VictoryinJesus
Well-Known Member
- Jan 26, 2017
- 10,560
- 8,412
- 113
- Faith
- Christian
- Country
- United States
Did God commend or approve of Rahab’s lie?
- Thread starter Bible Highlighter
- Start date
-
Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.
You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
If you read my post #2, you would know that I hold to two possibilities and not just one. I also go into explaining in depth after this post. If you don’t accept that possibility that is okay with me. I do hold to the possibility that she may have lied, too. But what I don’t agree with is when folks voted in the poll as to saying “Yes” in that God commended Rahab for lying. God cannot lie, and so He cannot commend anyone for lying. God commended Rahab for her receiving the spies, and sending them out another way, and not for lying (if indeed she did lie).
And the context:
Romans 3:1-8 (NIV)
1 “What advantage, then, is there in being a Jew, or what value is there in circumcision?
2 Much in every way! First of all, the Jews have been entrusted with the very words of God.
3 What if some were unfaithful? Will their unfaithfulness nullify God’s faithfulness?
4 Not at all! Let God be true, and every human being a liar. As it is written:
“So that you may be proved right when you speak and prevail when you judge.”
5 But if our unrighteousness brings out God’s righteousness more clearly, what shall we say? That God is unjust in bringing his wrath on us? (I am using a human argument.)
6 Certainly not! If that were so, how could God judge the world?
7 Someone might argue,
“If my falsehood enhances God’s truthfulness and so increases his glory, why am I still condemned as a sinner?”
8 Why not say—as some slanderously claim that we say—“Let us do evil that good may result”? Their condemnation is just!”
Desire Of All Nations
Well-Known Member
You've defeated your own argument because a person lies to hide the truth.
Hiding the truth does always not mean one is lying. For example: Jesus let the Jews believe their own lie in that they thought He was referring to the religious temple, when He was actually referring to His body when He said “Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.” (John 2:19). So no. Hiding a truth does not mean one is lying. For example: If you refuse to tell somebody your bank account information, you are not lying. Lying is about twisting the truth with one’s words. The devil is the father of lies according to John 8:44. All liars will have their part in the Lake of Fire (Revelation 21:8). Unless of course somebody repents of their lies. Also, God cannot lie. So this means that God could not commend anyone for lying. Granted, God can forgive a person for lying, but I believe they should express sorrow over such a sin.
Last edited:
BARNEY BRIGHT
Well-Known Member
I disagree, the scriptures say,
The king of Jerʹi·cho was told: “Look! Israelite men have come in here tonight to spy out the land.” 3 At that the king of Jerʹi·cho sent word to Raʹhab: “Bring out the men who came and are staying in your house, for they have come to spy out the entire land.”
But the woman took the two men and hid them. Then she said: “Yes, the men came to me, but I did not know where they were from. And at dark when the city gate was about to be closed, the men went out. I do not know where the men went, but if you quickly chase after them, you will catch up with them.”(However, she had taken them up to the roof and hidden them among stalks of flax laid in rows on the roof.) These scriptures clearly show that Rahab when talking to the soldiers said to them that the spies when it had got dark and the city gate was about to be closed the spies had gone out the gate. Rahab told the soldiers this while the whole time the spies were up on her roof hidden under stalks of flax.
The scriptures also show that the soldiers went in the direction of the Jordan at the ford, then after Rahab talked to the spies she let them down by a rope through the window, for her house was on a side of the city wall. In fact, she was dwelling on the wall. Then she said to them: “Go to the mountainous region and hide there for three days, so that those pursuing you may not find you. Then, after your pursuers have come back, you can go on your way.” So you can disagree all you want but the scriptures show that Rahab lied to the soldiers about the spies going out the gate when it was getting dark and the gates were about to close because when
Myself, I don't think people who have been judged by the true God as not deserving life don't deserve the truth. Rahab's people had been judged by God to be put to death and their land taken from them. Also there is a difference between a malicious lie which God always hates and a lie a servant of God tells to protect himself/herself or other servants of the true God. A malicious lie is about hatred and always about hurting someone. A lie that a person tells such as Rahab told was about protecting the servants of the true God. What she said and did was about loving the true God enough that she recognized that YHWH God was the true God and the people that the spies belong to were the true God's people.
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
Wow. Do you really think you impress God? Thats some serious pride their my friend..
God seemed impressed with Job.
“And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?” (Job 1:8).
As for spiritual pride:
Well, disagreeing with the words of Jesus Christ and the doctrine according to godliness is actually about one being proud.
“If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness; He is proud, knowing nothing,” (1 Timothy 6:3-4).
James 4:6 says God resists the proud and gives grace to the humble.
Obeying God after we are saved by God’s grace is not spiritual pride. Sinning or justifying evil is spiritual pride.
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
Your nothing but a modern day pharisee. Thinking you have truth, and thinking you please God proves that.
Michiah-Imla
Well-Known Member
This accusation is erroneously overly used.
Pharisees were guilty of not doing what they taught. Not for teaching the truth.
“…The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat: All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.” (Matthew 23:2-3)
We say and do!
So put the Pharisees accusation on the shelf and use it righteously.
