Daniel Chapter 8 - the 2300 evenings and mornings prophecy

[TribulationSigns]

First of all, congratulations on making a timeline chart.

I did not make it. :-)

Of the 70 weeks, the messiah is cutoff after 7 weeks plus 62 weeks. i.e one week to go, the 70th week

The time, times, half time is in three places in the bible
1. Daniel 7:25 the little horn changes the times and laws
2. Daniel 12:7 Daniel's people under duress
3. Revelation 12:14 Satan's persecution of the woman Israel and her seed, the Jews

All of those constitute the second half of the seven years. So you have one of the time, times, half time in the wrong place.

Very unlikely! The 70th week "IS" the covenant week which spans from the Cross to the Second Coming which is the Consummation. It is about God and His people, Daniel 9:24. Not 7 literal years of man-made agreement between a so-called evil man and national Israel.

You referenced Revelation 11 for the time, times, half time. That expression is not found in Revelation 11.

Because you do not compare Scripture with Scripture.

------------------------------------------

You have Messiah the prince - a reference to Jesus - confirming the covenant for one week (i.e. 7 years). Wrong, it is the prince that shall come that shall confirm the covenant for one week

The context of Matthew 9:24-17 is about God and HIS PEOPLE, both the Old Testament Israel and New Testament Church who happen to be Daniel's people IN CHRIST! The prince that shall come is still Messiah the Prince according to the CONTEXT. And His people were the Jews of the Old Testament congregation at that time who came against Him. Not your third-party evil person fantasy.

You show the 1290 days and the 1335 days of Daniel 12:11-12 taking place in the 7 yeas following Jesus's crucifixion.

Here you go again, insisted on 7 literal years.

Again not the length of 7 years. Wrong. The 1290 days and the 1335 days are time of the end - not first century.

LOL!!! The 1,260, 1,290, and 1,335 days are within the Covenant week that started at the Cross to the last day with 1,335th day. Not LITERAL! Christ confirmed the covenant with his blood, and the church received power to preach the gospel for 1,260 days. Their testimony for salvation ends after 1,260 days, and they will be killed for 3 and a half days, bringing us to the 1,290th day when the abomination of desolation will be set up, signifying the judgment of God upon the Church. After that, when we get to the 1,335th day, it will be the Second Coming. For more information, you can read Hebrews 9 and learn how the covenant was confirmed.

On the right side of your chart - you show "the promised inheritance". What are you referring to ?

What do you think?! Christ confirmed a covenant, not for Himself but for His people so we could receive the promised inheritance in the end. It is like a will. When someone dies, his will become a force or become legal. Again go read Hebrews 9 and figure it out.

I think you need to work on your end times understanding of the timeframes in the bible.

LOL. You have no clue what you are talking about with your typical false premillennial doctrine with all the literal numbers, ethnic Jews, national Israel, antichrist, literal locust, scorching sun, water dried up, and the physical wars in the Middle East with all the Christians being raptured out before terrible things happen on Earth so you create timeframes with speculations.

Here is my table listing all of the timeframes for the end times.

Incorrect timeframes based on false interpretations

But the one you posted is not correct.

The Lord judges and I am comfortable with that!

 

[Marty fox]

I apologize, I am not following you. What do you mean that "Jesus already answered that question?

Regarding Daniel 9, please let me know if you agree with this, and if not, please tell me why...

In the 70 weeks of years prophecy (9:24-27), Gabriel will give Daniel the prophecy that addresses God's plan to restore His people and His city back from Babylon after their 70 years in captivity. Everything that was either destroyed or taken away by the Babylonians MUST be fully and completely restored. Thus, we have two sets of interpretations within these 4 verses.

In verses 9:24-25, Daniel is given the "restorative" verses. Withing these two verses, God will reveal how everything will be completely restored once they are allowed to leave Babylon. In 9:24, Daniel is given the most important part of the prophecy - those requirements or elements the Messiah will fulfill during His time on earth. This will be completed during the last week of the 70 weeks prophecy. This final week was "set aside" by God for the Messiah's work of salvation. But verse 9:25 would represent those requirements that must be completed by the Jews themselves. It will be their responsibility to restore the rebuilding of the physical elements; the Temple, the Sanctuary, the walls and the city, etc. Also, it is their responsibility to resinstate the Levitical ceremonies, the daily sacrifices, the 7 holy feast days, etc. So, the Jews are effectively being given 69 weeks of years or 483 literal years to complete their God given mission within His plan of restoration. All of the Jewish elements must be fulfilled BEFORE the arrival of the coming of their Messiah. And please notice, each of the elements that were either taken away or destroyed by the Babylonians will be fully restored in the exact reverse order they were taken away or destroyed. Consequently, the final week of the prophecy, or the 70th week is the time when the very first piece of furniture was taken away - not by the Babylonians, but by Jeremiah. He took the Ark of the Covenant from the Holy of Holies and hid it so it would not be taken away. Consequently, this would be the very last piece of furniture to be restored - the Ark of the Covenant, in the form of the Messiah would restore the Presence of God in the Sanctuary. This is the only element that could not be restored by the Jews.

So, now we have 9:24 and 25 reveals to us the "restorative" elements that must be fulfilled - and they were. The Jews and the Messiah both completed their God given "restorative" mission after the Babylon captivity.

Now we come to the second section of this prophecy. Verses 9:26-27 represent the "destructive" verses within the 70 weeks of years prophecy. And these two verses will not depart in how they are presented from the "restorative verses. They will also reveal the destruction of the physical elements as well as the destruction of the Messiah at the cross. Both the Messiah is described to be "cut off" in the midst of the week (middle of the last week), and the city and the sanctuary will be destroyed by the "people of the prince who is to come." This of course refers to the destruction in 70AD.

But what is so critical is to recognize within these "destructive" verses, those prophecies that speak to the Messiah as opposed to the mere destruction of the physical elements in 70 AD. After the cross, they have absolutely no more value WITHIN GOD'S PLAN OF RESTORATION AND SALVATION. Their specific mission has been fulfilled. The Temple, the Sanctuary, the High PrIest, the Passover Lamb, etc., has now been fulfilled by the Messiah.

ALL of 27 speaks about the cross and the consequences of the cross. They have nothing to do with the physical elements.....
It is Jesus who will confirm the New Covenant for many - not for one week (this is a very bad translation). It specifically refers to the last week. Jesus will confirm the New Covenant DURING (not for a week) the last week of the prophecy for many.

