I've come across many who insist you must obey the law/commandments to remain justified before God. I went to a church once to please a friend. I saw more flagrant sin in that church than in any church I had ever been to in over five decades. And, in that church they constantly stressed ''You must obey the ten commandments'' Someone who believed you must obey all possible torah told me thoughts were not covered by the law. In my experience, those who constantly stress continued justification of obeying the law, have a very shallow understanding of what the law demands. They are safer being in ignorance, for otherwise they would be preaching a message they know they do not even try and attain to in their own lives. And as Jesus said: The measure you use to judge others will be used to judge you Matt7:2
Did God commend or approve of Rahab’s lie?
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Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
you cant get out of your own way. Its all you. You talk about me admitting I can;t live up to Gods standard. I guess that means you think you can.
My friend Gods standard is perfection.. You need to repent..Because you can not live up to his standard either. Until you confess that fact. All you have is your own righteousness.
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
Their problem is they water down Gods law. They have the “big sins” murder, drunkedness and drugs” But like the pharisees, they can’t see and ignore their own sin. And attack others who admit they can’t live up to Gods standard and look down on them
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The problem you are facing is Romans 8:13. You are saying if I don’t put to death the misdeeds of the body by the Spirit, I will still live (live eternally). But that is contrary to what Romans 8:13 says. Romans 8:13 says if you put to death the misdeeds of the body by the Spirit, you will live. Romans 8:13 says that if you live after the flesh, you will die. What is flesh in this verse? The word flesh is justifying sin, and or trying to be justified by keeping the 613 Laws of Moses (or some aspect of the Law of Moses that does not apply anymore like circumcision or the Sabbath). For Galatians 2:18 says, “For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor.”
Try re-reading Ephesians 4:17-32, and Ephesians 5.
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I've never understood how any christian can water down God's laws to a place they believe they fully obey them. I have never been able to do that myself. Nor have I ever felt I have the right to demand of others what I do not demand of myself. For me, such a thing would be abhorrent
Sanctification is a process. God understands that many of his saints may not go from zero to hero overnight. But that does not relinquish our responsibility in following after holiness without which no man shall see the Lord (Hebrews 12:14). To encourage others to abide in the Sanctification Process to live a holy life being a part of God’s plan of salvation is biblical. 2 Thessalonians 2:13 says God has chosen you to salvation through Sanctification of the Spirit and a belief of the truth. Galatians 6:8-9 talks about how we are to sow to the Spirit and reap everlasting life by doing so and this sowing to the Spirit is defined as “well doing.” We are to reap everlasting life if we faint not. 2 Corinthians 7:1 says let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit perfecting holiness in the fear of God. Philippians 2:12 says work your own salvation with fear and trembling. The idea here is to preach Sanctification as a part of salvation because that is what the Bible teaches. It’s putting away and fighting against sin rather than justifying sin under God’s grace (Which is what your camp does). Jude 1:4 warns against turning God’s grace into a license for immorality. Yes, I have ran into many saying that believers don’t practice sin, but then they turn around and use 1 John 1:8 as an excuse to sin, or they say that believers can commit suicide and still be saved or they say that a believer who goes prodigal into a lifestyle of sin is still saved.
Jesus says strive to enter the straight gate (Luke 13:24).
Are you really striving to enter the straight gate with your belief?
Protestant Belief Alone Salvationism (that makes room for a person to sin and still be saved on some level) is the second largest branch of Christianity with close to 1 billion adherents. It surely is not the narrow way. The narrow way is following God’s Word says. But most today just let their preachers tell them what the Bible says when they should just read and believe the Bible with the help of the Spirit. Most just clap their hands at the preacher’s words on grace when they don’t know that grace can be set aside, etcetera.
For example: Do you speak against such passages like 1 Peter 4:1-2? Or do you believe this passage at face value? Most in your camp speak against this verse by either speaking worldly wisdom and or by trying to explain this passage away.
You wrote:
‘’Paul said we are not under the Law (Romans 6:14). This would be the Old Law or the 613 Laws of Moses as a whole or package deal because Paul many times refers in context to the Old Law (when he condemns the law or works in a generic sense), and because Paul says he is under the Law(s) of Christ (1 Corinthians 9:21).’’
And:
‘’Jesus says if we keep my commandments you shall abide in my love (John 15:10). We need to abide in Jesus to be saved.’’
