Daniel Chapter 8 - the 2300 evenings and mornings prophecy

[grafted branch]

Yes, I agree Rev. 11:7 is about John the Baptist and Jesus. Prior to the shedding of the blood of Jesus, his death, resurrection and ascension, the Gift of the Holy Spirit was was not ever permanently given to any man, except John the Baptist and Jesus. Zech. 4:14.
John 7
[39] (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)
Therefore, for those that we see who "are under the altar [of the OC]", died in faith believing in "the Promise that was to come", and were all then given "white robes" [the Gift of the Holy Spirit, upon the day of Jesus death]. Rev. 6:9-11.
All of such ARE the symbolic 144,000 of OC Israel, which are the firstfruits unto God's Gift of His Salvation.

I agree with most of your post. I agree those under the altar at the fifth seal are OC believers who believed in the promise. I think the 144,000 were those resurrected in Matthew 27:52-53 although I can’t argue against the 144,000 being symbolic of the whole OC Israel.

Here’s where I differ, I think the Holy Spirit did leave Jesus before His death, I think Jesus died alone. Also there is John 20:22 where Jesus breathed on the disciples and said receive ye the Holy Spirit. This debatable verse seems to contradict the disciples first receiving the Holy Spirit at Pentecost.

 

[Earburner]

I agree with most of your post. I agree those under the altar at the fifth seal are OC believers who believed in the promise. I think the 144,000 were those resurrected in Matthew 27:52-53 although I can’t argue against the 144,000 being symbolic of the whole OC Israel.

As for the symbolic 144,000, being those that were many (but not all) of OC Israel, they were the OC. martyrs, who resurrected immediately after Jesus had "given up the Ghost" while on the cross.
I say that, because king David's grave is still with us, of whom did not die a martyr.
Could it be that he will be among the Great Multitude?

Here’s where I differ, I think the Holy Spirit did leave Jesus before His death, I think Jesus died alone. Also there is John 20:22 where Jesus breathed on the disciples and said receive ye the Holy Spirit. This debatable verse seems to contradict the disciples first receiving the Holy Spirit at Pentecost.

I agree! Jesus was the "sin bearer" for the whole world. Therefore, being in that temporary condition upon his mortal death, God the Father, who is Holy, had to forsake (depart/abandon) His Eternal Son, and leave Him to die his mortal death alone.
If you are a parent, think of the grief and anguish that both the Father and the Son endured!! It was a sacrifice by both.
Is it any wonder when Jesus prayed in the Garden of Gethsemane, that his sweat was as great drops of blood falling to the ground.

Not many are aware that both the human race, as well as God the Father, required the sacrifice of "the Lamb OF God".

Without the sacrifice of Jesus, God the Father could NEVER permanently dwell within us forever.

I think that Jesus gave them a fore taste of the presence of the Holy Spirit, and the works that He would perform through them.
Remember, in that event of Jesus "breathing upon them, to receive the Holy Spirit" before Pentecost, Jesus was "not yet glorified".

 

[Earburner]

Here is a list I made of the things that I see that connects JtB to the two witnesses.

Matthew 11:14 JtB is called Elias but in John 1:21 JtB answers “no” when asked if he is Elias. In some kind of way JtB is a single person that represents 2 people, himself and Elijah.

Yes, JtB was his own person, but in himself he was not alone of himself. In his birth, he was anointed by the Holy Spirit of God.
KJV Luke 1
[13] But the angel said unto him, Fear not, Zacharias: for thy prayer is heard; and thy wife Elisabeth shall bear thee a son, and thou shalt call his name John.
[14] And thou shalt have joy and gladness; and many shall rejoice at his birth.
[15] For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb.
[16] And many of the children of Israel shall he turn to the Lord their God.
[17] And he shall go before him in the spirit [mind] and power [likeness] of Elias, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just; to make ready a people prepared FOR THE Lord.

Revelation 11:3 they are clothed in sackcloth. Mark 1:6 JtB was clothed with camel’s hair.

"Sackcloth" is symbolic of one who calls people to cease being disobedient, thus turning them to be repentant towards God.

Revelation 11:7 when their testimony is finished the beast makes war, overcomes them, and kills them. Mathew 14:3 Herod puts JtB in prison (war), Matthew 11:2-3 JtB questions if Jesus is the Christ (overcome), and Matthew 14:10 JtB is beheaded (killed).