It is Jesus as the Passover Lamb of God who, once and for all, would do away with the need for any further sacrifices and offerings.
It is Jesus and His sacrifice (abomination) and the rejection of His people who will cause God to turn away from His people (He will become desolate to His people for over 2000 years). I am certain you can see just how His rejection by His people causes Him to become "desolate" to them as opposed to a mere destruction of the Temple - the Temple is simply a building, a structure with no more value to God after the cross.

Look forward to your thoughts!

Jesus already answered the question as to what the AOD was in the verses that I provided earlier.

I believe the 70 weeks were fulfilled prior to the first advent

The vision of the angle Gabriel and the prophecy of the 70 weeks were an answer to Daniels prayer in Daniel 9:4-19. Daniels is praying to God and asking for mercy as he knew that the prophet Jeremiah had prophesied that the captivity would last for 70 years. The law of Moses states that they need to repent and turn back to God but the 70 years was almost up and the Jews were still not repenting. We see in the verses below that Daniel is pleading to God for mercy.

Some people think that the 70 weeks start in 445 BC, but this is 160 years after 605 B.C. when the Jews were taken into captivity. If this was the case then the curse of the covenant would not come into effect on those who did not repent-in 535 B.C. when Jeremiah's 70 years prophecy expired. Instead it would come their grandchildren and great grandchildren which would violate the principal of the Law of Moses that children pay the price for their parents and grandparents sins.


It says that the anointed one will come after 62 & 7 weeks but he is cut off after 62 weeks. How can the anointed one if it is one person come 49 years after he is cut off? This proves that it is two different people. If it is Jesus how could He come 49 years after he dies?


Not once in the bible did Jesus or any of the new testament writers ever claim that Jesus fulfilled any parts of the 70 weeks. This would not be missed and if it was Jesus it would prove who Jesus is to the Jews Especially in the book of Matthew. Thus Jesus is not either of the anointed ones in the prophecy of the 70 weeks.

 

[CTK]

Jesus already answered the question as to what the AOD was in the verses that I provided earlier.

I believe the 70 weeks were fulfilled prior to the first advent

Doesn’t the Scriptures say exactly when the 70 weeks of years prophecy will begin? This date is not dependent on anything but the terms provided by God in Daniel 9:25. The “start of the clock” is when they are given the command (by Artaxerses” to build and restore Jerusalem. That command was made in 457 BC. This was exactly 80 years after they left for Jerusalem. This prophecy is independent of the punishment period of the 70 years.

Daniel’s lengthy prayer occurs in the 67th year of their punishment period- the first year under Darius. Daniel was aware of a king Cyrus who would allow them th leave Babylon but he had no knowledge of a coming king Darius.

Daniel’s prayer was a Levitical requirement to God for their forgiveness- it is not enough to simply serve one’s punishment, but one must truly repent and ask God for His forgiveness- “for His own sake.”

After His prayer, God would indeed keep His promise and they would return to Jerusalem within 3 years of when Babylon was conquered.
This ends the discussion of the 70 years punishment.

Now the Jews are back in Jerusalem and they would be there for exactly 80 years BEFORE they would be given the decree to build and restore Jerusalem- 457 BC.

This is when the clock began and there are 3 specific timed sections carved into the 70 weeks (490 literal years) prophecy.

1) within the first 49 years, the Jews would complete the Temple, the walls and streets. This was THEIR God given obligations towards the “RESTORATION” plan after Babylon.

2) then there is a second section coming on the heels of the first 49 years. It will be a separate section of 62 weeks (literal 434 years). In 9:25, Daniel tells us the Messiah will arrive AFTER the 7 and the 62 weeks are finished. Thus, verse 25 tells us He will arrive and begin His ministry AFTER the 69th week is over…. which obviously means He arrives on the first day of the 70th week.

These two verses (24 and 25) ONLY speak of the “restorative” verses- those things that will be restored and completed within the prophecy period of 70 weeks- and they were.


3) now we come to the other side of the prophecy (the downward side of the “Chiastic structure.” The last two verses, 26 and 27 will address the “destructive” events within this prophecy. In verse 25, there was the restoration of the physical elements as well as the coming of the Messiah. In verse 26, it reveals the destruction of the physical element as well as the Messiah. It will be AFTER the second section of 62 weeks or the 434 literal years when these events would occur (and of course, the second section could not begin or end until after the first section of 7 weeks or 49 literal years had been completed.

4) the Messiah would arrive AFTER the end of the 69th week, meaning He arrived in the last week, AND, He would be “cut off” AFTER the end of the 62 week section (within the last week). There is no confusion here. Everything regarding the Messiah would take place AFTER the end of the 69th week.

The vision of the angle Gabriel and the prophecy of the 70 weeks were an answer to Daniels prayer in Daniel 9:4-19. Daniels is praying to God and asking for mercy as he knew that the prophet Jeremiah had prophesied that the captivity would last for 70 years.

Yes.

The law of Moses states that they need to repent and turn back to God but the 70 years was almost up and the Jews were still not repenting. We see in the verses below that Daniel is pleading to God for mercy.

Yes

Some people think that the 70 weeks start in 445 BC, but this is 160 years after 605 B.C. when the Jews were taken into captivity.

The curse applies to the 70 years prophecy, not to the 70 weeks of years prophecy. There would be no 70 weeks of years prophecy if they were not allowed to return to Jerusalem, thus, God did forgive them and allowed them to return.

Because they would return, Gabriel was authorized to give Daniel the prophecy for his people. Daniel had completed his mission during the time in Babylon and would call out his prayer for God’s forgiveness so they could leave.

If this was the case then the curse of the covenant would not come into effect on those who did not repent-in 535 B.C. when Jeremiah's 70 years prophecy expired. Instead it would come their grandchildren and great grandchildren which would violate the principal of the Law of Moses that children pay the price for their parents and grandparents sins.

I really do not understand why you are bringing this in here. Daniel would be representing his people in his prayer for forgiveness. This was accepted by God.

It says that the anointed one will come after 62 & 7 weeks but he is cut off after 62 weeks.

Please see above. He arrived AFTER the end of the second timed section (in the last week), and He was crucified AFTER the end of the second timed section (last week).
He arrived in day 1 of the 70th week, and He was crucified on day 1260 of the last week. His ministry lasted 3.5 years WITHIN the last week.

How can the anointed one if it is one person come 49 years after he is cut off? This proves that it is two different people. If it is Jesus how could He come 49 years after he dies?

No, one Messiah who came on the 1st day of the 70th week and died 1260 days later.

Not once in the bible did Jesus or any of the new testament writers ever claim that Jesus fulfilled any parts of the 70 weeks.

Verse 9:24 are the “PARTS” you are referring to. Are you saying that Jesus did not fulfill His God given mission and “set up” His church?

