Did God commend or approve of Rahab’s lie?

[amigo de christo]

Yes, this is the nature of this thread. I am defending God’s good ways, and yet others are saying that God commended Rahab for lying when God cannot lie. So why would God commend or agree with a lie then? He wouldn’t. I don’t discount the possibility that Rahab lied. But I also do not agree with others who voted “yes” in saying God commended Rahab for lying. That’s just wrong.

My post had nothing to do with rahab . It was rather to remind us DONT GET LINKED UP with the UNITY WE ARE ONE ALL INCLUSIVE
CHURCHES.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

It was an honest reaction to a very sharp rebuke. I am sorry you took offense.

But there is a time for sharp rebukes:

“rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith” (Titus 1:13)

Oh, wow. So you believe he rebuked me? You are far out there in left field somewhere, friend. Not even close. This person mocks apologetics and sounds like a child (using wresting terms of which reminds me of kids in my high school years). This person says they do not care for apologetics and they call them fruitless (See post #50). How can this person rebuke me on apologetics when they imply that they do not care for them and they calls them fruitless? In fact, any helpful Christian article that has helped answer any tough questions for you in the Bible is a form of apologetics (a defense for the Bible).

Also, in order to rebuke somebody you actually have to bring forth evidence (like biblical evidence) and not insults. While I did briefly got my stories mixed up in the OT for a moment (have you never done that before?), I have replied to this person’s statements with the Bible to show they have no merit or standing. Has this person studied the ethics of this issue involving Rahab since 2011 or 2012 and discussed it prior several times with other Christians over the years? Has this person prayed about it? I doubt it. The Bible is not like reading the newspaper or a magazine. It’s a spiritual book and sometimes it has spiritual meanings that we don’t always catch the first few times we read it. God has to reveal the truth to a person with Scripture.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

My post had nothing to do with rahab . It was rather to remind us DONT GET LINKED UP with the UNITY WE ARE ONE ALL INCLUSIVE
CHURCHES.

Yes, while I appreciate the side bar, ultimately this thread is about Rahab, my friend.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

Has he studied the ethics of this issue involving Rahab

Any issue in the Bible needs to be resolved within the Bible. Not our understanding of “ethics”.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Any issue in the Bible needs to be resolved within the Bible. Not our understanding of “ethics”.

Romans 2:14 says, “For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves”

How is this possible? It’s only possible if God imbued men with some form of ethical standards. You turn on the news and you see men reporting about the bad crimes like murder, theft, etcetera. Granted, this is not to say all men are perfect in regards to morality. Some have buried their moral compass when it comes to certain moral things. But generally there are certain ethics that men know by instinct or nature. Well, that is if you believe Romans 2:14. That is if you live on the planet, and see how even unbelievers get upset at certain crimes or sins. How do they know? Like the birds are able to return back to their nesting grounds half way around the planet without a GPS. It’s wired inside them. Granted, man is sinful. No doubt about it. But man also knows that certain things are wrong. How do they know?

So my point here is that if a believer is truly spiritually born again, how much more should they be in tune with the things of God because they abide in Him and His good ways? Many Christians I have talked with over the years appear to think in physical or carnal terms. Many of them justify sin. Many of them just blindly follow whatever their church says and they don’t question anything (Even if it is a moral compromise). They are just blind following sheep. They buy into the lies that God told Hosea to marry a prostitute. They buy into the lie that Abraham lied to Pharaoh in regards to Sarah. Those two situations are undeniable, and I will fight strongly on those points. But many Christians simply don’t care. They don’t see a problem because there is no undeniable ethical standards that must hold true or in being consistent.

Some things in the Bible you shouldn’t need a Bible for in order for you to know if it is good or bad (Especially if one abides in Christ).

Show me clearly in the Bible where God approves of men lying in certain situations. You can’t. In fact, it does not even make sense because Satan is the father of lies (John 8:44).

 

[Bible Highlighter]

1 Samuel 21:13
"So he pretended to be insane in their presence; and while he was in their hands he acted like a madman, making marks on the doors of the gate and letting saliva run down his beard."
Did David lie here?

