Daniels 70-Weeks Timeline

[Spiritual Israelite]

So you imagine no life on earth when Jesus returns, no nations, etc. I think we have heard your opinion on this enough. That opinion is a disgrace to the name of Jesus.

We (Amils) look forward to the new heavens and new earth in accordance with the promise of His second coming, as Peter wrote in 2 Peter 3:13. Is that what you look forward to in accordance with His return? No, you instead look forward to a pointless 1000 year reign on earth that will fail spectacularly, resulting in a number "as the sand of the sea" (Rev 20:7-9) from around the world rebelling against Christ and His people.

 

[dad]

Well, too bad for you then. Deal with it.

Nice

 

[dad]

So, you think Jesus has just been twiddling His thumbs up in heaven for the past 2,000 years or so waiting for His chance to rule? To allow things to happen that can only happen if He allows them to happen is part of ruling and exercising His power. And, of course, He intervenes when He wants to as well. That also is part of ruling. For Him to have power and to rule does not equate to Him being some kind of dictator who forces everyone to do what He wants. That's ludicrous and is not taught anywhere in scripture. He is not going to mess around trying to be a dictator to those who don't believe in Him. Instead, He is going to destroy them. As it says in Psalm 2:9 He is going to break/destroy them so thoroughly that it is compared to breaking a vase into pieces.

He doesn't rule nations today with a rod of iron. That is not even worth debating.

 

[dad]

Actually, John did not say that an individual Antichrist would come. He said that they heard antichrist would come and then he made it clear that there were already many antichrists back then. Some of them, like you, may have thought there was one Antichrist coming, but the reality is that there are MANY antichrists. John made it clear that ANYONE who denies Christ is antichrist (1 John 2:22). He did not say anything about an individual Antichrist at all.

Not sure of your point. You seem to be playing a word game where that because John said as you have heard the AC will come one day, that it will not happen, sort of a rumor John was repeating?
I think I have said before that I do not consider people that do not believe the bible non bible believers. That means their twisted little utterances don't amount to a hill of beans.

 

[dad]

Does the phrase "the man of sin" have to be referring to an individual instead of referring to sinful mankind in general?

We will disagree. There are many names for that well described evil leader.

 

[dad]

We (Amils) look forward to the new heavens and new earth in accordance with the promise of His second coming, as Peter wrote in 2 Peter 3:13. Is that what you look forward to in accordance with His return? No, you instead look forward to a pointless 1000 year reign on earth that will fail spectacularly, resulting in a number "as the sand of the sea" (Rev 20:7-9) from around the world rebelling against Christ and His people.

I do not believe that Adam and Eve was a mistake God made. Nor do I believe this age or the tribulation (which many here dismiss and disbelieve anyhow) is a mistake. Nor is the 1000 years! After the 1000 years is when the new heaven comes, that is clear as clear can be in the bible. So all believers look forward to that new heavens. They just realize when it will happen rather than conflating events as the manner of some is.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Not sure of your point.

Seriously? I believe I was very clear in the point I was making. There isn't just one Antichrist, there are many antichrists. What is hard to understand about that point?

You seem to be playing a word game where that because John said as you have heard the AC will come one day, that it will not happen, sort of a rumor John was repeating?

It does NOT say that they heard an individual Antichrist would come. But, even if they did hear that, they weren't hearing the story accurately, because the fact of the matter is that many antichrists were coming and many came already in John's day.

I think I have said before that I do not consider people that do not believe the bible non bible believers. That means their twisted little utterances don't amount to a hill of beans.

Your words don't amount to a hill of beans, either. And a vast majority of the words in your posts are just your words without any scriptural support. If you think your words alone are going to convince anyone of anything, you need to think again.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

He doesn't rule nations today with a rod of iron. That is not even worth debating.

The "ruling" with a rod of iron is equated with destruction. Just read Revelation 19:15-18. He will be destroying His enemies, not ruling over them. It couldn't be more clear.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I do not believe that Adam and Eve was a mistake God made.

Who said you did? What in the world does that have to do with what we're talking about?

Nor do I believe this age or the tribulation (which many here dismiss and disbelieve anyhow) is a mistake. Nor is the 1000 years!

I don't believe those things are a mistake, either. I just interpret them differently than you do.

After the 1000 years is when the new heaven comes, that is clear as clear can be in the bible. So all believers look forward to that new heavens. They just realize when it will happen rather than conflating events as the manner of some is.

You didn't address what I pointed out about 2 Peter 3:13. Peter said we are looking forward to the new heavens and new earth in accordance with the promise of Christ's second coming. Are you looking forward to the new heavens and new earth in accordance with the promise of Christ's second coming? I don't know how you could when you don't even have the new heavens and new earth being ushered in until 1000 years (plus a little season) later.

 

[covenantee]

Seriously? I believe I was very clear in the point I was making. There isn't just one Antichrist, there are many antichrists. What is hard to understand about that point?

It does NOT say that they heard an individual Antichrist would come. But, even if they did hear that, they weren't hearing the story accurately, because the fact of the matter is that many antichrists were coming and many came already in John's day.