If so, please explain what, if anything He did accomplish. What was His purpose to come at the time prophesied? Do you believe He was our Messiah? Do you believe He was resurrected? This is so difficult for me to hear… please explain if you can. (And I apologize in advance, but will you share what religion you are?)

This would not be missed and if it was Jesus it would prove who Jesus is to the Jews Especially in the book of Matthew. Thus Jesus is not either of the anointed ones in the prophecy of the 70 weeks.

Again, this is quite disturbing to me.. I respect you have the right to believe your own interpretations and that is fine, but I respectfully ask you might share them since I am at a lose in trying to understand your comments.

Thanks so much.

 

[Douggg]

2) then there is a second section coming on the heels of the first 49 years. It will be a separate section of 62 weeks (literal 434 years). In 9:25, Daniel tells us the Messiah will arrive AFTER the 7 and the 62 weeks are finished. Thus, verse 25 tells us He will arrive and begin His ministry AFTER the 69th week is over…. which obviously means He arrives on the first day of the 70th week.

It says nothing in Daniel 9 about the length of the messiah's ministry.

Jesus arrived in Jerusalem, hailed as the King of Israel (the messiah) in John 12:12-15, 4 days near the end of the the 69th week. 4days later, Jesus was crucified, cutoff at the end of the 69th heptad (group of 7 years)

Arriving and being cutoff in Jerusalem in the same Passover 7day week, at the end of the 69th heptad (group of 7 years).

The 70th heptad (group of 7 years) is the 7 years in Ezekiel 39:9, following the Gog/Magog event - near at hand.

 

[Davidpt]

Jesus already answered the question as to what the AOD was in the verses that I provided earlier.

I believe the 70 weeks were fulfilled prior to the first advent

The vision of the angle Gabriel and the prophecy of the 70 weeks were an answer to Daniels prayer in Daniel 9:4-19. Daniels is praying to God and asking for mercy as he knew that the prophet Jeremiah had prophesied that the captivity would last for 70 years. The law of Moses states that they need to repent and turn back to God but the 70 years was almost up and the Jews were still not repenting. We see in the verses below that Daniel is pleading to God for mercy.

Some people think that the 70 weeks start in 445 BC, but this is 160 years after 605 B.C. when the Jews were taken into captivity. If this was the case then the curse of the covenant would not come into effect on those who did not repent-in 535 B.C. when Jeremiah's 70 years prophecy expired. Instead it would come their grandchildren and great grandchildren which would violate the principal of the Law of Moses that children pay the price for their parents and grandparents sins.


It says that the anointed one will come after 62 & 7 weeks but he is cut off after 62 weeks. How can the anointed one if it is one person come 49 years after he is cut off? This proves that it is two different people. If it is Jesus how could He come 49 years after he dies?


Not once in the bible did Jesus or any of the new testament writers ever claim that Jesus fulfilled any parts of the 70 weeks. This would not be missed and if it was Jesus it would prove who Jesus is to the Jews Especially in the book of Matthew. Thus Jesus is not either of the anointed ones in the prophecy of the 70 weeks.

The consensus seems to be that Jerusalem and the first temple were destroyed in 587-586 BC. But even if that's not correct and it's 20 years earlier instead, even that doesn't help your interpretation one way or the other.

Daniel 9:25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.


Common sense alone says that the beginning of the 70 weeks can't precede 587-586 BC, obviously, undeniably. We at least know that much since no reasonable person could propose that the city needs rebuilt and restored before it is even destroyed first. An unreasonable person could maybe propose that, but no reasonable person could, that being the point. If that is not an example of a contradiction I don't know what is, that the city needs restored and rebuilt before it is even destroyed first.

Remind us again as to when you have this 490 years beginning and when you have it ending. For example. 490 years after 586 BC gets us to maybe 96 BC. Nothing significant about that era of time. It seems to me that you maybe need the 490 years to end in 167 BC, the days of A4E? If that's the case, in order to do that that would mean the 70 weeks need to begin maybe 683 BC or so, IOW, a hundred years before the city is even destroyed, therefore, making utter nonsense out of Daniel 9:25 in the process. As if it is reasonable that the city needs restored and rebuilt before it is even destroyed first.

If the 70 year captivity began in 586 BC this would mean it ended in 516 BC. If we then subtract 490 years from that, we end up at around 26 BC, yet another insignificant date. Plus it's not even close to 167 BC since that era of time was 141 years earlier. Obviously, at this point it is telling us we need to find a later date than 516 BC in order to have a logical place the 490 years can begin from and lead to something significant 483 years later. Keeping in mind that Daniel 9:25 is only involving the first 483 years and at the end of the 483 years something significant takes place.

So remind us again when your view has this 490 years beginning and when your view has them ending. Let's just debunk your view and get it over with so we don't have to waste any more time entertaining nonsensical views, especially by professed Christians who are insisting the 70 weeks have nothing to do with Christ. I don't know how anyone can label themselves a Christian when they are denying one of the most obvious prophecies in the Bible, this 70 weeks, that it involves Christ. That's something unbelieving Jews would deny. But no professed Christian should. And if you feel offended by anything I said in this post, I simply don't care. Not my problem since I'm not the one insisting, like an unbelieving Jew does, that the 70 weeks don't involve Christ.

 

[CTK]

The consensus seems to be that Jerusalem and the first temple were destroyed in 587-586 BC. But even if that's not correct and it's 20 years earlier instead, even that doesn't help your interpretation one way or the other.

Daniel 9:25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.


Common sense alone says that the beginning of the 70 weeks can't precede 587-586 BC, obviously, undeniably. We at least know that much since no reasonable person could propose that the city needs rebuilt and restored before it is even destroyed first. An unreasonable person could maybe propose that, but no reasonable person could, that being the point. If that is not an example of a contradiction I don't know what is, that the city needs restored and rebuilt before it is even destroyed first.

Remind us again as to when you have this 490 years beginning and when you have it ending. For example. 490 years after 586 BC gets us to maybe 96 BC. Nothing significant about that era of time. It seems to me that you maybe need the 490 years to end in 167 BC, the days of A4E? If that's the case, in order to do that that would mean the 70 weeks need to begin maybe 683 BC or so, IOW, a hundred years before the city is even destroyed, therefore, making utter nonsense out of Daniel 9:25 in the process. As if it is reasonable that the city needs restored and rebuilt before it is even destroyed first.