1 John 5:12 says, He that has the Son, has life, and he that does not have the Son does not have life. Eternal life is not a super power granted to you. Only Christ alone has immortality (1 Timothy 6:16). Thus, you need to abide in Christ to have life. Abiding in Christ is conditional.
And:
‘’A slave to sin will not abide in the house forever (John 8:34-35).’’
And then, in response to someone telling you they will never live up to God’s standards, you respond with Isaiah26:10
So to sum up. Your belief is, Christians are under the law of Christ, therefore they must obey Christ’s commands to remain justified before God. If we keep Christ’s commands we abide in his love, and we need to abide in Jesus to be saved. If a person is a slave to sin they will not abide in His house forever. And, if a person tells you they will never live up to God’s standards you dismiss it as an unacceptable statement, quoting the following:
Let grace be shown to the wicked,
Yet he will not learn righteousness;
In the land of uprightness he will deal unjustly,
And will not behold the majesty of the Lord. Isaiah26:10 NKJV
You have a problem don’t you, for you do not even try and obey each and every command of Christ yourself-if you are an honest person you would admit it. So you do not even try and live up to God’s standards, therefore, for consistency, you accept Isaiah26:10 applies to you I presume. If you are under a law for justification, you have to perfectly obey it to remain justified(Gal3:10&11) If you break one of God’s laws you break them all(James2:10) Yet you do not even try and fully obey the law you believe you are justified by obeying do you. As you do not even try and obey all of Christ’s commands yourself, you must be a slave to sin according to the biblical definition of sin which is transgression of the law, for you are constantly breaking the law. 1John3:4. Therefore, according to your statements, you cannot abide in God’s house forever. No one gets to choose which of God’s laws they follow and which they do not even try and follow if they want to remain justified by obeying them.
According to your understanding of the bible, you are condemned aren’t you? Or, does your teaching only apply to others and not to you yourself?
@Daydreamer
First, you did not really explain the verses I put forth to you. You simply ignored them.
Second, my life is not the standard. God’s Word is the standard (Regardless of my life). A believer should strive to obey God’s Word (See: Romans 10:17). My position is the biblical one that really leads a person to wanting to obey God in everything because it is not only a part of living by faith, but their soul is on the line. In your view: Obedience is merely optional because you are saved by a belief alone in Jesus (regardless if you obey or not or if you somewhat obey i.e. exhibit some fruit while also doing evil or sin). Remember, God told Abraham to sacrifice his son. Was Abraham condemned by God until he obeyed this command? Was God saying that Abraham was abiding in death until he did this? No. But did Abraham fulfill that command? No. Abraham sought to obey God by faith. That’s what God was looking for. Faith. Believing in doing what God says and doing what it took to make that happen. Abraham did not just run immediately to sacrifice Isaac within seconds of hearing God tell him to do so. Abraham traveled and took Isaac to a place to do this. Abraham’s heart was one of obedience to his faith (Unlike yours that seeks to not worry about God’s commands all that much because you are saved by a belief alone in Jesus).
Three, the question you propose is that a believer must be obeying all 400 plus commands in the New Testament since day one otherwise they are disobedient to God and they are not saved (Therefore it is Belief Alone Salvationism). Show me a verse whereby a believer must be obeying all of Christ’s commands perfectly in the New Testament from day one of their walk with God so as to be saved then you have an argument that you can win here. You assume God does not give believers time to study His Word and to know about His commands and to learn how to apply them over the course of their life. Granted, a believer should strive to obey all of the Lord’s commands as soon as possible and or as soon as they can do so with the help of God. But we see verses like 2 Corinthians 7:1 that says let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit perfecting holiness in the fear of God. So what happens if you don’t perfect holiness in the fear of God? It does not sound like one is saved if they are not fearing God and they are not perfecting holiness in their life. In fact, that is the case because Hebrews 12:14 says follow after holiness without which no man shall see the Lord. You don’t believe that verse. You also don’t believe Hebrews 12:15 that says, we are to exercise oversight in helping others so that they don’t fail the grace of God on this matter (i.e. following after holiness). What does that look like? I believe loving God and loving your neighbor are the basic foundations of our obedience to God in living out our faith after we are saved by God’s grace. Your bar is Sinless Perfection or obedience to all of God’s commands in the New Testament since after one is saved by God’s grace or they are toast and therefore the only other alternative is to turn God’s grace into a license for immorality on some level by a belief alone in Jesus (Jude 1:4). But God’s grace teaches us to deny ungodliness and that we should live righteously and godly in this present world (Titus 2:11-12). If holy living is optional, then God’s grace would not really teach us to live godly in this present world. You could just sin and still be saved by a belief like that of demons (who know that Jesus is the Savior, but they don’t have any good fruit).
