Daniels 70-Weeks Timeline

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Davy

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It is blasphemy to use a corrupt translation that paints Jesus as an AC instead of the means of the Atonement.

That is the very false doctrine YOU have been supporting! So point your finger and you have three more fingers pointing back at yourself!

Satan can do nothing without God's permission. I guess you missed that point when you read Job.

Oh, no, I actually teach that idea of how God uses Satan, per the Isaiah 10 chapter.

So I guess your attempts to slander me just ain't workin' out for ya!

Hey, and for those brethren interested in learning about today's many CORRUPT BIBLE TRANSLATIONS (mainly New Testament), go over to the Bible Study section and checkout my scholar notes about it. I betcha old Timothy here is probably using one of those corrupt New Testament versions...

Oldest and Best, Really??
 

Timtofly

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That is the very false doctrine YOU have been supporting! So point your finger and you have three more fingers pointing back at yourself!



Oh, no, I actually teach that idea of how God uses Satan, per the Isaiah 10 chapter.

So I guess your attempts to slander me just ain't workin' out for ya!

Hey, and for those brethren interested in learning about today's many CORRUPT BIBLE TRANSLATIONS (mainly New Testament), go over to the Bible Study section and checkout my scholar notes about it. I betcha old Timothy here is probably using one of those corrupt New Testament versions...

Oldest and Best, Really??
Your the one using them to make your point.

Where is your AC? He is missing in action.
 
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Spiritual Israelite

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Both Amil and Premill claim the 70 weeks are fulfilled before the 1,000 year reign.

So what is the difference?
You obviously are not understanding the point I was making. I was addressing that person's view. If you have a different view then you can just ignore what I was saying since it didn't apply to your particular view.

Amil's 1,000 years is the current sin filled state of the earth.

Premill do not claim sin continues on into the Millennium. At least they should not. They are in error if they claim the 70th week is fulfilled, but not really.
Most Premills would say that sin occurs during the Millennium and a vast majority of Premils would say that sin occurs during Satan's little season. So, it seems that all Premills except you believe that sin will occur after the return of Christ. So, that is why I question their understanding of what the fulfillment of making an end of sins means and why I ask them when they think that will be fulfilled.
 
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covenantee

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Dan 9:27
27 The ruler will make a treaty with the people for a period of one set of seven, but after half this time, he will put an end to the sacrifices and offerings. And as a climax to all his terrible deeds, he will set up a sacrilegious object that causes desecration, until the fate decreed for this defiler is finally poured out on him."

Holy Bible, New Living Translation

Dan 9:27
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many, in one week: and in the half of the week the victim and the sacrifice shall fall: and there shall be in the temple the abomination of desolation: and ihe desolation shall continue even to the consummation, and to the end.

Douay-Rheims

Young's Literal Translation (YLT), acclaimed for literal translation accuracy:

Daniel 9:27
27 And he hath strengthened a covenant with many -- one week, and [in] the midst of the week he causeth sacrifice and present to cease, and by the wing of abominations he is making desolate, even till the consummation, and that which is determined is poured on the desolate one.

Consistent with the Hebrew.

No "sacrilegious object".
No "temple".
No "antchrist".

No dispensational futurist interpretation by hallucination.

Give it a try.
 
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covenantee

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And no later temple in Jerusalem has ever been built by the Jews. But today's orthodox Jews in Jerusalem plan to build one, and even have the materials ready to do it, and even the temple artifacts required for old covenant worship.

Should be quite a show.

I'm stocked up on popcorn.

I'll even share it.

Sozomen (ca. A.D.375-447)
"Ecclesiastical History"
Book V, Chapter XXII


Though the emperor [Julian the Apostate] hated and oppressed the Christians, he manifested benevolence and humanity towards the Jews. He wrote to the Jewish patriarchs and leaders, as well as to the people, requesting them to pray for him, and for the prosperity of the empire. In taking this step he was not actuated, I am convinced, by any respect for their religion; for he was aware that it is, so to speak, the mother of the Christian religion, and he knew that both religions rest upon the authority of the patriarchs and the prophets; but he thought to grieve the Christians by favoring the Jews, who are their most inveterate enemies. But perhaps he also calculated upon persuading the Jews to embrace paganism and sacrifices; for they were only acquainted with the mere letter of Scripture, and could not, like the Christians and a few of the wisest among the Hebrews, discern the hidden meaning.