I agree. Both JtB and Jesus were a joint ministry. John's ministry was for 6 mos., and Jesus' ministry was for 3 years. If you recall, Satan through king Herod (part of the beast system), wasted no time in trying to find the newborn Savior, by killing all children under 2 yrs old.
We should be reminded that the coming of the Messiah into the world was kept secret for a specific reason. Rom. 16:25
1 Cor. 2
[7] But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:
[8] Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
> If therefore the Lord was not crucified/killed, there would have been NO FORGIVENESS OF SIN for any one of us.
Edit: nor could it ever be that a Holy God would be able to live within us. Yes, the sacrificial death of Jesus was for both man and God.

Revelation 11:9-10 their dead bodies are in the street for 3 ½ days and they that dwell on the earth rejoice, make merry, and send gifts.

Since Rev. Is highly symbolic, we must apply Paul's counsel of "comparing spiritual things with spiritual" 1 Cor. 2:13.
I earnestly understand and believe that 3.5 days is symbolic in meaning of 3.5 years.
Concerning both John and Jesus, their lives were anointed by God, that they should be in the world, speaking the words of God, but once their testimonies were finished, they were to be KILLED. Therefore, for 3.5 years in essence their mortal lives of joint ministry is as it were of preordained dead men speaking.

From Mark 6:29 it is possible that JtB’s body was in the street for 3 ½ days because it was only after JtB’s disciples heard of his beheading that they came and got his body; also JtB was beheaded during Herod’s birthday party which could be what making merry and sending gifts is referring to.

There is a scripture that can apply to both John and Jesus, and that is in
Isa. 59:11-17
[14] And judgment is turned away backward, and justice standeth afar off: for TRUTH is fallen in the street, and equity cannot enter.

Revelation 11:11 after 3 ½ days the Spirit of life enters into them and they stand on their feet. In Matthew 27:52-53 after His resurrection (3 ½ days?) the graves are opened and the bodies of the saints arose. It is possible that JtB was one of the saints that arose at that time.

Once again, I believe that 3.5 days is coded [signified**] in meaning for 3.5 years, being the total time of their joint ministry, aka 42 mos. or 1260 days.
** Rev. 1:1

I think you have JtB and Jesus as the two witnesses, which I think is a strong possibility but it seems JtB correlates more so than Jesus does. What connections to the two witnesses do you see Jesus having?

Heb. 10:4-9
[5] Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:
> Yes, John the Baptist and Jesus are the "two anointed ones" prophesied in Zech. 4:14, which was fulfilled as shown in Rev. 11:3

 

[grafted branch]

Both JtB and Jesus were a joint ministry. John's ministry was for 6 mos., and Jesus' ministry was for 3 years.

I agree with you on most of the things you said. I think I saw you make a post elsewhere that you see the AOD as Jesus becoming sin for us. Personally I think the AOD was the first sacrifice made after the veil was torn. If we put that difference aside and agree on the timing of the AOD, then a 3.5 year Jesus/JtB ministry doesn’t quite seem to fit Daniel 12:11-12.

From the time the daily sacrifice is taken away and the AOD is set up is 1290 days. If we agree on the AOD taking place at the time of the cross, then 1290 days before that puts us 30 days prior to JtB if Jesus/JtB had a total of 3.5 years or 1260 days of ministry. How do you explain the daily sacrifice being taken away 30 days prior to JtB?

A possible solution is that when Jesus was in His ministry he forgave sins, He had the power to forgive sins prior to the cross, as seen in Matthew 9:6. So the man who was healed of the palsy did not need to participate in the daily sacrifice ritual, his sins were forgiven, the daily sacrifice was “taken away” for this person. However, keeping the Daniel 12:11 1290 days in mind, this solution puts Jesus’s ministry 1260 days long and 30 days for sacrifices to resume after the veil was torn and the rocks rent (maybe the rocks of the altar rent?). It might also be possible to say the daily sacrifice was taken away when Jesus was announced as the Lamb of God by JtB and then have His ministry start after JtB was put in prison, this solution puts the AOD closer to the cross since Jesus went into the wilderness for 40 days just after being baptized, but still doesn’t work with a 3.5 year Jesus/JtB ministry.