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
May you find the truth of Gods grace and embrace the promise that he has offered all mankind
Well, I have not accepted your unbiblical version of God’s grace and promise.
However, I have received God’s grace and God’s promise (according to Scripture), though.
God’s grace:
Romans 5:2
“By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.”
Believers are saved initially by God’s grace without works:
Ephesians 2:8-9
“For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Not of works, lest any man should boast.”
For how many times have you been quickened or made alive? (See: Ephesians 2:1).
How many times do you receive a gift? (Ephesians 2:8).
Just one time, right? So Ephesians 2:8-9 is primarily talking about being saved (past tense) by God’s grace in context.
In addition, when Paul condemns the Law or works in a generic sense in regards to salvation: We see in most of his letters particular clues that he was fighting against the heresy of which I call, “Circumcision Salvationism.” This false belief was addressed at the Jerusalem council in Acts 15 (See: Acts of the Apostles 15:1, Acts of the Apostles 15:5, Acts of the Apostles 15:24). This false belief basically said that you had to first be circumcised to be initially saved (Which was contrary naturally to being saved by God’s grace without works through faith initially). In Galatians 5: Paul says if you seek to be circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing (Galatians 5:2). Circumcision was a part of the 613 laws of Moses (Which was not a part of the commands of Jesus Christ and His followers for the New Covenant). For the Law has changed (Hebrews 7:12). Paul said we are not under the Law (Romans 6:14). This would be the Old Law or the 613 Laws of Moses as a whole or package deal because Paul many times refers in context to the Old Law (when he condemns the law or works in a generic sense), and because Paul says he is under the Law(s) of Christ (1 Corinthians 9:21).
As for eventual works in our faith:
Well, a person can later be a vain deceiver and deny God by being reprobate unto every good work (See: Titus 1:16).
A believer can deny the faith and be worse than an unbeliever (infidel) by not providing for his family (See: 1 Timothy 5:8).
Paul says, Let our people learn to maintain good works so that they be not unfruitful (See: Titus 3:14).
The unfruitful tree or branch is cut off and cast into the fire (See: Luke 3:8-9, John 15:5-6).
Note: John the Baptist said we are to bring forth fruits worthy of repentance and the axe is laid to the root of the tree and can be cut down and thrown into the fire.
The unprofitable servant is cast into outer darkness where there is weeping and gnashing of teeth (Matthew 25:30).
It’s not automatic to be fruitful. We are told to keep ourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life. (Jude 1:21). Jesus says if we keep my commandments you shall abide in my love (John 15:10). We need to abide in Jesus to be saved.
1 John 5:12 says, He that has the Son, has life, and he that does not have the Son does not have life. Eternal life is not a super power granted to you. Only Christ alone has immortality (1 Timothy 6:16). Thus, you need to abide in Christ to have life. Abiding in Christ is conditional.
More on God’s grace:
Titus 2:11-12
“For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly,
righteously, and godly, in this present world;”
Romans 6:1-2
“What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid. …”
God’s promise:
Hebrews 10:36
“For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.”
So after we have done the will of God, you will receive the promise and not before.
Doing the will of God also includes our living holy in this life according to Scripture.
1 Thessalonians 4:3
“For this is the will of God, even your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication:”
1 Peter 4:19
“Wherefore let them that suffer according to the will of God commit the keeping of their souls to him in well doing, as unto a faithful Creator.”
1 John 2:19
“And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.”
For another example of holy actions tied to the will of God, see Galatians 6:5-7.
You said, I quote:
“You wont be saved because you defeat sin.”
Quote by: Eternally Grateful.
Source.
So then… you treat God’s grace as a license for immorality (Which Jude 1:4 warns us about).
Peter even says that there are false teachers who cannot cease from sin (See: 2 Peter 2:1, and 2 Peter 2:14).
Grace reigns through righteousness (Romans 5:21).
It’s why God’s grace teaches us to deny ungodliness and that we should live righteously and godly in this present world (Titus 2:11-12).
A slave to sin will not abide in the house forever (John 8:34-35). We see an example of this whereby Jesus sends forth his angels to gather out of HIS Kingdom those who do iniquity and they will be cast into the furnace of fire (Matthew 13:41-42). So if you are teaching that you are a slave to sin, then you are teaching contrary to the words of Jesus Christ (See: 1 Timothy 6:3-4).
Side Note:
While faith starts off as a belief alone in Jesus for salvation, it does not remain that way. By faith, Noah prepared an ark to the saving of his household (Hebrews 11:7). In other words, if Noah did not build the Ark, a belief alone would not have saved him. Noah had to continue in his faith just like we do, and that faith including doing the work of faith (1 Thessalonians 1:3) (2 Thessalonians 1:11).
Last edited:
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
thank you for proving me right.
Continue to try to earn the free gift.. You will find out one day that you could not earn it..
When you cry to God about all your works. remember what he will say.
Notice how you did not even address any of the verses I posted. You just made a statement about God’s judgment towards me without really proving your case biblically. Again, the slave to sin will not abide in the house forever (John 8:34-35). Jesus will send forth his angels and gather out of HIS kingdom all who do iniquity and they will be cast into the furnace of fire (Matthew 13:41-42).