Your words don't amount to a hill of beans, either. And a vast majority of the words in your posts are just your words without any scriptural support. If you think your words alone are going to convince anyone of anything, you need to think again.

Hey bro, you may be or are aware that you're dealing with someone who declares the united testimony of the historic orthodox Christian Church with which he disagrees to be "used toilet paper".

I ultimately concluded that rational discussion was impossible with someone suffering from hallucinatory psychosis induced by cultic indoctrination.

Hopefully you'll have a better experience.

Blessings.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Hey bro, you may be or are aware that you're dealing with someone who declares the united testimony of the historic orthodox Christian Church with which he disagrees to be "used toilet paper".

Good grief. Seems impossible to have a reasonable discussion with someone who says things like that.

I ultimately concluded that rational discussion was impossible with someone suffering from hallucinatory psychosis induced by cultic indoctrination.

I am coming to that conclusion as well. I don't know if I want to waste any more time on someone who likes to make declarations left and right without ever providing any scriptural support to back them up.

Hopefully you'll have a better experience.

Doesn't seem likely.

 

[dad]

Seriously? I believe I was very clear in the point I was making. There isn't just one Antichrist, there are many antichrists. What is hard to understand about that point?

It does NOT say that they heard an individual Antichrist would come. But, even if they did hear that, they weren't hearing the story accurately, because the fact of the matter is that many antichrists were coming and many came already in John's day.

Your words don't amount to a hill of beans, either. And a vast majority of the words in your posts are just your words without any scriptural support. If you think your words alone are going to convince anyone of anything, you need to think again.

The context was clear. One day the antichrist will come and meanwhile there are lots of little antichrists also. In case anyone was unsure, Paul clears it up.

2 Thessalonians 2:3

Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

 

[dad]

The "ruling" with a rod of iron is equated with destruction. Just read Revelation 19:15-18. He will be destroying His enemies, not ruling over them. It couldn't be more clear.

Lots of destroying goes on because the wicked do not surrender. The world will be fine, thanks. Better than fine.

 

[dad]

Who said you did? What in the world does that have to do with what we're talking about?

You insulted the period of the reign of Jesus. As if it were some mistake. Like other periods, it is no mistake. Can you connect the dots now?

You didn't address what I pointed out about 2 Peter 3:13. Peter said we are looking forward to the new heavens and new earth in accordance with the promise of Christ's second coming.

That is exactly what happens and it happens very much in accordance with Jesus' coming. 1000 years later. He has to come and reign before there can be a rebellion at the end of that 1000 years. Then He makes the new earth and heaven.

Are you looking forward to the new heavens and new earth in accordance with the promise of Christ's second coming?

Yes. 1000 years accordingly after He returns according to the bible.

 

[The Light]

It says AFTER the 69th week, the Messiah would be cut off, not at the end of the 69th week. You are changing the text to fit your doctrine. It does not say how long AFTER the 69th week ends that He would be cut off.

Sorry to disappoint LaPal. Jesus rides a donkey into Jerusalem as Messiah at the end of the 69th week. He is cutoff after the 69th week so your thesis is incorrect as usual. I don't need to do anything to fit the text to my doctrine as the text and Word of God is my doctrine.

 

[Christian Gedge]

Sorry to disappoint LaPal. Jesus rides a donkey into Jerusalem as Messiah at the end of the 69th week. He is cutoff after the 69th week so your thesis is incorrect as usual. I don't need to do anything to fit the text to my doctrine as the text and Word of God is my doctrine.

Did you know this doctrine came in 1895 with the publication, 'The Coming Prince?' A doctrine of man for sure - the man Sir Robert Anderson.

 

[The Light]

Did you know this doctrine came in 1895 with the publication, 'The Coming Prince?' A doctrine of man for sure - the man Sir Robert Anderson.

No. I had no idea. Never heard of the guy. Do you think that the correct conclusion of the Word of God has to be a doctrine of man? I never heard of John Nelson Darby and yet I was able to read the Word without biased glasses and realize there will be a pretribulation rapture. The truth is not a doctrine of man.

 

[Christian Gedge]

John Nelson Darby popularized the pretribulation rapture around 1830 onwards. Sir Robert Anderson developed the 360-day calendar theory (1895) to fit the 70-week count in support of Darby. Schofield provided the Bible notes in 1909.

You need to know these names TheLight. They are the men whose doctrines you follow.

 

[The Light]

Ezra 6:14
14 And the elders of the Jews builded, and they prospered through the prophesying of Haggai the prophet and Zechariah the son of Iddo. And they builded, and finished it, according to the commandment of the God of Israel, and according to the commandment of Cyrus, and Darius, and Artaxerxes king of Persia.

And yet you happen to leave out the truth. What is it that they are talking about in Ezra 6. They are talking about building the Temple of God, not the city of Jerusalem.
Ezra 6
1 Then Darius the king made a decree, and search was made in the house of the rolls, where the treasures were laid up in Babylon.