Also we have Luke 3:1-3 which has JtB’s ministry starting in the 15th year of the reign of Tiberius Caesar which has to fit into a 3.5 year period before the cross if we have Jesus/JtB together being 3.5 years.

How are you interpreting Daniel 12:11-12 and the 1290 days?

 

[CTK]

I agree with you on most of the things you said. I think I saw you make a post elsewhere that you see the AOD as Jesus becoming sin for us. Personally I think the AOD was the first sacrifice made after the veil was torn. If we put that difference aside and agree on the timing of the AOD, then a 3.5 year Jesus/JtB ministry doesn’t quite seem to fit Daniel 12:11-12.

Hope you do not mind me cutting in here...The AOD is indeed the cross. Meaning, the most "abominable" act in the history of mankind (crucifixion of the Messiah) would (and did) cause God to become completely "desolate" to His people (Jews) for the next 2000 years. Also, if you look into the Levitical laws, you will find that God has determined how the Jews were to conduct their religious ceremonies - and of course, Passover being the first and so important. Within those rules and regulations governing the actual ceremony, it is necessary that the Tenple, the Priest, the animal sacrifice MUST ALL be cleanses and made pure. There can be no uncleanliness in any of the elements within the ceremony. If there is found anything "unclean" is is deemed "an abomination." This when Jesus took on the sin of the world He became "unclean." Now, He would have to give up His Spirit to God because sin and God's holiness cannot be in the same place.

From the time the daily sacrifice is taken away and the AOD is set up is 1290 days. If we agree on the AOD taking place at the time of the cross, then 1290 days before that puts us 30 days prior to JtB if Jesus/JtB had a total of 3.5 years or 1260 days of ministry. How do you explain the daily sacrifice being taken away 30 days prior to JtB?

Both the 1290 and the 1335 days prophecy in Chapter 12 speak to the Messiah. The 1290 days speaks to His first coming while the 1335 speads to His return. God will give Daniel the formula in 1290 for us to use in understanding how to calculate the 1335 days.

Here is a cut / paste section from my commentary on Chapter 12:

Almost all the time prophecies in the Book of Daniel have been interpreted by applying the year-for-a-day principle. This includes the seven "times" found in Chapter 4, the "time, times, and half a time" in Chapter 7, and even the "2300 evenings and mornings" prophecy in Chapter 8, despite Daniel clearly mentioning it refers to the "evenings and morning sacrifices." In this commentary, an alternative interpretation has been offered for each of these time elements based on the context found in the surrounding verses. These two time elements are also quite challenging to interpret, but they, too, ultimately point to the Messiah—His first and second coming upon the earth.

Verse 11 represents two separate timed events: the period between when the daily sacrifice was taken away and the setting up of the abomination of desolation. These two events are referenced in Chapter 9. The "abomination of desolation" signifies the crucifixion of the Messiah in the middle of the final week, which equates to 3.5 years of the last seven-year period. The "setting up" of the abomination of desolation begins on the first day of His ministry, marked by His baptism in the Jordan River.

Daniel’s seventy-weeks-of-years prophecy is given in years, with the last week representing seven years. Using 360 days for each prophetic year, the period from the first day of the seventieth week to His crucifixion is 3.5 years or 1,260 days (3.5 years x 360 days per year). However, an adjustment is necessary to account for the Jewish calendar's reconciliation of the solar and lunar calendars, ensuring the spring feast days occur in the spring. Over a nineteen-year cycle, the calendar is adjusted seven times in years 3, 6, 8, 11, 14, 17, and 19, adding a 30 day adjustment to that year. During any three-year period within this cycle, there must be at least one 30-day adjustment.

Thus, the 1,260-day span between the "set up of the abomination" and the crucifixion includes an additional 30 days, totaling 1,290 days.

A possible solution is that when Jesus was in His ministry he forgave sins, He had the power to forgive sins prior to the cross, as seen in Matthew 9:6. So the man who was healed of the palsy did not need to participate in the daily sacrifice ritual, his sins were forgiven, the daily sacrifice was “taken away” for this person. However, keeping the Daniel 12:11 1290 days in mind, this solution puts Jesus’s ministry 1260 days long and 30 days for sacrifices to resume after the veil was torn and the rocks rent (maybe the rocks of the altar rent?). It might also be possible to say the daily sacrifice was taken away when Jesus was announced as the Lamb of God by JtB and then have His ministry start after JtB was put in prison, this solution puts the AOD closer to the cross since Jesus went into the wilderness for 40 days just after being baptized, but still doesn’t work with a 3.5 year Jesus/JtB ministry.

