is that the case?

I ask because you keep appealing to verses that support your view, but you don't even acknowledge there are verses that others are basing their beliefs on (even if, in your opinion, those "others" haven't satisfactorily answered your verses).

 

[ElieG12]

2 Thess. 2:9-12 says there is LIE and TRUTH.

Lies, like ignorance, provide comfort and even pleasure. The truth requires effort and honesty.

I don´t have any opinion ... it is what it is, as written.

 

[GracePeace]

2 Thess. 2:9-12 says there is LIE and TRUTH.

Lies, like ignorance, provide comfort and even pleasure. The truth requires effort and honesty.

I don´t have any opinion ... it is what it is, as written.

OK so you don't acknowledge there are verses that make people think Jesus is God.

What do you make, for example, of the verse I raised earlier?

Hebrews 1
8But about the Son He says: “Your throne, O God, endures forever and ever, and justice is the scepter of Your kingdom.

 

[GracePeace]

2 Thess. 2:9-12 says there is LIE and TRUTH.

Lies, like ignorance, provide comfort and even pleasure. The truth requires effort and honesty.

I don´t have any opinion ... it is what it is, as written.

Do you realize there were binitarian Jews before Christianity ever came around--because of the complicated picture given in Scripture? "

Two Powers In Heaven" they called it. Look it up if you want.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

The Bible does not record where Jesus said: "I am God". However, he said in (NIV) John 10:


Jesus claimed to be one with the Father.


Jesus' opponents thought that Jesus claimed to be God.


Jesus didn't deny the claim.


More precisely, Jesus insisted that he was the Son of God.

Elsewhere in John 14:


There is strong evidence that Jesus implied that he was God but he had always preferred to label himself as the Son of Man and the Son of God.

See also

• In the epistles, Jesus is often treated as God
• Did Jesus know that he was God?
• Why did Jesus not say explicitly that he was God in the Gospels?

Well, He did. When the Pharisees questioned Him about seeing Abraham and He said before Abraham was, I AM.
That certainly ruffled their feathers. They knew what He was implying. He was saying He was God, which was why they picked up stones. They knew it was a reference to God's words to Moses: God said to Moses, “I am who I am.”And he said, “Say this to the people of Israel: ‘I am has sent me to you.’”Ex. 3:14
This was an brief introduction ( though at the time vague and absent descriptive details); details that God would eventually reveal to the world through Christ.
The Book of John reveals Jesus' deity. The first sentence introduces Jesus as God pre-existing from the beginning. He is the Logos, the exact expression and illumination of God, in the fullness of Light, Truth, Love, Life and Glory, who became a man and dwelt among us. He is the great " I Am", which John reveals:
I am the Light,
I am the Way, the Truth and the Life,
I am the Bread of Life
I am the Good Shepherd
I am the Vine, you are the branches
I am the Door
I am Resurrection and the Life
I am He

Jesus could not make these claims if He was not God. Examine each claim.

But Jesus relinquished his glory temporarily. He did not regard His equality with His Father something mankind would easily grasp.
"who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped," Phil. 2:6

And still to this day, people struggle to grasp it.

 

[ElieG12]

In the entire Bible I don't see any binitarian Jews.

Paul, who was an educated Pharisee and later became a Christian, never stopped worshiping Jehovah.

Rom. 1:9 For God, to whom I render sacred service with my spirit in connection with the good news about his Son, is my witness of how without ceasing I always mention you in my prayers
... 3:29 Or is he the God of the Jews only? Is he not also the God of people of the nations? Yes, also of people of the nations.