2 And there was found at Achmetha, in the palace that is in the province of the Medes, a roll, and therein was a record thus written:

3 In the first year of Cyrus the king the same Cyrus the king made a decree concerning the house of God at Jerusalem, Let the house be builded, the place where they offered sacrifices, and let the foundations thereof be strongly laid; the height thereof threescore cubits, and the breadth thereof threescore cubits;

4 With three rows of great stones, and a row of new timber: and let the expenses be given out of the king's house:

5 And also let the golden and silver vessels of the house of God, which Nebuchadnezzar took forth out of the temple which is at Jerusalem, and brought unto Babylon, be restored, and brought again unto the temple which is at Jerusalem, every one to his place, and place them in the house of God.

6 Now therefore, Tatnai, governor beyond the river, Shetharboznai, and your companions the Apharsachites, which are beyond the river, be ye far from thence:

7 Let the work of this house of God alone; let the governor of the Jews and the elders of the Jews build this house of God in his place.

8 Moreover I make a decree what ye shall do to the elders of these Jews for the building of this house of God: that of the king's goods, even of the tribute beyond the river, forthwith expenses be given unto these men, that they be not hindered.

9 And that which they have need of, both young bullocks, and rams, and lambs, for the burnt offerings of the God of heaven, wheat, salt, wine, and oil, according to the appointment of the priests which are at Jerusalem, let it be given them day by day without fail:

10 That they may offer sacrifices of sweet savours unto the God of heaven, and pray for the life of the king, and of his sons.

11 Also I have made a decree, that whosoever shall alter this word, let timber be pulled down from his house, and being set up, let him be hanged thereon; and let his house be made a dunghill for this.

12 And the God that hath caused his name to dwell there destroy all kings and people, that shall put to their hand to alter and to destroy this house of God which is at Jerusalem. I Darius have made a decree; let it be done with speed.

13 Then Tatnai, governor on this side the river, Shetharboznai, and their companions, according to that which Darius the king had sent, so they did speedily.

14 And the elders of the Jews builded, and they prospered through the prophesying of Haggai the prophet and Zechariah the son of Iddo. And they builded, and finished it, according to the commandment of the God of Israel, and according to the commandment of Cyrus, and Darius, and Artaxerxes king of Persia.


TL, as Chris cogently explains in "The Atonement Clock":[/QUOTE]

I would say as Chris eloquently explains in "The Atonement Clock". Cogently would not be correct. As with all explanations I've seen, they fall short of agreeing with the Word of God. For example....here is Chris's explanation: "But if we go back to verse Ezra 7:25 he was also told to "appoint magistrates and judges etc" so we can assume the city and temple go together."

God is very specific and yet Chris wants to assume that the city and Temple go together. We don't need assume anything, as we have the exact information that is needed. We know exactly when the commandment is given. It is strengthened by the commandment to cease building Jerusalem until the commandment is given to rebuild Jerusalem.

So Chris's explanation for choosing the date in 457 BC is that magistrates and judges etc. were appointed so we can assume the city and the temple go together.

"This clear statement of scripture cuts right through the endless arguments, disagreements, wrangling, books and debates claiming one decree is the ‘most correct’ and all others are wrong etc.

Daniel 9
25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

The commandment to rebuild Jerusalem is given in 444 BC. There is no question. Dancing around the truth is why very few people understand the Word. Why the truth does not change the mind of those blind to the truth continues to baffle me. Don't you want to know the truth. I never can process this as I seek the truth. Why does seeking the truth seem to hurt so much. I don't understand it. Is it pride, plain blindness, belonging to a group. I can't figure it out. Why don't people want to know the truth?

The simple truth is they are the same decree; they are all correct.

This is absolute nonsense and false. They are not the same decree. How can you even come up with this nonsensical conclusion? Doesn't the truth interest you. Is your doctrine more important than truth?

The prophet Daniel makes it quite clear that his vision follows the earlier prophecy of Jeremiah, and when understood in that context we see a single decree issued in series and linked together in logical order. First, Cyrus issued the decree when Babylon fell just as Jeremiah said it would. Second, Darius’ proclamation came between September - December 520 BC, marking the completion of Jerusalem’s seventy-year desolation. Third came Artaxerxes’ decree in the year 457 BC. It started the new era of God’s background Jubilee clock, which had been ticking independently since before the nation began. Count from here!"

Again. Not the truth. Just something that you have made up. The decree of Cyrus was about the House of God, not about the city of Jerusalem. That is the facts. God gives us specifics so that we can see the incredible accuracy of the Word of God, and the incredible accuracy of His of His prophets. And then you reject this factual truth and blur this truth with your doctrinal emphasis.

 

[The Light]

John Nelson Darby popularized the pretribulation rapture around 1830 onwards. Sir Robert Anderson developed the 360-day calendar theory (1895) to fit the 70-week count in support of Darby. Schofield provided the Bible notes in 1909.

You need to know these names TheLight. They are the men whose doctrines you follow.

I'm just following what the Word of God says. The Word specifically tells that....25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

We have the decree to rebuild Jerusalem and yet you make an incorrect assumption and say we can assume that since magistrates and judges are appointed we can assume the city and temple go together."

No we can't. We don't care if they are building the city. WE CARE WHEN THE COMMANDMENT TO BUILD THE CITY IS GIVEN. Simple, cut and dried, exact date. No assumptions are necessary.