Also we have Luke 3:1-3 which has JtB’s ministry starting in the 15th year of the reign of Tiberius Caesar which has to fit into a 3.5 year period before the cross if we have Jesus/JtB together being 3.5 years.

How are you interpreting Daniel 12:11-12 and the 1290 days?

 

[Earburner]

I agree with you on most of the things you said. I think I saw you make a post elsewhere that you see the AOD as Jesus becoming sin for us. Personally I think the AOD was the first sacrifice made after the veil was torn. If we put that difference aside and agree on the timing of the AOD, then a 3.5 year Jesus/JtB ministry doesn’t quite seem to fit Daniel 12:11-12.

From the time the daily sacrifice is taken away and the AOD is set up is 1290 days. If we agree on the AOD taking place at the time of the cross, then 1290 days before that puts us 30 days prior to JtB if Jesus/JtB had a total of 3.5 years or 1260 days of ministry. How do you explain the daily sacrifice being taken away 30 days prior to JtB?

A possible solution is that when Jesus was in His ministry he forgave sins, He had the power to forgive sins prior to the cross, as seen in Matthew 9:6. So the man who was healed of the palsy did not need to participate in the daily sacrifice ritual, his sins were forgiven, the daily sacrifice was “taken away” for this person. However, keeping the Daniel 12:11 1290 days in mind, this solution puts Jesus’s ministry 1260 days long and 30 days for sacrifices to resume after the veil was torn and the rocks rent (maybe the rocks of the altar rent?). It might also be possible to say the daily sacrifice was taken away when Jesus was announced as the Lamb of God by JtB and then have His ministry start after JtB was put in prison, this solution puts the AOD closer to the cross since Jesus went into the wilderness for 40 days just after being baptized, but still doesn’t work with a 3.5 year Jesus/JtB ministry.

Also we have Luke 3:1-3 which has JtB’s ministry starting in the 15th year of the reign of Tiberius Caesar which has to fit into a 3.5 year period before the cross if we have Jesus/JtB together being 3.5 years.

How are you interpreting Daniel 12:11-12 and the 1290 days?

The 2300 days prophecy and the 70 weeks prophecy are intentional conundrums of God, of which can only be sorted out by "the mind of Christ" within us.

The 2300 day prophecy was completely fulfilled in the days of Antiochus lV and Judas Maccabeus.
Prophecy, once it is fulfilled, cannot be fulfilled again, but it can be used in typology, of which is how Jesus applied it to Himself. John 2:18-22.
[19] Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
His temple body was destroyed/desolated, but then restored through his resurrection.

And now that he has, ever since Pentecost we all are invited to be "cleansed" by the shed blood of Christ, and be "restored" back to our Eternal relationship with God. Through His Gift of His Holy Spirit, we are "made to be partakers of the divine nature".

The key to it all is to simply know that "in the midst** of the week", the 70th week, is when Jesus suffered and died his mortal death on the cross.
**From that point we can go backward and forward in time of 1.0 BC and 1.0 AD., which accurately locks in all of the events before and after the cross.

Edit:
Even Pentecost is revealed.
1. In the 2300 day prophecy, we see it in Dan. 12:12. He that waiteth [to tarry].
> fulfilled in Luke 24:49.

2. In the 70 weeks of years prophecy, we see it in Dan. 9:27. Poured out on the desolate (those who are void of God).
> fulfilled in Acts 10:45.

 

[Douggg]

I agree with you on most of the things you said. I think I saw you make a post elsewhere that you see the AOD as Jesus becoming sin for us. Personally I think the AOD was the first sacrifice made after the veil was torn. If we put that difference aside and agree on the timing of the AOD, then a 3.5 year Jesus/JtB ministry doesn’t quite seem to fit Daniel 12:11-12.

In Matthew 24:15-21, Jesus said for them in Judea when they see the abomination of desolation standing in the holy place, they should flee to the mountains.

Did any of Jesus's disciples flee to the mountains the day that Jesus was crucified ?

Also, the AoD takes place after the gospel has been preached to all nations, in Matthew 24:14. Had that been done, before Jesus was crucified ?