If the 70 year captivity began in 586 BC this would mean it ended in 516 BC. If we then subtract 490 years from that, we end up at around 26 BC, yet another insignificant date. Plus it's not even close to 167 BC since that era of time was 141 years earlier. Obviously, at this point it is telling us we need to find a later date than 516 BC in order to have a logical place the 490 years can begin from and lead to something significant 483 years later. Keeping in mind that Daniel 9:25 is only involving the first 483 years and at the end of the 483 years something significant takes place.

So remind us again when your view has this 490 years beginning and when your view has them ending. Let's just debunk your view and get it over with so we don't have to waste any more time entertaining nonsensical views, especially by professed Christians who are insisting the 70 weeks have nothing to do with Christ. I don't know how anyone can label themselves a Christian when they are denying one of the most obvious prophecies in the Bible, this 70 weeks, that it involves Christ. That's something unbelieving Jews would deny. But no professed Christian should. And if you feel offended by anything I said in this post, I simply don't care. Not my problem since I'm not the one insisting, like an unbelieving Jew does, that the 70 weeks don't involve Christ.

I will bet you got a A+ in all of your math classes.

 

[Marty fox]

Yes I am a Christian and yes Jesus is both God and Messiah. Jesus did accomplish His mission and set up His church. Having a different opinion of the 70 weeks doesn't mean that one doesn't recognize that Jesus is God.

Yes the Jews did go back and rebuild Jerusalem but they did so not as a free people but under foreign Controle this is a huge difference. The reason for this is that they didn't repent within the 70 years but were only given grace and mercy due to Daniels repentance and prayer.

If you were a Jew living during the time of the Maccabees what would you think Daniel was talking about?

Here is my study on the 70 weeks

The vision of the angle Gabriel and the prophecy of the 70 weeks were an answer to Daniels prayer in Daniel 9:4-19. Daniels is praying to God and asking for mercy as he knew that the prophet Jeremiah had prophesied that the captivity would last for 70 years. The law of Moses states that they need to repent and turn back to God but the 70 years was almost up and the Jews were still not repenting. We see in the verses below that Daniel is pleading to God for mercy.

Daniel 9:17-19
17 “Now, our God, hear the prayers and petitions of your servant. For your sake, Lord, look with favor on your desolate sanctuary. 18 Give ear, our God, and hear; open your eyes and see the desolation of the city that bears your Name. We do not make requests of you because we are righteous, but because of your great mercy. 19 Lord, listen! Lord, forgive! Lord, hear and act! For your sake, my God, do not delay, because your city and your people bear your Name.”

The prophecy given by the angel Gabriel

Daniel 9:24-27
24 “Seventy ‘sevens’ are decreed for your people and your holy city to finish transgression, to put an end to sin, to atone for wickedness, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the Most Holy Place. 25 “Know and understand this: From the time the word goes out to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until the Anointed One the ruler, comes, there will be seven ‘sevens,’ and sixty-two ‘sevens.’ It will be rebuilt with streets and a trench, but in times of trouble. 26 After the sixty-two ‘sevens,’ the Anointed One will be put to death and will have nothing The people of the ruler who will come will destroy the city and the sanctuary. The end will come like a flood: War will continue until the end, and desolations have been decreed. 27 He will confirm a covenant with many for one ‘seven.’ In the middle of the ‘seven’ he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And at the temple he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him.

The 70 years would become 70 weeks of foreign control. The Jews would go back and rebuild Jerusalem but not as free people but under foreign control.


The 70 weeks are 490 years of prophecy.

The command by the angel Gabriel is to know and understand the prophecy. The decree (the word to go and rebuild Jerusalem) would trigger the understanding of the time line of the vision. Thus the decree of king Cyrus is the key to know and understand the 70 weeks. The decree of king Cyrus gives us a concrete date and point in time of the 70 weeks.

Below are the time lines of each set of weeks

605 B.C. The start of the 70 weeks Daniel and the Jews are taken into captivity. (time goes backwards from the time of Daniel vision)

587 B.C. Jerusalem is destroyed by Babylon the start of the 7 weeks (runs parallel to some of the 62 weeks)

170/1 B.C. Onias 3rd is murdered (cut off and has nothing) the second anointed one the last of the Zadokite priesthood which was the start of the 70th week.

538 B.C. King Cyrus issues a decree to go and rebuild Jerusalem and Joshua (the first anointed one who was to come) goes back to rebuild Jerusalem. This is the end of the 7 weeks which was 49 years after 587 B.C. when Jerusalem was destroyed.


167 B.C. Antiochus Epiphanies 4th desecrates the temple ½ way through the 70th week. The abomination that caused desolation.

164/3 B.C. Antiochus Epiphanies 4th dies and the temple sacrifice is reestablished the end of the 70th week. (the end is poured out on him)

War continued during and until the end of the 70th week

The purposes of the 70 weeks in Daniel 9:24 were fulfilled by the Jews who remained loyal to God and resisted apostasy.

605 B.C.-171 B.C. 62 weeks or 434 years

587 B.C.-538 B.C. 7 weeks or 49 years

170/1 B.C.-164/3 B.C. 70th week or 7 years

Some versions of the bible use the word Messiah instead of the anointed one but that was a mistake and not the original meaning.

Below are three main points to show that Jesus wasn't any part of the prophecy of the 70 weeks


1-Some people think that the 70 weeks start in 445 BC, but this is 160 years after 605 B.C. when the Jews were taken into captivity. If this was the case then the curse of the covenant would not come into effect on those who did not repent-in 535 B.C. when Jeremiah's 70 years prophecy expired. Instead it would come their grandchildren and great grandchildren which would violate the principal of the Law of Moses that children pay the price for their parents and grandparents sins.


2-It says that the anointed one will come after 62 & 7 weeks but he is cut off after 62 weeks. How can the anointed one if it is one person come 49 years after he is cut off? This proves that it is two different people. If it is Jesus how could He come 49 years after he dies?


3-Not once in the bible did Jesus or any of the new testament writers ever claim that Jesus fulfilled any parts of the 70 weeks. This would not be missed and if it was Jesus it would prove who Jesus is to the Jews Especially in the book of Matthew. Thus Jesus is not either of the anointed ones in the prophecy of the 70 weeks.

 

[Marty fox]

Doesn’t the Scriptures say exactly when the 70 weeks of years prophecy will begin? This date is not dependent on anything but the terms provided by God in Daniel 9:25. The “start of the clock” is when they are given the command (by Artaxerses” to build and restore Jerusalem. That command was made in 457 BC. This was exactly 80 years after they left for Jerusalem. This prophecy is independent of the punishment period of the 70 years.

Daniel’s lengthy prayer occurs in the 67th year of their punishment period- the first year under Darius. Daniel was aware of a king Cyrus who would allow them th leave Babylon but he had no knowledge of a coming king Darius.