Yes, I believe in the possibility that David could have lied in this situation. But I know GOD is merciful and I imagine David probably later confessed of this sin to the LORD (even if it is not written). Remember, he that confesses and forsakes sin shall have mercy (Proverbs 28:13).

So if Rahab did indeed lie, I believe she would have to also confess of this sin or at least acknowledge this wrong to God later on in her life to be forgiven of it. But that still leaves a bit of mystery involving James 2:25. I do realize that God used sinful men to crucify our Lord and God used Satan to enter Judas to betray Jesus (Which again is all a part of the cross). But this is God turning a bad situation into a greater plan for good. Is this what happened with Rahab? Did God turn her possible lie into a greater good? Yes, the two spies were saved and Rahab and her household were saved, too. We know Joseph’s brothers who did evil against Joseph, God intended it for a greater good. Is this is what happened with Rahab? Perhaps. Only God knows. For Scripture is silent on the issue. Hence, why I look at this story in three different possibilities. But again… what if she really did lie? Was she simply off the hook? We know that even Jacob’s deception came back upon him in life. Jacob reaped what he sowed.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

This is so much time spent on this! You really worked on it! To me, it seems a lot of time for something not important but I understand that to you it’s very important or you wouldn’t have spent the time on it.I would lie to men to save a life. I would do it quite facilely.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

This is so much time spent on this! You really worked on it! To me, it seems a lot of time for something not important but I understand that to you it’s very important or you wouldn’t have spent the time on it.I would lie to men to save a life. I would do it quite facilely.

Yet, Revelation 21:8 says all liars will have their part in the Lake of Fire. John 8:44 says the devil is the father of lies.
So what else can we do to save men’s lives? What depths of sin can we do in exchange to save others? Would we be willing to fornicate or steal, or hate Christians to save life? Should we be willing to not believe in Jesus as the Savior to save life?

In the End Times: It will come down to you either feeding your family in taking the Mark of the beast or dying for your faith. What would you choose? Most are being set up to take the Mark because their biblical ethics are out of place.

 

[GEN2REV]

I have been studying the ethics of the issue with Rahab since 2011 or 2012.

You've been studying the topic of Rahab lying for ten years?

That's a little obsessive, don't ya think?

Especially since, as many here have shown, she is far from the only character in the Bible to speak an untruth.

It's not like your thread is titled "Did Rahab Lie?"

No, you are making an issue about her lie and asking if God approved of it. You are challenging Christianity's stance against lying and claiming hypocrisy by presenting one character in the Bible that lied.

And you don't need to backtrack again and say "Well, we don't know if she lied, maybe she did, maybe she didn't."

That's not what the title of your thread states. It is a given that you find her guilty of lying and you're asking if she should have been accepted by God for it or not.

It's really kind of a silly point to get all caught up on unless you are trying to "Highlight" some discrepancy in God's Word.

Do YOU find it to be a discrepancy?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

You've been studying the topic of Rahab lying for ten years?

Yes, I am proud to say that.

That's a little obsessive, don't ya think?

No, it’s called having an appreciation for God’s Word and His good ways.
Most don’t care to act as a defense lawyer for GOD. They could care less.
They just are blind following sheep. If they are told that God told Hosea to marry a prostitute, they believe it, and their hearts are numb and response-less (Even when God condemns whoredom). They don’t care. God can just do whatever He pleases if the Bible says it. Well, they either have the wrong translation or they are listening to to the wrong Pastor or Christian.

Especially since, as many here have shown, she is far from the only character in the Bible to speak an untruth.

The issue is that she was commended for a later action that was a result of her possible lying (See: James 2:25).
This should give any person who believes in a standard of consistent morality pause.
Especially when Revelation 21:8 says ALL liars will have their part in the Lake of Fire, and especially when John 8:44 says that the devil is the father of lies. While I do realize God can turn a bad situation and use it for a greater good, the Bible merely is silent in explaining this involving Rahab possible lie, and in light of what is written in James 2:25.