 

[Earburner]

In Matthew 24:15-21, Jesus said for them in Judea when they see the abomination of desolation standing in the holy place, they should flee to the mountains.

Did any of Jesus's disciples flee to the mountains the day that Jesus was crucified ?

Also, the AoD takes place after the gospel has been preached to all nations, in Matthew 24:14. Had that been done, before Jesus was crucified ?

In Mat. 24 Jesus does not correlate time zones of when all the events he speaks of shall take place.
But, if I was to think that the AoD was still future, as you do, I might think it to be the Zionist nation state of Israel today.

The "ten horns" (NATO?) spoken of in Rev. 17:16, just might take place in this decade.
"They shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire." Rev. 9:13-21.

Mat. 24
[14] And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
[15] When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)
[16] Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

 

[Douggg]

In Mat. 24 Jesus does not correlate time zones of when all the events he speaks of shall take place.
But, if I was to think that the AoD was still future, as you do, I might think it to be the Zionist nation state of Israel today.

The "ten horns" (NATO?) spoken of in Rev. 17:16, just might take place in this decade.
"They shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire." Rev. 9:13-21.

Mat. 24
[14] And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
[15] When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)
[16] Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

The abomination of desolation will be that statue image of the beast king in Revelation 13 :14-15 that the false prophet will have made.

Revelation 13:
14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.

15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.

When them in Judea see that statue image placed on the temple mount they should flee right away to the mountains because there is going to be forced worship of the statue image with the penalty for not worshiping it will be being put to death by the false prophet's and beast's regime.

 

[Earburner]

The abomination of desolation will be that statue image of the beast king in Revelation 13 :14-15 that the false prophet will have made.

Revelation 13:
14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.

15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.

When them in Judea see that statue image placed on the temple mount they should flee right away to the mountains because there is going to be forced worship of the statue image with the penalty for not worshiping it will be being put to death by the false prophet's and beast's regime.

As recorded by the Jews, "the abomination that maketh desolate" is a fulfilled prophecy by Antiochus Epiphanes lV, as described in
1 Maccabees 1
[54] Now the fifteenth day of the month Casleu, in the hundred forty and fifth [145] year [BC], they set up the abomination of desolation upon the altar, and builded idol altars throughout the cities of Juda on every side;
[55] And burnt incense at the doors of their houses, and in the streets.
[56] And when they had rent in pieces the books of the law which they found, they burnt them with fire.
[57] And whosoever was found with any the book of the testament, or if any committed to the law, the king's commandment was, that they should put him to death.
[58] Thus did they by their authority unto the Israelites every month, to as many as were found in the cities.
[59] Now the five and twentieth day of the month they did sacrifice upon the idol altar, which was upon the altar of God.
[60] At which time according to the commandment they put to death certain women, that had caused their children to be circumcised.
[61] And they hanged the infants about their necks, and rifled their houses, and slew them that had circumcised them.
[62] Howbeit many in Israel were fully resolved and confirmed in themselves not to eat any unclean thing.
[63] Wherefore the rather to die, that they might not be defiled with meats, and that they might not profane the holy covenant: so then they died.
[64] And there was very great wrath upon Israel.

Antiochus IV Epiphanes - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Once a prophecy has been fulfilled, that prophecy cannot be fulfilled again. However, it can be used in typology.
Q. Can you figure out why it is that Jesus pointed to that prophecy, knowing full well that the prophecy was fulfilled?
A. Jesus was using it in typology to point to Himself.
You can see his meaning in John 2
[18] Then answered the Jews and said unto him, What SIGN shewest thou unto us, seeing that thou doest these things?
[19] Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy [desolate] this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
[20] Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?
[21] But he spake of the temple of his [mortal] body.

 

[Douggg]

As recorded by the Jews, "the abomination that maketh desolate" is a fulfilled prophecy by Antiochus Epiphanes lV, as described in

The Antiochus IV abomination of desolation prefigured what the end times abomination of desolation will be.

Remember the gospel must be spread to all the nations before the end times abomination of desolation takes place.

 

[Douggg]

Q. Can you figure out why it is that Jesus pointed to that prophecy, knowing full well that the prophecy was fulfilled?
A. Jesus was using it in typology to point to Himself.

No, the abomination of desolation in Matthew 24:15 is end times. Referring to Daniel 12:11-12.