Events proved that this was his real motive; for he sent for some of the chiefs of the race and exhorted them to return to the observance of the laws of Moses and the customs of their fathers. On their replying that because the temple in Jerusalem was overturned, it was neither lawful nor ancestral to do this in another place than the metropolis out of which they had been cast, he gave them public money, commanded them to rebuild the temple, and to practice the cult similar to that of their ancestors, by sacrificing after the ancient way. The Jews entered upon the undertaking, without reflecting that, according to the prediction of the holy prophets, it could not be accomplished. They sought for the most skillful artisans, collected materials, cleared the ground, and entered so earnestly upon the task, that even the women carried heaps of earth, and brought their necklaces and other female ornaments towards defraying the expense. The emperor, the other pagans, and all the Jews, regarded every other undertaking as secondary in importance to this. Although the pagans were not well-disposed towards the Jews, yet they assisted them in this enterprise, because they reckoned upon its ultimate success, and hoped by this means to falsify the prophecies of Christ. Besides this motive, the Jews themselves were impelled by the consideration that the time had arrived for rebuilding their temple. When they had removed the ruins of the former building, they dug up the ground and cleared away its foundation; it is said that on the following day when they were about to lay the first foundation, a great earthquake occurred, and by the violent agitation of the earth, stones were thrown up from the depths, by which those of the Jews who were engaged in the work were wounded, as likewise those who were merely looking on. The houses and public porticos, near the site of the temple, in which they had diverted themselves, were suddenly thrown down; many were caught thereby, some perished immediately, others were found half dead and mutilated of hands or legs, others were injured in other parts of the body. When God caused the earthquake to cease, the workmen who survived again returned to their task, partly because such was the edict of the emperor, and partly because they were themselves interested in the undertaking. Men often, in endeavoring to gratify their own passions, seek what is injurious to them, reject what would be truly advantageous, and are deluded-by the idea that nothing is really useful except what is agreeable to them. When once led astray by this error, they are no longer able to act in a manner conducive to their own interests, or to take warning by the calamities which are visited upon them.

The Jews, I believe, were just in this state; for, instead of regarding this unexpected earthquake as a manifest indication that God was opposed to the re-erection of their temple, they proceeded to recommence the work. But all parties relate, that they had scarcely returned to the undertaking, when fire burst suddenly from the foundations of the temple, and consumed several of the workmen.

This fact is fearlessly stated, and believed by all; the only discrepancy in the narrative is that some maintain that flame burst from the interior of the temple, as the workmen were striving to force an entrance, while others say that the fire proceeded directly from the earth. In whichever way the phenomenon might have occurred, it is equally wonderful. A more tangible and still more extraordinary prodigy ensued; suddenly the sign of the cross appeared spontaneously on the garments of the persons engaged in the undertaking. These crosses were disposed like stars, and appeared the work of art. Many were hence led to confess that Christ is God, and that the rebuilding of the temple was not pleasing to Him; others presented themselves in the church, were initiated, and besought Christ, with hymns and supplications, to pardon their transgression. If any one does not feel disposed to believe my narrative, let him go and be convinced by those who heard the facts I have related from the eyewitnesses of them, for they are still alive. Let him inquire, also, of the Jews and pagans who left the work in an incomplete state, or who, to speak more accurately, were able to commence it.
 
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Ronald Nolette

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Here is my timeline and dates for Daniels 70-weeks prophecy.

"Seventy weeks are determined for your people and for your holy city… Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the command to restore and build Jerusalem until Messiah the Prince, there shall be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks …
And after the sixty-two weeks Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself; … he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week; but in the middle of the week he shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering.” (Daniel 9:24-27 NKJV abbrev.)