Daniel’s prayer was a Levitical requirement to God for their forgiveness- it is not enough to simply serve one’s punishment, but one must truly repent and ask God for His forgiveness- “for His own sake.”

After His prayer, God would indeed keep His promise and they would return to Jerusalem within 3 years of when Babylon was conquered.
This ends the discussion of the 70 years punishment.

Now the Jews are back in Jerusalem and they would be there for exactly 80 years BEFORE they would be given the decree to build and restore Jerusalem- 457 BC.

This is when the clock began and there are 3 specific timed sections carved into the 70 weeks (490 literal years) prophecy.

1) within the first 49 years, the Jews would complete the Temple, the walls and streets. This was THEIR God given obligations towards the “RESTORATION” plan after Babylon.

2) then there is a second section coming on the heels of the first 49 years. It will be a separate section of 62 weeks (literal 434 years). In 9:25, Daniel tells us the Messiah will arrive AFTER the 7 and the 62 weeks are finished. Thus, verse 25 tells us He will arrive and begin His ministry AFTER the 69th week is over…. which obviously means He arrives on the first day of the 70th week.

These two verses (24 and 25) ONLY speak of the “restorative” verses- those things that will be restored and completed within the prophecy period of 70 weeks- and they were.


3) now we come to the other side of the prophecy (the downward side of the “Chiastic structure.” The last two verses, 26 and 27 will address the “destructive” events within this prophecy. In verse 25, there was the restoration of the physical elements as well as the coming of the Messiah. In verse 26, it reveals the destruction of the physical element as well as the Messiah. It will be AFTER the second section of 62 weeks or the 434 literal years when these events would occur (and of course, the second section could not begin or end until after the first section of 7 weeks or 49 literal years had been completed.

4) the Messiah would arrive AFTER the end of the 69th week, meaning He arrived in the last week, AND, He would be “cut off” AFTER the end of the 62 week section (within the last week). There is no confusion here. Everything regarding the Messiah would take place AFTER the end of the 69th week.



Yes.


Yes

The curse applies to the 70 years prophecy, not to the 70 weeks of years prophecy. There would be no 70 weeks of years prophecy if they were not allowed to return to Jerusalem, thus, God did forgive them and allowed them to return.

Because they would return, Gabriel was authorized to give Daniel the prophecy for his people. Daniel had completed his mission during the time in Babylon and would call out his prayer for God’s forgiveness so they could leave.



I really do not understand why you are bringing this in here. Daniel would be representing his people in his prayer for forgiveness. This was accepted by God.



Please see above. He arrived AFTER the end of the second timed section (in the last week), and He was crucified AFTER the end of the second timed section (last week).
He arrived in day 1 of the 70th week, and He was crucified on day 1260 of the last week. His ministry lasted 3.5 years WITHIN the last week.




No, one Messiah who came on the 1st day of the 70th week and died 1260 days later.

Verse 9:24 are the “PARTS” you are referring to. Are you saying that Jesus did not fulfill His God given mission and “set up” His church?

If so, please explain what, if anything He did accomplish. What was His purpose to come at the time prophesied? Do you believe He was our Messiah? Do you believe He was resurrected? This is so difficult for me to hear… please explain if you can. (And I apologize in advance, but will you share what religion you are?)


Again, this is quite disturbing to me.. I respect you have the right to believe your own interpretations and that is fine, but I respectfully ask you might share them since I am at a lose in trying to understand your comments.

Thanks so much.

Please see post#47 it would allow me to reply to this post

 

[Marty fox]

The consensus seems to be that Jerusalem and the first temple were destroyed in 587-586 BC. But even if that's not correct and it's 20 years earlier instead, even that doesn't help your interpretation one way or the other.

Daniel 9:25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.


Common sense alone says that the beginning of the 70 weeks can't precede 587-586 BC, obviously, undeniably. We at least know that much since no reasonable person could propose that the city needs rebuilt and restored before it is even destroyed first. An unreasonable person could maybe propose that, but no reasonable person could, that being the point. If that is not an example of a contradiction I don't know what is, that the city needs restored and rebuilt before it is even destroyed first.

Remind us again as to when you have this 490 years beginning and when you have it ending. For example. 490 years after 586 BC gets us to maybe 96 BC. Nothing significant about that era of time. It seems to me that you maybe need the 490 years to end in 167 BC, the days of A4E? If that's the case, in order to do that that would mean the 70 weeks need to begin maybe 683 BC or so, IOW, a hundred years before the city is even destroyed, therefore, making utter nonsense out of Daniel 9:25 in the process. As if it is reasonable that the city needs restored and rebuilt before it is even destroyed first.

If the 70 year captivity began in 586 BC this would mean it ended in 516 BC. If we then subtract 490 years from that, we end up at around 26 BC, yet another insignificant date. Plus it's not even close to 167 BC since that era of time was 141 years earlier. Obviously, at this point it is telling us we need to find a later date than 516 BC in order to have a logical place the 490 years can begin from and lead to something significant 483 years later. Keeping in mind that Daniel 9:25 is only involving the first 483 years and at the end of the 483 years something significant takes place.

So remind us again when your view has this 490 years beginning and when your view has them ending. Let's just debunk your view and get it over with so we don't have to waste any more time entertaining nonsensical views, especially by professed Christians who are insisting the 70 weeks have nothing to do with Christ. I don't know how anyone can label themselves a Christian when they are denying one of the most obvious prophecies in the Bible, this 70 weeks, that it involves Christ. That's something unbelieving Jews would deny. But no professed Christian should. And if you feel offended by anything I said in this post, I simply don't care. Not my problem since I'm not the one insisting, like an unbelieving Jew does, that the 70 weeks don't involve Christ.

So you don't care if you offend someone, and you are questioning if I'm a Christian? You shouldn't assume the worst in people.

Having a different interpretation about nonessential scripture doesn't give you the right to question if I am a Christian or not.

Many Christians agree with my view and have even written books about it context, history and the audience of who books of the bible are written to help reveal the truth .

See post #47 for your answered questions.

 

[CTK]

Yes I am a Christian and yes Jesus is both God and Messiah. Jesus did accomplish His mission and set up His church. Having a different opinion of the 70 weeks doesn't mean that one doesn't recognize that Jesus is God.

Yes the Jews did go back and rebuild Jerusalem but they did so not as a free people but under foreign Controle this is a huge difference. The reason for this is that they didn't repent within the 70 years but were only given grace and mercy due to Daniels repentance and prayer.

If you were a Jew living during the time of the Maccabees what would you think Daniel was talking about?