The gospel must be preached into all nations, Matthew 24:14, before the abomination of desolation is setup.

 

[Earburner]

No, the abomination of desolation in Matthew 24:15 is end times. Referring to Daniel 12:11-12.

The gospel must be preached into all nations, Matthew 24:14, before the abomination of desolation is setup.

According to God's perspective, there are 7 abominations that HE HATES.
In Prov. 6:17 is the one abomination that caused desolation to Israel and their temple in 70AD.

You are not "connecting the dots" too well.
Maybe the picture below will help point to who it was that actually brought about "the abomination that maketh desolate". KJV- Dan. 11:31, 12:11.

KJV Prov. 6:17 "Hands that shed innocent blood"

connect the dots picture of jesus at DuckDuckGo

DuckDuckGo. Privacy, Simplified.

duckduckgo.com

 

[grafted branch]

Both the 1290 and the 1335 days prophecy in Chapter 12 speak to the Messiah. The 1290 days speaks to His first coming while the 1335 speads to His return. God will give Daniel the formula in 1290 for us to use in understanding how to calculate the 1335 days.

I can’t argue against both 1260 and 1290 being 3.5 years. I realize if you have a 30 day month that an extra month or days have to be added somewhere to maintain accuracy. However I don’t necessarily think Daniel 12:11 should be viewed in that light, so I’ll leave it as something that is a possibility but can’t be proven one way or the other.

I see you are interpreting Daniel 12:11 as counting backwards from the time of daily sacrifice being removed to the time the AOD is set up is 1290 days. Do you know of any other examples in the Bible where counting backwards is allowed?

If I take a verse such as Leviticus 23:15-16 and count backwards it gives a different day than if I counted forwards.

Leviticus 23:15And ye shall count unto you from the morrow after the sabbath, from the day that ye brought the sheaf of the wave offering; seven sabbaths shall be complete: 16 Even unto the morrow after the seventh sabbath shall ye number fifty days; and ye shall offer a new meat offering unto the LORD.

The word “morrow” <4283> means day after or next day. If we started counting the sabbaths backwards, the next day after the sabbath would be a Friday. That would mean a new meat offering should occur on Friday instead of Sunday.



Also, when I look at the Old Greek version of Daniel 12:12 it implies the 1290 days continue on to day 1335 and a person is blessed who makes it to that day.

Daniel 12:12(OG) Happy is the one who continues, because he will gather one thousand three hundred thirty-five days.

To me this shows the counting of days starts with the sacrifices being taken away, then the AOD, then day 1335 where a person is blessed.

 

[grafted branch]

In Matthew 24:15-21, Jesus said for them in Judea when they see the abomination of desolation standing in the holy place, they should flee to the mountains.

Did any of Jesus's disciples flee to the mountains the day that Jesus was crucified ?

Also, the AoD takes place after the gospel has been preached to all nations, in Matthew 24:14. Had that been done, before Jesus was crucified ?

Well, I don’t think the AOD occurred when Jesus died, I think it was the first sacrifice made after the veil was torn and the rocks rent.

The disciples didn’t flee when they saw the AOD because they understood the book of Daniel (whoso readeth, let him understand) and they knew the days would be shortened, thus making the sign to flee not the AOD but when Jerusalem was surrounded by armies.

Let’s say I said something like this, an abomination will occur on Monday and week of destruction will happen due to the abomination but the days of destruction will be shortened. The destruction could start on Monday and end early on Wednesday or the destruction could start later on Wednesday and end on Friday. Either way the days of destruction were shortened.

Now look at the Old Greek version of Daniel 9:27.

Daniel 9:27(OG) And the covenant will prevail for many, and it will return again and be rebuilt broad and long. And at the consummation of times [even after seven years and seventy times and sixty-two times] [until the time of the consummation of the war even desolation will be removed] [when the covenant prevails for many weeks]. And in half of the week the sacrifice and the libation will cease, and in the temple there will be an abomination of desolations until the consummation of a season, and a consummation will be given for the desolation.”



To paraphrase the Old Greek, it says this …

At the fulfillment of the 69th week (after week 69), until the fulfillment of the war, the destruction will not happen, when the covenant is in effect, this state of affairs is for many weeks. At the half way point of week 70 the sacrifices stop, in the temple the abomination of desolations occurs until the fulfillment of the state of affairs, and then the fulfillment of the war happens for the desolation.