It's not like your thread is titled "Did Rahab Lie?"

I cannot make my entire case in the title of the thread. If you read post #2, I establish that I hold to three possibilities.

No, you are making an issue about her lie and asking if God approved of it. You are challenging Christianity's stance against lying and claiming hypocrisy by presenting one character in the Bible that lied.

Again, as I said back in post #2, I establish that Rahab could have lied as one possibility. My issue is in the voting poll. At the time of this writing, 6 have voted in favor of God commending Rahab for lying. That’s the issue I have here. My attempt to argue for the fact that she may not have lied was in defense for my third possibility in that she may have been using clever word play like Jesus had done.

And you don't need to backtrack again and say "Well, we don't know if she lied, maybe she did, maybe she didn't."

No backtracking involved. If you read post #2, I already establish I hold to three possibilities from the very beginning of this thread. If only you read what I said instead of jumping to conclusions.

That's not what the title of your thread states. It is a given that you find her guilty of lying and you're asking if she should have been accepted by God for it or not.

Under no circumstances did God approve or commend Rahab for lying even if she did lie. Most Christian articles would even agree with me on this point.

It's really kind of a silly point to get all caught up on unless you are trying to "Highlight" some discrepancy in God's Word.

Do YOU find it to be a discrepancy?

I believe God’s Word (the KJB) is perfect and without error and so that would be a… “no.”

Side Note:

I do believe Modern Translations are invaluable and should be read alongside the King James Bible because of it’s many archaic words and usages. But the KJB has more pure doctrine, and is more accurate in other ways, etcetera.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Yet, Revelation 21:8 says all liars will have their part in the Lake of Fire. John 8:44 says the devil is the father of lies.

Gosh…you’re very lawyerlike or…perfectionistic to me…

I know a woman who refuses to tell any kind of lie, even to not hurt someone’s feelings. She left home for a few days and when she came back home, her husband and grown children had cleaned and thrown out her hoarded boxes (empty boxes), newspapers, plastic containers, etc. She was so angry they had touched or moved anything in the house that when the children left, she had a complete meltdown and bit her husband on the arm. She bit him hard, very hard.
You cannot move in her house, there’s no place to sit and eat, every square inch is taken. The husband is miserable but she doesn’t care and no amount of reasoning or pleading with her gets her to care that she has made her family miserable for years. She passively-aggressively controls everyone and everything and makes it impossible for anyone to have even one little place of rest. It all belongs to her and no one else. If you dare to move anything she makes you so miserable with her berating (and biting!) that they just flee her. But hey, it doesn’t say biting others gets you the lake of fire, so she’s covered, right?

Perfectionism has, at its core, the need to mercilessly control others and judge and punish them for not being perfect, when you are far from from perfect yourself.

At this point I feel I’m just rambling and you won’t catch what I’m trying to say…but it’s along the lines of…the letter vs. the spirit of any matter.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Gosh…you’re very lawyerlike or…perfectionistic to me…

Thank you. Jesus said be ye perfect as the Heavenly Father is perfect.
But I don’t believe Sinless Perfection is a salvation issue because I see Sinless Perfection as putting away sins that do not lead unto spiritual death.
But that’s a topic for another discussion.

I know a woman who refuses to tell any kind of lie, even to not hurt someone’s feelings. She left home for a few days and when she came back home, her husband and grown children had cleaned and thrown out her hoarded boxes (empty boxes), newspapers, plastic containers, etc. She was so angry they had touched or moved anything in the house that when the children left, she had a complete meltdown and bit her husband on the arm. She bit him hard, very hard.
You cannot move in her house, there’s no place to sit and eat, every square inch is taken. The husband is miserable but she doesn’t care and no amount of reasoning or pleading with her gets her to care that she has made her family miserable for years. She passively-aggressively controls everyone and everything and makes it impossible for anyone to have even one little place of rest. It all belongs to her and no one else. If you dare to move anything she makes you so miserable with her berating (and biting!) that they just flee her. But hey, it doesn’t say biting others gets you the lake of fire, so she’s covered, right?

