The ten horns and little horn of Daniel 7 are talking about first century AD Rome.
Thank you for your response. Yes, they are both seen as coming out of the 4th beast kingdom of pagan Rome. And both will continue until His return. The metal man image of Chapter 2 is given to us to confirm there will only be 4 kingdoms that come out of the sea. All of these prophecies in Daniel will take place within this 4 kingdom structure (interpret Daniel with Daniel. Revelation does not interpret Daniel. They will of course never disagree but the symbols in Revelation may not refer to those found in Daniel).
There are 4 and only 4 Gentile kingdoms in Daniel.
The little horn of Daniel 8 is talking about Antiochus Epiphanes of the third kingdom Greece in the 2nd century BC.
The little horn of Daniel 8 is the same little horn of Daniel 7. He is revealed or introduced in Chapter 7 and is expanded upon in Chapter 8. He will also be referred to in Chapters 9 and 11.
AE has no place in Daniel whatsoever (please tell me why he is a different little horn. Just as God gives us the same 4 kingdoms using different symbols in Chapters 2,7 and 8, He also uses this same treatment for other things. Here in Chapter 8, God is revealing more characteristics of this little horn that can only be describing one person who will be deemed “exceedingly great.” Certainly, that one characteristic alone disqualifies AE. Further, he only was in power for 13 years before he was murdered by his own troops. He was nothing more than a thug who hated Jews and damaged / corrupted the Temple. But this does not begin to qualify him for inclusion in Daniel).
Neither chapter are talking about the future 8th kingdom. Daniel only talks about 5 kingdoms in Daniel 2.
Again, for the book of Daniel, God only brought out 4 kingdoms from the sea. We cannot add to that. We cannot change this prophetic kingdom structure where He places all of His prophecies in Daniel because we are attempting to match the prophecies / symbols in Revelation. Please reconsider your view on the # of kingdoms IN DANIEL.
Later chapters only conver the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th kingdom. The feet of clay and ten toes are never mentioned in later chapters of Daniel.
Not sure I understand you here. There are only 4 kingdoms and each is referred to using different symbols in Chapters 2,7 and 8. The identity of these 4 never changes- only the using of different symbols to bring out different attributes and characteristics. God is revealing at least 3 separate views for each kingdom so we can easily identify them and know more about them as His people travel through them. As you can see, in Chapters 7, 8, and 11, God does not spend much time discussing the first three kingdoms. They are quickly put in the rear view mirror. It is this 4th kingdom that is so important and where almost all of the prophecies will take place.
Within this 4th kingdom, we will find:
1) the end of the 70 weeks of years prophecy,
2) the arrival of the Messiah on the first day of the 70th week,
3) the beginning of His ministry,
4) the rejection and crucifying of their Messiah,
5) the starting of His church,
6) the sending of His Holy Spirit,
7) the coming out of 10 horns just after His crucifixion,
8) the coming out of the little horn AFTER the 10 horns have come out,
9) the growth of His church during the remaining time of pagan Rome,
10) the appropriation of His church AFTER the demise of pagan Rome by the little horn (papacy) who will then reign as the head of papal Rome,
11) and as prophesied in Daniel, this little horn will continue until the end when he will be destroyed without human hands- clearly this is not AE, but the “evil” one who had taken over His church and brought in pagan practices, claims divinity, etc.).
The feet of clay covers the time of papal Rome from around the 5th century to the 15th century. But Daniel never dreams about the 5th kingdom.
The feet, partly of iron and partly of clay represent the 4th kingdom of pagan Rome (legs of iron that continue down to its feet - remember, God has only brought 4 kingdoms), but He will symbolize His people as “clay” WITHIN this 4th kingdom beast. And this is exactly what was at the time of the cross. The Jews had almost completely been restored from the destruction of the Babylonians. They were now back in Jerusalem and were awaiting their Messiah to come.
They were expecting Him to come and literally wage war with the Romans and destroy them and set up His earthly kingdom. Instead, God came as a suffering servant and He would save His people by sacrificing Himself on the cross for the forgiveness of sin. This would be God’s way of saving them from sin, not pagan Rome who kept them physically under their control.
God would use the symbol of clay (see Jeremiah), so He could reveal those of His people (clay) that would fall into one of two categories: those Jews who accepted Him as their Messiah, He would refer to them as “pottery clay” (He would be the Potter, and mold them as He so desired). Those that would reject Him, even after the cross and His resurrection, would be identified as “ceramic” clay because they hearts were too hardened and He could not use them to preach the Good News to the world. If you study verses 2:40-44, you will come to see the “post cross” division of His people and the discussion of His coming church).
Only Revelation covers the 6th, 7th, and 8th world kingdoms.
I would ask you to try and interpret Daniel on its own. Remember, Daniel was written for those Jews who would be returning to Jerusalem after their exile in Babylon. Much of Daniel speaks to this very purpose (especially the 70 weeks of years prophecy which covers the time from 457 BC to the end in 33/34 AD - just 3.5 years after the cross).
The Book of Revelation has nothing to do with the Jews as they return from Babylon and await the coming of their Messiah. God would give them everything they would need in the Book of Daniel that revealed all the things that would take place before the completion of the 70 weeks prophecy. They simply could not comprehend how their God could come as a man or a suffering servant. He did not meet their expectations… they were looking for a king not an ordinary man.
Why are we so concerned about the 4th beast and Daniel 7, when our focus should be on Jesus Christ and the NT Covenant which is about the spread of the Gospel, instead of the persecution and martyrdom of first century Christians.
This is so true. And that is exactly why I ask that you consider that Daniel is indeed prophesied on the most important events in our history- the arrival of Jesus within this 4th kingdom period of pagan Rome, within the period of the 70 weeks of years prophecy.
In 9:24, God reveals the 6 requirements He had given His Messiah to fulfill during the last 7 years of the prophecy. God “set aside” this last week for His Messiah to come and complete His God given mission. Remember, the 70 weeks prophecy required the restoration of everything in Jerusalem back to the way it was prior to the Babylonian destruction. The Jews were required to restore all the physical things - the city, the Temple, the Sanctuary, the walls and streets - all the physical things, if you will. And everything had to be completely restored by the end of the 69th week. And they were all restored in the exact reverse order they were either destroyed or taken away. However, there was only one item they were incapable of restoring- the Ark of the Covenant that was taken away by Jeremiah before the arrival of the Babylonians. Consequently, this would have to be the very last item to be restored. And only one person is capable of restoring it- the Messiah would represent the presence of God in the Sanctuary. He would be the final piece of the restoration prophecy and He would arrive on the very first day of the 70th west begin His ministry. Do you are absolutely correct, all of these verses in Daniel lead us to the most important events in our history- which all occur at the end of the 70th week, all within the 4th kingdom of pagan Rome.
Please consider taking the above interpretations and match them to what literally took place from 606 BC, the beginning of the Babylonian captivity, to the end of the 70th week of the Chapter 9 prophecy.
The Bible is not just a history book, but a book of things to come.
This is so true and that is exactly why MOST of Daniel has been misinterpreted- their interpretations do not focus on the coming of the Messiah and His plan of salvation that is being told within these chapters. It is not a retelling or a recounting of some events that took place in our history books. It is a messianic prophecy that is being told as His people move through these 4 kingdoms. The kingdoms, their kings, their conflicts are not the story. They “house” the story to reveal the coming restoration of Jerusalem culminating in the arrival of their Messiah in the last week for Him to fulfill His God given mission.
Look forward to your thoughts.