 

[CTK]

I can’t argue against both 1260 and 1290 being 3.5 years. I realize if you have a 30 day month that an extra month or days have to be added somewhere to maintain accuracy. However I don’t necessarily think Daniel 12:11 should be viewed in that light, so I’ll leave it as something that is a possibility but can’t be proven one way or the other.

I see you are interpreting Daniel 12:11 as counting backwards from the time of daily sacrifice being removed to the time the AOD is set up is 1290 days. Do you know of any other examples in the Bible where counting backwards is allowed?

If I take a verse such as Leviticus 23:15-16 and count backwards it gives a different day than if I counted forwards.

Leviticus 23:15And ye shall count unto you from the morrow after the sabbath, from the day that ye brought the sheaf of the wave offering; seven sabbaths shall be complete: 16 Even unto the morrow after the seventh sabbath shall ye number fifty days; and ye shall offer a new meat offering unto the LORD.

The word “morrow” <4283> means day after or next day. If we started counting the sabbaths backwards, the next day after the sabbath would be a Friday. That would mean a new meat offering should occur on Friday instead of Sunday.



Also, when I look at the Old Greek version of Daniel 12:12 it implies the 1290 days continue on to day 1335 and a person is blessed who makes it to that day.

Daniel 12:12(OG) Happy is the one who continues, because he will gather one thousand three hundred thirty-five days.

To me this shows the counting of days starts with the sacrifices being taken away, then the AOD, then day 1335 where a person is blessed.

Okay, and thanks.

 

[Douggg]

Well, I don’t think the AOD occurred when Jesus died, I think it was the first sacrifice made after the veil was torn and the rocks rent.

The AoD timing in Matthew 24:15 does not take place until the gospel of the kingdom has been spread to all nations of the world in Matthew 24:14.


Matthew 24:
14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

 

[TribulationSigns]

The AOD is indeed the cross.

No, it does not.

Dan 9:26-27
(26) And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary, and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

Mat 23:37-38
(37) O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!
(38) Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.

Verse 27 talks about the Old Testament congregation where the Messiah the Prince was cut off by his people, Jews. This is how they have lost their kingdom representation which was giving to the Church three days later. It was not Christ or the Cross itself that had become desolate but their congregation because of their rejection of the Messiah. Then at the same time...

Mat 9:27
(27) And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Christ confirmed a covenant with His New Testament congregation, the Church, which lasts until the Consummation which is the Second Coming. The 1,260 period spiritually representing the New Testament period where woman (church) has gone into the world to preach the Gospel.

Rev 12:5-6
(5) And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.
(6) And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

The 1,260 days have NOTHING to do with Christ's ministry in the first century. It is the great commission that the Lord sends the Church (woman) into the wilderness (world). After their testimony for salvation is finished and Christ has secured all Elect through the testimony (Revelation 7:1-4), He will have the sacrifice, and the oblation to cease, Daniel 9:27! And the abomination of desolation will then be set up IN THE CHURCH where the false prophets and christs has replaced Him with their lying signs and wonder. God will judge her prior to Second Coming, Revelation 18. Therefore, you have tried to apply the abomination of desolation to the wrong place, and wrong time.

Both the 1290 and the 1335 days prophecy in Chapter 12 speak to the Messiah. The 1290 days speaks to His first coming while the 1335 speads to His return. God will give Daniel the formula in 1290 for us to use in understanding how to calculate the 1335 days.

Nope, Nope, and Nope!

The 1,260, 1,290, and 1,335 days after Christ confirmed a covenant with His church, which received the kingdom representation from Israel, have NOTHING to do with your private first-century interpretation! The final week of Daniel 9:27 is the WHOLE New Testament period from the Cross to the Second Coming with 1,260 symbolic days of church's ministry which is the same with the testimony of Two Witnesses for 1,260 days, before being killed by the beast and lying dead in the city between 1,260 and 1,290 days. Then on the 1,290th day, the Spirit of life comes upon the Two witnesses to stand up and prophecy that the judgment of the church with abomination of desolation be set up. The judgment of the unfaithful church will last until the Second Coming on the 1,335th day. Blessed are those who wait until 1,335th day when Christ will bring those who have died, and the "alive and remain" Christians will meet with them in the air.

