Yes, it kind of reminds me of David when he pretended to be insane so the Philistines would not bother him. That was not considered a bad thing for him to lie or pretend. Then we have Abraham, who passed off Sarah as his sister...Hmmm.
Did God commend or approve of Rahab’s lie?
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I don’t think a Christian who has reached a state of overcoming sin in this life is going to boast in themselves but they are going to boast in Jesus Christ (Who is God). So those who seek to add memes to suggest that I am seeking to pat myself on the back are simply misguided about what I actually believe the Bible teaches and or they are seeking to throw around unfounded ad hominems. I am aware that the moment that I think I am something I am nothing (See: Galatians 6:3).
You said, I quote:
“It’s amazing how many think God looks at them and thinks they are amazing people.”
~ Eternally Grateful.By statements like this it makes me wonder if you actually read and believe your own Bible.
Again, read the below Scripture and tell me what you think it says:
Job 1:8
“And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?”
Was God boasting in Job’s conduct?
How about this one?
Matthew 25:21
”His lord said unto him, Well done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.”
And what about this one?
1 Peter 3:12
“For the eyes of the Lord are over the righteous, and his ears are open unto their prayers: but the face of the Lord is against them that do evil.”
You also suggest that any believer who believes in living righteously in conduct shows that they have a lack of repentance. Can you please demonstrate that idea with Scripture? Please keep in mind Luke 18:9-14 needs to be balanced with other verses like John 5:14, John 8:11, Matthew 12:41, and Jonah 3:6-10.
In the Old Testament God commanded the taking of life of pagan nations because the pagan nations sought to destroy the Israelites and because God needed to show that sin will be punished, as well. Revelation says all liars will have their part in the Lake of Fire and so if Rahab did lie, should we have sought forgiveness of such of sin with the LORD (either generally or specifically in coming to the LORD for salvation in being saved by His grace). Most Christians today believe you can sin and still be saved and so the idea that Rahab lying is not all that big of a deal to them. Of course we are living in the last days. So many cannot see what is plainly written in God’s Word.
Again, if God condemns lying in His Word, then it impossible for God to commend somebody for lying. What I believe God was commending Rahab for was her faith and not her lying (even if she did lie). The problem is that many Christians today have a skewed view of God's people in that they justified sin when this is simply not the case. Granted, you and or others are not going to use the words "justify sin" but that simply is the reality in light of God's Word, though. For if God commended Rahab for lying, then imagine what a Christian today can do if they believe that way.
David pretended to be insane…? How did I miss THAT? Ive actually done that too, so I need to go find it! I used to have to drive a deposit to the banks after hours bin from the bar and restaurant I worked at. I would act crazy if I saw someone coming down the sidewalk. I would yell and jerk my body and hit myself. Lol. Every single time, they crossed to the other side of the street and I got back in my car and left!
Edit: found it. Never noted it believe it or not.It’s exactly what I did…!
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The Bible has to be read in context to the rest of the Bible. If we were to just take isolated passages in the Bible and apply them at random to our lives, we could end up wanting to go and chop off people's heads who are defying the living God (like Goliath did). However, this is simply not the case because the New Testament teaches we are to turn the other cheek and love our enemies.
So I don't think David faking insanity is applicable to the New Covenant or New Testament. In a sense, David lied by his acting insane when in reality he was not really insane at all but a sane person. Again, God warns that all liars will have their part in the Lake of Fire in Revelation 21:8. I do believe David repented of this particular sin (even though Scripture does not specifically mention that he did). This just has to be the case because God cannot agree with a person's sin. A person has to repent of sin or they will perish (Just as Jesus warned us).
I haven't read through every reply here, so someone else may have already pointed this out. It seems the context should begin from verse 1. Why did the two spies go into this particular house? It seems to me that by His Divine Providence, God orchestrated all that came to pass in Jericho that day. The spies were sent to Rahab's house, because God knew all that would come to pass that day, and that Rahab, as God's faithful servant would do without fearing what God had ordained, and in doing so, she, and her whole family would be saved.
Joshua 2:1 (KJV) And Joshua the son of Nun sent out of Shittim two men to spy secretly, saying, Go view the land, even Jericho. And they went, and came into an harlot's house, named Rahab, and lodged there.
The context shows that Rahab trusted God before the spies came to her for help. Rahab let the men down and knew which way they were going, because she told them to get into the mountains and hide there for three days.