Here is my study on the 70 weeks

The vision of the angle Gabriel and the prophecy of the 70 weeks were an answer to Daniels prayer in Daniel 9:4-19. Daniels is praying to God and asking for mercy as he knew that the prophet Jeremiah had prophesied that the captivity would last for 70 years. The law of Moses states that they need to repent and turn back to God but the 70 years was almost up and the Jews were still not repenting. We see in the verses below that Daniel is pleading to God for mercy.

Daniel 9:17-19
17 “Now, our God, hear the prayers and petitions of your servant. For your sake, Lord, look with favor on your desolate sanctuary. 18 Give ear, our God, and hear; open your eyes and see the desolation of the city that bears your Name. We do not make requests of you because we are righteous, but because of your great mercy. 19 Lord, listen! Lord, forgive! Lord, hear and act! For your sake, my God, do not delay, because your city and your people bear your Name.”

The prophecy given by the angel Gabriel

Daniel 9:24-27
24 “Seventy ‘sevens’ are decreed for your people and your holy city to finish transgression, to put an end to sin, to atone for wickedness, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the Most Holy Place. 25 “Know and understand this: From the time the word goes out to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until the Anointed One the ruler, comes, there will be seven ‘sevens,’ and sixty-two ‘sevens.’ It will be rebuilt with streets and a trench, but in times of trouble. 26 After the sixty-two ‘sevens,’ the Anointed One will be put to death and will have nothing The people of the ruler who will come will destroy the city and the sanctuary. The end will come like a flood: War will continue until the end, and desolations have been decreed. 27 He will confirm a covenant with many for one ‘seven.’ In the middle of the ‘seven’ he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And at the temple he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him.

The 70 years would become 70 weeks of foreign control. The Jews would go back and rebuild Jerusalem but not as free people but under foreign control.


The 70 weeks are 490 years of prophecy.

The command by the angel Gabriel is to know and understand the prophecy. The decree (the word to go and rebuild Jerusalem) would trigger the understanding of the time line of the vision. Thus the decree of king Cyrus is the key to know and understand the 70 weeks. The decree of king Cyrus gives us a concrete date and point in time of the 70 weeks.

Below are the time lines of each set of weeks

605 B.C. The start of the 70 weeks Daniel and the Jews are taken into captivity. (time goes backwards from the time of Daniel vision)

587 B.C. Jerusalem is destroyed by Babylon the start of the 7 weeks (runs parallel to some of the 62 weeks)

170/1 B.C. Onias 3rd is murdered (cut off and has nothing) the second anointed one the last of the Zadokite priesthood which was the start of the 70th week.

538 B.C. King Cyrus issues a decree to go and rebuild Jerusalem and Joshua (the first anointed one who was to come) goes back to rebuild Jerusalem. This is the end of the 7 weeks which was 49 years after 587 B.C. when Jerusalem was destroyed.


167 B.C. Antiochus Epiphanies 4th desecrates the temple ½ way through the 70th week. The abomination that caused desolation.

164/3 B.C. Antiochus Epiphanies 4th dies and the temple sacrifice is reestablished the end of the 70th week. (the end is poured out on him)

War continued during and until the end of the 70th week

The purposes of the 70 weeks in Daniel 9:24 were fulfilled by the Jews who remained loyal to God and resisted apostasy.

605 B.C.-171 B.C. 62 weeks or 434 years

587 B.C.-538 B.C. 7 weeks or 49 years

170/1 B.C.-164/3 B.C. 70th week or 7 years

Some versions of the bible use the word Messiah instead of the anointed one but that was a mistake and not the original meaning.

Below are three main points to show that Jesus wasn't any part of the prophecy of the 70 weeks


1-Some people think that the 70 weeks start in 445 BC, but this is 160 years after 605 B.C. when the Jews were taken into captivity. If this was the case then the curse of the covenant would not come into effect on those who did not repent-in 535 B.C. when Jeremiah's 70 years prophecy expired. Instead it would come their grandchildren and great grandchildren which would violate the principal of the Law of Moses that children pay the price for their parents and grandparents sins.


2-It says that the anointed one will come after 62 & 7 weeks but he is cut off after 62 weeks. How can the anointed one if it is one person come 49 years after he is cut off? This proves that it is two different people. If it is Jesus how could He come 49 years after he dies?


3-Not once in the bible did Jesus or any of the new testament writers ever claim that Jesus fulfilled any parts of the 70 weeks. This would not be missed and if it was Jesus it would prove who Jesus is to the Jews Especially in the book of Matthew. Thus Jesus is not either of the anointed ones in the prophecy of the 70 weeks.

Thank you for taking the time to provide your thoughts and interpretations.

 

[Marty fox]

Thank you for taking the time to provide your thoughts and interpretations.

Your very welcome and many Christians agree with my view and have even written books about it context, history and the audience of who books of the bible are written to help reveal the truth.

 

[Davidpt]

I will bet you got a A+ in all of your math classes.

I don't know if you are being serious or not, but math was my favorite subject, though. I enjoyed the challenge. I don't recall getting A+s, more like A-s through B-s, somewhere in that range.

As to the OP, the following is something I have noted but I have yet to make perfect sense of it all. All I know is that none of it should be taken in the literal sense, that it's involving a literal brick and mortar temple. Therefore, applying some of these things to the days of A4E is not reasonable since that was involving a literal brick and mortar temple, but that which is involving the little horn isn't involving a literal temple.

I tend to read the following like such, right or wrong.

------------------------------------
Daniel 8:11 Yea, he magnified himself even to the prince of the host, and by him the daily sacrifice was taken away, and the place of his sanctuary was cast down.

Daniel 11:31 And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate

Daniel 12:11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

Daniel 8:12 And an host was given him against the daily sacrifice by reason of transgression, and it cast down the truth to the ground; and it practised, and prospered.

Daniel 8:13 Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake, How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot?

Daniel 12:7 And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.

Daniel 8:14 And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.

Daniel 12:12 Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.

Daniel 12:13 But go thou thy way till the end be: for thou shalt rest, and stand in thy lot at the end of the days.
-----------------------------------------------

In my mind, all of these things are connected, thus involving the same things, the same era of time.

There are several clues in Daniel 8 that make it unreasonable to apply any of the following to the days of A4E.