I don’t have any of these problems. My wife, my family, and Christian friends consider me to be loving. Anyways, why bring this kind of thing up with me? Are you trying to paint me in a bad light because you don’t agree with my stand on biblical ethics?

Perfectionism has, at its core, the need to mercilessly control others and judge and punish them for not being perfect, when you are far from from perfect yourself.

I fully realize that I cannot control anyone. I realize that I can just plant seeds, and another waters, and it is God that gives the increase.
My issue is when Christians think that God commended Rahab for lying. That’s pretty dark and wrong to me. God cannot lie and so why would God approve of anyone lying? It makes no sense. Not recognizing basic morality falls dangerously close to one being an amoral person or in being a sociopath. For when one cannot recognize moral problems, this is greatly troubling indeed. But then again, we are living in the last days. So I should not be too surprised.

At this point I feel I’m just rambling and you won’t catch what I’m trying to say…but it’s along the lines of…the letter vs. the spirit of any matter.

When Paul said this… it’s not the way that you are using it. He was referring to the Torah as the letter, and not Scripture in general.

Side Note:

You also seemed to have side stepped the points I made to you.
Do you have an answer for them?

 

[L.A.M.B.]

Ouch!

Sorry all.
Yes I wear 9 inch stilettos

 

[L.A.M.B.]

Oh, wow. So you believe he rebuked me? You are far out there in left field somewhere, friend. Not even close. This guy mocks apologetics and sounds like a child (using wresting terms of which reminds me of kids in my high school years). He says he does not care for apologetics and he calls them fruitless (See post #50). How can he rebuke me on apologetics when he implies he does not care for them and he calls them fruitless? In fact, any helpful Christian article that has helped answer any tough questions for you in the Bible is a form of apologetics (a defense for the Bible).

Also, in order to rebuke somebody you actually have to bring forth evidence (like biblical evidence) and not insults. While I did briefly got my stories mixed up in the OT for a moment (have you never done that before?), I have replied to his statements with the Bible to show they have no merit or standing. Has he studied the ethics of this issue involving Rahab since 2011 or 2012 and discussed it prior several times with other Christians over the years? Has he prayed about it? I doubt it. The Bible is not like reading the newspaper or a magazine. It’s a spiritual book and sometimes it has spiritual meanings that we don’t always catch the first few times we read it. God has to reveal the truth to a person with Scripture.

Young man for I'm sure you're way younger than myself at 65.

First correction....... I am female !
Second....... you have gone way overboard with your objections and they need to be sustained.

I think toooooo many ppl get hung up in terminology especially concerning the word.

I don't care for labels either.... I'm a ____ ______ _________ ________.
Are we NOT children of God.
I apologize for my childish rebuke and dismissing of your thread ! You has as much right as any, please forgive me.

I will refrain from interacting with your post.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Young man for I'm sure you're way younger than myself at 65.

I am not too far behind you in age.

First correction....... I am female !

Unless you used flowers in your post and or you employed feminine markings in your avatar or signature (to indicate you are female), there really is no way for me to know that unless I clicked on each person’s avatar and I looked deeper into their profile. That is a full time job that I have not signed up for here. I am here to discuss God’s Word and to fellowship with like minded Christians, and not Christians I disagree with (No offense of course).

Second....... you have gone way overboard with your objections and they need to be sustained.

Well, I don’t believe I have gone overboard (Especially in light of what your said). I actually held back some things I was going to say.
But we can agree to disagree.

I think toooooo many ppl get hung up in terminology especially concerning the word.

Words mean certain things and believers have helped to classify what certain beliefs mean by certain terms or words. It helps us to identify what beliefs are what. Some beliefs are true, and some beliefs are false. Unless one is liberal or a Universalist, I cannot see how a Christian does not care about certain theological terms and or how certain words are used in the Bible. One change on a word can have a devastating effect on meaning and one’s theological held beliefs (Which can even affect one’s morality).