As you can see, I have it starting 457 BC date being Artaxerxes' 7th year. However, there have been no small number of differences when it comes to the terminus a quo of Daniels weeks. Some say the first year of Cyrus in 538 BC. Others say Darius (520 BC) Still others, Artaxerxes' 20th year (444 BC)

As if that wasn’t as all over the place enough, the crucifixion of Jesus – the high point of the prophecy – has ranged from AD 29 to AD 33!

We could do without the muddle and, as you can see, the diagram shows exactly 7 + 62 + ½ weeks from the emperor’s decree until the cross. Let’s discuss.

Hast to break it to you, but Jesus did not end the sacrifices and oblations in c. 30 AD they continued unabated till 70 Ad when Rome destroyed the sanctuary.

Also :

26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Teh prince here is not jesus! jesus was never a prince of Rome! NOr were Romans subjects of Jesus as a prince.

Jesus also did not make the temple desolate for the overspreading of abominations. He would not do that!
 
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Enoch111

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Hast to break it to you, but Jesus did not end the sacrifices and oblations in c. 30 AD they continued unabated till 70 Ad when Rome destroyed the sanctuary.
Good point. Not only that but there will be a third temple in Jerusalem IN THE FUTURE, and the Jews will resume the sacrifices and oblations until the Antichrist shuts them down, and installs the Abomination of Desolation. So why are Christians promoting nonsense about these future developments?

It is significant to note that not only did Jesus prophesy the destruction of the second temple in 70 AD, but at the same time prophesied the erection of the third temple and the Abomination of Desolation. It is all there in Matthew 24.
 

Ronald Nolette

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Good point. Not only that but there will be a third temple in Jerusalem IN THE FUTURE, and the Jews will resume the sacrifices and oblations until the Antichrist shuts them down, and installs the Abomination of Desolation. So why are Christians promoting nonsense about these future developments?

It is significant to note that not only did Jesus prophesy the destruction of the second temple in 70 AD, but at the same time prophesied the erection of the third temple and the Abomination of Desolation. It is all there in Matthew 24.


Why they do it is a mystery. I can only say human pride and spiritual deception are involved for whatever reasons.
 

covenantee

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Teh prince here is not jesus!
Explain for us who "jesus" is.

Messiah the Prince is not Jesus?

Is He antiJesus?

Daniel 9
25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
 
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covenantee

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Why they do it is a mystery. I can only say human pride and spiritual deception are involved for whatever reasons.
There's no spiritual deception like df spiritual deception.

Spawned in the apostasy of the Jesuit counter-reformation.

The epitome of spiritual deception.

No mystery at all.
 
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Spiritual Israelite

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Hast to break it to you, but Jesus did not end the sacrifices and oblations in c. 30 AD they continued unabated till 70 Ad when Rome destroyed the sanctuary.cts of Jesus as a prince.
He put an end to their significance. They were not expected anymore after His death. The tearing of the temple veil in two symbolized that. His shed blood established the new covenant based on His sacrifice and put an end to the old covenant that included animal sacrifices and offerings.

Colossians 2:13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; 14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

Daniel 9:27 is not about the literal end of sacrifices and offerings, it's about the new covenant established by the blood of Christ replacing the old covenant and its animal sacrifices and offerings.
 

Christian Gedge

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Wherever qödeš qodäšîm is found in the OT it is always associated with the Temple. Why would we presume Daniel to be altering that understanding entrenched in his readers?
Sure, but the prophets usually spoke in the language of the old covenant because that is all his readers could visualize. However, the New Testament writers interpreted O.T. prophecy with a new understanding. A classic case is the temple where St Paul says, Jesus is the cornerstone, apostles and prophets are the foundations and we are the building. (Ephesians 2:19-22)

So I think the sixth thing to be accomplished at the end of Daniel's 490 years was some sort of sanctification or rededication of the Temple in Jerusalem. It is just the more natural reading.
Oh my, we've got big problems if you're right! Does God re-sanctify something he has rejected? Does he re-dedicate what has been superseded?