Daniel 8:9 And out of one of them came forth a little horn, which waxed exceeding great, toward the south, and toward the east, and toward the pleasant land.
10 And it waxed great, even to the host of heaven; and it cast down some of the host and of the stars to the ground, and stamped upon them.
11 Yea, he magnified himself even to the prince of the host, and by him the daily sacrifice was taken away, and the place of his sanctuary was cast down.
12 And an host was given him against the daily sacrifice by reason of transgression, and it cast down the truth to the ground; and it practised, and prospered.
13 Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake, How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot?
14 And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.
Daniel 8:23 And in the latter time of their kingdom, when the transgressors are come to the full, a king of fierce countenance, and understanding dark sentences, shall stand up.
24 And his power shall be mighty, but not by his own power: and he shall destroy wonderfully, and shall prosper, and practise, and shall destroy the mighty and the holy people.
25 And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand.
26 And the vision of the evening and the morning which was told is true: wherefore shut thou up the vision; for it shall be for many days.
27 And I Daniel fainted, and was sick certain days; afterward I rose up, and did the king's business; and I was astonished at the vision, but none understood it.

Let's begin with verse 27 and let's assume the days of A4E are meant in all the above verses. One is then to believe, that if this is involving ancient times in Daniel's near future involving a literal temple that this would then equal this---and I was astonished at the vision, but none understood it? But if it's not involving a literal temple, it then makes perfect sense why Daniel reacted like he did, and why no one understood the vision. Therefore, this alone means these 2300 days are not involving A4E but are involving something else.

IMO, it is connected with 2 Thessalonians 2:4 and what all that involves, for one. Which, BTW, I don't take 2 Thessalonians 2:4 in a literal sense. I tend to think it's involving the same temple that 1 Corinthians 3:17 is involving. Where I then see that involving Matthew 24:15-21 which I see involving Daniel 12:1, where Daniel 12:1 is involving what Daniel 12:11 is involving. And the fact a resurrection event is at the end of this, no way can any of this be involving the days of A4E nor 70 AD. No resurrection event followed any of those things.

Daniel 8:17 So he came near where I stood: and when he came, I was afraid, and fell upon my face: but he said unto me, Understand, O son of man: for at the time of the end shall be the vision.

This is yet another clue. The time of the end couldn't possibly be meaning in the days of A4E. The fact the time of the end leads to the 1335th day, the literal end of this age, meaning when Daniel shall stand in his lot at the end of the days. The fact there are no more days mentioned after Daniel 12:12, it only stands to reason that day 1335 is meaning the end of the days, which included the 2300 days, the 1290 days, and the time, times, and the dividing of time(1260 days). And I still can't make sense of all these days, as to how they fit together. Applying some of them or all of them to the days of A4E is not an option, in my mind. Therefore, the days of A4E couldn't possibly explain any of these days.

 

[grafted branch]

Your very welcome and many Christians agree with my view and have even written books about it context, history and the audience of who books of the bible are written to help reveal the truth.

Hey Marty, do you take into consideration the Old Greek version of Daniel? Here is some information about the Old Greek in case you’re not familiar with it.

The Old Greek version of the book of Daniel was used in the first century. The Jewish scholar Theodotian translated from Hebrew to Greek another version in the second century which gradually replaced the Old Greek version that was previously used. By the fourth century the Old Greek was completely replaced and eventually lost. In the 1770’s it was discovered in the Codex Chisianus 88. We now have discovered two additional copies.

Ok, some people are suggesting that the Hebrew text which was used by Theodotian may have been deliberately corrupted at the end of the first century. Various problems show up when the two translations are viewed side by side. Here is the controversial Daniel 9:26-27 side by side …



Old Greek

Daniel 9:26And after seven and seventy and sixty-two weeks, an anointing will be removed and will not be. And a king of nations will demolish the city and the sanctuary along with the anointed one, and his consummation will come with wrath even until the time of consummation. He will be attacked through war. 27And the covenant will prevail for many, and it will return again and be rebuilt broad and long. And at the consummation of times [even after seven years and seventy times and sixty-two times] [until the time of the consummation of the war even desolation will be removed] [when the covenant prevails for many weeks]. And in half of the week the sacrifice and the libation will cease, and in the temple there will be an abomination of desolations until the consummation of a season, and a consummation will be given for the desolation.”



Theodotian

Daniel 9:26And after the sixty-two weeks, an anointing will be destroyed, and there is no judgment in it. And it will destroy the city and the sanctuary along with the leader who is to come. And they will be cut off by a flood, and there will be annihilations to the finish of a shortened war. 27And it will strengthen a covenant with many, one week, and by half of the week sacrifice and libation will cease, and in the temple there will be an abomination of desolations even until the consummation, and consummation will be given for the desolation.”



I’m just wondering if you consider both versions when studying Daniel.

 

[Davidpt]

Your very welcome and many Christians agree with my view and have even written books about it context, history and the audience of who books of the bible are written to help reveal the truth.

What I don't get is how you think you have figured out the millennium properly, and where all that is supposed to fit, when you can't even remotely figure out these 70 weeks properly and where all that is supposed to fit. And so what if there are other professed Christians that agree with your view? That still doesn't make your view correct.

The 70 weeks can't begin until sometime after the city and temple are destroyed first. That is a fact. That is not disputable, that's common sense. 490 years after the city and temple is destroyed is nowhere near 167 BC, it is after. Even if you started the 70 weeks the moment both are destroyed, it still can't lead to 167 BC. Keeping in mind, until the city and temple are destroyed first, no city and temple needs restoring and rebuilding in the meantime. Clearly, the 70 weeks involve restoring the city and temple that was destroyed earlier. Nothing in Daniel 9:24-27 is pertaining to anything before the city and temple were destroyed.

 

[Marty fox]

What I don't get is how you think you have figured out the millennium properly, and where all that is supposed to fit, when you can't even remotely figure out these 70 weeks properly and where all that is supposed to fit. And so what if there are other professed Christians that agree with your view? That still doesn't make your view correct.

The 70 weeks can't begin until sometime after the city and temple are destroyed first. That is a fact. That is not disputable, that's common sense. 490 years after the city and temple is destroyed is nowhere near 167 BC, it is after. Even if you started the 70 weeks the moment both are destroyed, it still can't lead to 167 BC. Keeping in mind, until the city and temple are destroyed first, no city and temple needs restoring and rebuilding in the meantime. Clearly, the 70 weeks involve restoring the city and temple that was destroyed earlier. Nothing in Daniel 9:24-27 is pertaining to anything before the city and temple were destroyed.