I don't care for labels either.... I'm a ____ ______ _________ ________.
Are we NOT children of God.

2 Corinthians 13:5.

I apologize for my childish rebuke and dismissing of your thread ! You has as much right as any, please forgive me.

I will refrain from interacting with your post.

Thank you for the apology. I do appreciate it; And don’t think that I have not read Joshua 2 again, and prayed about it yet again, seeking truth. Like I said, I do believe in the possibility that Rahab lied. I do want to explore this possibility or option more in reconciling it with James 2:25. I hold to three possibilities of what happened as mentioned in my post #2. In any event, thank you for being kind in the Lord.

May the Lord Jesus Christ bless you (even if we disagree on Scripture).

 

[GEN2REV]

If they are told that God told Hosea to marry a prostitute, they believe it, and their hearts are numb and response-less (Even when God condemns whoredom). They don’t care. God can just do whatever He pleases if the Bible says it. Well, they either have the wrong translation or they are listening to to the wrong Pastor or Christian.

No.

God CAN do whatever He pleases. He's the Author and Creator of everything. And He has a reason for every single thing He does. Especially when it doesn't make sense to us on the surface.

God uses sinners in all kinds of ways. Have you not considered the hate-filled, murderer Saul/Paul who God converted and made the greatest Apostle to ever live? (debatably) He hunted down, tortured and murdered Christians prior to God's choosing and transforming him.

If God told Hosea to marry a prostitute, there was a reason for it. Again, you are implying that a prophet of God married a harlot because he wanted to and nobody is defending God about it. That is irreverence for a chosen prophet of God, which is irreverence for all that he wrote in the Bible and it is irreverence for the Bible's presentation of him. Which, ... is an irreverence for God.

You have a very strange angle on the Bible and, personally, I don't like your perspective on any of it. Not just because it's different than mine, but because I find it to be very arrogant and irreverent under the surface.

That is what I see in all that you have to say about it.

In one breath you say the KJB is perfect. In another, you strongly imply that it has misrepresented God, .... or whatever it is you are trying to say. To be honest, I'm not even convinced you know what it is you are really trying to say. I think you just want to be acknowledged for knowing more about the Bible than others or something, but your ploy just isn't panning out.

Anywho, I'm over this thread. Good luck with it and God bless.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

No.

God CAN do whatever He pleases. He's the Author and Creator of everything. And He has a reason for every single thing He does. Especially when it doesn't make sense to us on the surface.

No. God is good. God is a God of justice and He is fair in what He does. Try reading Luke 12:47-48 to learn about how God is fair in His justice (i.e. a moral standard). God cannot violate the standard of morality He has set for us unless He clearly let us know He has changed it, or unless there is different situational ethics involved we are not aware of (like in this case it could be she employed the art of war). Could she have lied? Yes. But God did not commend her for lying if she did. If you so say otherwise, then you worship a different God than me. Can His word be confusing at times like with Joshua 2? It sure can. But this is where we trust in the goodness of God even if we don’t have all the answers perfectly. For by the way you describe biblical ethics, you give me the impression that the god of Calvinism could be good if that is what is described in the Bible.

In fact, many today would just shut their heart off or bury their moral compass and be a blind following robot of whatever they believe the Bible says no matter what evil one must swallow. That’s the problem I have with what many Christians believe today when it comes to their biblical ethics. They cannot discern between good and evil (Which is the meat of the Word) (See: Hebrews 5:14).

God uses sinners in all kinds of ways. Have you not considered the hate-filled, murderer Saul/Paul who God converted and made the greatest Apostle to ever live? (debatably) He hunted down and murdered Christians prior to God's choosing and transforming him.

Past tense. Saul was a persecutor of Christians. If a person is obviously changed, they will not remain in their dark and evil ways. So I have no problem with this and it does not relate to Christians blindly thinking God told Hosea to marry a prostitute or God commending Rahab in that she lied.