I tend toward Artaxerxes' 20th year rather than 7th year as the starting point, based on Nehemiah 2 -- but that's a guess.

A lot of commentaries will agree with you. But they resort to a 360-day year. Have another look at the O.P. timeline. It works on a good ol' 365.25-day year just like we would expect it should. :)
 
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Davy

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Why they do it is a mystery. I can only say human pride and spiritual deception are involved for whatever reasons.

The unbelieving Jews will build a 3rd temple in Jerusalem because... God has put the 'spirit of stupor' upon them, blinding them (Romans 11). And that was done to them so The Gospel would go to the Gentiles. If all the Jews at Jesus' 1st coming had accepted Him as Messiah, then The Gospel would have never been accomplished. So God blinded them.

Thus today's orthodox unbelieving Jews see a need to re-establish old covenant worship in Jerusalem again, and that must involve a Jewish temple in Jerusalem. Since they are still waiting on the prophesied Messiah to come, having rejected Lord Jesus as Messiah, they believe they are still under the old covenant law and system of worship.

But God is in control of course. The 2nd temple was destroyed in 70 A.D., and various armies conquered Jerusalem and setup false idols, and even now the Dome of the Rock stands upon the Temple Mount under Islamic rule (as controlled by the U.N.). The Jews are not even allowed to go upon that Temple Mount today and worship.

It's been several years now, but I read an article where some Islamic clerics were interviewed, and they testified of the temple history of the Jews, and said the Jews always had their own temple back in history. So they are not totally against the idea of the Jews today building another temple. The Islamic radicals are against it, but not all of Islam.
 

Ronald Nolette

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Explain for us who "jesus" is.

Messiah the Prince is not Jesus?

Is He antiJesus?

Daniel 9
25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

Jesus is Messiah teh Prince.

Teh second prince(ruler) is the antichrist. The second time prince appears does not refer to jesus.
 

Ronald Nolette

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There's no spiritual deception like df spiritual deception.

Spawned in the apostasy of the Jesuit counter-reformation.

The epitome of spiritual deception.

No mystery at all.

Well as romanism is the biggest carrier of covenantalism and has fought against dispensational theology- your whole thought here is inane.
 

Ronald Nolette

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He put an end to their significance. They were not expected anymore after His death. The tearing of the temple veil in two symbolized that. His shed blood established the new covenant based on His sacrifice and put an end to the old covenant that included animal sacrifices and offerings.

Yes He did end their efficacy but that is not what is written. So that is not relavent to Daniel 9


Daniel 9:27 is not about the literal end of sacrifices and offerings, it's about the new covenant established by the blood of Christ replacing the old covenant and its animal sacrifices and offerings.

No it is exactly about what is written and not reinterpreted and redefined by you and others. If you will not take God at His Word, why should I take you at yours?

26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Simply following normal rules of reading would tell you the prince in verse 26 is not Jesus!

And the "he" of 27 refers back to the prince who destroys the city and sanctuary. The city and sanctuary are still standing when He causes the savrifice and oblations to cease (not their efficacy- but their actual sacrificing) Are you telling me Jesus led the Roman armies to destroy the city and sanctuary???
 

covenantee

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Jesus is Messiah teh Prince.

Teh second prince(ruler) is the antichrist. The second time prince appears does not refer to jesus.
There's only one prince in the passage.

He is Messiah.

The word "antichrist" does not appear. It is a dispensational delusion.

Messiah was Commander-In-Chief of the Roman armies, who were His agents of judgment and destruction upon Israel. Titus the Roman general acknowledged the Divine Orchestration of the event.
 
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covenantee

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Well as romanism is the biggest carrier of covenantalism and has fought against dispensational theology- your whole thought here is inane.
Df's frenzied perpetuation of apostate Jesuit futurism is Romanism's witless ally.

“Protestants who advocate the futuristic system are pleasing the pope and are playing into the hands of Rome.” Joseph Zacchello, former Catholic priest