Four, Galatians 3:10-11 says,
“For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them. But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.”
What law is Paul speaking about here?
Galatians 3:17 says,
“And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.”
What Law existed 430 years after Abraham?
The 613 Laws of Moses.
Why was Paul even bringing up the Old Law?
Read Acts of the Apostles 15:1, Acts of the Apostles 15:5, Acts of the Apostles 15:24, and then read Galatians 2:3, and Galatians 5:2.
If you read these verses in Acts 15, you would learn that there were certain Jews who thought that Gentile Christians had to first be circumcised to be initially saved and to also keep the Law of Moses (i.e. the 613 as a whole). The council declared that they did not have to do that.
Paul says in Galatians 5:2 that if you seek to be circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing. Meaning, they were thinking they had to be circumcised in order to be initially saved. This is why Paul is speaking negatively of the law and works in many of his letters. Paul is fighting against those who were trying to make the Old Law the entrance gate and foundation of their salvation instead of first being saved by God’s grace through faith without works in their Initial Salvation. So you fail to take into context of Galatians 3:10-11. It’s talking about those who are seeking to be circumcised in order to be saved or trying to keep the Old Law to be saved. What you fail to catch in Galatians 3:10-11 that it says that the just shall LIVE by faith. What is one of the ways faith is described in the Bible? Hebrews 11:7. By faith… Noah prepared an ark to the saving of his house. Building an ark takes a lot of work. But Scripture says that Abraham did this by faith. It’s a part of his faith. That is how he lived out his faith. The just shall LIVE by faith. Faith is how we have access to God’s grace (Romans 5:2). Faith is how we are justified and have peace with God (Romans 5:1). Faith starts off as a belief alone in Jesus as the Savior (John 1:12), and the gospel message (1 Corinthians 15:1-2), but it does not remain that way in the faith. You have funny idea about the faith that is not biblical.
Five, James 2:10 is in context to the Royal Law in loving your neighbor (the second greatest commandment), and not just any random New Testament command. In addition, your case is for disobedience under God’s grace by using this verse. But disobedience while under God’s grace is not in any way what James was talking about in context. In fact, he was making the exact opposite case by saying that faith without works is dead and that we are justified by works and not by faith alone. Note: I know your camp makes the false claim that this justification in James 2:24 is non-salvific. But James 2:21 says that Abraham was justified by works by offering Isaac upon the altar. In Hebrews 11:17, we learn that it was BY FAITH that Abraham offered Isaac upon the altar. So it was a part of Abraham’s faith in offering up Isaac was called a work in James 2:21. Again, faith is how we have peace with God (Romans 5:1) and faith is how we have access to His grace (Romans 5:2).
Six, you point out how John 8:34-35 is not referring to how the slave to sin will not abide in the house forever (even though that is what it says) because you believe sin is the breaking of the Law (1 John 3:4), and therefore you must conclude that it must be perfect obedience to all of God’s commands from day one of your service to God or your toast and therefore, it must be solely by a belief in Jesus for salvation and or believing the gospel message alone in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4. Note: Many in the Protestant camp say this is believing in the finished work of the cross but this is merely their own invented term not found in the Bible. Anyways, you did not give us the real meaning or explanation behind John 8:34-35 in what it says. The plain reading of the text is saying that the slave to sin will not abide in the house forever and this lines up perfectly with what we read in Matthew 13:41-42 where Christ sends forth His angels and they gather out of HIS Kingdom all who do iniquity and they are cast into the furnace of fire (i.e. the Lake of fire). This is a reality of the Scriptures you have to face (Whether you do so now in this life or later when you face the Lord).
Seven, not all sin in the Bible is mentioned as condemning our souls. 1 John 5:16 says that there is a sin not unto death. In fact, Jesus describes the difference of punishment of sins in earthly courts vs. a sin that leads to hellfire (Matthew 5:22).
First, you did not really explain the verses I put forth to you. You simply ignored them.