Also, how do you ignore the unprofitable servant being cast into outer darkness in Matthew 25:30?
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
Lol.
All anyone has to do is look at the verses you posted and they will easily see how you twist them to support your self righteous works based gospel.
I do not need to respond to them. Once again, They prove that what I said about you was correct. You can;t get out of your own way..
Again, that is your claim and belief that others can easily see your position on this issue involving the verses I presented. Proof is in the pudding. If it is that easy (as you claim), then surely you or somebody else would have done so by now. In fact, in all my ten years of debating this topic with believers online, like you (only a very small few make an attempt to explain away the verses I put forth to them). Why? Because the “Perpetual Belief Alone Proponent” explains the verses away because they don’t like what the Bible says. It’s that simple. So again, the ball is back in your court if you want to truly back up your words. But I am not expecting you to do that because we both know you cannot do so (without you coming up with some odd ball explanation that does not actually fit the actual context or the whole counsel of God’s Word).
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
Yeah they can see my position
I ate the bread from heaven, the flesh and blood. I will never die. never hunger or thirst. I will live forever and have Gods guarantee he will raise me on the last day. Not because I am righteous. Not because I have done works of righteousness. But he saved me by his mercy through the washing and new birth of the Holy Spirit. Not only this, I have the seal of the Spirit. Who is my assurance until I am ressurected on the day of redemption. Unlike you. I am confident of the very thing, that he who BEGAn a good work in me, WILL COMPLETE IT until the day of christ.
My faith is in God. Not in myself. I will never live up to Gods standard. i do not water down the law like you do. And think you will be good enough to earn your salvation.. So I come to the spirit of love and my abba father. WHo strengthens me. And makes me like himself..
So you have like some secret audience that blindly follows you and or a group that agrees with you on this thread right now and yet they are not speaking up?
You said:
When Jesus spoke of His flesh and blood in John 6:54, I believe He was referring back to what He said in the previous two chapters.
John 4:34
“Jesus saith unto them, My meat is to do the will of him that sent me, and to finish his work.”
This was referring to Jesus obeying God the Father.
Matthew 7:21
“Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.”
1 Thessalonians 4:3 (BSB)
“For it is God’s will that you should be holy: You must abstain from sexual immorality;”
You said:
Seems like you need to reread John 8:51 again.
John 8:51 says,
“Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death.”
You said:
Speaking of the last day:
Jesus said,
“He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hathone that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.” (John 12:48).
So if we receive not the words of Jesus, those words will judge us on the last day.
What words do Christians today not receive? Well, when I talk with them, they seem to try to ignore or twist the words of Jesus in Matthew 5:28-30, Matthew 6:15, Matthew 12:37, Matthew 25:31-46, etcetera.
You said:
1 Corinthians 6:9-10
“Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.”
“And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.” (John 5:29).
You said:
Titus 3:5 is in referring to how we were Initially Saved. Read the whole chapter in context and this is obvious.
You said:
When you read verses like Philippians 1:6, you also have to read verses like Philippians 2:12 to get a more well balanced viewpoint.
You said:
Paul said,
“But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.” (1 Corinthians 9:27).
You said:
Whenever I hear statements like this it reminds me of Isaiah 26:10 as rendered in the New King James Version.
You said:
What law are we talking about?
The 613 Laws of Moses? Or the Laws of Christ in the New Testament?
What would be the point of even striving to even obeying God’s laws if they are not relevant to your salvation?
You said:
Perhaps you missed Galatians 6:8-9 in your Bible.
Galatians 6:8-9
8 “For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.
9 And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not.”
You said:
This totally contradicts what you just said previously in that you cannot meet God’s standard. No offense, but this sounds like double speak. One is truly for living holy or they are not for doing that. There is no in between.
Galatians 6:15 (ISV)
“Rather, what matters is being a new creation.”
Ephesians 4:19-20 (BSB)
“Having lost all sense of shame, they have given themselves over to sensuality for the practice of every kind of impurity, with a craving for more. But this is not the way you came to know Christ.
Ephesians 4:21-24 (NKJV)
“if indeed you have heard Him and have been taught by Him, as the truth is in Jesus: that you put off, concerning your former conduct, the old man which grows corrupt according to the deceitful lusts, and be renewed in the spirit of your mind, and that you put on the new man which was created according to God, in true righteousness and holiness.”
Hebrews 12:14-15 (KJB)
“Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord: Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and thereby many be defiled;”
“Rather, what matters is being a new creation.”
Ephesians 4:19-20 (BSB)
“Having lost all sense of shame, they have given themselves over to sensuality for the practice of every kind of impurity, with a craving for more. But this is not the way you came to know Christ.
Ephesians 4:21-24 (NKJV)
“if indeed you have heard Him and have been taught by Him, as the truth is in Jesus: that you put off, concerning your former conduct, the old man which grows corrupt according to the deceitful lusts, and be renewed in the spirit of your mind, and that you put on the new man which was created according to God, in true righteousness and holiness.”
Hebrews 12:14-15 (KJB)
“Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord: Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and thereby many be defiled;”
Similar threads