Joshua 2:8-21 (KJV) And before they were laid down, she came up unto them upon the roof; And she said unto the men, I know that the LORD hath given you the land, and that your terror is fallen upon us, and that all the inhabitants of the land faint because of you. For we have heard how the LORD dried up the water of the Red sea for you, when ye came out of Egypt; and what ye did unto the two kings of the Amorites, that were on the other side Jordan, Sihon and Og, whom ye utterly destroyed. And as soon as we had heard these things, our hearts did melt, neither did there remain any more courage in any man, because of you: for the LORD your God, he is God in heaven above, and in earth beneath. Now therefore, I pray you, swear unto me by the LORD, since I have shewed you kindness, that ye will also shew kindness unto my father's house, and give me a true token: And that ye will save alive my father, and my mother, and my brethren, and my sisters, and all that they have, and deliver our lives from death. And the men answered her, Our life for yours, if ye utter not this our business. And it shall be, when the LORD hath given us the land, that we will deal kindly and truly with thee. Then she let them down by a cord through the window: for her house was upon the town wall, and she dwelt upon the wall. And she said unto them, Get you to the mountain, lest the pursuers meet you; and hide yourselves there three days, until the pursuers be returned: and afterward may ye go your way. And the men said unto her, We will be blameless of this thine oath which thou hast made us swear. Behold, when we come into the land, thou shalt bind this line of scarlet thread in the window which thou didst let us down by: and thou shalt bring thy father, and thy mother, and thy brethren, and all thy father's household, home unto thee. And it shall be, that whosoever shall go out of the doors of thy house into the street, his blood shall be upon his head, and we will be guiltless: and whosoever shall be with thee in the house, his blood shall be on our head, if any hand be upon him. And if thou utter this our business, then we will be quit of thine oath which thou hast made us to swear. And she said, According unto your words, so be it. And she sent them away, and they departed: and she bound the scarlet line in the window.
I don't believe the discussion should be did or did not Rahab commit sin by lying. I believe the discussion should center around the Providence of the Almighty Whose will is always accomplished according to His plans and good pleasure.
Joshua 2:1 (KJV) And Joshua the son of Nun sent out of Shittim two men to spy secretly, saying, Go view the land, even Jericho. And they went, and came into an harlot's house, named Rahab, and lodged there.
The context shows that Rahab trusted God before the spies came to her for help. Rahab let the men down and knew which way they were going, because she told them to get into the mountains and hide there for three days.
Joshua 2:8-21 (KJV) And before they were laid down, she came up unto them upon the roof; And she said unto the men, I know that the LORD hath given you the land, and that your terror is fallen upon us, and that all the inhabitants of the land faint because of you. For we have heard how the LORD dried up the water of the Red sea for you, when ye came out of Egypt; and what ye did unto the two kings of the Amorites, that were on the other side Jordan, Sihon and Og, whom ye utterly destroyed. And as soon as we had heard these things, our hearts did melt, neither did there remain any more courage in any man, because of you: for the LORD your God, he is God in heaven above, and in earth beneath. Now therefore, I pray you, swear unto me by the LORD, since I have shewed you kindness, that ye will also shew kindness unto my father's house, and give me a true token: And that ye will save alive my father, and my mother, and my brethren, and my sisters, and all that they have, and deliver our lives from death. And the men answered her, Our life for yours, if ye utter not this our business. And it shall be, when the LORD hath given us the land, that we will deal kindly and truly with thee. Then she let them down by a cord through the window: for her house was upon the town wall, and she dwelt upon the wall. And she said unto them, Get you to the mountain, lest the pursuers meet you; and hide yourselves there three days, until the pursuers be returned: and afterward may ye go your way. And the men said unto her, We will be blameless of this thine oath which thou hast made us swear. Behold, when we come into the land, thou shalt bind this line of scarlet thread in the window which thou didst let us down by: and thou shalt bring thy father, and thy mother, and thy brethren, and all thy father's household, home unto thee. And it shall be, that whosoever shall go out of the doors of thy house into the street, his blood shall be upon his head, and we will be guiltless: and whosoever shall be with thee in the house, his blood shall be on our head, if any hand be upon him. And if thou utter this our business, then we will be quit of thine oath which thou hast made us to swear. And she said, According unto your words, so be it. And she sent them away, and they departed: and she bound the scarlet line in the window.
I don't believe the discussion should be did or did not Rahab commit sin by lying. I believe the discussion should center around the Providence of the Almighty Whose will is always accomplished according to His plans and good pleasure.
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I don’t believe Rahab initially trusted God when she encountered the two spies. She feared God and what He did, but that is not exactly trust yet. She believed that He was the true God but that is no trust in God yet. She feared God and desired mercy from God’s people because of the kindness she believed she showed towards them (in protecting them).
As for whether we should discuss if Rahab committed sin or not: Well, again, I don’t think the text is solid case either way. But there are many people who use the story of Rahab as a justification to lie in certain circumstances. Is lying justified if it is done to protect life? I cannot truly answer that fully. But I know God does not want us to lie. The story of Rahab should not be used as an excuse to sin.