Second, my life is not the standard. God’s Word is the standard (Regardless of my life). A believer should strive to obey God’s Word (See: Romans 10:17). My position is the biblical one that really leads a person to wanting to obey God in everything because it is not only a part of living by faith, but their soul is on the line. In your view: Obedience is merely optional because you are saved by a belief alone in Jesus (regardless if you obey or not or if you somewhat obey i.e. exhibit some fruit while also doing evil or sin). Remember, God told Abraham to sacrifice his son. Was Abraham condemned by God until he obeyed this command? Was God saying that Abraham was abiding in death until he did this? No. But did Abraham fulfill that command? No. Abraham sought to obey God by faith. That’s what God was looking for. Faith. Believing in doing what God says and doing what it took to make that happen. Abraham did not just run immediately to sacrifice Isaac within seconds of hearing God tell him to do so. Abraham traveled and took Isaac to a place to do this. Abraham’s heart was one of obedience to his faith (Unlike yours that seeks to not worry about God’s commands all that much because you are saved by a belief alone in Jesus).
Three, the question you propose is that a believer must be obeying all 400 plus commands in the New Testament since day one otherwise they are disobedient to God and they are not saved (Therefore it is Belief Alone Salvationism). Show me a verse whereby a believer must be obeying all of Christ’s commands perfectly in the New Testament from day one of their walk with God so as to be saved then you have an argument that you can win here. You assume God does not give believers time to study His Word and to know about His commands and to learn how to apply them over the course of their life. Granted, a believer should strive to obey all of the Lord’s commands as soon as possible and or as soon as they can do so with the help of God. But we see verses like 2 Corinthians 7:1 that says let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit perfecting holiness in the fear of God. So what happens if you don’t perfect holiness in the fear of God? It does not sound like one is saved if they are not fearing God and they are not perfecting holiness in their life. In fact, that is the case because Hebrews 12:14 says follow after holiness without which no man shall see the Lord. You don’t believe that verse. You also don’t believe Hebrews 12:15 that says, we are to exercise oversight in helping others so that they don’t fail the grace of God on this matter (i.e. following after holiness). What does that look like? I believe loving God and loving your neighbor are the basic foundations of our obedience to God in living out our faith after we are saved by God’s grace. Your bar is Sinless Perfection or obedience to all of God’s commands in the New Testament since after one is saved by God’s grace or they are toast and therefore the only other alternative is to turn God’s grace into a license for immorality on some level by a belief alone in Jesus (Jude 1:4). But God’s grace teaches us to deny ungodliness and that we should live righteously and godly in this present world (Titus 2:11-12). If holy living is optional, then God’s grace would not really teach us to live godly in this present world. You could just sin and still be saved by a belief like that of demons (who know that Jesus is the Savior, but they don’t have any good fruit).
Four, Galatians 3:10-11 says,
“For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them. But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.”
What law is Paul speaking about here?
Galatians 3:17 says,
“And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.”
What Law existed 430 years after Abraham?
The 613 Laws of Moses.
Why was Paul even bringing up the Old Law?
Read Acts of the Apostles 15:1, Acts of the Apostles 15:5, Acts of the Apostles 15:24, and then read Galatians 2:3, and Galatians 5:2.
If you read these verses in Acts 15, you would learn that there were certain Jews who thought that Gentile Christians had to first be circumcised to be initially saved and to also keep the Law of Moses (i.e. the 613 as a whole). The council declared that they did not have to do that.
Paul says in Galatians 5:2 that if you seek to be circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing. Meaning, they were thinking they had to be circumcised in order to be initially saved. This is why Paul is speaking negatively of the law and works in many of his letters. Paul is fighting against those who were trying to make the Old Law the entrance gate and foundation of their salvation instead of first being saved by God’s grace through faith without works in their Initial Salvation. So you fail to take into context of Galatians 3:10-11. It’s talking about those who are seeking to be circumcised in order to be saved or trying to keep the Old Law to be saved. What you fail to catch in Galatians 3:10-11 that it says that the just shall LIVE by faith. What is one of the ways faith is described in the Bible? Hebrews 11:7. By faith… Noah prepared an ark to the saving of his house. Building an ark takes a lot of work. But Scripture says that Abraham did this by faith. It’s a part of his faith. That is how he lived out his faith. The just shall LIVE by faith. Faith is how we have access to God’s grace (Romans 5:2). Faith is how we are justified and have peace with God (Romans 5:1). Faith starts off as a belief alone in Jesus as the Savior (John 1:12), and the gospel message (1 Corinthians 15:1-2), but it does not remain that way in the faith. You have funny idea about the faith that is not biblical.