 

[Earburner]

In Matthew 24:15-21, Jesus said for them in Judea when they see the abomination of desolation standing in the holy place, they should flee to the mountains.

According to Jesus' words about his desolation (crucifixion) and restoration (resurrection) in John 2:18-21, many did see that abomination committed against God.

Did any of Jesus's disciples flee to the mountains the day that Jesus was crucified ?

"Flee to the mountains" is a figure of speech, as are the words: "Get out of town".

By Jesus using the term of "seven times seventy" (490 years), he was forewarning the Jews that OC. Israel as a holy nation was at the END of time** of God's Grace and forgiveness. Mat. 18:21-22, 21:43.
Heb. 9
[26] For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but NOW once **in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.
Ever since Pentecost, there is no difference between Jews and Gentiles. ALL must come to Jesus through faith in Him.

Also, the AoD takes place after the gospel has been preached to all nations, in Matthew 24:14. Had that been done, before Jesus was crucified ?

There is nothing prophetically spoken of by God, that reveals the end of the preaching of the gospel. Only the Father shall declare WHEN the end shall be.

Therefore, the preaching of the Gospel will continue to be at the very end also, for without it, men who desire to repent, would not be able to come to repentance.

The Holy Spirit will not be removed from the earth until the visible and Glorious return of Jesus from Heaven, in flaming fire.
KJV- 2 Thes. 1:7-10. Please notice the word "when" written two times in those verses, and what transpires. It will be a simultaneous event!

 

[Earburner]

No, it does not.

Dan 9:26-27
(26) And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary, and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

Mat 23:37-38
(37) O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!
(38) Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.

Verse 27 talks about the Old Testament congregation where the Messiah the Prince was cut off by his people, Jews. This is how they have lost their kingdom representation which was giving to the Church three days later. It was not Christ or the Cross itself that had become desolate but their congregation because of their rejection of the Messiah. Then at the same time...

Mat 9:27
(27) And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Christ confirmed a covenant with His New Testament congregation, the Church, which lasts until the Consummation which is the Second Coming. The 1,260 period spiritually representing the New Testament period where woman (church) has gone into the world to preach the Gospel.

Rev 12:5-6
(5) And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.
(6) And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

The 1,260 days have NOTHING to do with Christ's ministry in the first century. It is the great commission that the Lord sends the Church (woman) into the wilderness (world). After their testimony for salvation is finished and Christ has secured all Elect through the testimony (Revelation 7:1-4), He will have the sacrifice, and the oblation to cease, Daniel 9:27! And the abomination of desolation will then be set up IN THE CHURCH where the false prophets and christs has replaced Him with their lying signs and wonder. God will judge her prior to Second Coming, Revelation 18. Therefore, you have tried to apply the abomination of desolation to the wrong place, and wrong time.



Nope, Nope, and Nope!

The 1,260, 1,290, and 1,335 days after Christ confirmed a covenant with His church, which received the kingdom representation from Israel, have NOTHING to do with your private first-century interpretation! The final week of Daniel 9:27 is the WHOLE New Testament period from the Cross to the Second Coming with 1,260 symbolic days of church's ministry which is the same with the testimony of Two Witnesses for 1,260 days, before being killed by the beast and lying dead in the city between 1,260 and 1,290 days. Then on the 1,290th day, the Spirit of life comes upon the Two witnesses to stand up and prophecy that the judgment of the church with abomination of desolation be set up. The judgment of the unfaithful church will last until the Second Coming on the 1,335th day. Blessed are those who wait until 1,335th day when Christ will bring those who have died, and the "alive and remain" Christians will meet with them in the air.

To: "Nope, Nope, and Nope"
Sorry, but the prophecy of 2300 days is not about weeks or years. It is clearly shown in the Hebrew being consistent of "evening to morning" as one DAY, thus 2300 literal days. It is not to interpreted like that of the "70 week" prophecy of week days being equivalent to years.

The 2300 Day prophecy WAS FULFILLED through Antiochus lV and Judas Maccabeus, with the Temple Sanctuary and Temple being cleansed/restored 45 days later.

All should know that once a prophecy has been fulfilled, it cannot be fulfilled again!!
To do anything else with it, is a fabrication in fantasy.
The book of Daniel was written for OC. Israel, as the book of Rev. is written for Christ's NC. church.