Oh my, what a picture I have in my head right now, hahaha!! There were a couple years of Friday 4 A.M. money drops...NOBODY on the streets so, after cleaning the bar while listening to really loud music on the Juke Box, I'd sneak out the back door where I had my car parked very close to....nary a person approached me in all that time. I must have been nuts!!! You too, oh, but you WERE!
So you don't believe that God Providentially guides and directs what shall come to pass according to His Divine will? The Bible says "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shall be saved." I agree, Rahab believed the God of Israel was the true God, and for that reason God used her to accomplish the task for which she was assigned.
BELIEVE -
Strong's Greek Dictionary
4100. πιστεύω pisteuo (pisteúō)
Search for G4100 in KJVSL; in KJV.
πιστεύω pisteúō, pist-yoo'-o - from G4102; to have faith (in, upon, or with respect to, a person or thing), i.e. credit; by implication, to entrust (especially one's spiritual well-being to Christ):—believe(-r), commit (to trust), put in trust with.
I don't believe the story of Rahab should be used as an excuse for lying. But I do not doubt that Rahab indeed did lie in accordance to the will of God to protect the spies and overthrow Jericho according to His Divine Providence.
I don't think of it as ridiculous, perhaps you can explain why you feel it is ridiculous?
My guess is that Stunned perhaps sees contradiction. On the one hand, we all know that all liars have their place in the burning lake and on the other hand, God compelled Rahab TO lie? I could be off base here so...I suppose we will wait to see what Stunned really means by that...
I would lie my behind off to save someones life who belongs to God. Yep, I would even lie to my government if it wanted to kill a man of God. I don’t think I’d be thrown in the lake of fire for it either. I might be tried for treason I guess but…I would lie and hide them.
I think the Life of a man of God is a More weighty matter than me lying to an evil man or government who is trying to kill a man of God.
God looks at the heart. I’m glad He will judge me rather than y’all camel Swallowing knuckleheads!
So if believers can lie to save lives, then what else can believers do? The idea of course is would you beat up helpless people in a hospital bed, or random poor people on the street and or become a porn star or drug addict if it would save lives? Where is the line drawn? What sins would you not do to save life? Why does Revelation 21:8 get a free pass?
Revelation 21:8 says,
“But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.”
Who is the father of lies according to Scripture?
“…he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.” (John 8:44) (KJB).
Jesus (Who is God) has nothing of the prince of this world (Satan) in Him.
“Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me.” (John 14:30) (KJB).
Revelation 21:8 says,
“But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.”
Who is the father of lies according to Scripture?
“…he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.” (John 8:44) (KJB).
Jesus (Who is God) has nothing of the prince of this world (Satan) in Him.
“Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me.” (John 14:30) (KJB).
So you believe God made Rahab to lie in accordance with His good will?
While God has a permissive will (in that He allows people to make their own choices), that does not mean He desired Rahab to lie as a part of His good will for her life. God is good, and He does not want people to sin.
Psalms 7:11 says God is angry at the wicked every day.
So why would God be angry at the wicked if His own people can break that very standard?
Also, if Rahab was allowed to lie, then why couldn’t another believer use the story of Rahab to lie themselves? It sounds like a form of morality that is not consistent. Are you saying that lying is okay when it comes to saving life only? What other sins can you do to save life? Would you and your family take the mark of the beast and or worship him to save the life of your children?
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Have you never heard of how God uses evil to accomplish His purposes?
Genesis 45:5-8 (KJV) Now therefore be not grieved, nor angry with yourselves, that ye sold me hither: for God did send me before you to preserve life. For these two years hath the famine been in the land: and yet there are five years, in the which there shall neither be earing nor harvest. And God sent me before you to preserve you a posterity in the earth, and to save your lives by a great deliverance. So now it was not you that sent me hither, but God: and he hath made me a father to Pharaoh, and lord of all his house, and a ruler throughout all the land of Egypt.
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
We would hide them and NEVER tell where they were hidden . YES INDEED MY FRIEND .
The lambs would not surrender other lambs unto the govts . I would gladly hide folks
and refuse to say a word about where they were . Thats right my friend .
I am 100% aware of the story of Joseph and how God used the evil of Joseph’s brothers and turned it around for a great purpose for good in the end. This is not new to me. I am also aware that the evil that men did to Jesus Christ was also for a greater plan for good that was for the salvation of mankind. But God taking something that is bad and using it for a greater good does not mean God approved of the evil that Jospeh’s brothers did. Nor does it mean God approved of men sinning as a part of making the cross to happen. Remember, Jesus told the Father to forgive them for they know not what they do, as well. Each person will answer for their own sins against God. If this is not the case, then there would be no Judgment. When Scripture says in Isaiah 45:7 that God creates evil he is not taking about creating the forces of darkness and sin or the devil out of thin air. It is talking about situations of calamity or misfortune from man’s perspective. There is no darkness in God (1 John 1:5). God is good and Holy. He is not in the way that you believe of Him.
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