Daniel 9
24 “Seventy ‘sevens’[c] are decreed for your people and your holy city to finish[d] transgression, to put an end to sin, to atone for wickedness, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the Most Holy Place.[e]

This says nothing about the temple and city being destroyed at the beginning of the 70 weeks

Did you see my time line in post #47? It shows that the 70 weeks started with the captivity here it is again

Below are the time lines of each set of weeks

605 B.C. The start of the 70 weeks Daniel and the Jews are taken into captivity. (time goes backwards from the time of Daniel vision)

587 B.C. Jerusalem is destroyed by Babylon the start of the 7 weeks (runs parallel to some of the 62 weeks)

170/1 B.C. Onias 3rd is murdered (cut off and has nothing) the second anointed one the last of the Zadokite priesthood which was the start of the 70th week.

538 B.C. King Cyrus issues a decree to go and rebuild Jerusalem and Joshua (the first anointed one who was to come) goes back to rebuild Jerusalem. This is the end of the 7 weeks which was 49 years after 587 B.C. when Jerusalem was destroyed.

167 B.C. Antiochus Epiphanies 4th desecrates the temple ½ way through the 70th week. The abomination that caused desolation.

164/3 B.C. Antiochus Epiphanies 4th dies and the temple sacrifice is reestablished the end of the 70th week. (the end is poured out on him)

605 B.C.-171 B.C. 62 weeks or 434 years

587 B.C.-538 B.C. 7 weeks or 49 years

170/1 B.C.-164/3 B.C. 70th week or 7 years

 

[Marty fox]

Hey Marty, do you take into consideration the Old Greek version of Daniel? Here is some information about the Old Greek in case you’re not familiar with it.

The Old Greek version of the book of Daniel was used in the first century. The Jewish scholar Theodotian translated from Hebrew to Greek another version in the second century which gradually replaced the Old Greek version that was previously used. By the fourth century the Old Greek was completely replaced and eventually lost. In the 1770’s it was discovered in the Codex Chisianus 88. We now have discovered two additional copies.

Ok, some people are suggesting that the Hebrew text which was used by Theodotian may have been deliberately corrupted at the end of the first century. Various problems show up when the two translations are viewed side by side. Here is the controversial Daniel 9:26-27 side by side …



Old Greek

Daniel 9:26And after seven and seventy and sixty-two weeks, an anointing will be removed and will not be. And a king of nations will demolish the city and the sanctuary along with the anointed one, and his consummation will come with wrath even until the time of consummation. He will be attacked through war. 27And the covenant will prevail for many, and it will return again and be rebuilt broad and long. And at the consummation of times [even after seven years and seventy times and sixty-two times] [until the time of the consummation of the war even desolation will be removed] [when the covenant prevails for many weeks]. And in half of the week the sacrifice and the libation will cease, and in the temple there will be an abomination of desolations until the consummation of a season, and a consummation will be given for the desolation.”



Theodotian

Daniel 9:26And after the sixty-two weeks, an anointing will be destroyed, and there is no judgment in it. And it will destroy the city and the sanctuary along with the leader who is to come. And they will be cut off by a flood, and there will be annihilations to the finish of a shortened war. 27And it will strengthen a covenant with many, one week, and by half of the week sacrifice and libation will cease, and in the temple there will be an abomination of desolations even until the consummation, and consummation will be given for the desolation.”



I’m just wondering if you consider both versions when studying Daniel.

No I have never heard of that but its sure confusing to read I will have to study it thanks

 

[grafted branch]

No I have never heard of that but its sure confusing to read I will have to study it thanks

Here’s the thing that makes me want to take a closer look at the OG version, the KJV was commissioned to be written in 1604 and was published in 1611, the OG was lost at that time so there was no way for them to even consider it. Also the fact that the OG was written prior to the first century and used during that time is a compelling reason to take a closer look at it.

 

[Earburner]

Please see above. He arrived AFTER the end of the second timed section (in the last week), and He was crucified AFTER the end of the second timed section (last week).
He arrived in day 1 of the 70th week, and He was crucified on day 1260 of the last week. His ministry lasted 3.5 years WITHIN the last week.

I would like to interject here, and remind all who are involved in this discussion to restudy Zech. 4:11-14, being that of the JOINT ministry of John the Baptist and Jesus.
[14] Then said he, These are the two anointed ones, that stand by the LORD of the whole earth.

We are not looking at Jesus alone, but the other anointed "witness" of the two, who was John the Baptist, who ministered before God for 6 mos.
Apart from Jesus, who alone was concieved by the Holy Spirit of God, all should know that John however, is the only mortal human who was ever born with the Holy Spirit from his mother's womb.

Jesus' ministry in mortal flesh began on the day He was baptized, of which at that time, He was infilled and enjoined by the Holy Spirit of God, as witnessed by all who were present.

Therefore, the 1260 days are counted as such:
John- 6 mos.
Jesus- 3 years

 

[Davidpt]

So you don't care if you offend someone, and you are questioning if I'm a Christian? You shouldn't assume the worst in people.

Having a different interpretation about nonessential scripture doesn't give you the right to question if I am a Christian or not.

Many Christians agree with my view and have even written books about it context, history and the audience of who books of the bible are written to help reveal the truth .

See post #47 for your answered questions.

I didn't say you weren't a Christian. I said anyone that claims that label should not be interpreting the 70 weeks in the same manner unbelieving Jews might. It doesn't look good.

This is basically what we have here. Let's call one side A) the other side B).

Side A) includes Marty, plus professed Christians that agree with his view, plus all unbelieving Jews past, present, and future.

Side B) consists of all other professed Christians.

Side A) is arguing that the 70 weeks don't involve Christ. Side B) is arguing that the 70 weeks do involve Christ. And the way we settle this dispute is simple, right, Marty? The side that sides with all unbelieving Jews is the side that is interpreting the 70 weeks correctly. After all, how can unbelieving Jews possibly be wrong about anything, right?

 

[grafted branch]

I would like to interject here, and remind all who are involved in this discussion to restudy Zech. 4:11-14, being that of the JOINT ministry of John the Baptist and Jesus.
[14] Then said he, These are the two anointed ones, that stand by the LORD of the whole earth.

We are not looking at Jesus alone, but the other anointed "witness" of the two, who was John the Baptist, who ministered before God for 6 mos.
Apart from Jesus, who alone was concieved by the Holy Spirit of God, all should know that John however, is the only mortal human who was ever born with the Holy Spirit from his mother's womb.

Jesus' ministry in mortal flesh began on the day He was baptized, of which at that time, He was infilled and enjoined by the Holy Spirit of God, as witnessed by all who were present.

Therefore, the 1260 days are counted as such:
John- 6 mos.
Jesus- 3 years

I agree with you on this, only that I think Jesus’ ministry started after John was put in prison.

Matthew 4:12Now when Jesus had heard that John was cast into prison, he departed into Galilee; … 17From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.