Five, James 2:10 is in context to the Royal Law in loving your neighbor (the second greatest commandment), and not just any random New Testament command. In addition, your case is for disobedience under God’s grace by using this verse. But disobedience while under God’s grace is not in any way what James was talking about in context. In fact, he was making the exact opposite case by saying that faith without works is dead and that we are justified by works and not by faith alone. Note: I know your camp makes the false claim that this justification in James 2:24 is non-salvific. But James 2:21 says that Abraham was justified by works by offering Isaac upon the altar. In Hebrews 11:17, we learn that it was BY FAITH that Abraham offered Isaac upon the altar. So it was a part of Abraham’s faith in offering up Isaac was called a work in James 2:21. Again, faith is how we have peace with God (Romans 5:1) and faith is how we have access to His grace (Romans 5:2).
Six, you point out how John 8:34-35 is not referring to how the slave to sin will not abide in the house forever (even though that is what it says) because you believe sin is the breaking of the Law (1 John 3:4), and therefore you must conclude that it must be perfect obedience to all of God’s commands from day one of your service to God or your toast and therefore, it must be solely by a belief in Jesus for salvation and or believing the gospel message alone in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4. Note: Many in the Protestant camp say this is believing in the finished work of the cross but this is merely their own invented term not found in the Bible. Anyways, you did not give us the real meaning or explanation behind John 8:34-35 in what it says. The plain reading of the text is saying that the slave to sin will not abide in the house forever and this lines up perfectly with what we read in Matthew 13:41-42 where Christ sends forth His angels and they gather out of HIS Kingdom all who do iniquity and they are cast into the furnace of fire (i.e. the Lake of fire). This is a reality of the Scriptures you have to face (Whether you do so now in this life or later when you face the Lord).
Seven, not all sin in the Bible is mentioned as condemning our souls. 1 John 5:16 says that there is a sin not unto death. In fact, Jesus describes the difference of punishment of sins in earthly courts vs. a sin that leads to hellfire (Matthew 5:22).
“But I say to you that everyone who continues to be angry with his brother or harbors malice against him shall be guilty before the court; and whoever speaks [contemptuously and insultingly] to his brother, ‘Raca (You empty-headed idiot)!’ shall be guilty before the supreme court (Sanhedrin); and whoever says, ‘You fool!’ shall be in danger of the fiery hell.” (Matthew 5:22) (AMP).
In other words, the words in blue above are implied as “non-death sins” because they are punishment in earthly courts. The words in red above is a “death sin” because it is punishment in hellfire in the afterlife.
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Rather than write long posts, would it not be better for you to show some honesty and humility? When you continually state christians are justified by obeying Christ's commandments, alongside that, admit you yourself do not even try and obey them all.
BTW
You say your life is not the standard. However, Jesus said we should beware of the yeast of the pharisees and saducees which is hypocrisy. So if anyone is preaching a message they do not even try and live up to in their own life, we are to be aware of that, and it would be our duty to make it known
You say your life is not the standard. However, Jesus said we should beware of the yeast of the pharisees and saducees which is hypocrisy. So if anyone is preaching a message they do not even try and live up to in their own life, we are to be aware of that, and it would be our duty to make it known
Please go back and reread more carefully what I actually wrote. It will help to clear up your confusion here.
Nowhere am I saying that you should follow me and or to do specific NT commands that I am not doing. I am saying for us all believers to enter the Sanctification Process of the Spirit to purify themselves in living a holy life (2 Thessalonians 2:13) (Romans 8:13). 2 Corinthians 7:1 says let us cleanse ourselves from ALL filthiness of the flesh and spirit perfecting holiness in the fear of God. So we have to be in the cleansing (washing) process in this life with the intended goal or outcome of overcoming sin and to us eventually obeying God in all things (under Christ’s commands in the NT). Again, you are not really addressing or explaining the verses put forth to you here but you are merely making your own thoughts reign supreme here. Deal with the verses I put forth to you.
You berated someone for saying they could not attain to God's standards. Yet in truth, you do not even try to attain to God's standards do you, so you are finding fault with others, and quoting scripture to them, when you yourself do not even try to attain to God's standards. If that is not hypocrisy, what is? Your problem is, your rigid quoting of the letter leaves you problems. It condemns you, and leaves you preaching am message you cannot attain to in your own life. For the reality is, no one living will faultlessly obey the letter of commands. Not you, not me, nor anyone else
Your confusion is caused by you being unable to see anything other than the letter of commandments. As I have told you, that letter will always condemn you. Paul understood the way to obey Jesus commands: Carry each others burdens (love them) and so FULFILL the law of Christ Gal6:2 The more you love others, the more you will be in line with Jesus teachings. Tell people they must look to individual commands and obey them all to be justified and you condemn yourself
No I didn’t berate anyone for having not perfectly obeyed all 400 plus commands perfectly in the New Testament (Which is what you are claiming).