If God told Hosea to marry a prostitute, there was a reason for it. Again, you are implying that a prophet of God married a harlot because he wanted to and nobody is defending God about it. That is irreverence for a chosen prophet of God, which is irreverence for all that he wrote in the Bible and it is irreverence for the Bible's presentation of him. Which, ... is an irreverence for God.

You actually should not even need a Bible verse to tell you harlotry or whoredom is wrong.

If you read even the New Testament, you would know God is not into condoning whoredom (fornication).
I should not have to quote this verse to you, but here ya go.

Deuteronomy 23:17
“There shall be no whore of the daughters of Israel, nor a sodomite of the sons of Israel.”

So God telling Hosea to marry a prostitute is impossible.

1 Corinthians 6:15 says:
“Know ye not that your bodies are the members of Christ? shall I then take the members of Christ, and make them the members of an harlot? God forbid.”

This means that the NLT, BSB, ISV are wrong for rendering Hosea 1:2 as saying, “marry a prostitute.”
The trusted ole King James Bible does not say this. It is referring to how God is telling Hosea to marry a woman of a people who are into idolatry. It does not mean she worships idols or that she is a prostitute.

Do you know what an amoral person is, or a sociopath is?

An amoral person is the kind of person who shows no concern about whether behavior is morally right or wrong.
I would consider a person who leans towards being amoral or sociopathic if they cannot recognize basic morality in knowing why it would be wrong of God to contradict Himself in regards to harlotry.

Many today just chock it up to God can do whatever He wants. No. God is good.

You have a very strange angle on the Bible and, personally, I don't like your perspective on any of it. Not just because it's different than mine, but because I find it to be very arrogant and irreverent under the surface.

Standing up for what is right is not arrogance. I realize that I am nothing and Christ is everything.

In one breath you say the KJB is perfect. In another, you strongly imply that it has misrepresented God, .... or whatever it is you are trying to say.

No. Lack of clarity of information does not make something imperfect. That’s illogical. Jesus spoke in parables. That does not mean that the lack of clarity of information given equates with imperfection. Jesus was perfect, and He spoke perfectly, and His words were perfect when He gave His parables and yet not everyone understood Him in what He was trying to say in those parables.

To be honest, I'm not even convinced you know what it is you are really trying to say.

The point of this thread is two fold.

#1. It’s trying to figure out more in detail what happened involving Rahab and the two spies (and her deception) so as to reconcile it better with James 2:25.
#2. It’s a test to see if other believers even have a standard and consistent understanding on basic morality (Which is originally hardwired into us and taught in the Bible). But I believe people can bury their moral compass whereby they can lean towards being an amoral person (without them even realizing it). The solution? They need to repent (i.e. seek forgiveness of their sinful ways by way of prayer to the Lord Jesus Christ with a godly sorrow).

I think you just want to be acknowledged for knowing more about the Bible than others or something, but your ploy just isn't panning out.

If I wanted recognition I would post my name, and my picture, and tell everyone to come to my church, and bow the knee and kiss the ring.
But I am the opposite of that. I am nothing, and it is Christ who is everything. I plant seeds, and another waters, but it is God who gives the increase. Jesus deserves all the praise and glory.

Good luck with it and God bless.

Thank you, and may God bless you in the name of Jesus Christ.

 

[EloyCraft]

Yet, Revelation 21:8 says all liars will have their part in the Lake of Fire. John 8:44 says the devil is the father of lies.

If someone was going to kill my neighbor, and I could stop it by killing the killer but didn't because God said thou shalt not kill. That's wrong.
Now if I could stop it but didn't because lying is a sin...c'mon that would be pathetic

 

[EloyCraft]

Someone who would risk their life to protect another isn't a liar even if they had to lie to protect them.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

Quote the text where you believe he lied and lets address it. I am not going to talk about hearsay of what you think the text said. You no doubt are reading something into the text that is not there.

At Genesis 12:10-13 Abraham led Pharaoh and his people to believe that Sarah was only his wife by telling his wife Sarah to tell Pharoah and his people that she was only his wife.