The idea is willfully sinning.
Hebrews 10:26 says,
“For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,”
Your view is about a belief alone in Jesus to be saved plus nothing else (Which suggests some level of disobedience under God’s grace on some level). There is no real need to strive to obey God in all things.
You said:
No. Your mixed up. Nowhere did I say for others to do specific NT commands that I am not doing myself. I am telling others to abide in the Sanctification Process which is to purify sin out of each other’s lives. Sanctification is a process. It’s different for every believer.
You said:
This is the problem with Protestantism (Note: I am not Catholic or Orthodox; I am merely a Bible Alone Christian who believes all of the Word of God). Anyways, many Protestants falsely think 2 Corinthians 3:6 means that we cannot believe the literal and plain meaning of the New Testament Scriptures when in reality it is talking about that. The letter that kills (as mentioned in 2 Corinthians 3:6) is in reference to the 613 Laws of Moses as a whole or package deal. For one could be stoned by not obeying the Law of Moses (When it was in effect before the time of Jesus).
You said:
You have let your own worldly wisdom or thinking rule your life instead of just believing the Bible. This is not good. I challenge you to go back and look at all of the verses I put forth to you and just believe them at face value. Don’t speak against those verses because the enemy will take those verses out of your heart whereby you cannot believe them.
Of course you condemn yourself if you state a person is justified as believer by obeying Christ's literal commands. As you don't even try to obey many of them, how in the world do you think you can be justified by obeying those commands? In relation to the letter that kills(2Cor3:6) Do you have any idea of Paul's message? It relates to the ten commandments, as I can easily show you from scripture. Why does the letter of the ten commandments kill? Have a read of rom ch7. Saul could not obey the letter of the law concerning the inner man, the law only he and God need know he broke. And neither can you or anyone else obey that letter. Yet you believe those commands are part of NT law that needs to be obeyed to remain justified. Why is your understanding so shallow? As for Heb10:26. When you commit sin, is it not wilfull? Or are you a slave to sin, and cannot stop yourself sinning? You need to understand sin is spoken of in two different ways in the bible
You really do need to post an entire section of scripture, not just one verse which has led you into error:
We who are Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles
Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
17 But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.
18 For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor. Gal2:15-18
Verses 15&16 is Paul stating a man is not justified by works of the law/obeying the law, but by faith in Christ. For by the works of the law, no man shall be justified. Now to you, that is only for initial justification at conversion. However, Paul proves you wrong. He carries on in the next two verses talking about this justification he has previously mentioned. And verses17&18 clearly show it is a justification that takes time to achieve, it is not instantaneous. Justification at conversion is instantaneous, the justification Paul is writing about is not. Verse18 : For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor.
What has Paul sought so hard to destroy? Righteousness/justification of obeying the law.(Rom3:20-22, Rom3:28, Rom10:4, Gal2:21, Gal3:10&11, Eph3:9 etc) Therefore, if he rebuilt that system and sought to justify his Christianity by the works of the law, he would fail and simply prove he was a transgressor/lawbreaker.
For Paul knew, as honest Christians know, you cannot justify your Christianity according to obeying the law, for you will always fall short of the pass mark, which is, 100% perfect obedience, no slip ups! And you most certainly cannot be justified by law where you do not even try to obey law you believe you will be justified by obeying! I wouldn’t care frankly what scripture you put up to try and contradict Paul’s words, it will only show your lack of discernment in understanding his message.
mailmandan
Well-Known Member
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
its amazing how many people think God looks at them and thinks they are amazing people. it shows a true lack of repentanceFor such people it's all about this..
It's kind of funny (in a sad way) that people think it's okay to slaughter the heathens (as happened in Jericho), but lying to them - that would be crossing the line. The situation in Jericho was warfare. The Israelites were at war with those in Jericho. If God commanded the Israelites to kill those dwelling in Jericho, why would lying to them (to save Israelite lives) be such a terrible sin? Rahab was forced to pick a side, and she chose the right one. She might not have served Israel and God with her sword, but she served Israel and God with her tongue and her wits, and was declared righteous for her act of faith.
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